AutoWake questions

[euro2012]

2018 Supra SL here. Has anyone noticed on the amplitude bar that as it goes up, the numbers move up with it, so it always looks like it is at 0 even though the bar is getting filled. Does that make sense?

[goose]

Hey guys! I have been emailing several different people and I have realized that maybe we didn't do the best job at explaining displacement / amplitude bar / and wake size expectations. I have shared this with a few of you, but thought the entire group could benefit or learn from this explanation. As I have said many times in the past, in surfing there is one critical rule and that is there is NO replacement for displacement. AutoWake adjusts ballast and helps you move passengers to achieve proper pitch and roll, but that is only 2 of the 3 critical variables. Pitch and Roll define shape, and shape is very important, but NOTHING is more important that displacement. That is why for 2018 we have the new (recently patented!) amplitude bar. I have slightly modified the amplitude bar and I think this might help some of you understand better how displacement works. Here is the bar...

2018 draft sensor amplitude explained.jpg

Every model is different but lets take a Craz for example. On the 2018 Craz, the boat has a ballast capacity of 3,000lbs. The boat also has capacity for an additional 2,400lbs of passengers/gear. So, the overall capacity of displacement (legally) is 5,400lbs. Let's break that down into the sections that are shown on this bar graph. The lower third would be approximately 0-1800lbs of displacement. The middle third would be approximately 1801-3600lbs of displacement. The Upper third would be approximately 3601-5400lbs. These sections should allow you to set your expectations on wake size. Think of it like small, medium, or large. Or maybe even like ski, board, surf. This doesn't apply to everyone as some people can surf a small wave or ski a large wake, but for the majority of people looking to have a "decent" size surf wave, you should really get your displacement in the upper third of displacement. PLUS, the larger the rider, the higher up the displacement needs to be. The smaller the board, the higher up the displacement needs to be. And the opposite is true, if you are a smaller rider, then you can get away with less displacement, or if you have a larger board, then again you can get away with less displacement. And this same theory holds true for smaller boats. Like in the case of the Mondo. That boat has a total capacity of 4300lbs. Using same logic, because of the smaller hull and running surface, you can actually run less overall displacement, but you still need to be in the upper third. So, in that boat, you really need to be in the 3,000lb displacement range at least.

I think many people lost track of displacement and only thought about pitch and roll. But displacement is the real key and if you let it, AutoWake can TEACH you how to optimize passenger location to achieve max displacement AND get the correct pitch and roll. As some have explained before, a good way to do that is watch how AutoWake adjusts ballast for you. If AutoWake drains weight in the front, then move weight to the rear. If AutoWake drains weight on the port side, then move weight to starboard. The basic rule of thumb is ALWAYS move passengers to the area of the boat where ballast is 100% full. AND that includes moving weight front or back. Once you learn how to do that, then AutoWake will make sure you have exactly the correct pitch and roll AND it will help you optimize passenger location to get 100% max displacement. What you will find is the lower you are on the displacement amplitude scale, the more critical optimizing passenger location will be. If you are running a potential of 6,000lbs of ballast/lead/passengers, then optimizing passenger location is NOT as critical since you are very high on the amplitude bar. But if you are running in that middle section of amplitude and you are trying to optimize the best wave you can that day, I highly recommend letting AutoWake help you get 100% of your potential you can.

One last comment I want to address is I have heard many people say they prefer to manually adjust and don't use AutoWake. To those people, if you are getting good performance, then I say go for it and have fun. But this would be my suggestion... If you are comfortable moving passengers then why wouldn't you let AutoWake help recommend where to put those passengers? If you are filling all ballast to 100%, then moving passengers to get the wave correct (getting correct pitch and roll), then why not check your pitch and roll and mentally make a note of those values. I would make a bet that if you did that over and over, you would find that when you get the wave "correct" you are probably duplicating the same pitch and roll each time. AND, I would bet that if you let AutoWake help you do that, you would find the wave to be even MORE consistent then manually doing the trial and error method of slightly moving one person at a time. But, again, we know that AutoWake is not for everyone. And if you are having a great time on your boat and spending time with your family, then that is really all that matters. Sorry I got long winded on this one, just thought these tid bits of info might help some of you as you keep learning more about AutoWake this summer!! Have a safe and fun time out there!!

[moombahighrider]

Hey guys! I have been emailing several different people and I have realized that maybe we didn't do the best job at explaining displacement / amplitude bar / and wake size expectations. I have shared this with a few of you, but thought the entire group could benefit or learn from this explanation. As I have said many times in the past, in surfing there is one critical rule and that is there is NO replacement for displacement. AutoWake adjusts ballast and helps you move passengers to achieve proper pitch and roll, but that is only 2 of the 3 critical variables. Pitch and Roll define shape, and shape is very important, but NOTHING is more important that displacement. That is why for 2018 we have the new (recently patented!) amplitude bar. I have slightly modified the amplitude bar and I think this might help some of you understand better how displacement works. Here is the bar...

2018 draft sensor amplitude explained.jpg

Every model is different but lets take a Craz for example. On the 2018 Craz, the boat has a ballast capacity of 3,000lbs. The boat also has capacity for an additional 2,400lbs of passengers/gear. So, the overall capacity of displacement (legally) is 5,400lbs. Let's break that down into the sections that are shown on this bar graph. The lower third would be approximately 0-1800lbs of displacement. The middle third would be approximately 1801-3600lbs of displacement. The Upper third would be approximately 3601-5400lbs. These sections should allow you to set your expectations on wake size. Think of it like small, medium, or large. Or maybe even like ski, board, surf. This doesn't apply to everyone as some people can surf a small wave or ski a large wake, but for the majority of people looking to have a "decent" size surf wave, you should really get your displacement in the upper third of displacement. PLUS, the larger the rider, the higher up the displacement needs to be. The smaller the board, the higher up the displacement needs to be. And the opposite is true, if you are a smaller rider, then you can get away with less displacement, or if you have a larger board, then again you can get away with less displacement. And this same theory holds true for smaller boats. Like in the case of the Mondo. That boat has a total capacity of 4300lbs. Using same logic, because of the smaller hull and running surface, you can actually run less overall displacement, but you still need to be in the upper third. So, in that boat, you really need to be in the 3,000lb displacement range at least.

I think many people lost track of displacement and only thought about pitch and roll. But displacement is the real key and if you let it, AutoWake can TEACH you how to optimize passenger location to achieve max displacement AND get the correct pitch and roll. As some have explained before, a good way to do that is watch how AutoWake adjusts ballast for you. If AutoWake drains weight in the front, then move weight to the rear. If AutoWake drains weight on the port side, then move weight to starboard. The basic rule of thumb is ALWAYS move passengers to the area of the boat where ballast is 100% full. AND that includes moving weight front or back. Once you learn how to do that, then AutoWake will make sure you have exactly the correct pitch and roll AND it will help you optimize passenger location to get 100% max displacement. What you will find is the lower you are on the displacement amplitude scale, the more critical optimizing passenger location will be. If you are running a potential of 6,000lbs of ballast/lead/passengers, then optimizing passenger location is NOT as critical since you are very high on the amplitude bar. But if you are running in that middle section of amplitude and you are trying to optimize the best wave you can that day, I highly recommend letting AutoWake help you get 100% of your potential you can.

One last comment I want to address is I have heard many people say they prefer to manually adjust and don't use AutoWake. To those people, if you are getting good performance, then I say go for it and have fun. But this would be my suggestion... If you are comfortable moving passengers then why wouldn't you let AutoWake help recommend where to put those passengers? If you are filling all ballast to 100%, then moving passengers to get the wave correct (getting correct pitch and roll), then why not check your pitch and roll and mentally make a note of those values. I would make a bet that if you did that over and over, you would find that when you get the wave "correct" you are probably duplicating the same pitch and roll each time. AND, I would bet that if you let AutoWake help you do that, you would find the wave to be even MORE consistent then manually doing the trial and error method of slightly moving one person at a time. But, again, we know that AutoWake is not for everyone. And if you are having a great time on your boat and spending time with your family, then that is really all that matters. Sorry I got long winded on this one, just thought these tid bits of info might help some of you as you keep learning more about AutoWake this summer!! Have a safe and fun time out there!!

Goose, I am quoting you to get your attention on a different question. I saw this post of the moomba Facebook page. Is what he is saying accurate?

[LAwake]

Goose, I am quoting you to get your attention on a different question. I saw this post of the moomba Facebook page. Is what he is saying accurate?

I saw this same post today and it's the first I've ever heard of that.

[tkskiles]

My screw up. No minimum depth. Manufacturer thinks computer hickup. Sorry for the confusion.

Going to take the post down to avoid further confusion. Once again my apologies I’m still learning the system.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[korey]

I had what I think was a GPS hiccup this weekend that sounds a little like what you're talking about. Boat slowed down, then surged over set speed, then settled down and was fine for 6+ more hours of surfing...

[Idcatfan]

Matt,

I just became a new Moomba Max owner in July and my family and I are new to wakesurfing. I can’t thank you enough for the wisdom you’ve imparted in this thread, as it has helped me out immensely to understand the nuts and bolts of the system so that we can enjoy the sport.

Two questions I have though:

I understand that Autowake is a predictive technology. Therefore, as I’m filling my ballast while idling, are the numbers for pitch and roll that are displayed accurate for that particular time frame, or are the numbers shown extrapolated to the software’s estimation of where you will be once at speed?

Also, is there harm in filling or draining the ballasts while at speed? If so, is there a set speed not to violate while doing so?

Thanks again. I have re-read your tips multiple times and also watched your interview w/ Robert. I feel MUCH more confident now out on the lake dialing in a surf wave! As a matter of fact, you guys should think about putting this info (and other explanations of functions of the boat) into a “new owner’s handbook”. This is the kind of info that can really help ensure an excellent experience for new owners, as dealers (and mine has been excellent) just don’t have the time or knowledge to do such deep dives into the working mechanics of the boat.

[goose]

I had what I think was a GPS hiccup this weekend that sounds a little like what you're talking about. Boat slowed down, then surged over set speed, then settled down and was fine for 6+ more hours of surfing...

Hey guys. On vacation but i will try and help. Fyi, the gps puck turns off with key switch. If you turn key on and immediately take off, the gps doesnt have time to lock in and when it does can create a surge or deceleration. I recommend you give it a little time to lock in before you take off. That should help.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[goose]

Matt,

I just became a new Moomba Max owner in July and my family and I are new to wakesurfing. I can’t thank you enough for the wisdom you’ve imparted in this thread, as it has helped me out immensely to understand the nuts and bolts of the system so that we can enjoy the sport.

Two questions I have though:

I understand that Autowake is a predictive technology. Therefore, as I’m filling my ballast while idling, are the numbers for pitch and roll that are displayed accurate for that particular time frame, or are the numbers shown extrapolated to the software’s estimation of where you will be once at speed?

Also, is there harm in filling or draining the ballasts while at speed? If so, is there a set speed not to violate while doing so?

Thanks again. I have re-read your tips multiple times and also watched your interview w/ Robert. I feel MUCH more confident now out on the lake dialing in a surf wave! As a matter of fact, you guys should think about putting this info (and other explanations of functions of the boat) into a “new owner’s handbook”. This is the kind of info that can really help ensure an excellent experience for new owners, as dealers (and mine has been excellent) just don’t have the time or knowledge to do such deep dives into the working mechanics of the boat.

Congrats on your Max. Hope you are loving your boat! To answer your questions, Autowake always displays actual pitch and roll. The numbers are constantly being filtered so there might be a slight delay as boat moves but the predictive state is all working behind the scene and doesnt display lookup table values (which again is patented technology...). So what you see is what the boat sees. As to speed filling, the ballast can fill sitting still or moving. We dont publish does and donts but filling at wide open throttle is not recommended. But filling at wakeboard speeds is fine and you can drain at any speed.

As fyi, the pumps definitely fill at different rates relative to boat voltage. So if you always fill at 14 volts running but drain at 12 volts sitting still, then you will need to adjust fill and drain times so that bags fill AND drain correctly. If you dont adjust timers then you could be under draining and overfilling which puts a LOT of pressure on ballast fittings and can lead to problems...

Hope you enjoy your boat.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Idcatfan]

Congrats on your Max. Hope you are loving your boat! To answer your questions, Autowake always displays actual pitch and roll. The numbers are constantly being filtered so there might be a slight delay as boat moves but the predictive state is all working behind the scene and doesnt display lookup table values (which again is patented technology...). So what you see is what the boat sees. As to speed filling, the ballast can fill sitting still or moving. We dont publish does and donts but filling at wide open throttle is not recommended. But filling at wakeboard speeds is fine and you can drain at any speed.

As fyi, the pumps definitely fill at different rates relative to boat voltage. So if you always fill at 14 volts running but drain at 12 volts sitting still, then you will need to adjust fill and drain times so that bags fill AND drain correctly. If you dont adjust timers then you could be under draining and overfilling which puts a LOT of pressure on ballast fittings and can lead to problems...

Hope you enjoy your boat.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Thanks Matt.

Regarding draining/filling, I have just relied on percentages on the display. When at 100%, I can hear the boat pissing out excess water. And when draining, I flick the switches when they read 0%. Is this not an accurate/sound metric to use?

Thanks again!