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  1. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mn
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    486

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    I rode in an Axis 22 a few years ago and I remember the bow rise, man, you just about had to stand to see forward. Do those boats have bow sacks?
    2020 Supra SL 400
    2015 Moomba Mojo(Sold)
    2018 Yamaha Waverunner(Just to fool around)
    2018 F150 Lariat
    sport edition, 3.5lt ecoboost

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    866

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaguel View Post
    I rode in an Axis 22 a few years ago and I remember the bow rise, man, you just about had to stand to see forward. Do those boats have bow sacks?
    They do have bow sacks if the dealer or end user puts it in. But even then, with the wedge, bow rise is huge!! I have to stand to see in a friends boat and fight the wheel the entire time, it isn't very much fun to drive.
    2018 Supra SA400 aka The Ron Burgandy
    2011 Sea-Doo Wake 155
    2015 Mojo Surf, sold...2013 Axis A22 Recon Edition, sold...2010 Axis A22, sold...2007 Maxum 180sr3, sold

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    20

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    I've always found it so fascinating that there is such a plethora of consumer friendly purchase resources for automobile buying available, but yet, it remains somewhat taboo to talk about boat pricing. A dealer won't sell you a boat unless it is advantageous to him/her in some regard. That could be creating floor space, profit, creating brand loyalty, future repair and service work, etc... I wish I knew exactly what people were buying their Moombas for. That would give me a leverage as a noob when trying to negotiate a fair deal with my dealer. I know that every deal is different, and what somewhat can negotiate in September in Tennessee on a purple and green boat has no bearing on what I can negotiate in Utah in May. Your good deal doesn't make you a great negotiator, it makes you a benefactor of good timing and circumstances. That being said, information is healthy and I wish everyone would be more transparent in what they paid before TTL. It would also be great to know what people are getting from the "pro shops" and extra bones getting tossed their way to seal the deal. If anything it gives a new buyer a little more confidence when they enter a showroom. For most, it's the second biggest purchase of their lives, and it can be intimidating.

    That being said.....I do have two perspectives.

    I hear time and time again, that the entry level brands have slim margins and therefore relatively low % discounts off list price. I also hear people say that seedealercost.com is a good tool to gauge dealer invoice and provide at least a baseline from which to start. Well, when I go to seedealercost and do the simple math, it appears that the entry level brands (Axis, Moomba,MC NXT, even MB) have virtually the same percentage mark ups as any other premium brand. The difference between list and invoice (according to seedealercost) on 2020 Moombas is 22%. Either the website is woefully inaccurate or the notion that entry level brands have razor thin margins is a dealer invented tool to maximize profits. Don't get me wrong, the dealer owns the boat and reserves the right to sell it for whatever they want, but either the margin is 22% (before freight, dealer prep, and doc fee mind you) or it isn't. I fully understand that a constant percent of less money equals less profit, so a dealer will make more money on a very high priced boat even if it has a lower percentile discount. Maybe it's just semantics, but I would prefer the dealer say "we just we need to make more money on this boat", then to act like the margins are different from the other boats they sell. The way they pitch it, they act like a 15% discount would be sold at a loss. It wouldn't. It would be at a 7% profit plus ancillary fees. Thats 7 grand on a 100k boat...with doc and prep...probably 8 grand. Is that enough profit when you only have 50 boats to sell in a year? Probably not, but as a buyer, it's at least worth knowing.

    The other thing I found interesting is that when I spoke to my Centurion dealer about a Supreme I am looking at, he mentioned that they did studies which indicate that the average customer who purchases a boat there, on average, ends up buying 2.7 boats from them throughout the course of their lives. I can almost guarantee you that boats 2 to 2.7 lol are a lot more expensive than boat 1. Like with pickups, people are fiercely brand loyal with boats and boat dealers. He didn't just want to sell me a Supreme. He wanted to sell me a Supreme, then a Centurion, then another Centurion with 30 of the bow cut off apparently . New, first time, buyers should always express interest in the premium lines as part of tactic in negotiating their entry level brand. Just my 2 cents.

    Anyway, sorry for the long first post. I'm quarantined for the second time in two months because of family members and I'm scared I'm going to be the first human to actually finish Netflix.
    Last edited by Guppydriver; 09-15-2020 at 01:06 PM.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppydriver View Post
    I've always found it so fascinating that there is such a plethora of consumer friendly purchase resources for automobile buying available, but yet, it remains somewhat taboo to talk about boat pricing. A dealer won't sell you a boat unless it is advantageous to him/her in some regard. That could be creating floor space, profit, creating brand loyalty, future repair and service work, etc... I wish I knew exactly what people were buying their Moombas for. That would give me a leverage as a noob when trying to negotiate a fair deal with my dealer. I know that every deal is different, and what somewhat can negotiate in September in Tennessee on a purple and green boat has no bearing on what I can negotiate in Utah in May. Your good deal doesn't make you a great negotiator, it makes you a benefactor of good timing and circumstances. That being said, information is healthy and I wish everyone would be more transparent in what they paid before TTL. It would also be great to know what people are getting from the "pro shops" and extra bones getting tossed their way to seal the deal. If anything it gives a new buyer a little more confidence when they enter a showroom. For most, it's the second biggest purchase of their lives, and it can be intimidating.

    That being said.....I do have two perspectives.

    I hear time and time again, that the entry level brands have slim margins and therefore relatively low % discounts off list price. I also hear people say that seedealercost.com is a good tool to gauge dealer invoice and provide at least a baseline from which to start. Well, when I go to seedealercost and do the simple math, it appears that the entry level brands (Axis, Moomba,MC NXT, even MB) have virtually the same percentage mark ups as any other premium brand. The difference between list and invoice (according to seedealercost) on 2020 Moombas is 22%. Either the website is woefully inaccurate or the notion that entry level brands have razor thin margins is a dealer invented tool to maximize profits. Don't get me wrong, the dealer owns the boat and reserves the right to sell it for whatever they want, but either the margin is 22% (before freight, dealer prep, and doc fee mind you) or it isn't. I fully understand that a constant percent of less money equals less profit, so a dealer will make more money on a very high priced boat even if it has a lower percentile discount. Maybe it's just semantics, but I would prefer the dealer say "we just we need to make more money on this boat", then to act like the margins are different from the other boats they sell. The way they pitch it, they act like a 15% discount would be sold at a loss. It wouldn't. It would be at a 7% profit plus ancillary fees. Thats 7 grand on a 100k boat...with doc and prep...probably 8 grand. Is that enough profit when you only have 50 boats to sell in a year? Probably not, but as a buyer, it's at least worth knowing.

    The other thing I found interesting is that when I spoke to my Centurion dealer about a Supreme I am looking at, he mentioned that they did studies which indicate that the average customer who purchases a boat there, on average, ends up buying 2.7 boats from them throughout the course of their lives. I can almost guarantee you that boats 2 to 2.7 lol are a lot more expensive than boat 1. Like with pickups, people are fiercely brand loyal with boats and boat dealers. He didn't just want to sell me a Supreme. He wanted to sell me a Supreme, then a Centurion, then another Centurion with 30 of the bow cut off apparently . New, first time, buyers should always express interest in the premium lines as part of tactic in negotiating their entry level brand. Just my 2 cents.

    Anyway, sorry for the long first post. I'm quarantined for the second time in two months because of family members and I'm scared I'm going to be the first human to actually finish Netflix.
    Just curious. How much profit do you think a dealer should make?

    6-7% seems to be the going discount on Moombas.

    The thing you may not realize is that Skierís Choice dealer network is territorial, everyone stays in their territory and wonít poach sales from another dealers territory.

    Also, SC only builds so many boats per year.

    Both of these facts makes the marketing model vastly different than automotive dealers. Auto dealers will sell to anyone and most cars and trucks have plenty of supply.

    At the end of the day, if you pass on what you feel is the dealer not giving you a big enough discount, there is another buyer who will buy it and think it is enough.

    The boat game is just different than automotive.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Supra SA 400
    Michigan

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    20

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry_arizona View Post
    Just curious. How much profit do you think a dealer should make?

    6-7% seems to be the going discount on Moombas.

    The thing you may not realize is that Skier’s Choice dealer network is territorial, everyone stays in their territory and won’t poach sales from another dealers territory.

    Also, SC only builds so many boats per year.

    Both of these facts makes the marketing model vastly different than automotive dealers. Auto dealers will sell to anyone and most cars and trucks have plenty of supply.

    At the end of the day, if you pass on what you feel is the dealer not giving you a big enough discount, there is another buyer who will buy it and think it is enough.

    The boat game is just different than automotive.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sure..great points. To answer your question...as much as they can, but certainly enough to make it beneficial as opposed to not selling the boat. I don't work for free and I surely don't expect the women and men at dealerships to either. Plus I want them to see me as a worthwhile investment when I come in with after sale issues. I wasn't complaining, just making an observation on the common theme about "margin" that I hear pertaining to entry level boats. I fully get that your per unit revenue has to be MUCH higher than an auto dealership which sells more units in a week than a boat dealership does in a year.

    Although the boat game is indeed different than the auto industry, I don't think it necessarily needs to be with regards to pricing transparency, that's all I'm saying. I'd trade away a million ridiculously inflated list prices to see one true invoice price that includes regional and seasonal incentives. That way I feel more comfortable negotiating up from that price, ensuring that I feel like I was treated with integrity, while also ensuring that my sales associate and dealership were properly compensated for their time and skillset.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,117

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    If you are shopping moomba, expect 6-8% off MSRP, negotiate your first 20 hour service as itís required and a $400-$600 bill, most dealers throw in ropes, anchor and life jacket kit. You probably can expect a 20% discount for a year on gear and boards if they have a pro shop.

    You should be able to get whatever boat show incentives for this year too, no idea if there will be any this year.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Supra SA 400
    Michigan

  7. #77
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,117

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    It really boils down to supply and demand. Boats are extremely hot right now, I recently read that boat loans are up 355% compared to 2019.

    Demand is sky high, Skierís choice has limited supply, build slots filling fast if you want to custom build, itís pretty awesome building your own boat that fits your family.

    I would say Malibu/Axis is your best bet for a deal because they have MUCH higher volume.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Supra SA 400
    Michigan

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    866

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    Part of the pricing and people being somewhat hush hush is that you're not negotiating and buying a honda civic, more like a Mercedes or bmw even for "budget" boats and upwards. See dealer cost is an ok tool, but it doesn't account for a lot of variables. In the end, don't "expect" a discount off msrp, but go in, build a relationship with your dealer and work a deal you feel comfortable with. 2021 build spots are filling fast, lower inventory drives higher demand and prices as well. Of course some people will get a "bro" deal, others will pay more, just as with anything else.
    2018 Supra SA400 aka The Ron Burgandy
    2011 Sea-Doo Wake 155
    2015 Mojo Surf, sold...2013 Axis A22 Recon Edition, sold...2010 Axis A22, sold...2007 Maxum 180sr3, sold

  9. #79

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    There is really zero transparency with regards to pricing...it really comes down to supply and demand. When the demand is low and dealers have boats sitting on their lots for months and months the prices drop. When boats are sold before they hit the lots or shortly thereafter then you pay MSRP or closer to it.

    There are "bro-deals" in the boating industry and how those "bro-deals" are ascertained is something that even after 10 years of boating I have yet to figure out completely. For example I have bought 3 boats, 1 Mojo, 1 Supra SA and 1 Supra SL from the same dealer. I have also sent at least 5 other people to them that have bought boats from them. I have purchased all of my pro shop boards, life jackets, One Wheels, etc from them and all servicing done there...you would think that I would get a "bro-deal" over a 1st-time buyer that has never stepped foot into the dealership before.
    2018 Supra SL550 with 850lbs of lead wake
    2017 Supra SA400 (Sold)
    2016 Moomba Mojo Surf Edition (Sold)
    2017 Ford F250 Super Duty(Sold)
    2019 Ford F250 Super Duty
    Soulcraft Vodoo
    Soulcraft Jordi Pro
    Phase Five Matrix

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Katy, TX
    Posts
    1,278

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prospersigman View Post
    There is really zero transparency with regards to pricing...it really comes down to supply and demand. When the demand is low and dealers have boats sitting on their lots for months and months the prices drop. When boats are sold before they hit the lots or shortly thereafter then you pay MSRP or closer to it.

    There are "bro-deals" in the boating industry and how those "bro-deals" are ascertained is something that even after 10 years of boating I have yet to figure out completely. For example I have bought 3 boats, 1 Mojo, 1 Supra SA and 1 Supra SL from the same dealer. I have also sent at least 5 other people to them that have bought boats from them. I have purchased all of my pro shop boards, life jackets, One Wheels, etc from them and all servicing done there...you would think that I would get a "bro-deal" over a 1st-time buyer that has never stepped foot into the dealership before.
    I could be totally off-base but I assumed the bro deal was for the guys that flip their boat every single year. Rance for example...

    Sent from my Note 9 using Tapatalk
    2017 Moomba Craz Surf Edition
    Flow 2.0 Surf System w/ AutoWakeô
    5,600 Lbs Ballast - Enzos + Lead + Sumo
    Wet Sounds REV10s + REVO12-XXX

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