Problems with GIII Upgrade (Pump Hose Connection & Through-Hulls)

[Hayden]

Quick follow up on this...

I talked to Wakemakers this morning and they said that because I'm in Canada and we're still seeing 0 degrees C (32F) overnight, that it's likely that I needed to give a few additional days for the adhesive they supply (Attwood) to setup. He commented that it should be rock/glass solid when it's done. Mine was still gel/tacky after +30 hours. He said if I only turned it a bit and there's not much movement/mess that I could just reseal with more but he said if did turn it a bunch and the silicone has bunched up, then I should pull it out, scrape and redo. He said they do get calls on this, and that it's the curing temperature that is the issue.

Edit: He also mentioned, you should not need two people - use one hand to grip the through-hull threads coming up and then use the other hand on a wrench to tighten down the nut. Don't need much strength on this and as soon as the threaded fitting is slipping in your grip hand, you're good.

With regards to the hose fitting, it sounds like it was a case of a novice installer (me) and that I just need to be more patient with the heat gun, get more even heating all the way around the hose to prevent one part of the hose from catching on the barb. He also mentioned that I shouldn't need any lubricant, (soap/spray/etc), and that heat gun is all that is required.

Stazi, Gmarkham, appreciate the comments, thanks. Back at it tomorrow night.

[bsharer]

Yes the heat gun, and a glove. Heat up the hose a tad longer than the barb length and be ready to put it on the fitting right away. It should go on easy about 1/4 or more of the way. Then grab the end of the hose and pull it up the barb with the gloved hand while you push the hose the rest of the way on with the other. If you just try to push the hose on the hose will collapse/deform because it will be so soft if you got it hot enough. If you don't heat it enough the inner support band will break and split the hose.

[MLA]

Im going to disagree with some above advise. 1 or 2 people id not so much the point, but you cannot effectively tighten down a ball valve to a thru-hull without properly holding the thru-hull. Holding it with your finger is not enough. Cured sealer, is not enough. You need to securely hold the thru-hull while tightening the ball-valve. best advice, do this all in one step while the sealer is fresh and uncured, not later.

Cold temps can slow the cure. However, what ever curing took place, has not been compromised when that thru-hull rotated. Take it out, start over. If you are working in temps that are outside of the products recommendations, do what you can to change environments. Temps not only slow/speed up curing, but they can effect the integrity once cured.

For your hose connections, yes, a heat gun helps, but rather then silicone spray, use a dab of your supplied below-waterline sealer smeared on the tip of the bard fitting. Breaks the friction of the hot hose on the plastic fitting but adds another layer of sealing.

[Hayden]

If you don't heat it enough the inner support band will break and split the hose.

This is very close to what was happening. The inner, white support wasn't breaking though, it wasn't getting heated enough (I think) and so wasn't bending, and was blocking as I tried to push it onto the pumps barb. Good tip on the gloves with pull and push, I bet that will do it.

Did wakemakers give you this? If so, you are good to go.

https://www.wakemakers.com/3m-4000-marine-adhesive.html

Wakemakers supplied me with Attwood silicone adhesive sealant. I'll see if I can get the 3M-4200.

Im going to disagree with some above advise. 1 or 2 people id not so much the point, but you cannot effectively tighten down a ball valve to a thru-hull without properly holding the thru-hull. Holding it with your finger is not enough. Cured sealer, is not enough. You need to securely hold the thru-hull while tightening the ball-valve. best advice, do this all in one step while the sealer is fresh and uncured, not later.

My sense from talking to the guy is that you shouldn't think of needing it to be really locked down to the hull the way you would with main supports for your tower, etc. He was saying that it's only about 3 psi of water pressure and locking down too much on the fiberglass could cause structural damage to it. He may have been trying to protect me from myself though if I've already overtightened once. I agree with what you're saying, and the through hull having those rails inside for that purpose seems like what was intended. Doing it right after you put the sealant on and using a tool to brace the through hull, (plus a wrench for the nut), is how I plan to do it....just not too tight.

[parrothd]

As otherwise have said you just need it snug, the 4200 makes the seal, not how tight it is. Just loosen it a tad and use your finger to smear a small amount of 4200 on the fitting then snug it back up and wait. I also put a small amount on the inside between the nut and hull to glue the nut in place. ��

[MLA]

Wakemakers supplied me with Attwood silicone adhesive sealant. I'll see if I can get the 3M-4200.

You dont necessarily need 3m 4200. Its just one of a dozen proper products that can be used. Instead, you need to see what the applications are of the product you already have. Is it for below waterline applications? Whats its setup and cure time? Are you working in its recommended temp range?

My sense from talking to the guy is that you shouldn't think of needing it to be really locked down to the hull the way you would with main supports for your tower, etc. He was saying that it's only about 3 psi of water pressure and locking down too much on the fiberglass could cause structural damage to it. He may have been trying to protect me from myself though if I've already overtightened once. I agree with what you're saying, and the through hull having those rails inside for that purpose seems like what was intended. Doing it right after you put the sealant on and using a tool to brace the through hull, (plus a wrench for the nut), is how I plan to do it....just not too tight.

The 3 PSI of water pressure is not what you need to be concerned with, but the flow rate of the lake water rushing in, if there is a failure. With that said, I highly doubt anyone is going to be able to tighten down a thru-hull's jam nut with enough force to damage the hull. Even with the proper thru-hull holding tool and wrench.

With that said. Unless im misunderstanding your thread, you had an issue with ball valve turning the thru-hull when you were tightening the ball valve to the thru-hull. To properly tighten the self-sealing tapered pipe thread ball valve to the thru-hull, you have to hold the thru-hull with more then the average hand. Hand tight ball valve is not enough. 3 PSI or not.

[parrothd]

Once it cures use a pipe wrench or locking pliers to grab and hold the lower threads while installing the ball valve. If you don't you'll break the seal and have to start over again. Make sure to it grab the lower threads, not where your putting the ball valve ..

Again, you don't need to get the ball valve super tight, just really snug with a wrench. I use a little dab of pipe dope on those threads, helps it go on easier and you don't have to over tighten it.

Sometimes you'll end up super tight depending on where you want the handle so plan ahead.. Lol.

[Hayden]

Everything went really well. Great tips and suggestions.

I was able to redo the thru-hulls and used locking pliers that had the lower jaw fit inside the thru-hull and the outer jaw on the outside threads. I used a folded rag to prevent the teeth from deforming the threads.

I found that there is a little finesse required with the warming of the hose. The heat gun I have has both a high and low setting, I found I couldn't use the high setting because it would heat too quickly, I had to use low setting and using gloves, you feel the end every 20sec or so and stop heating it right before it turns too flexible. I found I needed some rigidity in order to push it onto the barbs. Too hot/flexible and it would bunch up, too cold and it would catch on barbs. Definitely a "just right" amount of heat required.

Regardless it's done and once I got the technique, it was very simple. Wearing work gloves while doing hoses and using locking pliers on the thru-hull were a big help.