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Thread: 2022 Software

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    195

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    Hey guys! Glad to hear that this info helps. As an fyi, we are also doing an education campaign with our dealers as we speak on this software. In their defense, the technology that we are developing on this software is light years ahead of what most of the people in the industry are doing. Most of our competitors do NOT have many sensors or software that are this complicated. Most do not allow you to reprogram older boats with new software. And most competitors do NOT allow you to adjust anything in your software. Maybe we are doing it wrong and maybe it is too complicated, but we don't really follow the norm of most of our competitors. At Moomba we have always really only focused on us and I don't see that changing.

    As to the complexity of the software, I live and breathe this stuff, but for many dealers, this is just one of many thousands of things they have to keep up with and keep in mind that most dealers also carry multiple brands and type of boats. Unless the dealers really have dedicated sales men or technical experts on OUR brand, this information is pretty overwhelming and that is why some of you are getting the blank stares when you ask them about it. The truth is many people even in our own company also do not understand this stuff so that is why we are trying to help get everyone on the same page. It might take a while, but I ask that you be patient with our dealers and we will all get there eventually. Some maybe a little faster than others.

    Also keep in mind that the truth is the majority of people that follow this forum are really more like the "1 percenters" that really want to know EVERYTHING there is about their boat. That is why the majority of you follow this forum, ask questions and help each other. I would go out on a limp and say that a high percentage of the people that post on here are engineers or technically minded people that love getting into the "weeds" when it comes to details and love knowing how this stuff works. That is also why I am trying to educate you guys as early as possible. I have told many of you this before in private messages, but I look at you guys like our brand ambassadors on this forum and in the market. If 10 of you guys or girls really understand this about as good as I do, then we now have 11 people (10 + me for those not following, hehehe) that understand it and that helps everyone understand it better. Again, the truth is several of you really do know more about some of the technical sides of your boats better than some of our dealers. But again, maybe you can help them learn as well. Not sure if that makes sense, but I see this like the old "pyramid schemes" but instead of selling stuff, we are educating everyone. I teach several of you. You teach several more. And eventually everyone understands it.

    I guess to sum this one up it goes like this. I know some of you might be frustrated with some of the confusion from dealers or us. Can we load software, can we not? How come my dealer doesn't understand more about it? How come I am getting conflicting info. My request is please be patient. There is a lot of new info that has just recently been introduced. The world these days is stupid crazy. Our dealers are really struggling to get parts, take care of customers and deliver the boats that people have been waiting for all summer. I think the whole world needs a little break and more patience. But we will get through this. In the meantime, try and enjoy your family time on your boat. I will try to help with the software explanations. And it will get better. Or at least we all hope it does.... I should be posting the leak detection info shortly...

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Thank you for all you do! Hope I wasn't coming across as being impatient. We appreciate all that you (and SC) do for us!!!

    LOVE the new technology and that you are keeping us all on the cutting edge.





    Quote Originally Posted by goose View Post
    Hey guys! Glad to hear that this info helps. As an fyi, we are also doing an education campaign with our dealers as we speak on this software. In their defense, the technology that we are developing on this software is light years ahead of what most of the people in the industry are doing. Most of our competitors do NOT have many sensors or software that are this complicated. Most do not allow you to reprogram older boats with new software. And most competitors do NOT allow you to adjust anything in your software. Maybe we are doing it wrong and maybe it is too complicated, but we don't really follow the norm of most of our competitors. At Moomba we have always really only focused on us and I don't see that changing.

    As to the complexity of the software, I live and breathe this stuff, but for many dealers, this is just one of many thousands of things they have to keep up with and keep in mind that most dealers also carry multiple brands and type of boats. Unless the dealers really have dedicated sales men or technical experts on OUR brand, this information is pretty overwhelming and that is why some of you are getting the blank stares when you ask them about it. The truth is many people even in our own company also do not understand this stuff so that is why we are trying to help get everyone on the same page. It might take a while, but I ask that you be patient with our dealers and we will all get there eventually. Some maybe a little faster than others.

    Also keep in mind that the truth is the majority of people that follow this forum are really more like the "1 percenters" that really want to know EVERYTHING there is about their boat. That is why the majority of you follow this forum, ask questions and help each other. I would go out on a limp and say that a high percentage of the people that post on here are engineers or technically minded people that love getting into the "weeds" when it comes to details and love knowing how this stuff works. That is also why I am trying to educate you guys as early as possible. I have told many of you this before in private messages, but I look at you guys like our brand ambassadors on this forum and in the market. If 10 of you guys or girls really understand this about as good as I do, then we now have 11 people (10 + me for those not following, hehehe) that understand it and that helps everyone understand it better. Again, the truth is several of you really do know more about some of the technical sides of your boats better than some of our dealers. But again, maybe you can help them learn as well. Not sure if that makes sense, but I see this like the old "pyramid schemes" but instead of selling stuff, we are educating everyone. I teach several of you. You teach several more. And eventually everyone understands it.

    I guess to sum this one up it goes like this. I know some of you might be frustrated with some of the confusion from dealers or us. Can we load software, can we not? How come my dealer doesn't understand more about it? How come I am getting conflicting info. My request is please be patient. There is a lot of new info that has just recently been introduced. The world these days is stupid crazy. Our dealers are really struggling to get parts, take care of customers and deliver the boats that people have been waiting for all summer. I think the whole world needs a little break and more patience. But we will get through this. In the meantime, try and enjoy your family time on your boat. I will try to help with the software explanations. And it will get better. Or at least we all hope it does.... I should be posting the leak detection info shortly...
    2021 Mojo
    2018 MAX - sold - 250 hours, absolute awesome boat.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dank View Post
    Thank you for all you do! Hope I wasn't coming across as being impatient. We appreciate all that you (and SC) do for us!!!

    LOVE the new technology and that you are keeping us all on the cutting edge.
    Hey Dank! My post was not intended or directed to anyone specific and I did NOT think you were being impatient. And honestly I probably got on my soap box a little too much. Sometimes I have a problem of writing too much and maybe my Covid frustrations came out a little on my post. haha. So I apologize about that. Bottom line is we are trying to help everyone get on the same page. And in the mean time I will try to keep you guys posted on what all the new stuff is doing. As you can probably tell, we are pretty excited about it!
    Matt Brown
    Product Development Manager

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Random tips of the day – Leak detection

    Another new feature in the 2022 Moomba software is what we call “leak detection”. As the name implies, this feature is to help determine if possible leaks are happening in the ballast system. But it actually does more than that. Let me explain a little more how it works. All the 2022 Moomba models now have a full length tube style ballast sensor on the rear ballast compartments. The tube is located in the rear of the boat and as the ballast fills in the bag, the water level rises in the tube sensor. The sensor then can tell exactly how much water is in the bag. “Leak detection” is mainly focused on the “filling” side of the system. We will discuss “Autofill” later and that really focuses more on the keeping the level at the same spot. As the system fills, the “Leak detection” feature is looking at 2 things. We call it “threshold” and “trigger”. The “threshold” is the ballast gauge % where the sensor starts looking for the “trigger”. That probably sounds confusing, so let’s try the default settings. The default settings are “threshold” of 50 and “trigger” of 1. So, when the ballast timers reach 50% of the fill time, the sensor looks to make sure it sees 1% of water in the tube. If it sees water, then it continues to fill with no problem. If it doesn’t, then it sends a popup saying possible leak in the ballast system. The first question might be why is the threshold so high? On some models, the tube sensor is actually located about 8 inches higher than the bottom of the bag and on some models the bags are over 100 inches long. So, it takes quite a while for the water in the bag to reach the bottom of the sensor. Some models the sensor is at the bottom of the bag, but for default reasons we made it for worst case.

    Ok, that is how the software works. But lets dive into possible issues or times when you might see an “incorrect” leak detection warning. As I said, the software is actually looking at the percentage of the fill TIME. Unfortunately, even with all the sensors and logic, we still have to use timers for the ballast. As I said, some sensors are higher than the bag, some bags are not simple designs and have sections that raise higher than others, so just relying on the sensors would lead to very confusing ballast gauges. So, we use timers for the actual gauge number that is broadcast on the screen. A few years ago we introduced “ballast timer Autocalibration” so I will not discuss that here, but we are constantly working to try and get the timers accurate and we are constantly watching how you use your system and the timers automatically change based on that. However, if you reset the software and do not change the timers, then you will very likely get a leak detection warning on some models. The reason is because the default fill time on software reboot is 5 min 30 sec. Most models require closer to 7 minutes and if you happen to have a 3 pump system it might take over 10 minutes. So, if the boat really requires 3 minutes and 30 seconds before the sensor sees water, but your timers are set for 5 min 30 sec, then at 2 min 45 sec (50% of 5:30), it is likely that the sensor does not see water and will give the leak detection popup. In this case, if you just get your timers accurate, then that will probably correct the problem.

    Another time that you might get the popup is if your ballast pump impellors are showing wear. Again, if you had the software working properly the “ballast timer Autocalibration” should see the increase time needed and auto update your timers, but again, if you reload software and don’t get time right, then you could get popup. However, this might also be a good thing because if you get this popup quite a bit, then it might mean you do need to change your impellors or something is not working properly with the filling side of your system. Hence one of the reasons why we added this software. If you are seeing this case, you can also get with your dealer and on the development pages, you can actually watch this software logic work. You can see the timers AND the sensors at the same time. Watching that can help you understand better how your system is actually performing and can either help you adjust ballast timers or threshold points or trigger points. Again, if none of that makes sense, get with your dealer.

    Obviously another reason why you might get this popup is if you really do have a leak. While we have made big improvements on the bags and fittings, it is possible to have issues with bags or fittings. Again, if you had a leaking bag or fitting, then the sensor would not see water at the correct time in the sensor and you might get this popup. Again, if you do get this popup, simply check the bags and bilge area. If you have excess water, then you should investigate for possible leaks. If you don’t have water in the bilge, then check timers.

    The last issue you might have is if you are loading 2022 software on a boat that does not have tube style sensors in the rear. Some of the older models only had flow sensors. In that case, you would obviously not see water in the sensor because the sensor is not present. In that case, you would need to get your dealers help to access the development page and you would want to adjust your threshold to 100. If you did that, it should basically turn this logic off and you should not have the popup anymore.

    Ok, hope that helps. I am sure there is more to this logic, but I wanted to give you guys more info into how it works and why. We are also sharing this information again with our dealers so that hopefully if you do have questions, they have this same information and everyone can be on the same page.

    I will try and send the Autofill side before the weekend.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Can you tell us what year and models have the tube sensors vs. the flow? Would a 21 Kaiyen? I'm guessing it does based on how it currently operates and what the sensor looks like behind the panel in the lockers.
    Thanks
    2021 Kaiyen

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Posts
    656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goose View Post
    For 2022 ZeroOff is standard and the paddlewheel is optional. In the past, if you had ZeroOff then you still had paddlewheel as a backup if you lost GPS. However, without paddlewheel backup, we had to add logic in case you lost GPS.
    Hi Matt. First of all, thank you for providing detailed descriptions for all of us to benefit from. I'm eagerly awaiting the production of a '22 Mojo later this month (I'll actually be touring the factory on the 30th). It will be good to have all of this info as I dive into learning the new boat. One of your points gave me pause around the ZeroOff and paddle wheel. With the builder not yet updated and all of the changes 2021 to 2022 this is a little fuzzy. I submitted a build sheet to my dealer pre-2022 announcement and we'd selected the ZeroOff upgrade. In reading your note, is there an option to add the paddle wheel to ZeroOff for back up or is this a ZeroOff deduct?

    I've requested a detailed build sheet from my dealer in addition to a list of options I'm currently not getting just to make sure I'm not missing anything else. Already figured out that I needed to add on chill tech and the optional sound deadening (on top of what is standard). Not knocking anyone here but it would be nice to know what was available in a model year prior to having to place your order... I know demand is super high right now and dealers are already taking orders for 23's!
    2022 Moomba Mojo (On Order)
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5

    Tow - 2019 Ford F150 Ecoboost

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    2,234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uniwarking View Post

    Not knocking anyone here but it would be nice to know what was available in a model year prior to having to place your order... I know demand is super high right now and dealers are already taking orders for 23's!
    Your dealer did not know or show you want he selected in the computer?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Supra SL400

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Posts
    656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MJHSupra View Post
    Your dealer did not know or show you want he selected in the computer?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I got a detailed invoice when I put in a deposit which was before 2022 stuff was announced. I’ve asked for a few changes along the way as announcements came out (and even more as I learned from people on the forums, like the optional sound deadening). I’m just wanting to make sure I know what I’m getting and nothing was missed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2022 Moomba Mojo (On Order)
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5

    Tow - 2019 Ford F150 Ecoboost

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Hockley, Tx
    Posts
    792

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brad460 View Post
    Sorry- I came off a bit harsh there…my apologies.

    Anyways, in my experience bricking is the number one issue when reprogramming an HMI (which is what Skiers Choice mentioned above).
    No worries man. I am not sensitive I know we are all on here for the love of boats.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2019 Makai - Raptor 450

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Hockley, Tx
    Posts
    792

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goose View Post
    Random tips of the day – Leak detection

    Another new feature in the 2022 Moomba software is what we call “leak detection”. As the name implies, this feature is to help determine if possible leaks are happening in the ballast system. But it actually does more than that. Let me explain a little more how it works. All the 2022 Moomba models now have a full length tube style ballast sensor on the rear ballast compartments. The tube is located in the rear of the boat and as the ballast fills in the bag, the water level rises in the tube sensor. The sensor then can tell exactly how much water is in the bag. “Leak detection” is mainly focused on the “filling” side of the system. We will discuss “Autofill” later and that really focuses more on the keeping the level at the same spot. As the system fills, the “Leak detection” feature is looking at 2 things. We call it “threshold” and “trigger”. The “threshold” is the ballast gauge % where the sensor starts looking for the “trigger”. That probably sounds confusing, so let’s try the default settings. The default settings are “threshold” of 50 and “trigger” of 1. So, when the ballast timers reach 50% of the fill time, the sensor looks to make sure it sees 1% of water in the tube. If it sees water, then it continues to fill with no problem. If it doesn’t, then it sends a popup saying possible leak in the ballast system. The first question might be why is the threshold so high? On some models, the tube sensor is actually located about 8 inches higher than the bottom of the bag and on some models the bags are over 100 inches long. So, it takes quite a while for the water in the bag to reach the bottom of the sensor. Some models the sensor is at the bottom of the bag, but for default reasons we made it for worst case.

    Ok, that is how the software works. But lets dive into possible issues or times when you might see an “incorrect” leak detection warning. As I said, the software is actually looking at the percentage of the fill TIME. Unfortunately, even with all the sensors and logic, we still have to use timers for the ballast. As I said, some sensors are higher than the bag, some bags are not simple designs and have sections that raise higher than others, so just relying on the sensors would lead to very confusing ballast gauges. So, we use timers for the actual gauge number that is broadcast on the screen. A few years ago we introduced “ballast timer Autocalibration” so I will not discuss that here, but we are constantly working to try and get the timers accurate and we are constantly watching how you use your system and the timers automatically change based on that. However, if you reset the software and do not change the timers, then you will very likely get a leak detection warning on some models. The reason is because the default fill time on software reboot is 5 min 30 sec. Most models require closer to 7 minutes and if you happen to have a 3 pump system it might take over 10 minutes. So, if the boat really requires 3 minutes and 30 seconds before the sensor sees water, but your timers are set for 5 min 30 sec, then at 2 min 45 sec (50% of 5:30), it is likely that the sensor does not see water and will give the leak detection popup. In this case, if you just get your timers accurate, then that will probably correct the problem.

    Another time that you might get the popup is if your ballast pump impellors are showing wear. Again, if you had the software working properly the “ballast timer Autocalibration” should see the increase time needed and auto update your timers, but again, if you reload software and don’t get time right, then you could get popup. However, this might also be a good thing because if you get this popup quite a bit, then it might mean you do need to change your impellors or something is not working properly with the filling side of your system. Hence one of the reasons why we added this software. If you are seeing this case, you can also get with your dealer and on the development pages, you can actually watch this software logic work. You can see the timers AND the sensors at the same time. Watching that can help you understand better how your system is actually performing and can either help you adjust ballast timers or threshold points or trigger points. Again, if none of that makes sense, get with your dealer.

    Obviously another reason why you might get this popup is if you really do have a leak. While we have made big improvements on the bags and fittings, it is possible to have issues with bags or fittings. Again, if you had a leaking bag or fitting, then the sensor would not see water at the correct time in the sensor and you might get this popup. Again, if you do get this popup, simply check the bags and bilge area. If you have excess water, then you should investigate for possible leaks. If you don’t have water in the bilge, then check timers.

    The last issue you might have is if you are loading 2022 software on a boat that does not have tube style sensors in the rear. Some of the older models only had flow sensors. In that case, you would obviously not see water in the sensor because the sensor is not present. In that case, you would need to get your dealers help to access the development page and you would want to adjust your threshold to 100. If you did that, it should basically turn this logic off and you should not have the popup anymore.

    Ok, hope that helps. I am sure there is more to this logic, but I wanted to give you guys more info into how it works and why. We are also sharing this information again with our dealers so that hopefully if you do have questions, they have this same information and everyone can be on the same page.

    I will try and send the Autofill side before the weekend.
    Glad to have all the technical info Matt, Thanks!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2019 Makai - Raptor 450

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