thanks to all!!! i got him up today, and one of the best tricks was just letting the board push his knees to his rear end. When i learned it was always push down with your heels but he doesn't have that kind of strength especially on a 4' 11" adult board. Just told him to let the board collapse his legs and keep his arms straight. He got up and out.. now we have to work on riding which is a whole nuther thing.. I did order him a liquid force Gromi which should work a lot better for him. Its a kids board at 3'11". thanks for the help