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  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Posts
    100

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota4ce View Post
    2500 lead, full ballast and any crew and she won’t get up to speed to find out. Unless you swapped out a 575.....


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    At the risk of sounding really old and being a giant buzz kill...

    It all depends on what you’re trying to do, and what equipment you have. What I mean by that is, all weight is good weight when building a wave. But what engine and transmission do you have and what prop is it spinning?

    For example we use the Makai for wakesurfing, wakeboarding, and trips across the lake for dinner. I only run 400 pounds of lead. I have the wakemakers upgrade bags in the rear lockers and a 800# fatsac for the floor. 100% loaded up with my family of 6 and the surf wave is great, but the motor is definitely working! To wakeboard I empty the floor bag and run everything else at 40% which produces a wake big enough to scare this old man.

    I can drop all the water and cruise across the lake for nachos and miller lite (cuz I’m classy like that).

    But that’s just me. You situation maybe wildly different. Maybe you never Cruz and want to “prop it, and drop it” and never get above 11mph! Or heaven forbid you never fill the ballast and just drag tubes all day! Either way it will require a personalized approach to weight(lead and water) and prop.

    I got a lot of help from “Dakota4ce” and my dealer. I’ll try to post a few pictures when I get home.
    -Blaine

    2019 Makai
    2013 LSV (sold)
    1997 Bayliner 1850 (sold)

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,005

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    Good post! My experience is similar, and I would say running 1200 lead constantly is at the top end of tolerable. It uses more gas, and handles a bit sluggishly with all that extra weight.

    Tossing 1700 in is sure fun for a surf, but the motor is cranking and drinking the gas.


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  3. #53

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    No need to sound like a buzz kill. I just like to have an idea on a few set ups to cut down on the experimentation time. I have been surfing for near 15 years in boats not meant for surfing and got used to slamming them. Even surfed behind direct drives back in college when on a club ski team before surfing was really a 'thing'.

    We routinely added 2500-3500 lbs on top of ballast in 21 and 23 foot boats just to get a decent list before surf systems were available, and this was with old Monsoon 320 engines. Didn't really have any problems getting up to surf speed if you understood the prop and weight distribution.

    Once we purchased a 'suck gate' we were able to remove 1000 lbs of ballast and still got a larger better wave. Of course that weight distribution changed from listed to evenly weighted with a large bias to the rear of the boat, but the wave was larger and the engine worked less.

    With this boat we will explore all of the factory settings and full ballast. But I will also be adding the suck gate to the side of it to compare. Just like there is no substitution for displacement, I think 'yaw' gets overlooked in favor of roll. Those suck gates do a great job of adding yaw without the upward lift of an asymmetrical surf tab. Also those suck gates are adjustable to different boat draft levels which most factory systems seem to lack.

    You have to think of your boat like a plow or shovel. The deeper I can sink the rear the larger area of water you can move as long as you have the power to move the boat. I actually think downward surf tabs work against you in a surf situation once you get adequate yaw. I am exciting to try all these out, just looking for a few starting points.
    '05 XLV with '11 hull

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,005

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    Sounds like you have it all figured out! Enjoy the process.


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  5. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    1,240

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyg06 View Post

    With this boat we will explore all of the factory settings and full ballast. But I will also be adding the suck gate to the side of it to compare. Just like there is no substitution for displacement, I think 'yaw' gets overlooked in favor of roll. Those suck gates do a great job of adding yaw without the upward lift of an asymmetrical surf tab. Also those suck gates are adjustable to different boat draft levels which most factory systems seem to lack.
    I agree. If you are on Facebook, please post this with a suck gate. I'd love to see the reaction when the general consensus of modern surf systems and suck gates theory collide . . . . . ha ha.
    2007 Supra SSV 22'

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJHSupra View Post
    I agree. If you are on Facebook, please post this with a suck gate. I'd love to see the reaction when the general consensus of modern surf systems and suck gates theory collide . . . . . ha ha.

    I am on facebook, but not sure which page you think I should post to. If you send that link I would be happy to do that.

    In my mind surf systems are the evolution of suck gates, which are the evolution from over weighted listed ski boats. It is all about manipulating hull orientation to produce a compressed wave.

    The nice thing about the Makai is it has a perfect spot at the rear of the hull for suck gate placement.

    I am thinking a 10/0 suck gate wave would easily compete with a 9/3 surf system wave.

    You have me thinking.... Before we empty the old XLV I am going to download one of those iphone level apps to get the 'autowake' numbers for it. It would be very interesting to find out what I was running to produce a nice surf wave and compare it to a decade newer boat to see how much things have changed.... I wouldn't be surprised to find out very little has changed in wave theory.
    '05 XLV with '11 hull

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,005

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    Suck gate + Flow tabs is not better. At all.

    BUT: my definition of better may differ from yours. (Legal disclaimer).

    Flat, weak, ruined. Suck gate alone minus flow makes a nice wave, but far inferior to flow wave. But again, my findings in an isolated environment up here in little old Iowa.

    Used a Nauticurl.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota4ce View Post
    Suck gate + Flow tabs is not better. At all.

    BUT: my definition of better may differ from yours. (Legal disclaimer).

    Flat, weak, ruined. Suck gate alone minus flow makes a nice wave, but far inferior to flow wave. But again, my findings in an isolated environment up here in little old Iowa.

    Used a Nauticurl.
    Interesting observations and I am not doubting you. The Nautique system seems to be a suck gate plus flow tabs built into one system as they seem to deploy at a 45 degree angle off that bottom corner of the boat. I have been in a couple of different G23s (2016 and 2018 year models) and I was very unimpressed by the wave in either model, from a surf point of view. Not sure if this is due to that combination or just a lack of added weight by the 2 owners.
    '05 XLV with '11 hull

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    674

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyg06 View Post
    Interesting observations and I am not doubting you. The Nautique system seems to be a suck gate plus flow tabs built into one system as they seem to deploy at a 45 degree angle off that bottom corner of the boat. I have been in a couple of different G23s (2016 and 2018 year models) and I was very unimpressed by the wave in either model, from a surf point of view. Not sure if this is due to that combination or just a lack of added weight by the 2 owners.
    Nautique deploys a small plate 90° to the boat. The wave on a 2019 G23 was great, and extremely tunable.

    I have essentially a GSA system on my Mondo, and #1, combining the tabs and suckgate ruins the wave; and #2 there honestly is not a huge difference in wave if the placement of the suckgate is optimal vs tuning the GSA wave to the best possible. Yes, I tried them back to back and together one day, out of curiosity.
    2014 Moomba Mondo

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,005

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebox View Post
    Nautique deploys a small plate 90° to the boat. The wave on a 2019 G23 was great, and extremely tunable.

    I have essentially a GSA system on my Mondo, and #1, combining the tabs and suckgate ruins the wave; and #2 there honestly is not a huge difference in wave if the placement of the suckgate is optimal vs tuning the GSA wave to the best possible. Yes, I tried them back to back and together one day, out of curiosity.
    Difference being: tabs have no upper weight limit. Suck gates seem to.


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