AutoWake questions

[stevemarich]

And I was under the impression Jacobs ballast puppy pump rate is 88 lbs per minute , per its specification , the ballast king is 120 lbs , at 88lbs a minute you would need a min of 13.6 for 1200 lbs, 12.9 for 1140, but that's just going off the pumps specification and that is about the range we are at , except for the front , so didn't really think we had a problem ,just want to integrate another 300 lbs in for the rear with would put fill times at 16.3

[goose]

This is interesting, as my dealer specifically advised never to run on both, always choose 1 or 2.

Edit: My bags seem to fill fine at the preset times. I always fill with boat on, idling forward.

Well, the battery switch and recommended switch location has been a point of controversy over the years and internally we probably all don't see it the same way. The most conservative approach is to recommend the consumer leave the switch in the 1 or 2 position. IF you do that, and IF you charge your batteries often, then IF you were to be sitting on the lake all day listening to the stereo and the battery went dead, then you could theoretically switch it to the other battery, start your engine and go merrily on your way.

However, what I have found is most consumers do NOT charge their batteries often. And many consumers leave the switch in 1 position forever, never turning it off. If you leave the switch in the 1 position, then you would never be charging the 2nd battery as the alternator is completely separated from the 2nd battery. If you left it that all way all season without charging it, it is likely that if you ever did need the 2nd battery, it might be dead. In addition to that, running the engine and all accessories off 1 battery only will draw that battery down very quickly. Then discharging and charging that one battery often will then make that battery fail prematurely. Worst case is you end up having 1 battery that dies premature or doesn't hold a change very long, only to find out the other battery is also dead from not being charged.

That is why I personally always run my battery switch in both and charge often. One of the highest premature failures of deep cycle batteries is not charging them often enough or leaving them in a lower voltage situation for long times. In addition to that as I said before, if you are in the both position, then you have a true dual battery bank and it will not draw down your voltage near as quick when running ballast or stereo. In addition to that, the alternator will always be charging BOTH batteries when switch is in both. Granted, it can charge one battery at a time faster than 2, but I currently trailer my boat and I almost always end up having a decent run back to the dock at the end of the day when I am finished. Running the boat at a higher RPM increases the alternator output and seems to do a decent job of recharging the batteries. And like I said, we try and plug up the R&D boats very regularly which again tops off the charge to the batteries.

As a side note, I personally think some of the low voltage codes seen in some of the newer boats are also because most people are running the battery switch in 1 position and not charging the batteries enough. If you were to fill the ballast for 15 minutes, while listening to the stereo with key off, I could definitely see the one battery getting into the 11 volts or less range. That is when we start seeing "low voltage" and this amplifies the possibility of seeing the O2 sensor codes when you start back up. That is another reason we changed the 2018 ballast to only filling when the engine is running. While some people may not like it, with the 6 pumps running, it can drain the battery fairly quickly, especially with the battery in 1 position and key off. IF you do decide to run with the battery switch in "both" but want to sit and listen to the stereo for long times, then you can still move the switch to 1 battery only while you are sitting there. If you did that, then you would probably have a good backup battery if you run the 1 battery dead. Just remember to switch it back to both after you get started and then recharge the battery when you get home.

Hope that makes sense. Sorry about change in topic, but thought it might be helpful as some of you might want to try running the battery in the "both" switch and I hope that everyone will try and charge the batteries more often. Trust me, it will help!

[goose]

And I was under the impression Jacobs ballast puppy pump rate is 88 lbs per minute , per its specification , the ballast king is 120 lbs , at 88lbs a minute you would need a min of 13.6 for 1200 lbs, 12.9 for 1140, but that's just going off the pumps specification and that is about the range we are at , except for the front , so didn't really think we had a problem ,just want to integrate another 300 lbs in for the rear with would put fill times at 16.3

Steve, you are right. The truth is specifications are not all the same. You can look some places and it says 9 gal/min, some say 88lbs/min but they usually aren't really clear at what voltage they are measuring that at. Some say 12 volts, but some companies take 12.0 as 12 volts and some say 12.5 or 12.8 as 12 volts. It really does make a huge difference at what true voltage the pump is running at. And it is not linear. Try filling the pumps sometime with the key off, then turn key on and rev the engine. You will hear a huge difference in the sound of the pump. At 13 volts and higher, that pump really cranks some water. In addition, as some have said, there is WAY more hose and pressure in the front and filling a bag by venting the tank does take longer. So, you are correct, it probably should take about 13.5 minutes to fill the 1200lbs most of the time. You probably don't have a problem with the impellors if you are taking slightly longer filling it with key off.

And I think we can probably add another minute and a half or 2 minutes to the timers. Just don't tell my boss.... hahaha

[stevemarich]

Steve, you are right. The truth is specifications are not all the same. You can look some places and it says 9 gal/min, some say 88lbs/min but they usually aren't really clear at what voltage they are measuring that at. Some say 12 volts, but some companies take 12.0 as 12 volts and some say 12.5 or 12.8 as 12 volts. It really does make a huge difference at what true voltage the pump is running at. And it is not linear. Try filling the pumps sometime with the key off, then turn key on and rev the engine. You will hear a huge difference in the sound of the pump. At 13 volts and higher, that pump really cranks some water. In addition, as some have said, there is WAY more hose and pressure in the front and filling a bag by venting the tank does take longer. So, you are correct, it probably should take about 13.5 minutes to fill the 1200lbs most of the time. You probably don't have a problem with the impellors if you are taking slightly longer filling it with key off.

And I think we can probably add another minute and a half or 2 minutes to the timers. Just don't tell my boss.... hahaha

Right on , thanks Matt , not trying to hijack the thread of or create more work load for you, my last boat I used the battery switch same as you posted, didn't have a dual bank charger so needed the boat to keep them both charged anyway, but when seeing in the manual that it said not to run in both for this boat, just stared using 1 main and 2 as a back up , I trailer every outing and plug in the handy factory dual bank charger when boat isn't in use to keep them topped off, but it is good to know that we could run the switch in the both position. Thanks again for your input.

[TJG]

Well, the battery switch . . . .

Got it! For my situation, I think I'll switch to both and see how it goes. The boat stays on a lift, and the lake is less than 200 acres, so if something were to happen, it wouldn't take long till we float to shore or yell to someone to tow us in! I do like the idea of charging both batteries via the alternator. I currently switch back and forth, turning it to OFF after every outing.

[rdlangston13]

So my 17 Mojo I have had the port surf issue happen once last week at Table Rock. We all surf starboard so that is probably why we have never seen it until now. I think we want to upgrade to the autowake 2.0 so we will probably not worry about reflashing our current software.

As far as ballast timers go, we have the tank and bow bag and we need every bit of 15 minutes to fill it. The 900s in the rear I think we had to set at about 12-13 minutes or so and we usually always fill with the engine idling. We also plug into a shore charger every time the boat is put away and we run the stock starting battery on switch position 1 and 2 6V golf cart batteries wired in series on switch position two. Interesting thing we just discovered about our batteries is that if you run on bank 1, shut down, swap to bank 2, the initial start up takes 5-6 seconds to fire the boat up. Cranking speed is normal, it just doesn't fire. It is also true for the opposite, if we run on bank 2 and shut down the swap to bank 1 it does the same thing. It's only on the initial start when swapping battery banks. All starts after that on the same bank are normal until you swap to the other bank again. Has me totally confused.


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[kennc]

Nevermind. I typed and posted before reading the rest of the thread.

Question answered.

Sorry.

This is interesting, as my dealer specifically advised never to run on both, always choose 1 or 2.

Edit: My bags seem to fill fine at the preset times. I always fill with boat on, idling forward.

I am curious about this also (battery switch setting). My salesman recommended both (setting 1 and 2). I read the manual, re-read the manual and then read it a third time to confirm it specifically says use setting 1 only and always.

It talks about a redundancy configuration so you don't get stranded.

Clarification would be great for this non-engineer.

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[goose]

So my 17 Mojo I have had the port surf issue happen once last week at Table Rock. We all surf starboard so that is probably why we have never seen it until now. I think we want to upgrade to the autowake 2.0 so we will probably not worry about reflashing our current software.

As far as ballast timers go, we have the tank and bow bag and we need every bit of 15 minutes to fill it. The 900s in the rear I think we had to set at about 12-13 minutes or so and we usually always fill with the engine idling. We also plug into a shore charger every time the boat is put away and we run the stock starting battery on switch position 1 and 2 6V golf cart batteries wired in series on switch position two. Interesting thing we just discovered about our batteries is that if you run on bank 1, shut down, swap to bank 2, the initial start up takes 5-6 seconds to fire the boat up. Cranking speed is normal, it just doesn't fire. It is also true for the opposite, if we run on bank 2 and shut down the swap to bank 1 it does the same thing. It's only on the initial start when swapping battery banks. All starts after that on the same bank are normal until you swap to the other bank again. Has me totally confused.


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On this issue, I really don't have a clue. Like I said, I am not an electrical engineer, so I am not sure what is going on and I have personally never used 2 6V batteries like this so that is a little different. What I do know is we don't recommend that you ever turn the battery switch off when the key is on. If that is what you are doing, then that could be the problem. Also, every time you turn battery switch to off, it puts the screen basically in sleep mode and requires the normal full boot up time. Not sure if that is what you are talking about either. If you are having an issue with the boat cranking but not firing, then I am thinking maybe that is a completely different issue like the fuel pump or something else. Have you tried to turn key on, wait a few seconds and then crank? I will keep digging and see if I have heard of anything similar to this with our customer service people. Sorry about that. If it is only happening on initial start then that is definitely interesting and I would love to figure out what is going on. Thanks for feedback.

[goose]

So, I did ask around a little and the only thing I can come up with is if you are seeing an initial lag where the engine is cranking but not firing after the boat has been sitting for a while is possibly the fuel pump regulator. To test this theory, try doing what I said before and cycle the key to on but don't crank for 4 seconds. Do that twice and then try and fire the boat. When you do that, you are manually priming the fuel pump. If it fires up immediately, then it is probably your fuel pump regulator. Once the system starts and is primed, then you probably will not have an issue the rest of the day unless you stop for another long period of time. As to how to change your fuel pump regulator, that is out of my knowledge database. I think you have to change the whole fuel pump which is located on the fuel tank (pump in tank system). I would recommend you have your dealer deal with that.... Good luck.

[rdlangston13]

So, I did ask around a little and the only thing I can come up with is if you are seeing an initial lag where the engine is cranking but not firing after the boat has been sitting for a while is possibly the fuel pump regulator. To test this theory, try doing what I said before and cycle the key to on but don't crank for 4 seconds. Do that twice and then try and fire the boat. When you do that, you are manually priming the fuel pump. If it fires up immediately, then it is probably your fuel pump regulator. Once the system starts and is primed, then you probably will not have an issue the rest of the day unless you stop for another long period of time. As to how to change your fuel pump regulator, that is out of my knowledge database. I think you have to change the whole fuel pump which is located on the fuel tank (pump in tank system). I would recommend you have your dealer deal with that.... Good luck.

I have not ever turned the battery switch to off while the key or motor are on.

To better clarify my situation, if I spend 1 day running the boat on battery one, shut it off for the night and turn the battery switch to off, come out the next morning and turn the switch back to battery one it will fire right up no problem,

If i spend the day running on battery one, shut the boat off for the night, turn the battery switch off, come out the next morning and flip the switch to battery two then it will crank for 5-6 seconds before firing up. Cranking speed is totally normal, no slow crank issues. This scenario is also true for the inverse. If I run for a day on battery 2, shut it off and turn the battery switch to off overnight and flip it to one in the morning the same issues arises, 5-6 seconds of cranking before firing.

Its not a huge problem but my gets embarrassed by it and im not sure if there is an underlying issue that would get worse and lead to a no start issue.