anyone else see CC buying indmar?

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11-10-2022, 03:05 PM
sandm

anyone else see CC buying indmar?

wonder what this will do to skiers/mb and any of the others using indmar?
heard CC owns pcm as well since that's what centurion/supreme have been using.

Official Correct Craft Press Release:
Millington, TN (November 7, 2022) - Today, Correct Craft announced the acquisition of Indmar Marine Engines, a pioneer and leader in the inboard marine engine segment with a hard-earned reputation for delivering world-class quality and reliability. Indmar will be operated by Correct Craft subsidiary Liberty Technologies which also manages PCM Engines, Crusader Engines, Levitator Engines, and Velvet Drive Transmissions.

While an important new member of Correct Craft's portfolio of brands, Indmar will continue to operate independently, retaining its own brand and team members. Indmar will remain operating from its world headquarters in Millington, TN, while continuing to supply its boat-building manufacturers and network of dealers.

For over half a century, Indmar has been focused on the future, introducing new innovations and technologies that have enabled the sport and the industry to progress and grow. From the early adoption of fuel-injected engines to the introduction of green technologies that reduce exhaust emissions, Indmar has embraced opportunities to make its products better, improving the environment and the lives of boating enthusiasts and families across the world.

Chuck Rowe, former President of Indmar Marine Engines, commented, “I am proud of the company and brand that our family has built. The acquisition by Correct Craft provides significant opportunities for long-term growth while continuing to build and honor my family’s legacy; However, most importantly, the acquisition with Correct Craft provides additional security and opportunity for our employees, boat building partners, and network of dealers.” Rowe added, “There could not be a better company to sell our business to than Correct Craft. The values and culture of Correct Craft are one-of-a-kind, and I know Indmar is in good hands.”

Liberty Technologies President Mark McKinney stated, “We are excited to welcome the Indmar team into our Liberty Technologies family.” McKinney added, “The Rowe family has done an extraordinary job of leading Team Indmar and making outstanding advancements in the inboard marine industry. Though Chuck Rowe’s shoes will be hard to fill, I am excited about the opportunity to continue the legacy of Indmar and to work with the team to support and provide additional features, products, and opportunities that will elevate Indmar and their OEMs to new heights.”

CEO of Correct Craft, Bill Yeargin, stated, “I am tremendously happy to have Indmar join us as a part of the Correct Craft family. Chuck and his father have built a phenomenal company that resulted in both men’s induction into the Marine Industry Hall of Fame. I appreciate the trust they have placed in our team, and we will do our best to meet and exceed their expectations.”

Yeargin added, “Indmar has a strong team whom we respect greatly. We are excited to continue providing Indmar’s customers with products well beyond what we can imagine. We are looking forward to an exciting future!”

About Indmar Marine Engines
Indmar is the world’s largest privately held manufacturer of gasoline-powered inboard marine engines. Indmar has a pedigree going back nearly 51 years in the inboard marine industry and a proud tradition of pointing the way forward. Indmar was the first inboard manufacturer to deliver fuel injection, and custom-calibrated engines and the first to produce an inboard engine with a catalyzed exhaust, which is now the industry standard. Today, this legendary brand delivers an inimitable mix of unrivaled performance, meticulous craftsmanship, and ground-breaking innovations – charting a course for others to follow. Indmar operates advanced manufacturing facilities in the U.S. with distribution centers in Millington, TN, Merced, CA and Clarkston, WA. For more information, please visit www.indmar.com.

About Correct Craft
Celebrating 97 years of excellence in the marine industry, Correct Craft is a Florida-based company with global operations. Focused on “Making Life Better,” the Correct Craft family includes Nautique, Centurion, Supreme, Bass Cat, Yar-Craft, SeaArk, Parker, and Ingenity boat companies, Pleasurecraft Engine Group, Indmar Marine Engines, Velvet Drive Transmissions, Watershed Innovation and Aktion Parks. For more information, please visit www.correctcraft.com.
11-10-2022, 04:03 PM
larry_arizona

anyone else see CC buying indmar?

Very interesting acquisition.

Curious if Indmar stays Ford focused or switches to GM. Correct crafts other engine companies only use GM engines.

Maybe nothing changes.

Bottomline I doubt it much matters what engine brand goes in a SC boat.

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11-10-2022, 09:19 PM
KnoxMojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry_arizona

Very interesting acquisition.

Curious if Indmar stays Ford focused or switches to GM. Correct crafts other engine companies only use GM engines.

Maybe nothing changes.

Bottomline I doubt it much matters what engine brand goes in a SC boat.

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Talked to a friend with inside info, nothing changes, it's just an acquisition.
11-10-2022, 10:34 PM
brad460

Skier Choice has already signed a contract to move to MerCruiser…
11-10-2022, 10:36 PM
KnoxMojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad460

Skier Choice has already signed a contract to move to Mercury engines…

What's your source? Mine works for the company.
11-10-2022, 10:40 PM
mgswake

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad460

Skier Choice has already signed a contract to move to MerCruiser…

If SC makes a move to mercruiser or other engine, how does that affect all the owners with indmar engines regarding warranty work?
11-11-2022, 08:50 AM
larry_arizona

anyone else see CC buying indmar?

Mercruiser 6.2l v8 is a near knockoff copy of a GM LS V8.

370hp/410 ft lbs.

Problem is, they don’t have higher output variants or a forced induction option.

They do have an 8.2L v8 big block.

As far as warranty with current raptors, the warranty resides with Indmar, not SC. The warranty and parts would be uneffected.

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11-11-2022, 10:31 AM
MJHSupra

GM or Ford, as long as 1) the oil is easy to change and 2) the winterization plugs are easy to get to, and 3) easy of tune-up to get to plugs . . . just saying.
11-11-2022, 11:22 AM
larry_arizona

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJHSupra

GM or Ford, as long as 1) the oil is easy to change and 2) the winterization plugs are easy to get to, and 3) easy of tune-up to get to plugs . . . just saying.

Mercruiser might be the easiest to winterize/basic service.

I think mercruiser is the heyday powertrain.

I don’t think they have currently have a 1.7 transmission available, but perhaps easy to make one.

All speculation until SC announces a drivetrain change.

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11-11-2022, 11:58 AM
HFarr

Ford or Chevrolet Blocks? I personally have had both and have had good experiences with both, but, Let the battles begin! LOL! Let me start with some puns:

CHEVROLET= Can Hear Every Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips.

CHEVROLET= Cheap, Hardly Efficient, Virtually Runs On Luck Every Time.

CHEVROLET= Cracked Heads, Every Valve Rattles, Oil Leaks Every Time

FORD= Fix Or Repair Daily
FORD=Found On Road Dead
FORD =Freaking Old Rebuilt Dodge

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11-11-2022, 12:28 PM
larry_arizona

anyone else see CC buying indmar?

Mercruiser tooled their own engines. Copied the GM 6.2L LS blocks, same bore and stroke, cam in block, overhead valve configuration.

Marine specific engines. They are stout.

Mercruiser has stated that the new GM LT based engines are unnecessary for marine use with all the complications of direct injection.

I tend to agree. The GM LS engines are outstanding for power and durability. So they picked a good engine to copy.

https://www.boats.com/reviews/mercru...marine-engine/

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11-11-2022, 04:06 PM
vdubnick

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry_arizona

Mercruiser tooled their own engines. Copied the GM 6.2L LS blocks, same bore and stroke, cam in block, overhead valve configuration.

Marine specific engines. They are stout.

Mercruiser has stated that the new GM LT based engines are unnecessary for marine use with all the complications of direct injection.

I tend to agree. The GM LS engines are outstanding for power and durability. So they picked a good engine to copy.

https://www.boats.com/reviews/mercru...marine-engine/

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yeah, never had an issue with my old centurion with a 350 black scorpion engine.
11-11-2022, 04:10 PM
vdubnick

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry_arizona

Mercruiser might be the easiest to winterize/basic service.

I think mercruiser is the heyday powertrain.

I don’t think they have currently have a 1.7 transmission available, but perhaps easy to make one.

All speculation until SC announces a drivetrain change.

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heyday uses both mercury and PCM, although their newest model only uses mercury
11-11-2022, 06:30 PM
brad460

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

What's your source? Mine works for the company.

Then you know this is 100% accurate info..
11-14-2022, 11:41 AM
SONIC

Seems like an odd acquisition to me since they don't even use their engines at present.

There's nothing I love more than seeing giant companies buy other giant companies in a space where shit it already absurdly overpriced. ;)
Anybody ever wondered if correct craft charges too much, this pretty much says yes, yes they do :roll:
"hey lets buy a competing engine company for no apparent reason to stifle competition, sounds fun"
11-14-2022, 12:15 PM
MJHSupra

Yea - those that dominate a market segment will dictate the price and try to control the direction of the segment. I see this all the time in software and a company flush with cash. Reminds me of Brunswick Boats buying everything up a little while back.

Family owned and operated - someone got paid big time . . . . Good for them.
11-14-2022, 12:38 PM
vdubnick

Quote:

Originally Posted by SONIC

Seems like an odd acquisition to me since they don't even use their engines at present.

There's nothing I love more than seeing giant companies buy other giant companies in a space where shit it already absurdly overpriced. ;)
Anybody ever wondered if correct craft charges too much, this pretty much says yes, yes they do :roll:
"hey lets buy a competing engine company for no apparent reason to stifle competition, sounds fun"

im not sure if they get any IP with the purchase, but they will definitely get some cost savings. It gives them more negotiating power with the suppliers, which drives their costs down, so hopefully the consumer cost stays the same. It could go either way tho, but usually companies try making money on the cost side, vs just jacking prices.
11-14-2022, 01:00 PM
RickT

Skier's Choice has not had any discussions with Mercruiser and is not changing to them. We are excited about our future with Indmar and Ford. We think PCM's involvement will benefit all involved.
11-14-2022, 01:07 PM
KnoxMojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad460

Then you know this is 100% accurate info..

This didn't age well for you if you read RickT response, lol. Pretty sure he knows a thing or 3.
11-14-2022, 07:13 PM
MJHSupra

The dreaded rumor mill put to a stop . . . . oopsie on that call. LOL
11-14-2022, 10:56 PM
brad460

Too early to declare this “didn’t age well”…and I wouldn’t characterize this as a rumor. Anyways, Rick’s reply is as it should be..we can stop talking about it.
11-15-2022, 01:23 PM
sandm

all the press says that indmar will operate as a separate company and nothing changes but we all know with mergers that means "for now".

I'm sure skiers has a good supplier agreement in place but makes ya wonder how it feels to now be incentivizing CC on another front with every boat sold(sure we all remember builders paying royalties to nautty for towers or 'bu for surf tabs) and what that supplier agreement will do in terms of pricing once it's up for renewal.

it's in indmar's best interest to continue to supply the maximum number of powerplants to a diverse range of manufacturers BUT they now have a whole lot more debt to pay back to fund the purchase price to CC. that money has to come from somewhere and it's likely at the expense of buyers down the road.

sonic has some good points in all of this....
11-15-2022, 09:51 PM
MJHSupra

I'm not following you on the Debt comment, but since this is about boats and not balance sheets, AOK.
11-15-2022, 10:38 PM
russellsmojo

Isn’t this just a private company selling out after record years for a bunch of $$$$? Happens all the time. Supra/Moomba is going to be a solid regardless of what is under the hatch!!

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11-16-2022, 11:21 AM
MJHSupra

Yes, it sounds like Indmar was family owned. Could of been solo or had investors over the years.

Now they are part of a chain of companies in a private equity firm. I recall that is how Correct Craft got new owners years ago under a PE firm that obtained full ownership. Bunch of companies that roll into other companies. CC operates all the engine and trans companies under one area they call Liberty Technologies.

I recall reading about CC purchased a local boat company called Bryant Boats probably 5 years ago. That was just after CC got majority interest in Centurion Boats and Supreme. They were buying other boat companies too.

One day that all might be all sold too. Little fish getting eaten by bigger fish. Those bigger fish getting eaten bigger fish, etc.
Buy for X, company builds and grows, sell for Y. Meanwhile, they pay equity and ownership fees up the chain of command.
11-16-2022, 01:37 PM
sandm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJHSupra

I'm not following you on the Debt comment

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJHSupra

Meanwhile, they pay equity and ownership fees up the chain of command.

sounds like you are following the debt comment. CC will now expect some ROI over the next "x" years on that coming from reduced expenses or increased profits. not in the next 12 months but it'll come. I've been through this before with my current and last company with both PE ownership and larger company buyout.

it will be interesting to see what happens. CC bought several engine companies back in the day. now pcm and crusader are basically one company and built in the same plant along with a couple other variants for specialty boats. took a few years for that to happen but that's usually part of why companies of a similar industry buy each other. synergies in the non-production areas and consolidation of space are where the expenses are typically gained.

I wonder if the long term play here is assembling a boat "company" to rival or surpass 'bu and launch them public. that's where the true value is to most PE's.

and to russel's comment, skiers still builds a GREAT boat no matter who's powering it and frankly in today's world, there's nothing wrong with pcm, indmar and mercruiser. all build good motors if you can take the ford/chevy brand goggles off.
11-16-2022, 02:58 PM
larry_arizona

Or Mercruiser goggles as they are neither ford or Chevy.

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11-16-2022, 06:44 PM
HFarr

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry_arizona

Or Mercruiser goggles as they are neither ford or Chevy.

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Maybe they should put Volvos in them [emoji2957]

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11-16-2022, 06:45 PM
HFarr

Yeah, I know it's still a GM block. Had one. It was also a good motor.

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11-16-2022, 07:10 PM
larry_arizona

anyone else see CC buying indmar?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFarr

Yeah, I know it's still a GM block. Had one. It was also a good motor.

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False, it’s not a GM block. Mercruiser made their own engine.

It’s a 6.2 liter v8 block that shares rods,pistons with their 4.5 liter V6.

4.0” bore and 3.75” stroke

GM 6.2l is 4.065 bore and 3.66 stroke

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11-16-2022, 07:26 PM
HFarr

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry_arizona

False, it’s not a GM block. Mercruiser made their own engine.

It’s a 6.2 liter v8 block that shares rods,pistons with their 4.5 liter V6.

4.0” bore and 3.75” stroke

GM 6.2l is 4.065 bore and 3.66 stroke

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I was referring to the Volvo block.

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11-17-2022, 12:48 PM
sandm

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry_arizona

Or Mercruiser goggles as they are neither ford or Chevy.

true but the mercruiser is a chevy knockoff. I know it's "different" but after using chevy products for years and years, they knew enough where to start and changed the bore/stoke enough to avoid patent lawsuits and removed all the emissions/direct injection crap that's not needed. guessing it also made them more profit not paying gm upcharge for blocks anymore.
04-18-2023, 08:59 AM
Moombas

Don't forget about Ilmore which makes some of MC's engines. GM based inboards.
04-18-2023, 09:42 AM
Josh828

Could this not mean a stalemate in motor improvements though?
PCM vs Indmar were the main competitors. I feel like maybe not at first but after some years there will be no need to improve they have the market fairly locked down.
I don't see mercruiser coming out with a 600Hp motor unless it is that 8.2L V8 but MPG would be laughable I would guess

The only advantage I could see is if you could option Indmar or PCM in your boat but I don't see that happening either