Go Surf Assist / WaveControl system on '07 LSV: Love it but not recommended

Summary: I installed the WaveControl system (same as Go Surf Assist but bought from WakeMakers) and installed it on our ’07 LSV. We love it, but BE WARNED: GSA told me that their kit cannot be used on this hull. I would not recommend it to anyone with this same hull unless you are very handy, and savvy both mechanically and with micro-controllers, PCB soldering, etc.

Full Story:I installed the tabs following the instructions as best as I could, took it for the first test and found that it was completely unusable. It couldn't make a wave in any setting. I contacted Go Surf and got in touch with a very friendly and helpful tech support guy (Ryan?). After talking to him for a bit he asked about the boat and said something like "oh that Mobius transom is ugly, basically we tell folks it won't work on that boat and won't sell the system". Crap. I just wasted a lot of money and drilled 16 holes in my boat (including 2 rather large ones for the cables)

There are 2 problems with the installation and instructions.
1. The transom is not "flat" like virtually every other boat. It has those sculpted little ridges which mess up the installation template and the operating geometry.
2. The instructions (at least from Wakemakers at the time) basically said something like select the actuator connection point such that the deployed angle is at least 18 degrees (or 11?). When I talked to Go Surf, he said "oh no, the deploy angle should be 0-5 degrees.

So here's what I did: I threw away the installation instructions and template. They were way over-simplified anyway which would probably be fine 90% of the time. I removed the actuator mounting and epoxied all the holes (I now have white scars on the transom as proof of my pains). I manually located the actuator mounts so that 1) the tabs were nearly touching the swim platform when retracted and 2) they were aligned such that operating geometry was aligned without binding throughout the full deploy/retract travel of the actuator. This was not easy but it can be done with lots of time, experimentation, patience and a meticulous attention to detail, millimeters matter.

The next problem was that to achieve an installation with a functional geometry, the tabs had way too much travel. Basically the controller goes full out and then you can make little "adjustments" but I needed the tabs to only deploy part-way. I tried to get in touch with the guy at GSA that wrote the controller firmware to see about a modification (David?). After a dozen, un-returned calls and way too many weeks trying I gave up, took matters into my own hands and wrote new firmware myself. I made the motor deployment timer a variable and added some serial interface commands to adjust it in real time. After experimenting for many, many hours, I had some reasonably good code and some set points that were giving me a deployed angle of 0 degrees.

And now... it's SWEEEEET! We're making a nice big, clean wave with just a push of a button. I love being able to easily switch sides and ride every combination of regular/goofy, heelside/toeside. I can even hop the wave and transition while riding now. The only downside as far as I'm concerned is that we run with more ballast (both 1100# ballast bags nearly full) and the fuel economy has suffered as a result. I think we're burning more than 6 gal/hour when slammed. I usually fill ballast to 75% to save a bit of fuel as the impact to the wave is noticeable but not significant.

The controller is just an Arduino with standard peripherals for the motor control, remote control and GPS. ($50 of common parts). The control panel has very nice fit and finish, A+ here. None of the PCBs are conformal-coated or otherwise sealed/protected for a “marine” application. The actual tabs are well made and clearly took some R&D investment. I wanted to build my own system as the price seems way too high for the product but my wife didn’t want me to start another R&D project of my own so we decided that the price was worth my time. Unfortunately, I ended up spending quite a bit of time on this, so I can no longer justify the price, but by that time I was already committed.

There are some things in my firmware that are not final. I haven’t implemented anything with GPS for speed protection like the GSA system does, nor the “launch” feature which allows you to use it as a regular trim tab. I am happy to share what I’ve written but only very cautiously as this is way beyond a simple installation and I’m in no position to get into the support world.

The attachements here don't seem to work so I'll add pictures later if I can get it working.

Super interesting, as the guy wanting this called GSA and asked if they had spacers for this boat and he said yes. So he ordered them.

We are planning an install. Maybe it’s gonna get ugly?


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It's going to get ugly.

If you are the type who has access to a machine shop, likes to make custom, precision parts for your projects and writes custom firmware/software for other projects (at least "Arduino" hobbyist projects) then you can do it and you'll get my endorsement. You don't need a machine shop for this but that is the type of skill-set required. If those aren't your skills/hobbies, I would not recommend it. It won't be a quick, 1-day installation. It was a long road for me to get there. I probably invested close to 200 hours over several months. You can save a lot of that time since you can avoid my 2 failed attempts and I'll share the code I wrote (probably 100 of those hours) but I can easily see it taking 20+ hours.

The spacers are the least of the concerns. The spacer gets you up over the little step at the bottom of the transom. But the transom is kind of sloped and curved, both of which mess up the geometry. Because of the slight slope, the mount of the actuator is "closer" to the tab which I solved by moving the mount "down" the transom closer to the hinge point of the tab. This then caused the travel of the actuator to create a greater radial reaction in the tab which then made the deployed angle way too much and led to a need for custom firmware to run the deployment actuator for a shorter amount of time. A shorter action actuator would have helped but I searched and couldn't find anything that would work. Another option would be to mount the actuator "higher" but this would require it sticking above the swim deck, sort of like extreme travel suspensions in dune buggies do. Aesthetically, it would be hideous but who cares if it gets you a huge wave, right?

I forgot about the curved part of the transom. I had to make a shim that fit under the actuator mount and contoured that curve. It wasn't much, maybe 5 degrees but without it, the actuator would bind up. You need the 3 screws of the mount to be in the same plane as the hinge. I started trying to just use some stainless washers but it was too difficult to hold all the loose pieces in place while mocking it up and testing. I tried to tape washers in place but it just wasn't working well. And going this route, you absolutely must get a working mock-up before drilling and mounting. The templates won't work. Holding it up in the right place, marking and drilling won't work, even if you are super-dooper careful. I tried those methods and failed before I broke out the micrometer and got a working mock-up.

I get the impression that you are much more precise in your work than I am. [emoji1688][emoji1787]

I have installed 2 GSA systems on two boats, but nothing even remotely as complicated as you are describing. I think the hard one took me 4 hours.

Thanks for your feedback. I need to eyeball this boat quick!


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Originally Posted by dakota4ce

I get the impression that you are much more precise in your work than I am. [emoji1688][emoji1787]

I have installed 2 GSA systems on two boats, but nothing even remotely as complicated as you are describing. I think the hard one took me 4 hours.

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Well, on my first attempt, I held the template up, drilled holes, attached everything and was ready for water in about 4 hours...

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Originally Posted by gregski

Well, on my first attempt, I held the template up, drilled holes, attached everything and was ready for water in about 4 hours...

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And you got proper deployment angles and proper stow angles?


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That's a lot of work. I feel your pain.

https://www.wakegarage.com/projects-...urf-tabs-r185/

You should post a write up to wakegarage.com

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Originally Posted by dakota4ce

And you got proper deployment angles and proper stow angles?

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On my first "just use the template" attempt, I got an acceptable stow angle but it wasn't tight to the swim deck and the deploy angle was greater than 18 degrees or whatever which was what the instructions said to do. The problem is that there was either a bit of a disconnect between the WakeMakers instructions and GSA's, or the instructions were just naturally evolving but GSA told me "oh no, you really only want it to deploy to 0-5 degrees". It's counter-intuitive but the wave totally disappears if you deploy the tab too far. All of this "just works" if you have a perfectly flat transom...

Now, I have the stow angle good and tight to the deck but it would still deploy way too far using the GSA firmware, hence my custom code. I deploy it to "exactly" 0 degrees every time. I would like to add a measurement sensor to readback actual position but that's definitely for some future "hobby time" that I have to hide from my wife :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gregski

On my first "just use the template" attempt, I got an acceptable stow angle but it wasn't tight to the swim deck and the deploy angle was greater than 18 degrees or whatever which was what the instructions said to do. The problem is that there was either a bit of a disconnect between the WakeMakers instructions and GSA's, or the instructions were just naturally evolving but GSA told me "oh no, you really only want it to deploy to 0-5 degrees". It's counter-intuitive but the wave totally disappears if you deploy the tab too far. All of this "just works" if you have a perfectly flat transom...

Now, I have the stow angle good and tight to the deck but it would still deploy way too far using the GSA firmware, hence my custom code. I deploy it to "exactly" 0 degrees every time. I would like to add a measurement sensor to readback actual position but that's definitely for some future "hobby time" that I have to hide from my wife :)

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Roger that. I have never used any template—I have installed the plate, run the actuator out, chose a mounting point, run it back in, check stow angle at same mounting point, change holes, do again, and fumbled around until there is a happy medium available that maximizes stow while keeping deployment at 10-11 degrees or less. In other words, the mounting point for the upper actuator has never been the same from kit to kit.

Funny thing also, measuring the angles is highly subjective using a phone app. No two “10 degrees” are likely the same.

It’s too bad you had crap instructions. Ideal deployment on my F24 was about 7 degrees, and on my Moomba about 10 degrees. And I knew that before drilling a single hole.

I mocked it up on this boat last night. It gets decent stow, I would guess 22-24 degrees (enough to not touch water) when up near the platform bracket. I need to see with variable actuator mount positions and pin holes where deployment falls. My guess is I will be in the 2” or more above the hinge range for the upper mounting point.

I am still deciding if I want to dick around with making the spacers. That’s going to get very annoying.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakota4ce

Funny thing also, measuring the angles is highly subjective using a phone app. No two “10 degrees” are likely the same.

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Agreed, I actually found it easier to use trigonometry. I taped a string to the hull up front, pulled it tight and then tied to something behind the boat right at the height that it touched the corner of the transom. This became the 0 degrees reference point and then using the length of the tab, you can quickly work out the angle of the tab by measuring the height from the string. (I translated that to distance from the swim deck to make my measuring stick for checking angles while on the water.) It's not linear but 1 degree was about 1/4" (around 5 degrees) so it was pretty easy to be consistent this way.

Your hull may be just different enough. On my second attempt, I did exactly as you describe checking the stow and deploy angles. The problem for me was that the actuator mount was off plane just enough that it looked right holding it by hand but it was enough to bind up when rigidly attached. Mark the mount on tape and hold it while someone else runs the tab in and out, if you see the actuator moving sideways on it's pin at all, you'll have a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gregski

Agreed, I actually found it easier to use trigonometry. I taped a string to the hull up front, pulled it tight and then tied to something behind the boat right at the height that it touched the corner of the transom. This became the 0 degrees reference point and then using the length of the tab, you can quickly work out the angle of the tab by measuring the height from the string. (I translated that to distance from the swim deck to make my measuring stick for checking angles while on the water.) It's not linear but 1 degree was about 1/4" (around 5 degrees) so it was pretty easy to be consistent this way.

Your hull may be just different enough. On my second attempt, I did exactly as you describe checking the stow and deploy angles. The problem for me was that the actuator mount was off plane just enough that it looked right holding it by hand but it was enough to bind up when rigidly attached. Mark the mount on tape and hold it while someone else runs the tab in and out, if you see the actuator moving sideways on it's pin at all, you'll have a problem.

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Roger that. I think we will get it to work. I will employ the plastic spacers to keep the sliding to a minimum and it will be good I reckon. As long as the binding is not show stopping, they do wear in a bit.

I am not a perfectionist by any stretch. But consistent function is the goal.

I also reserve the right to reverse the up/down orientation of the upper mount to make it fly. That’s a trick I have employed before, cool or not.




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i reached out to gsa and got an email from ryan i think said it should work ok and i included my year make and model 08 mobius lsv? he said send picture first . so who is telling the truth or is gsa blowing me off?

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Originally Posted by mikepo26

i reached out to gsa and got an email from ryan i think said it should work ok and i included my year make and model 08 mobius lsv? he said send picture first . so who is telling the truth or is gsa blowing me off?

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Send him the picture and find out. I think that GSA works just fine with >95% of boats so his first reaction is "it should work ok". When I talked to him, it took a bit for him to remember the transom on this hull and that was when he said "oh yeah... we tell people it won't work on that one".

We are putting it onto this Launch 21 this week. Waiting for some upper actuator mounts that are a bit more compact.

Used a contour gauge to make a shim for the curved hull to create a flat hinge mount.

The mock-up works great—storage up close to swim deck and deployment in the 11 degree range.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakota4ce

We are putting it onto this Launch 21 this week. Waiting for some upper actuator mounts that are a bit more compact.

Used a contour gauge to make a shim for the curved hull to create a flat hinge mount.

The mock-up works great—storage up close to swim deck and deployment in the 11 degree range.

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Sounds like you're on the right track. Can you get the deploy angle to 0 degrees? That's the sweet-spot for me, 11 was definitely too much.

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Originally Posted by gregski

Sounds like you're on the right track. Can you get the deploy angle to 0 degrees? That's the sweet-spot for me, 11 was definitely too much.

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It will come up to near zero if we start at 11. My past boats fell into shape in the 5 degree range it seemed.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gregski

Sounds like you're on the right track. Can you get the deploy angle to 0 degrees? That's the sweet-spot for me, 11 was definitely too much.

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It’s also definitely all in the measurement methodology. I just use the simpleton phone app.


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