There is always a consequence to exceeding a boats max payload. Premature engine and drivetrain life.
No different that exceeding a trucks tow capacity, will it pull overloaded? Sure, but for how long.
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There is always a consequence to exceeding a boats max payload. Premature engine and drivetrain life.
No different that exceeding a trucks tow capacity, will it pull overloaded? Sure, but for how long.
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Love it. This amplitude bar measures hull draft—basically—yes? Excellent idea. I could learn the limit and know before working the piss out of the motor in vain.Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
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Probably not apples to apples on this comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
I think before you start wrecking mechanicals, the boat simply will not get to speed. I don’t think you’re going to grenade a motor or tranny running overloaded. It simply won’t pull it.....?
I am sure you will disagree with me, as per forum dynamics, but I have not heard of premature driveline failure in a surf boat due to heavy loads.
Maybe someone has.
Max capacity ratings are not correlated with driveline wear limits as far as I know. They’re correlated with the hull’s ability to float the weight safely, no?
If the former were true, the 575 boats would have higher ratings than the 400 boats.
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Let’s see pics of that ride! How fast? R U sold on the SL now?Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
I’m waiting on the 19 SL, a closeout one The problem is, if they are that good there won’t be any :)
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I didn’t take pics, unfortunately, but do I have expensive taste coming from the big mama pump SE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgigs7
I was impressed. ESPECIALLY in 11’ of water. Something I would typically avoid!
11.4 I think. Autowake ON. Pitch at 8.5 degrees and roll at 4 degrees, amplitude 100. People moving everywhere, pumps running all directions....just sweet.
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I truly hope that the dealer gave me this info because I was talking about trading in and I also hope that this info is not that secret ... I wasn’t told that but neither do I want the dealer get into trouble as this isn’t my intent.Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy
The cats are out of the bag anyway—all over the place. So so exciting!Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_butt
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Well I guess you did spill the beans ... the tube/sensor will have a wireless connection ... which is where a lot of things are going if they aren’t truly required to be failsafe ...Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
Well on 2nd thought maybe not ... you’re running the sensor between bag and pump so if sensor indicates that bag is full then pump stops ... whatever you put in between the reversible pump as a switch will do ... same concept as you have on the touch screen and the manual switches ... in an home you would call it a 3way switch I guess ...
This is for goose:
Regarding full bag sensors. With the 2018 auto wake equipped boat the computer doesn’t really care how much ballast is in each bag, is this right? It will continue to pump in or pump out in the appropriate spots in order to satisfy its sensors I assume. In other words when a ballast bag that is on timers reaches “100%“ does auto wake stop trying to fill that bag?
Fast forward to 2019 and bags with sensors. I would think this offers an advantage from the standpoint that once the bag is ful—auto awake will stop trying to fill it; and if it’s sensors are not satisfied yet at that point, it will tell you to move people. Because no ballast is available to affect running attitude.
What does the 2018 boat do in this scenario? What if you had your ballast timer set super long? Would it just pump water overboard trying to fill a bag that is already full in order to satisfy a sensor?
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Except that prop is the one thing you can’t control ... I’m the perfect example for that. Ordered the SL400with the 2277 prop because it worked well in my 2017 Malibu 23LSV ... except that the SL has a 1.5:1 tranny and not the 1.76 ... call me stupid because I was ...Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
So you would need to know pretty much every prop combination and test it to tell if the boat can do it or not ...
I learned the lesson quickly as nothing was happening when loaded up so got a different prop ... and it runs fine since. But with 5 people, 4 dogs and the additional 800 lbs of ballast the engine is running at 3800 to 4000 to push the weight ... and the wave is marginally better ... snot like your getting another 10 feet to play ... maybe 1 or 2 ...
As said before by others ... there’s only so much the boat can displace effectively regardless of engine ... except you consider a submarine a great surfboat [emoji12]
Pulling that load with a 400 is impressive. I am sure the wave is killer!
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Not to pretend to be goose ...Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
The 2018 requires calibration pretty much every time we’re filling initially - even without the PNP. Have to admit that I maybe should have never adjusted the filling times as they were going when the water was coming out of each of the vent lines but I did. Since then bags are full ... system keeps pumping. If I turn off cuz it’s stupid to fill what’s full I need to calibrate. If I forget first thing after setting a profile is pumps pushing water from the lake thru some hoses back into the lake [emoji12] ...
What also bugs me is this ... if roll can’t be achieved by filling either side ... why isn’t the system first trying to achieve the desired result by draining one side and filling the other which would be faster and then attempting to fill to max again as surfing is a question of displacement as discussed earlier?
And last - for wake boarding (and yes some people still do that) - the front ballast is all what impacts pitch ... which sux because the wake plate could a better job and faster cuz steepness of wake pretty much goes in hand with pitch ... at least on the SL. Now having that said I don’t need the front ballast full for wake boarding because have no skills ... but during each set I start out at about 50% in front at it will start filling to 100% if the driver doesn’t adjust pitch or wake plate to keep pitch within the acceptable tolerance for autowake ...
Was there a cut off date for this change? I took delivery June 16th. Would my dealer have details on what fittings, etc. are required? Or could you send?Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
Look at your bagsQuote:
Originally Posted by rpspa
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On the 18 autowake will stop fill once it gets to 100% according to the timer set. If you set your timers long it will continue to pump water out the side until the time is reached. If one bag is full and the other drains to a certain point to where the set amplitude and roll can’t be reached it will ask you to move people.Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
I think of all the things that that are changing on the new supras, I hope they move to a 1.76 :1 or a 2:1 transmission . I think that is one upgrade that needs to happen, before walk throughs or fancy screens etc. All my boats that were on the short list had 2:1 , the Sl was the only one without. When we go wake boarding I do miss having it.
Have not heard this is coming.....personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by shockthis
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its not. only boat that has the 1.76 is the new makai.
If I understood correctly the new Makai gets it only with the 450 not the 400. Correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
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That's what Drew Tinker said on FB, 1.76 only on the 450 on the Makai.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf Wagon
I think this has already been answered, but in 2018 AutoWake would only fill until the gauge said 100%. If your timers were way off, then it would be possible that the bag was NOT full, but the system would NOT continue to fill because the system thought it was full. If you changed your timers so that it would always overfill, then you would eventually also have a problem because the system is NOT setup to overfill for long periods of time with 6 pumps. It is likely if you did that consistently, that your engine divider panels would bow or fall in and worst case it could pop off your fittings. Both of these are bad....Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
In 2019, on Moomba with the ballast sensors, you can run the timers a little longer to be on the safe side (you should still try and get them as accurate as possible), but once the bag is truly full, it turns off the pumps AND resets gauge to 100% so that you know it really is full. AutoWake always tries to fill first before draining so this should result in max displacement. There is also visual indicators on the dash that will give you feedback if the bag is really full or not. An example of this might be if you run all day with full ballast. As most of you know, if you run all day, it is possible that you can lose some water through the pump or if some air is in the bag. If the sensor originally said the system was full, then your gauge would still show 100%. But if you look on the screen and see a green light, that means you can still add more weight to the bag. Once the system sees full again it will again turn off pump and reset gauge again. It is a little hard to explain but I think as more people use this system they will love the added value of the ballast sensors.
Also, the sensors are NOT wireless. We actually have 2 designs based on the different needs and different boat designs. One is a true ballast sensor and it is almost the same design as our draft sensor. It is a separate tube located in the transom that measures water from the bag as the bag fills up. Once the bag gets to a certain height, the sensor knows the bag is full and turns off the pump. And I know it will be asked but the sensor is taller than the factory bag. I don't want to give away all secrets, but it works really well. The other design is more of a flow sensor. It measures water going through the vent line and as water enters the vent, it also turns off the pump. This design is used in some applications and will be the sensor used for the 2018 and 2017 Moombas. These do require a harness and software, but again they can be used with any size bag as long as you are still using the vent lines. Again, it is important to get the timers close, but it also has visual indication when the system sees water in the vent line and when it doesn't.
Lastly, the reason it is important to get the timers close is because when the system resets, it also resets the drain timers. If you always want your bags full, then you could set the timers to any time and the system would always get full and then reset. However, the pumps will still drain for as long as the drain timers are set. You would NOT want the pumps to overdrain for long periods of time if there is no water in the bags. This will wear the impellors and cause damage. The beauty is if the pumps do NOT completely drain, then with the sensors it still shuts off when full.
To clarify, for 2019 Moomba has 3 engine options.Quote:
Originally Posted by trace
On all boats, you can get the 400 Raptor. It always has the 1.5 gear ratio.
On most boats, you can get the 450 Raptor. It always has the 1.76 gear ratio.
On the Makai only, you can get the 575 Raptor. It always has the 1.5 gear ratio.
Hope that clears it up. For most people, the 400 is all you will need and you can get the best prop for your application. If you are running heavy loads ALL the time, or if you are at altitude, then the 450 with 1.76 gears is a great option. If you want the best overall power AND speed, then the 575 is available on Makai.
Sorry for any redundancy I may have caused. I have a tiny little brain. Thank you so much for that explanation—makes sense and kicks butt!
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This is would be the absolutely best upgrade I can think of for my 2018 SL! Will this be something we can retrofit on the SL?Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
Hays correct just the 450
It's probably all good. Just messing with ya. yeah if your ordering a new one they kind have to give ya a little info. Good luck on new one!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_butt
I want one real bad. That's a beautiful boat all the way around. Does anybody list a boat for surfing with half the weight anymore? I know that's old school but was just wondering about fuel efficiency
Spending $100,000 on a new boat and worrying about fuel consumption? Who gives a crap. You want to feel the ballast as much as possible to get the biggest wave you canQuote:
Originally Posted by NLindellDC
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No offense specifically to Stazi— but I personally think that it’s horse crap when this particular shaming comes out on the forum. Who in their right mind would not be more in favor of burning 6 gallons per hour versus 12? Especially if you have a 60 gallon tank and you need to purchase fuel on the lake—it actually makes a difference. But whatever. Just because someone buys an expensive boat really has nothing to do with whether not they value a few bucks here and there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stazi
But you guys can have your way with me—I’m sure this is an unpopular stance. Because I have an expensive boat I should just probably dump fuel into the lake just for fun. 🤣
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I agree with you 100%!Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
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I agree with Dakota and Padge. It isn't even about the money. Stazi, you are completely missing a huge part of this equation. Time on the water making memories!!!!! If you are burning double the fuel and have to refill more often, then that's less time to be out enjoying it. Not every lake has a marina, or they might only have 1 and it is way on the other side. Stazi, contrary to your own popular belief, you don't know everything, mate.
I’m not really going after him specifically, either, but I have taken lots of crap for similar “concerns”.
Oddly enough, the more money I have been able to make in my life, the more I have come to value the few bucks here and there. I’m not exactly sure why? But anyway, there is also a practical reason as Knox pointed out.
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your damn right I care. Gas on the lake can be anywhere from 3.60 - 4.50. with a 70 gal tank you do the math.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stazi
I didn't take offense to it and I see your point to some degree. It always makes me laugh when guys care about top end, I only surf so I don't care about that. So the reason I asked is because everyone in my crew surfs regular. I have no desire to set up on the Starboard side or ever switch, etc. Also if I could run at lower RPM's it would be easier on engine and tranny, etc. I know it's old school, but that's why I bring it up, just wondering if anyone surfs slammed anymore. I went from Moomba to Centurion and now am eyeing this new 2019, so that's why I was askingQuote:
Originally Posted by Stazi
I fill my boat up every time I go out. Holds 85 gallons. So if the next time I had to fill it up it held 25 gallons instead of 40, that would be a bonus lol.
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Yes of course we all surf slammed, but not listed. The surf system waves, for the most part, are superior.Quote:
Originally Posted by NLindellDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
I'm sorry, I meant listed. And everything I have read about listed vs. surf system the listed wave wins, at least in some boats.
Listed waves have a lot of power, but the surf systems create a better wave and keeps you in the pocket more like an ocean wave instead of always surfing down a hill per say
I'm with you on the RPMs. Every little bit helps. There is a thread on the Supra SL about RPMs, motors, props, weights. Good read to follow along.
That's an interesting take and I buy that. Guess I'll have to demo and compare. My wave's pretty legit so it would have to be pretty impressive to impress meQuote:
Originally Posted by KnoxMojo