Moomba Makai Owners- Adding Weight?

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Originally Posted by haknslash

I wished I had measured my short WM bags to compare to stock before I sold them. Would be curious just how short mine were. It was by a lot I know that because I was concerned the connectors on the rear of the bag would wear or rip over time from the stress of having to be stretched just to connect to the mid ship bags. Thankfully I never ran those bags and were given replacements by WM that now fit as they should. The rear lockers of the Makai and the Max aren’t exactly the same it seems so it is strange they made a “one size fits both boats” bag. Based off y’all’s locker and filled bag pics it looks like WM left some meat on the bone with the Makai because there appears to be more room they could have used up in the upper “notch” shape of the bags. Just going by pics of course and maybe looks different in person. In the end if the wave looks killer and rides good now that’s what really matters I suppose. Just make sure the bag doesn’t move front to back a lot when filled and I think you’re good.

I will say go ahead and plan for strengthening your engine panels if you haven’t already because mine will pop in now that they’ve been pressed on a lot over time. Going to add some metal channel stock to beef them up. The port side is more of a concern when it collapses because of the oil dip stick can take some of the bag resting on it which isn’t good of course.

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Ya you could say they left some meat on the bone but I am sure it is for some legal reason as to not put the boat over the "listed" weight or something like that and because it is cheaper to manufacture since it covers more than 1 boat. Like you said it really doesn't matter as it makes the wave come alive and that is what matters.

As far as reinforcing the divider panels I just went the easy way and bought 2 of the wake makers kits and installed them. Also from the factory a few of my panels had some small screws in the channel to keep the dividers from jumping the track so I went on ahead and installed some on the ones that didn't have them. Both of those mods have helped tremendously as my port side divider would jump the track 70% of the time with the stock bags.

Kind of been following this one to see how this one would go, sounds like the WM bags are correct, but the rear storage bins wont fit with the new bags. Would love to have the extra weight but don't want to give up my bins either. Seems like if they were truly shaped to the Makai lockers the bins would still fit but cant blame them for having 1 bag to fit two different models. Guess I'll have to add a bit more lead to it, only have 350# in there currently.

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Originally Posted by RUGER761

Kind of been following this one to see how this one would go, sounds like the WM bags are correct, but the rear storage bins wont fit with the new bags. Would love to have the extra weight but don't want to give up my bins either. Seems like if they were truly shaped to the Makai lockers the bins would still fit but cant blame them for having 1 bag to fit two different models. Guess I'll have to add a bit more lead to it, only have 350# in there currently.

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Even if they were specifically made for the Makai I think you would have to lose the bins. I know the bins on my 19 were a little deeper than the 20+ but my factory bags came right to the bottom of them so I don't believe there is much room to expand with the bins installed. If you can find another place to store the stuff that is in your bins do it. It might not be as convenient but it will be well worth it. The bags make such a difference as it adds 700# as far back in the hull as possible. A bit more lead never hurt either.

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Originally Posted by TXSurf4

Even if they were specifically made for the Makai I think you would have to lose the bins. I know the bins on my 19 were a little deeper than the 20+ but my factory bags came right to the bottom of them so I don't believe there is much room to expand with the bins installed. If you can find another place to store the stuff that is in your bins do it. It might not be as convenient but it will be well worth it. The bags make such a difference as it adds 700# as far back in the hull as possible. A bit more lead never hurt either.

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We generally have a big enough crew or use to that I didnt need any more, but here lately been a smaller crew where Ive been kicking around ideas, but I know my wife isnt going to let me give up the bins. So lead looks to be the best solution. Current stack is sitting on the ledge under the rear corner seats so gear doesn't slide back out from under the seats and land on the bags. Works great for that!

I agree that a slightly different design on the makai bag with the profile towards the front being taller could get more weight in there. Also if you made the bag taller in the front and 6" longer, you could shorten the overall height and possibly get the newer storage bin to fit. My bins only needed about 3-4" to fit back in there. I may try to modify my bins to fit. I have a couple of ideas how to do it. I will photo everything if I do.

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So filled the bags this weekend and noticed my port side was venting hard!! Opened the locker and…..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...87f8b45d13.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...69aa9ce133.jpg
Bag was stuffed full as I would expect! Now I am not going to say this is the first time it has been this full but it is definitely the first time I have noticed it since I have been paying attention. Only thing I can think of was it was bc I was on plane when filling heading back up wind to surf down wind and that the speed helped the pumps stuff it full?! [emoji2371] anyone else seen this?


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$hitters full Clark!

Wave had to be awesome.

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Originally Posted by TXSurf4

So filled the bags this weekend and noticed my port side was venting hard!! Opened the locker and…..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...87f8b45d13.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...69aa9ce133.jpg
Bag was stuffed full as I would expect! Now I am not going to say this is the first time it has been this full but it is definitely the first time I have noticed it since I have been paying attention. Only thing I can think of was it was bc I was on plane when filling heading back up wind to surf down wind and that the speed helped the pumps stuff it full?! [emoji2371] anyone else seen this?


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Wow! Mine has never gotten that big. Did the vent get stopped up or kink? But that looks like it it taking maximum use of all the space. I have filled mine while on plane too and not gotten that much in it.

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Originally Posted by TXSurf4

So filled the bags this weekend and noticed my port side was venting hard!! Opened the locker and…..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...87f8b45d13.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...69aa9ce133.jpg
Bag was stuffed full as I would expect! Now I am not going to say this is the first time it has been this full but it is definitely the first time I have noticed it since I have been paying attention. Only thing I can think of was it was bc I was on plane when filling heading back up wind to surf down wind and that the speed helped the pumps stuff it full?! [emoji2371] anyone else seen this?


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I had to order the ball valves for mine from wakemakers. When they get that full they just vent/siphon.
Now I’ll fill them with the valve open, close when they vent out the side and it won’t allow it to continue the back flow.


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Originally Posted by HFarr

Wow! Mine has never gotten that big. Did the vent get stopped up or kink? But that looks like it it taking maximum use of all the space. I have filled mine while on plane too and not gotten that much in it.

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No the vent wasn't kinked at all as it was spewing out. It definitely filled the entire locker which is what you would expect it to do. I am going to work on figuring out how to get them to fill like this every time though.

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Originally Posted by j.mo

I had to order the ball valves for mine from wakemakers. When they get that full they just vent/siphon.
Now I’ll fill them with the valve open, close when they vent out the side and it won’t allow it to continue the back flow.


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They definitely did pull a siphon but I just flipped the pumps to drain and it stopped it in a matter of seconds.

Wow - I just installed the same kit but no where near that full. Leaves me wondering how much weight I’m leaving on the table…lol.

I don’t have the vent setup like you do, I was unscrewing one of the caps to get the air out but when they were flowing water out the top and no air any longer I just let the pump run until I thought they were tight. No idea they could swell that big!

Adjusted my timers and took a pick of my bags for reference.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...df18ae3dca.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7fc1b71322.jpg


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Originally Posted by Schlanseay

Adjusted my timers and took a pick of my bags for reference.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...df18ae3dca.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7fc1b71322.jpg


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Is that on a Makai or Max?

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Originally Posted by HFarr

Is that on a Makai or Max?

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It’s on a Kaiyen!


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My WM bags don't get that high when I fill them. I gotta figure out what's up!

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Originally Posted by HFarr

My WM bags don't get that high when I fill them. I gotta figure out what's up!

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Try filling them about 20 % and gently pull up on the long sides of the bags on each side. Mine were laying over lapped on the bottom side.


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Good lord I can't tell you how disappointed I am with these cheap panels that Skiers is using. Reinforced my side panels, and now my rear locker panel is popping out on the port side! I even put two screws in the bottom of it as a precaution when I installed the WM bags. Last time out it bowed and popped out of the track! I guess I will have to figure out how to stiffen it too!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e52586ac5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a3b38a1dad.jpg

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Mine pop out of the track every time. Kinda worried about the exhaust manifold heat against them.


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Originally Posted by HFarr

Good lord I can't tell you how disappointed I am with these cheap panels that Skiers is using. Reinforced my side panels, and now my rear locker panel is popping out on the port side! I even put two screws in the bottom of it as a precaution when I installed the WM bags. Last time out it bowed and popped out of the track! I guess I will have to figure out how to stiffen it too!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e52586ac5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a3b38a1dad.jpg

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Man that is a bummer to hear. I will have to keep an eye on my rears panels. I used WakeMakers Kit to reinforce mine engine dividers and actually bought 2 kits as I wanted to add some rigidity to more than just the main panels. I still have 2 pieces of channel that I didn't use and the hardware to go with it so I might just add it there.

[QUOTE=TXSurf4;380319]No the vent wasn't kinked at all as it was spewing out. It definitely filled the entire locker which is what you would expect it to do. I am going to work on figuring out how to get them to fill like this every time though.


Any luck on this?? I need to know :o

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Originally Posted by Schlanseay

Try filling them about 20 % and gently pull up on the long sides of the bags on each side. Mine were laying over lapped on the bottom side.


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I did this yesterday, and yep it was just that simple. Can't believe I didn't catch that before. I should have snapped a quick picture, but both bags filled out the entire space and went way up near the top. I still have not done anything to fix my rear panel that popped out of the track on me as I showed earlier. At least my sides seem to be holding well now. Hope I didn't just jinx myself!

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Could you put a piece of 1” aluminum angle iron under the original channel to keep the panel from pushing in. That is what I am going to try on my side panels

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Originally Posted by gedakbx

Could you put a piece of 1” aluminum angle iron under the original channel to keep the panel from pushing in. That is what I am going to try on my side panels

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I will probably end up putting a longer and deeper piece of channel there. You can see in the picture that the existing one does not go all the way to the end of the carpeted panel. On the sides, I would still recommend putting some metal on them to stiffen them. Then put some small screws in the bottom to keep from pulling out. They are soft and bow quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by HFarr

I did this yesterday, and yep it was just that simple. Can't believe I didn't catch that before. I should have snapped a quick picture, but both bags filled out the entire space and went way up near the top. I still have not done anything to fix my rear panel that popped out of the track on me as I showed earlier. At least my sides seem to be holding well now. Hope I didn't just jinx myself!

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Here are couple of pictures of my left and right rear bags filled now that I made sure they were centered and were not folded up on themselves as they were filling. I unscrewed one of the vent caps as they started to Balloon up and let all the air escape. That's 100% water in those pictures. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3d38a6af8a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...962dfce6d5.jpg

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Double post

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Originally Posted by HFarr

I did this yesterday, and yep it was just that simple. Can't believe I didn't catch that before. I should have snapped a quick picture, but both bags filled out the entire space and went way up near the top. I still have not done anything to fix my rear panel that popped out of the track on me as I showed earlier. At least my sides seem to be holding well now. Hope I didn't just jinx myself!

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Wow. I can't wait to go back out now.

I wonder how much weight we've been missing with them not filling up all the way.... No wonder I was swearing my storage bins would still fit! :D

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Originally Posted by dyrmz134

Wow. I can't wait to go back out now.

I wonder how much weight we've been missing with them not filling up all the way.... No wonder I was swearing my storage bins would still fit! :D

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Speaking of storage bins...I posted some pictures early on with my storage bins sitting on top of the WM bags full, or what I thought was full, and they only sat a few inches higher than the fiberglass around the locker. I will have to do that again as I am sure they would be drastically higher now.

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[QUOTE=dyrmz134;381041]

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Originally Posted by TXSurf4

No the vent wasn't kinked at all as it was spewing out. It definitely filled the entire locker which is what you would expect it to do. I am going to work on figuring out how to get them to fill like this every time though.


Any luck on this?? I need to know :o

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No, unfortunately our lake is now 4' down and I had to pull the Makai off the lift and put it in the garage so that it didn't get stuck on the lift. Our last trip up I didn't pull it out as we just played on the Jet Skis and surfed on our neighbor's Malibu as he is still able to get his boat on and off his lift (at least for the next few weekends). It seems like some others have gotten it figured out here in the post below though. Our next trip up I am going to launch the boat and just anchor it up in front of our boat house for the weekend so I will definitely try it out and report back.

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Originally Posted by HFarr

Here are couple of pictures of my left and right rear bags filled now that I made sure they were centered and were not folded up on themselves as they were filling. I unscrewed one of the vent caps as they started to Balloon up and let all the air escape. That's 100% water in those pictures. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3d38a6af8a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...962dfce6d5.jpg

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Originally Posted by TXSurf4

Awesome video! It had actually popped up in my feed before I saw it here. I am going to do the dome light mod next weekend so I can turn it off on the 4th while we watch fireworks. Did you just mount the switch with double sided tape? I never realized that the bags were specific to the port and starboard side they defintely should have put that on the box and was a definite miss on Wakemakers end. I will have to climb in there and see if I just got them right by luck lol. If you aren't using your rear trays anymore venting the bags off the top and teeing in to the overflow is a great way to go I know Hak had mentioned it as well.

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Did you bags not come with a graphic on them indicating their locations in the boat? There should be a graphic of an overhead view of a boat and an overlay of a “bag” indicating where they are installed.

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Originally Posted by Tommy2slow

Did you bags not come with a graphic on them indicating their locations in the boat? There should be a graphic of an overhead view of a boat and an overlay of a “bag” indicating where they are installed.

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O they did. I just never noticed them until a month or so ago when I looked lol. I just got lucky there were on the correct sides.


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Ok, reviving this as we start to get close (a few months away) to my season up here….

A bit of a read but want to give as much info as possible….

I was really excited about the even larger Makai bags from WM, but, as they are still in production/development, and some soul searching over losing the additional storage space, plus the fact I have upgraded my tow vehicle… so I have pivoted a little and would be interested in hearing some advice about setups…

I have purchased a set of the upgraded WM bags, so there is the additional close to 700lbs of potential there… am working on accumulating the parts to create the venting system as many have done, as well as additional engine panel reinforcements (am working on a bit of a creative solution I will share as it comes to fruition)

Now… we did found during winterization that the centre bags were not emptying fully, and we suspect that may have also led to them not filling properly, my dealer lifted the front of the boat to fully drain, the impellers seem to be the issue, but we will not fully know until we do a lake test (more on that below)

I typically run a very small crew (myself and 5 others estimated about 750lbs), and while everyone was surfing, it surely needs optimizing with this size of a boat… I have been watching and rewatching a lot of the Wake9 stuff, and that has been so much more enlightening after having a half season on the Makai, I know understand the dynamics to the point where I feel I could make some decisions/guesses/estimations about where I need to be…

The lakes I am at the majority (90 percent) of the time are between 1000 and 1300 feet elevation….

Ok, now onto the fun stuff…

I am looking to also supplement the WM bags with lead…. Once we can we are going to lake test the boat with a lot of lead with my dealer (who has been awesome through this), but wanted to do a base setup beforehand….

First ensuring all existing bags do fill fully, so rectifying the issue with the centre bags

I was going to add 200-250lbs in each rear corner, right under the WM bags to start… who has done this? Any feedback….

Then manipulate as much lead as we need to hit the Wake9 determined settings of pitch and roll while also achieving max displacement by:

Adding lead in the storage lockers on either side ahead of the bags, adding lead to the centre of the boat (going under the track can compartment beside the batteries), and also in the very front locker of the boat…

I know some of you are using the WM bags with 1000lbs or more of lead, but your setups on board may be a bit different so I welcome any and all feedback about where you ended up and how you got there (yes I know this has been hashed and rehashed in many other threads and posts, and I have searched all my way through most if not all of them), but what a better way to spend the last days of winter right?

I was guessing I would be at:

WM Bags additional 700 (345 per side)

Under rear bags additional 500 (250 per side)

Ahead of rear bags 200 (100 per side)

Centre near batteries 300

Front bow locker 300

So about 2k more than ‘stock’…. And adjusting as/if required on the lake test….

Thoughts?

I have two opinion's to share here;

1) I personally keep my 500 lbs of lead behind driver's seat and directly opposite, in the port side space which is normally used for more leg room. You fill the boat to 100% with water ballast, with AW off, you try and get people to pick their preferred seat for the current surfer's session. Only after all of that do I start moving the lead around. Placing it under other ballast bags or gear prevents you from the flexibility that lead gives you. The worst thing that can happen is placing lead under bags and then accidentally turning AW on, and it draining your rears or bow because you forgot to turn it off or because you have 200 lbs of lead in both rears and no one wants to sit in the bow.

2) What magical place are you surfing at in AB/BC/Sask that has you in the water before mid June?

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Originally Posted by Hayden

I have two opinion's to share here;

1) I personally keep my 500 lbs of lead behind driver's seat and directly opposite, in the port side space which is normally used for more leg room. You fill the boat to 100% with water ballast, with AW off, you try and get people to pick their preferred seat for the current surfer's session. Only after all of that do I start moving the lead around. Placing it under other ballast bags or gear prevents you from the flexibility that lead gives you. The worst thing that can happen is placing lead under bags and then accidentally turning AW on, and it draining your rears or bow because you forgot to turn it off or because you have 200 lbs of lead in both rears and no one wants to sit in the bow.

2) What magical place are you surfing at in AB/BC/Sask that has you in the water before mid June?

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Thanks for the feedback….

For 1) my thought was the amount of ballast I am adding under the bags would be less than the additional that would have come with the even larger WM bags, so it would be static, and after studying and trying to gain some understanding of Ragboys (Wake9) data, the plan is to get the most displacement as possible with the weight and using AW to make those minor adjustments when people move around…. At least I think I am understanding it correctly lol

For 2) could be optimistic but hopeful to dunk into Chestermere mid May at best, hopefully not too much later depending on when the ice melts and they open the gates up a little, though I dont think anyone will have the stones to jump in and surf at that time…. then back off to Arrow and Kootenay Lake for the summer

This is just my persona opinion from my experience with my new second Max. I did the upgrade and then focused all my attention with lead on midship compartments and bow. That is what brought my wave to its best height and push. I prefer more push then height, but if I could get the best of both worlds, that is what I shoot for. Sometimes, when my crew likes to chill in the back and watch people surfing, I let out some rear bag weight so my pitch isn't as high. I run about a 7 degree pitch for my ideal push. From what I see, people do focus more attention on rear weight the most before they start the balance. Once you have a good balance, you can add a little in all the areas to get the hull deeper. Just food for thought

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Originally Posted by Dukabor

For 1) my thought was the amount of ballast I am adding under the bags would be less than the additional that would have come with the even larger WM bags, so it would be static, and after studying and trying to gain some understanding of Ragboys (Wake9) data, the plan is to get the most displacement as possible with the weight and using AW to make those minor adjustments when people move around…. At least I think I am understanding it correctly lol

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AW is an amazing tool and the new version that highlights where you need the extra weight is useful information for beginner and veteran alike. I would argue though, that once you are familar with the boat, and have gained confidence in what your boats' best wave looks/feels like, you turn it off and move people (if they're willing) or lead (if they're not) to achieve your optimals. Every time you let AW take water out of your boat the world slides one step closer to oblivion! You want 100% full at all times in my opinion. TINRFD (there is no replacement for discplacement). Wake9 has a comment in one of his earlier videos where he says exactly this, "....and we have 500 lbs of lead to move around as required".

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Originally Posted by Dukabor

For 2) could be optimistic but hopeful to dunk into Chestermere mid May at best, hopefully not too much later depending on when the ice melts and they open the gates up a little, though I dont think anyone will have the stones to jump in and surf at that time…. then back off to Arrow and Kootenay Lake for the summer

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I have never boated/surfed on any of those lakes, so this is all anecdotal but I've been told;

A) Chestermere has the same low depth issues Windermere does but Windermere is 6x the sq km. The wave you get in 10-15' of water is very different than the one you get in +20' of water. Find the topographicals for Chestermere and only surf the spots where it is 20' if possible (south end).

B) From what I've heard Arrow and Kootney are great but both have logging barges/traffic on them. Bring an extra prop!

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Originally Posted by rockymtnsurfer

This is just my persona opinion from my experience with my new second Max. I did the upgrade and then focused all my attention with lead on midship compartments and bow. That is what brought my wave to its best height and push. I prefer more push then height, but if I could get the best of both worlds, that is what I shoot for. Sometimes, when my crew likes to chill in the back and watch people surfing, I let out some rear bag weight so my pitch isn't as high. I run about a 7 degree pitch for my ideal push. From what I see, people do focus more attention on rear weight the most before they start the balance. Once you have a good balance, you can add a little in all the areas to get the hull deeper. Just food for thought

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7 degrees of pitch is incredibly low. I'm amazed that you're seeing such good results. All the power to you sir!

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Originally Posted by rockymtnsurfer

This is just my persona opinion from my experience with my new second Max. I did the upgrade and then focused all my attention with lead on midship compartments and bow. That is what brought my wave to its best height and push. I prefer more push then height, but if I could get the best of both worlds, that is what I shoot for. Sometimes, when my crew likes to chill in the back and watch people surfing, I let out some rear bag weight so my pitch isn't as high. I run about a 7 degree pitch for my ideal push. From what I see, people do focus more attention on rear weight the most before they start the balance. Once you have a good balance, you can add a little in all the areas to get the hull deeper. Just food for thought

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Thanks for the feedback, I think thats where I am at, trying to get the hull deeper and balanced at the same time, we are going to bring a lot of lead out with us on the test run and adjust as required…. I am in the position where I am able to do this with the dealer here, but then for the summer I will be 7 hours away so less of an opportunity to bring all the lead out and test…. Trying to get to the best of both worlds with the one session I guess

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Originally Posted by Hayden

....and we have 500 lbs of lead to move around as required".

I have never boated/surfed on any of those lakes, so this is all anecdotal but I've been told;

A) Chestermere has the same low depth issues Windermere does but Windermere is 6x the sq km. The wave you get in 10-15' of water is very different than the one you get in +20' of water. Find the topographicals for Chestermere and only surf the spots where it is 20' if possible (south end).

B) From what I've heard Arrow and Kootney are great but both have logging barges/traffic on them. Bring an extra prop!

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Thanks again…. For the extra lead that was going to be part of the plan to have additional available to make up for the crew at that particular day/week… my thought it, if its 500 pounds of a total 4500 (stock ballast plus 500 lead) thats about 11 percent, or 500 pounds of a total 7500 is about 6 percent so the ability for that additional 500 to be effective becomes diminished the more of the total…. I think thats a good thing, so its only minor changes…. But I could still be thinking all wrong…

And yeah, Chestermere is awful shallow, but there can be spots 25 feet deep to test, I spent 80 percent of my time on Arrow last year, and while you have to be mindful when they are hauling logs down, it is not much of an issue and it often times maxed out my depth gauge, so my thought is if we get it as good as possible on a shallow lake, the results would be amplified is my hope….

Great discussions for sure…. Thanks all

Dukabor,

The set up in shallow and deep water can be vastly different. In <20’ of water people usually slow down 1-2 miles and hour to maintain push. That set up might not work in >20’.

I run all my lead tucked away under bags. I then get the crew to move around a bit to perfect the wave, usually my kids move around on their own as they know what the correct pitch and roll “feels” like without me saying anything. Moving bags around after everyone has picked a spot to sit means bags are visible on the floor or on seat, which triggers my ocd. You might also find that you don’t have enough lead and have to get people to move anyways. Before the first rider goes I just fill the bags and set the tabs, once up to speed I use an inclinometer app to achieve my desired pitch and roll (I don’t have Autowake). It usually only takes 10-15 seconds and only need to move one person and the others to just slide forward or back a bit and we are good until we switch sides for another rider.

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Originally Posted by Tommy2slow

Dukabor,

The set up in shallow and deep water can be vastly different. In <20’ of water people usually slow down 1-2 miles and hour to maintain push. That set up might not work in >20’.

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Tommy, thanks for this, I was not really considering how different the depth would play into it…. This may take some additional research to ensure we achieve the right ‘base setup’ during this test run….

Progress update….

Installed the WM rear bags with 200lbs of lead under each bag, should be 1150is of additional rear weight now…. Now just watching the clock (or the calendar) to go for the actual lake test (if it ever stops snowing)…. My dealer has a bunch of lead in stock, so we shall see how close we get to my plan…. Still thinking 300 in the front bow compartment for sure….