that's what I was thinking tooQuote:
Originally Posted by bergermaister
Printable View
that's what I was thinking tooQuote:
Originally Posted by bergermaister
This one is with 900 in the center locker 185# driver 175# person in observer seat and 115# person on the rear deck.
http://youtu.be/u3mbNuZELQA
I have a crappy video taken from the board on my camera and some pictures I will get put up later.
And no rear ballast?
No list/lean? Hard to tell.
I'm intrigued to say the least. Our hulls are so rounded and shallow in the back that not many of the surf enhancement "add-ons" have seemed like it would be worth the hassle due to the fit and limited mounting issues.
No lean at all setting still.
As you start to move however the effect of the gate lifts one side.
http://s916.photobucket.com/user/the...12dc3.jpg.html
http://s916.photobucket.com/user/the...456c8.jpg.html
http://s916.photobucket.com/user/the...6573e.jpg.html
Um, not anything new here. It looks like the many surf gate retrofits that tons of people have done.
Basically any of the surf systems that delay convergence make it nice for an evenly weighted boat.
I went with a NSS style system because my flat hull lent itself to that.for me it's a benefot to have a blade vs a gate.
Nope not a new idea at all just adapted to my hull.
Makes for a surf able wave with no ballast of course the wake gets much better as you ad weight to a point.
The main difference in mine is no new holes in the boat.
I tested a blade style for nothing other than how they tuck away when not in use.
Couldn't make it do what I wanted.
This is a crappy video of the gate in action with no rear ballast.
The gate is as low as I can mount it witch is a bit to low as you can see by all the water coming over it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1Ar...ature=youtu.be
As we continue testing it is possible to get to much weight depending on how the gate is mounted. If you are at the point where the top of the gate is under water at speed its basically pointless. However if you can move the gate up to match then you get a huge wake with a pocket big enough for a semi.Quote:
Originally Posted by bergermaister
The ability to have the boat set level and still have a good wake is why I started to doing this.
hopefully I will have better videos in the next week or so.
^^^^ yeap. Different people have different goals and priorities. Mine is a permenent install, so holes in my hull didnt'tbother me.
Mine is a direct drive, so surfing with no ballast wouldn't happen no matter what I did. But with a vdrive, I can see no ballast surfing being realistic. I have a friend that Has a Tige 21' vdrive that I can surf with no ballast and 1 passenger on the surf side (even with driver on the nonsurf side). Certainly makes me long for a vdrive. But with a surf system, I can get vdrive quality wake on a DD.
Plus the ability to swap from regular to goofy in under 10 seconds is awesome. At some point I could add $200 in Lenco trim tab actuators and be able to swap sides instantly and open up the world of transfer tricks... but that's not a priority now.
However, the ability to weight level is a game changer and has elevated our utility and enjoyment of the boat sooooo much I would never go back to "slammed and listed". Level and less slammed is fantastic.
How are you mounting the hinged side of the gate to the hull or platform? Can't quite tell from the pics.
^ what Berg said. Is it just attached to the swim platform brackets somehow? I wonder if those are strong enough over time to handle that kind of load/force. Water at 10mph is extremely powerful. I'd be worred about stress cracks in the gel, and/or hull damage.
Yes it is mounted to thae swim platform bracket.
Flexing and stress over time is a big concern these models are prone to cracking the gel coat just from the stress of people on the platform.
Overall the mount is 22 1/2" long by 3 1/2" wide and 1/4" thick with a triangle support that goes around the platform support.
With a backer on the inside for added support that is a bit longer and wider(don't know the exact dimensions)
We have tested it up to 15mph wile deployed with no flexing what so ever. Much above that and it is no longer in the water.
The next step is to ad actuators for us as well to be able to swap sides on the fly would be great.
I would have to disagree with your statement. I was able to drop almost 2000lbs with mine and no lean.... now I would have to partially agree with the hassle part but with anything there is a rate of return for any work. My rate of return is excellent. I'm in Mason County. If you in the area come on up!Quote:
Originally Posted by bergermaister
Greg is down by me in Vancouver. Hopefully he'll have a chance to witness my NSS style system. We tend to ride fairly close to each other on the river. We definitely use the same boat launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by cornrickey
I think he just needs a little nudge.
Although if someone is used to the heavily listed/heavily weighted wave, it's possible that they aren't willing to give up that little bit extra that they've gotten used to from the whole bunch of extra weight needed to realize that gain.
For you and I, I think we're both willing to accept a minor tradeoff for a huge increase in overall amount of user friendliness of the boat.
Disagree with which part ? LOL the 'not' worth it?
I'd still like to try something for the delayed convergence but I'm not willing to turn my transom into swiss cheese experimenting. Tie-ing into the platform brackets would be great, however I do already have the spider cracks 86century mentioned.
I've watched your surfgate vids both here and on the Supra forum thread. Guess I'd like to see it before I commit to anything.
Would love to see more detailed or closeup shots of these attachment points of your setup.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k...v-surfgate.jpg
Well, someone's gotta have the stones to go all in and make the leap! What pushed me over the edge was a guy with a Malibu that turned my vision for an NSS retrofit into a reality. I had a TON of naysayers, but I love my system and would never go back.Quote:
Originally Posted by bergermaister
And mine got a LOT of swiss cheese!!! I think like 9 holes per side. Even more holes lately when you factor in transom lights!
I'm not sure if you are asking this of me but those aren't mine in your picture. This video shows them in detail. I made it for a guy who was interested in then a while back. I have changed the latch much for the flap and how if locks when retractedQuote:
Originally Posted by bergermaister
http://Wake Gate Detail: <a href="ht...Z1n6Ih8W0o</a>
Not a problem. The mount is really crude.
I fabbed it up from some scrap steel a barn door hinge and a turn buckle from tractor supply.
That was directed at 86Century-
I'd want to keep it simple and figure out a quick release pin or something to remove the gate vs just folding it in. I've drawn it up a few times but that's as far as it's gone. I dream up a lot of mods that never make it off paper; dual T-1200 fills per bag, LED rub rails, all kinds of crap.
I can't seem to figure out a faster method than a synch strap. Takes about 30 seconds
I will get you those pictures this evening.
My plan is to replace the pin in the hinge with something removable at some point not sure yet on how I want to do the turnbuckle.
Sorry it took so long. Remember this is a rough prototype so please keep don't be to hard on the looks. And that my hull looks like crap.
http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfdccbced.jpg
http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps32032217.jpg
Looks like you guys are spending a lot of time on these projects. I am thinking about doing something similar to the ones in the Malibu forum. I have a 07 LSV and I would really like to have the trim tab setup like the Swell system. Does anyone know if that is also mounted to the swim platform? I was thinking that I could use it as a trim tab and a wake enhancement device for surfing. What are your thoughts?
The tabs mount to the transom near bottom.
Actuators give a cool factor for sure. But with them comes some challenges. If you follow the guys on the Malibu forum there is a guy who made some amazing electronics to control them. Without the means to index the angle everything then adjust it when needed the system would be ineffective. Retracting then when not surfing (turning back around to pick the survey up after falls) then using a manual switch to put them out again wouldn't work. The effects of the gates out whole turning is minimal compared to the challenges of fixing it. The other issue being permanent. I wanted something that is really removed and leaves no sign it was there. When I installed my leds I routed the wire through my bilge plug so I didn't have to put a unnecessary hole in my boat. Hope that helps
Whereas I had no problems with my surf system being permanent. I know I won't keep my boat forever, and I know that my permanent surf system that's on my boat will absolutely add value to the boat and will be a selling feature when the time comes to move on. But I'm also in a unique position. I started with one of the most attractive/sought after "budget" direct drive wake boats and improved on it so it goes from throwing a flat slalom wake all the way up to throwing a great surf wave that drives fantastic despite the 2000 pounds of weight. I don't see any reason someone in my "target audience" wouldn't want that.Quote:
Originally Posted by cornrickey
Don't get me wrong, cornrickey's approach will appeal to a TON of people that want to "leave no trace". And he was ABSOLUTELY one of the pioneers of retrofitting surf systems and inspired me a TON. I'm just not one of those people who cares about bringing my boat back to "stock". I'll mod my boat and be stoked that it'll make it more attractive to the next buyer.
Did you weld that to the factory platform bracket or fab up a new one? I guess I'm having trouble envisioning the before and after.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86century
Rock on Brother!Quote:
Originally Posted by trayson
My first motivation was I didn't know how this whole thing was going to work so out had to be removable. Additionally it made for easy modifications on the water. My thought was to sell them which I have a couple sets but bring that I form them to the stern out requires the same hull (I use my boat for mock up or getting the actual boat in my shop. As of now and how I'm mortising the hinges into the material (3/4 hdpe) they are taking me 4 days for a set materials are around $150 but in using 5k in machinery.
Do you have any updates on this system, this is something that I have been looking to do. I would love to see how it went and if you have any video. Even though these are just trim tabs it seems like they would work out pretty well, I lookes at the supra swell system and they are using very similar actuators but just a different gate at the bottom. This may be a new winter project for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJR63
No, it is bolted on using the platform bracket bolts.Quote:
Originally Posted by bergermaister
MJR63 do you have any updates of how the trim tab worked on your boat, PLEASE show us
Anyone ever set up trim tabs on their boat for surfing? I am really interested to see how this went.
I am suppose to go out behind an mastercraft x10 that has tabs today. I plan on taking pics and trying to convert something over to my 21v this winter.
Take a look at MB's new surf tabs on their 2015's. It is a complete system that just bolts on. It is a copy of Supra's SWELL in a smaller package.
Just took a look at it, it looks awesome. I am still wishing that I knew if regular tabs would work
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadjitsu1
I think someone on here did regular tabs...
I went and Surfed behind an x10 this last weekend and and I was impressed with the wake. Here is a pic of the tab they are using. the back edge is bent down
I am thinking of trying the Lenco 12"x9" tabs. 12" long 9" wide and the indicator tactile switch kit so I know where each tab is like what the guy had shown in the first part of the thread. I would power this switch with an extra rocker switch on my panel (when the controller loses power it automatic bring the tabs to the full up position.
I was thinking I would try them stock out of the box if that was not good enough I would try and re-shape them later.
Since our season is pretty much over I was going to wait till black Friday or cyber Monday to try and order them. maybe get a little better deal on them.
Mastercraft is using Lenco tabs so I thought about calling Lenco saying I messed my tabs up on my x10 and see they would sell me them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergermaister
Yews my buddies X45 use's these tabs to clean the lip of the boarding wake, side to side so its always clean. certainly helps the surf wave but because the boat is so big it still need leaned weight.
Love to see those pics and video of the tab Moomba install.
I agree, using the trim tabs is the route I've been looking into. I believe there is a module that retracts or adjust the tabs based on speed. Something like that may work. The effort that has been done to design the removable system is great. A lot of thought has been put into that. For me I want something more permanent.
I would like to also see the standard old trim tabs in action, I think the Mastercraft tabs are cool but I'm sure they spent a long time trying to figure out the exact shape they needed to make the wake just perfect. I dont have any brakes or shears to be able to cut metal like that and bend it.
I have been looking at the NEW MB Switch and the Supra swell and honestly think that is the best option. There is absolutley NO reason why you couldn't use the lenco switch with led indicators to control those manually. The excuse that the swell system wont work on a Moomba because it ties into the integrated display is ridiculous, those are just lenco electric actuators.
I think the Swell design would offer two benefits, 1. it would allow you to switch sides without switching ballast. 2. you would be able to trim the back of the boat for uneven weight (people and gear).
I cant tell you how many times I have to mess around with moving water and people just to get a clean wakeboard wake, total pain in the rear. A trim tab / wakesurf fin would be the exact solution