Tow Vehicle

[Holdmybeer]

Anyone have a Dodge Durango SRT? Contemplating trading in my Tahoe...

8700 tow capacity on a 6 person people mover that runs 0-60 in 4.6 sec. Figure the clock is ticking on large displacement V8 composted dinosaur burners, so might as well have some fun...

Fully loaded Kaiyen with gear, gas, spare tire, etc. is around 6500# or less. Add 500lbs of lead for future and you are looking at 7000#. Durango will certainly have the power my only worry would be the tongue weight pushing down on it. Still a "mid-size" suv frame but at least it is once again a frame based suv (2021) and not uni-body.

You aren;t towing 100% of the time so yes it would handle your current toy.

[bergermaister]

Might handle it if you don't mind being a squatter. Most of the smaller V8 SUVs do fine up to 5,000 towing, then they suggest a weight distribution for anything over that. My old MobV will squat our 2020 Armada Platinum Elite just a little but forget about it with anything heavier. It's rated for 8,500. My cargo trailer has some tongue weight and will put that sucker on the fender wells with just the ball even with the air bag support when loaded to about 7,000. WDH also squats it some but not unbearable...

https://i.imgur.com/bQv7ila.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uuuvuOx.jpg

[rhouse181]

Yea the squat is what I’m worried about… the load leveling airbags in the Tahoe are pretty luxurious.

There are some TFL Trucking videos on YouTube where they put the Durango SRT up against a Tahoe towing a 7k formula vee and a Raptor during their tow gauntlet test. Both videos had some squat, but they couldn’t find much else to complain about besides the lack of an integrated brake controller.

[Holdmybeer]

We towed our Mojo loaded up, 1/2 tank of gas, people, dogs, etc. and found out that we blew a rear air shock after getting to Norris. Had no idea how long it was bad, but after replacing both air shock in the rear, wife and I both had to adjust the memory mirrors and gas mileage went back up. It doesn't squat at all since replacing the shocks.

I'm sure you could add helper to the Durango. Again, you are only towing heavy 5-10% of the vehicle's life. I would rather enjoy the ride the other 90-95% of the time and be able to handle the boat when needed.

[Zog]

We haul our 2016 Mojo with a 2013 Durango 5.7 Hemi rated at 7200 lbs, so a bit smaller than what you are considering. It has automatic load leveling rear suspension so it doesn't squat at all. Make sure if you go with the Durango that you specify the Class IV tow package and get the improved suspension.

[daltong]

Not towing the New Supra yet but here's my Tow pig pulling the 06 SANTE 🤤

Love the Dirtymax but seriously thinking about getting into an F350 limited in the next year or so, wife wants a 5th wheel toy hauler 😭

29980

[daltong]

We haul our 2016 Mojo with a 2013 Durango 5.7 Hemi rated at 7200 lbs, so a bit smaller than what you are considering. It has automatic load leveling rear suspension so it doesn't squat at all. Make sure if you go with the Durango that you specify the Class IV tow package and get the improved suspension.



Looking at your sig I see you have a houseboat on Powell, do you ever rent it out during the summer months? We are from AZ but we PCS'd to CO last year and I want to take a week or so trip to Powell and rent a house boat mid/end of June next year.

[Holdmybeer]

Looking at your sig I see you have a houseboat on Powell, do you ever rent it out during the summer months? We are from AZ but we PCS'd to CO last year and I want to take a week or so trip to Powell and rent a house boat mid/end of June next year.

Not to be a downer, but at this rate Powell might not have water by next year.
Everyone better hope for a wet and heavy snowfall winter in the west. Just read they shut down another large boat ramp last week.

[sandm]

this was the lake that robert used to do the original polar bear on. was there in '12. it's crazy that the lake is about empty. guy that bought our tige lives here. have wondered if he is even able to use it now. what's left of the lake is littered with houseboats...
https://www.cnn.com/videos/weather/2021/08/04/lake-oroville-california-drought-power-plant-orig-jk.cnn

[daltong]

Not to be a downer, but at this rate Powell might not have water by next year.
Everyone better hope for a wet and heavy snowfall winter in the west. Just read they shut down another large boat ramp last week.

We have been getting hammered in CO this summer with rain, and its looking to be a wet winter. Not being a downer at all, it is what it is; Powell has always been "Dangerously Low" but this is a new level for sure. It doesn't phase me as much though being that I am AZ born and raised, heard it all my life...

hopefully we get a ton of precipitation between now and then

[Holdmybeer]

We have been getting hammered in CO this summer with rain, and its looking to be a wet winter. Not being a downer at all, it is what it is; Powell has always been "Dangerously Low" but this is a new level for sure. It doesn't phase me as much though being that I am AZ born and raised, heard it all my life...

hopefully we get a ton of precipitation between now and then

I'm with you. I have family in CO and Southern Cali. Both have been dealing with water "issues" from the on-goin drought for years.

Here in Ohio we have a couple months that might be "dry" but that happens right in the middle of the summer (i.e. right now), so perfect for boating season. It just kills me seeing the photos. Never boated those lakes, but been to Mead and the dam a few times and cannot believe the low level.

[RC_Hinojosa]

I'm with you. I have family in CO and Southern Cali. Both have been dealing with water "issues" from the on-goin drought for years.

Here in Ohio we have a couple months that might be "dry" but that happens right in the middle of the summer (i.e. right now), so perfect for boating season. It just kills me seeing the photos. Never boated those lakes, but been to Mead and the dam a few times and cannot believe the low level.Us Texan's live in that perfect Venn diagram nestled right between 'Moses flooding' & 'inner circle of Hades'... [emoji28]

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[Holdmybeer]

Us Texan's live in that perfect Venn diagram nestled right between 'Moses flooding' & 'inner circle of Hades'... [emoji28]

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Yeah, my friends in San Antonio always say its that dry heat. Houston has all the humidity.....lol

I would love to have a longer boating season for sure, but I would be the dumb northerner on the lake surfing on Thanksgiving weekend for the first couple years until I adjusted.

[2in2out]

Us Texan's live in that perfect Venn diagram nestled right between 'Moses flooding' & 'inner circle of Hades'... [emoji28]

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Been in Austin the last couple of days, and the weather here has been questionable for boating.

Last time we lived there it rained almost everyday during the summer, and our yard flooded once a week, and pool overflowed.

Since I am leaving the Sierra Nevada’s it should snow nicely this year. I bought a ski pass last year, and the year before, so I own the drought.

With our move to Round Rock prepare for Flood or fire. I tend to have the center of said Venn over my head.


Currently boatless

[RC_Hinojosa]

Yeah, my friends in San Antonio always say its that dry heat. Houston has all the humidity.....lol

I would love to have a longer boating season for sure, but I would be the dumb northerner on the lake surfing on Thanksgiving weekend for the first couple years until I adjusted.

No shade thrown for surfing past Thanksgiving...mainly respect since most of us are sissies, used to bath tub temps and stop when thin wetsuits are needed [emoji28]

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[Holdmybeer]

No shade thrown for surfing past Thanksgiving...mainly respect since most of us are sissies, used to bath tub temps and stop when thin wetsuits are needed [emoji28]

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Yeah...coldest I ever made it was Memorial day weekend ~15yrs ago.....Air temp - 92 (rarity for that early) but water temp - 62.....don't own wetsuits so we just tried not to eat it.....I'm older now and that would be a big HELLA NAH anymore.

[Zog]

Looking at your sig I see you have a houseboat on Powell, do you ever rent it out during the summer months? We are from AZ but we PCS'd to CO last year and I want to take a week or so trip to Powell and rent a house boat mid/end of June next year.

Private owners renting boats gets you kicked off the lake, losing your slip, and blackballing your boat from even launching for 20 years. You have to go through Aramark for all rentals. I would suggest reserving early, since they disappear quickly.

[daltong]

I'm with you. I have family in CO and Southern Cali. Both have been dealing with water "issues" from the on-goin drought for years.

Here in Ohio we have a couple months that might be "dry" but that happens right in the middle of the summer (i.e. right now), so perfect for boating season. It just kills me seeing the photos. Never boated those lakes, but been to Mead and the dam a few times and cannot believe the low level.

Lake mead, Rosevelt, canyon, saguaro have been low my entire life so I guess I'm just numb to it lol. Not THIS low but still low, eb and flows; the levels will raise in a season or two.

[daltong]

Private owners renting boats gets you kicked off the lake, losing your slip, and blackballing your boat from even launching for 20 years. You have to go through Aramark for all rentals. I would suggest reserving early, since they disappear quickly.


Wow I had no idea, that's wild.

[HFarr]

Just came across this. I didn't realize the lakes were that crazy low. All blame seems to be on snowfall. I would also question WHERE all the water is going. Any wasteful outflows add up over time. Sort of like the slow leak that nobody thinks is bad until you look at how much water it has put out over time.

https://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/travel/news/2021/08/06/lake-powell-water-level-2021-drought-megadrought-photos-page-arizona-reservoir/5510020001/

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[larry_arizona]

Just came across this. I didn't realize the lakes were that crazy low. All blame seems to be on snowfall. I would also question WHERE all the water is going. Any wasteful outflows add up over time. Sort of like the slow leak that nobody thinks is bad until you look at how much water it has put out over time.

https://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/travel/news/2021/08/06/lake-powell-water-level-2021-drought-megadrought-photos-page-arizona-reservoir/5510020001/

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Yes low snowfall is partially to blame but I would argue that Powell and mead were never intended to handle 40 million people and the agricultural industry that is overwhelming it.

Demand clearly is outpacing supply.


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[daltong]

Just came across this. I didn't realize the lakes were that crazy low. All blame seems to be on snowfall. I would also question WHERE all the water is going. Any wasteful outflows add up over time. Sort of like the slow leak that nobody thinks is bad until you look at how much water it has put out over time.

https://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/travel/news/2021/08/06/lake-powell-water-level-2021-drought-megadrought-photos-page-arizona-reservoir/5510020001/

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The crazy thing is, we had a crazy year of snowfall here in CO. The temp hit -25 degrees a few nights in late December/early January. The mountains got hit pretty hard.

[Zog]

Just came across this. I didn't realize the lakes were that crazy low. All blame seems to be on snowfall. I would also question WHERE all the water is going. Any wasteful outflows add up over time. Sort of like the slow leak that nobody thinks is bad until you look at how much water it has put out over time.

https://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/travel/news/2021/08/06/lake-powell-water-level-2021-drought-megadrought-photos-page-arizona-reservoir/5510020001/

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This is all a very complicated problem that resulted from the Colorado River Compact in the 1920s that resulted in development of Hoover Dam and Glen Canyon Dam. The Colorado River states are divided into upper basin (Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico) and lower basin (Arizona, Nevada, California, Mexico) states. About half the water that was thought to come from the Colorado was allocated to the lower basin states and the other half to the upper basin, with surpluses given to the upper basin. The lower basin was basically guaranteed their share as a result of the surpluses going to the upper basin. As a result, the full lower basin share must be delivered from the upper basin each year, with Lake Powell swinging to deliver the water. It doesn't matter that the river hasn't delivered anywhere near the total allocated flow in 17 of the past 20 years, nor that the inflow this year is expected to be below the lower basin allocation, they still get what they are guaranteed under the compact. The system is working as intended and it doesn't matter how many people or how much agriculture has grown over the past nearly 100 years, the allocation remains the same.

However, recreation is the 4th (at best) priority for the lake management, meaning those of us with boats on the lake get to adjust to perpetually changing conditions every single time we go. Last year (2020) the lake level was at 3605 feet during our trip and this year it was at 3552 during our trip. The big difference between this year and last was in the marinas and boat launches. We sold out of one houseboat and bought into another across the lake in the deepest boat launch in the lake. We were notified 2 days before our trip that the launch ramp was going to close during the middle of our trip, so we would need to use the temporary launches on the other side of the lake, meaning there is no boat ramp on the lake operating without temporary provisions. Additionally, the gas dock on our marina is out of service, since the cove it sits in is now high and dry. Additionally, people used to passing through certain areas during high water at high speed have been shocked to find subsurface pinnacles with their propellers in areas they think are in the middle of the deepest water. It is a dangerous lake when you pretend to know all the subsurface features.

The current situation strongly results from a) generally low water levels dating back to the start of this drought in 2003, b) lack of spring precipitation in 2020 after a record winter snowfall, leaving weaker runoff than expected, c) no monsoonal flow in the summer of 2020, leaving soils extremely dry going into winter, d) abysmal snowpack in winter 2020/21, with snowpack at less than 80% of average in most places, and e) another poor spring for precipitation. The meager snowmelt was absorbed by the dry soils, leaving essentially 3-10% of the typical runoff into most of the reservoirs in the upper Colorado Basin. The current monsoonal flow is helping to set up improvement for next year, but until then, we are potentially looking at failure of power generation on Glen Canyon within the next 3-4 months.

[sandm]

Its all over the west. Lucky peak in boise typically starts drawdowns after labor day. Lake is 2 months ahead and all the day use docks are dry...
The reservoir fills to the top every year but this year emptied MUCH quicker.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210809/b005c5d4d5916186d38b6262e037d65f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210809/68b088be05926c5b9ece54580ba11300.jpg

[2in2out]

This is all a very complicated problem that resulted from the Colorado River Compact in the 1920s that resulted in development of Hoover Dam and Glen Canyon Dam. The Colorado River states are divided into upper basin (Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico) and lower basin (Arizona, Nevada, California, Mexico) states. About half the water that was thought to come from the Colorado was allocated to the lower basin states and the other half to the upper basin, with surpluses given to the upper basin. The lower basin was basically guaranteed their share as a result of the surpluses going to the upper basin. As a result, the full lower basin share must be delivered from the upper basin each year, with Lake Powell swinging to deliver the water. It doesn't matter that the river hasn't delivered anywhere near the total allocated flow in 17 of the past 20 years, nor that the inflow this year is expected to be below the lower basin allocation, they still get what they are guaranteed under the compact. The system is working as intended and it doesn't matter how many people or how much agriculture has grown over the past nearly 100 years, the allocation remains the same.

However, recreation is the 4th (at best) priority for the lake management, meaning those of us with boats on the lake get to adjust to perpetually changing conditions every single time we go. Last year (2020) the lake level was at 3605 feet during our trip and this year it was at 3552 during our trip. The big difference between this year and last was in the marinas and boat launches. We sold out of one houseboat and bought into another across the lake in the deepest boat launch in the lake. We were notified 2 days before our trip that the launch ramp was going to close during the middle of our trip, so we would need to use the temporary launches on the other side of the lake, meaning there is no boat ramp on the lake operating without temporary provisions. Additionally, the gas dock on our marina is out of service, since the cove it sits in is now high and dry. Additionally, people used to passing through certain areas during high water at high speed have been shocked to find subsurface pinnacles with their propellers in areas they think are in the middle of the deepest water. It is a dangerous lake when you pretend to know all the subsurface features.

The current situation strongly results from a) generally low water levels dating back to the start of this drought in 2003, b) lack of spring precipitation in 2020 after a record winter snowfall, leaving weaker runoff than expected, c) no monsoonal flow in the summer of 2020, leaving soils extremely dry going into winter, d) abysmal snowpack in winter 2020/21, with snowpack at less than 80% of average in most places, and e) another poor spring for precipitation. The meager snowmelt was absorbed by the dry soils, leaving essentially 3-10% of the typical runoff into most of the reservoirs in the upper Colorado Basin. The current monsoonal flow is helping to set up improvement for next year, but until then, we are potentially looking at failure of power generation on Glen Canyon within the next 3-4 months.

That is an excellent synopsis Zog, but still only brushes on the complexities in the river system management. Concurrent lawsuits are hamstringing the many different agencies involved in management of the resource.

As these large bodies of water start to dry the influences on the micro and macro climates will be difficult to predict. History shows that conditions like this can be persistent. Tree ring studies in Arizona, presence of submerged trees in glacial lakes in the sierras, and sediment studies in alkali layers correlate to a 300+ year period from ~1250 to ~1600 AD of persistent and catastrophic drought in the west absent the modern day population.

By building capacity via reservoirs, a complacent and entitled view of water as a constant has become a standard of society. The high and southern deserts were inhospitable until the canyon projects of the new deal. While engineering marvels, the truth is that they are frail and no match for nature, and the frailty only becomes visible when there is a significant economic impact. We as boaters are a small slice in the pie of that economy, and really, minimally affected, considering 1st world problems and all.


Currently boatless

[Zog]

It truly is a complicated mess. The compact has been opened a number of times to accommodate different projects (Like CAP) and Utah is trying to add additional uses with the Lake Powell pipeline. I was reading about Lake Lahontan and was surprised to see that there has been little difference in rainfall between then and now, but the evapotranspiration rate has increased markedly due to increased temperatures and dryer airflow, preventing water from accumulating and filling the basin. To think just 13,000 years ago Lake Bonneville covered most of the Great Basin and where I sit today was under 400 feet of water.

Our reliance on reservoirs has improved reliability of water delivery immensely, but as you note has led to entitlement regarding water availability. Simply put, the Imperial Valley (and other arid areas) should not be a big agricultural area and irrigation should be used to supplement in times of drought and to enhance borderline agricultural areas, not expand agriculture to areas that are not well suited at all.

Still, these reservoirs are a miracle to those of us who float them. Unfortunately, here in Utah we are losing boat launches almost daily. The reservoir we have used the most has been closed to launches for over a month. My water purveyor is stopping irrigation water delivery about 1.5 months early in order to preserve drinking water reserves for next year. I really hope we aren't looking at a 300+ year drought!

[HFarr]

Wow! This topic has really sparked some good philosophy! And to think it all started with a truck.[emoji1]

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[HFarr]

By the way,not that this helps at all, but we are getting hammered with rain almost every day in Georgia. I always said their should be a huge auqaduc running East-West across the country to capitalize on transferring excess rain water and flooding to parts of the country where needed. Maybe that could be added to the new Infrastructure Bill!

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[larry_arizona]

By the way,not that this helps at all, but we are getting hammered with rain almost every day in Georgia. I always said their should be a huge auqaduc running East-West across the country to capitalize on transferring excess rain water and flooding to parts of the country where needed. Maybe that could be added to the new Infrastructure Bill!

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You know how many plans their have been to tap into the Great Lakes?


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[Zog]

You know how many plans their have been to tap into the Great Lakes?


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Add them to the plans to transfer Columbia River water to California, Mississippi River water to Colorado, etc., etc.

Considering the Lake Powell pipeline is currently projected at $2B for a pipeline not even 200 miles long (though with 5 massive pump stations), what do you think a 1500 mile long pipeline that lifts water 3,000 feet in elevation would run?

[larry_arizona]

Build wind and solar fields out west…….kidding

But seriously should start plans on some natural gas powered generators ASAP or the Texas outage is going to look like child’s play.


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[2in2out]

Add them to the plans to transfer Columbia River water to California, Mississippi River water to Colorado, etc., etc.

Considering the Lake Powell pipeline is currently projected at $2B for a pipeline not even 200 miles long (though with 5 massive pump stations), what do you think a 1500 mile long pipeline that lifts water 3,000 feet in elevation would run?

I’ve recently been pondering why no engineers have looked towards history for a solution.

Part of the drought problem in the west has been alterations in local ecosystems from water diversion projects. Nearest to me are the Newlands Project (diverting the Truckee River from Pyramid Lake and the dry Winnemucca Lake), the LA aqueduct robbing water from Mono Lake and the now dry Owens Lake, and the Stillwater preserve of the Carson Sink.

All of these places historically had significant more water until human intervention in the 1920-30’s. These water sources influenced local and eastward weather patterns into the Great Basin and western front of the Rockies, by allowing for lake effect snowfalls, increased evaporative recharge during monsoonal flows, and greater vegetative humidification reserves.

Even the modifications to the Sac, Mokuleme, and Consummes River Deltas in the California Central Valley have altered weather patterns and rainfall amounts from summer monsoonal flows.

So, looking back at history, there is a currently functioning highly efficient means of moving large volumes of water that was engineered in the 1860’s by Dr D. M. Geiger. The Virginia City flume.

This flume is powered only by gravity. It has been repaired several times since it was initially built, and has supplied Virginia City with water from Marlette Lake near Lake Tahoe reliably since.

It is a 47 mile long gravity siphon. Why we couldn’t do the same with sea water is beyond me. We have the technology to be able to have synchronized valves to resist the initial head pressures and monitor suction. The salinity of most of the desert areas that were drained is similar to sea water, and desalination can be accomplished with dilution from other sources. A flow of 1000 gpm into the Owens Valley could greatly improve snowpack in the high Uintas.


Making my new SA build come true!!!

[HFarr]

LOL! You guys are awesome! Being an engineer, I am loving this! Gimme a bit to think and I'm gonna poke y'all with another stick to get you two going some more![emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

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[HFarr]

Definitely can't say y'all haven't done your research!

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[sandm]

Our reliance on reservoirs has improved reliability of water delivery immensely, but as you note has led to entitlement regarding water availability. Simply put, the Imperial Valley (and other arid areas) should not be a big agricultural area and irrigation should be used to supplement in times of drought and to enhance borderline agricultural areas, not expand agriculture to areas that are not well suited at all.


I would say that if you go back in ancient history, civilization has figured out ways to divert/store water to allow man to live in areas otherwise uninhabitable and grow crops in areas that are unfeasable. mead/powell are doing exactly what part of their plan was in that it allows unfertile areas to be watered/grow crops and man to live in the desert. the unintended byproduct(as you have mentioned in the past) are that water levels are dropping to a point that power generation and recreation are struggling but they are still providing one of their intended results- water for man.
the issue and again as you have pointed out are that we have overpromised the water shares and mother nature has underdelivered and lawyers say farmers get water.

what I struggle with here: las vegas puts 99% of all water drawn out of mead for human consumption/use from your household back into mead again as treated/filtered water but only 60% of outside use(landscaping/pools/grass/carwash) water is recaptured and returned. with an average of 5000 people/month still moving to the valley and EVERYONE wanting pools/lush landscaping and driving new cars that they wash weekly, that's driving a TON of waste here and sure it's an issue in arizona/cali as well. our last 2 houses here had pools. I averaged 4-6" per week of evaporation from end of may to mid september. imagine that across all the pools here in vegas with more online every day-and lets not talk infinity edge pools and evaporation when it's 110 out.... I can see down into my neighbor's pool from our back yard. they have used it a total of 3 days this year but are adding water every week to keep it full. neighbor on the other side hasn't been in his in 5 years(per his account) but he still keeps it full, heated and powered.
we had pools from '18 to '20 and used them a total of 6 times in 2 years but still had to fill them weekly.

lots of moving parts to water conservation but so far seems everyone is pointing the finger at agriculture. laughlin/bullhead city post daily water flow from mead/davis dam and flows increase during the day for power generation from all the ac's. more wind/solar would help reduce that load and allow less water flow for power. hefty water use prices for people with pools would sure change the tune on them.

zog, keep posting up facts on powell. I have loved reading them in the past and visiting page earlier this year helped me put a lot of what you have written into perspective... it is a BEAUTIFUL place and will be sad if it goes.

[larry_arizona]

I know this thread has taken a detour from tow vehicles, but Powell is a fascinating topic. I have questions…..lol

Let’s start a Powell thread and restore the tow thread.


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[Holdmybeer]

Speaking of tow vehicles.
Since so many of you work in the automotive industry like myself, if anyone knows where I can get around 1000 Allison transmission TCUs it would help keep us working for another 2 weeks.....lol

[Josh828]

Speaking of tow vehicles I went a direction I didnt think I ever would be able to again...

Just picked up a 2007 Classic LBZ Duramax SLT on the cheap.
Its super rough but should get the job done for now and go under the knife this winter.
Its currently at the detailer for the inside to get an idea if its going to come clean or be replaced.

Later it will be getting completely repainted. Few bits of body work nothing bad though
Then engine will be gone through and built up to about 450whp along with all the drive parts
I had a 05 LLY duramax and it came up I first tuned it 8 years ago to the day so this is bringing back memories.

Truck will be a good farm truck and pull the boat. For my long distance driver though probably look back into something fun like a Audi S8 or ctsV

[cucv]

We had guests to the lake last weekend who love their Teslas. Towed there new boat to the lake and had a great weekend. They took off Sunday night and about 20 miles south on their way home there is a long hill on the highway they got to drive down on the way to the lake but really zapped the battery on the way home. They got off the highway and found a place to ditch the boat and proceeded to a fast charging station. All the chargers where broken. They made it to a slow charging station with 3% power. After a bit they realized it would take them all night to get the boat home so they called to see if we could help. I had planned to work from the lake on Monday but my wife was heading home anyway. I had to laugh when they asked if the Suburban could handle the load. I know it's only a 5.3...lol. Super proud of my wife towing it home 50 mile. She's been in training for years just hasn't taken the reigns on her own.


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[Zog]

I would love to get an electric truck to tow with, but am really concerned about the legs it would have and lack of charging infrastructure on the way to/from Lake Powell. They advertise the Cybertruck with 500+ miles range, but the closest take in is 300+ miles from home and that doesn't account for the expected range drop due to towing. If there were charging infrastructure at the lake where I could plug in after launching the boat, it might be feasible, but there isn't power available for much of anything at the lake since they generate all power onsite. Until something comes along to solve that problem, we will have to make do with big engined trucks and SUVs.

[cucv]

Our friends are getting about 1/3 normal range towing the boat or camper in the white mountains with the Tesla. They enjoy planning trips around charging stops and this was the first time where they got stuck by the lack of infrastructure.

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[Holdmybeer]

I assume they are towing with a model X since everything else would not tow much and be too low to the ground. If they were close to the 5000# mark on their boat, they are lucky to pull 100 miles on flat ground. Mountain should be killing their range. Again if this is a lighter boat then a little more.

That new Hummer suv looks intriguing but the price tag is crazy and the range sucks if you really think about it.

The new Lightining appears to be a winner but not enough info to make a good decision. I need 350 miles towing 8k in Tennessee terrain to convert from dinosaur liquid.

[larry_arizona]

No OEM with an EV truck coming will talk about towing range, it’s a deal killer and bad marketing to be honest about the liability. As stated above, expect 60-70% range loss.

Then start looking at charge stations or super chargers…….99% are not set up to handle a truck and trailer.

So like the example above…..dump boat off somewhere, go charge and go back and get trailer.


Best case let’s say you get 150-200 miles range with towing a boat……how many charges would you tolerate at 45min-90min plus unhooking boat each time? I wouldn’t tolerate 1x.

Heads up, most EV makers are recommending not letting batteries get under 10% or charge greater than 90% thus further limiting range.

Give me a 5min refuel and 350 mile range all day every day.

EV apologists will claim they love the adventure and claim my arguements are just F.U.D, but no way am I ok with adding 4-5 hours to a 600 mile towing trip each way.


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[Zog]

The only way I see it working would be on my closest lake (30 miles away). No way to haul anything long distances. Then it really becomes a show pony, not useful for anything but the commute and occasional short distance tows or for a quick camping trip on a dirt road. No way would I tolerate the charges. I spoke to someone who said they treat the charges as part of the trip, taking a moment to break up the drive with a moment to eat a sit down lunch. I don't drive that way.

I'm with you on the 5 minute fill larry.

[larry_arizona]

The only way I see it working would be on my closest lake (30 miles away). No way to haul anything long distances. Then it really becomes a show pony, not useful for anything but the commute and occasional short distance tows or for a quick camping trip on a dirt road. No way would I tolerate the charges. I spoke to someone who said they treat the charges as part of the trip, taking a moment to break up the drive with a moment to eat a sit down lunch. I don't drive that way.

I'm with you on the 5 minute fill larry.

Who can stop eat and smell the roses 4-5 times on 600 mile trip.

It’s all part of trying to sell the EV life. Nobody I know is truly embracing the slow trip to taking vacations.

They may say it, but they truly hate it.


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[Holdmybeer]

My vacation is precious and not replaceable. The point is to get to the spot and start enjoying it not spend a day driving and a day smelling roses. 2 days wasted driving is bad enough now buy and EV and make it 4....no thanks...not yet

[sandm]

my neighbor behind me has a deposit on a new rivian truck. I'm probably as excited as he is to get it as I know I'll get a ride in it. gettin the launch edition. he did say he's not selling his avalanche for 6 months until he figures out if electric is for him. he also has a 2021 c8 so doesn't really have anything good for long distance trips.. c8 is NOT comfortable imo...

[larry_arizona]

my neighbor behind me has a deposit on a new rivian truck. I'm probably as excited as he is to get it as I know I'll get a ride in it. gettin the launch edition. he did say he's not selling his avalanche for 6 months until he figures out if electric is for him. he also has a 2021 c8 so doesn't really have anything good for long distance trips.. c8 is NOT comfortable imo...

What is he going to tow with the Rivian?

They were just delayed a bit due to semi conductors.


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[sandm]

he's not towing anything. he's in his late70's. it's a daily driver for he and his wife. vette is his weekend car although he's had it 8 months and has 7k on the clock.

talked to him at cars and coffee last weekend and he said the rivian was originally an august 1 delivery but now he's being told october 1. he said he'll be happy if it's this year. his brother ordered a launch edition as well. iirc 80k for the truck.
he's a car guy through and through(won the silver state classic in his speed class with his old c6 vette a few years ago) so not sure why he picked rivian knowing ford has a pretty cool ev in the lightning and betting it'll be a longer term better ride but I get a sense he's a ford hater :)

[larry_arizona]

The Rivian truck and suv are really cool.

Fast too.

We have content in both and it’s more of a lifestyle truck for outdoorsy types, whereas the lightning is more of a normal mainstream pick up.


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[2in2out]

The EV truck question has gone around and around in my circles. As my daily driver it would be great! I don’t have payload or towing most days.

But when it comes to recreation time, where I used to hunt you can’t even find a power line. I’d have to drag my 3k genny with me to go on a day long chukar hunt. With no cell service there is too much uncertainty.

Now, I would love the quiet to get into deer hunting spots, or driving the canyons looking for birds. Definite advantage there.

When we would go camping, I would have to tow the boat 37 miles with 3000 ft elevation gain, launch boat, wife drives boat to cove, I meet here there, get boat moored, head back to house to pick up trailer, and tow to campsite with no hook-ups. Add several 14 mile trips into Truckee, lather, rinse, repeat. No EVT is going to handle that without running the 3k genny for an afternoon charge.

Nautique’s EV G23 would be essentially useless in this environment as well. The Tahoe NF is years behind in replacing fire rings and tables at camp sites let alone putting in any electrical infrastructure, and the Dept of Reclamation isn’t going to foot that bill.

I love the idea of an EV, but in reality I think we need to be looking at Hydrogen hybrid (EV with hydrogen IC generator) vehicles to go carbon neutral and make for reliable range. Energy from the battery could catalyze water into hydrogen for IC generator to recharge said battery.


Making my new SA build come true!!!

[larry_arizona]

The irony of using a gas generator to charge an EV….. love it


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[Holdmybeer]

The irony of using a gas generator to charge an EV….. love it


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You could always follow him around with your new F150 and be his "fuel cart". Claims you can run a house, should be able to charge an EV.

I kidd, I kidd.

[RC_Hinojosa]

.

But when it comes to recreation time, where I used to hunt you can’t even find a power line. I’d have to drag my 3k genny with me to go on a day long chukar hunt. With no cell service there is too much uncertainty.


Making my new SA build come true!!!

I guess I'm old school....I use dogs to flush chukar. Where I hunt, no vehicles or cell service would be a welcomed reprieve. [emoji2375]

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[sandm]

I guess I'm old school...

don't know if I'd call it old school or differences in the country in hunting. always found it funny that:

idaho deer hunting- 3 days off hiking miles and miles up and down mountains tracking deer that you have been scouting all summer. shoot a deer. quarter it and spend a day or 2 packing it all back out to a car. no shower, no phone, no vehicles. horses or 4wheelers MAYBE. and doused in deer urine daily to hide scent.

wisconsin deer hunting- saturday, grab a lunch, 6pack and cell phone. climb up in the deer stand and turn on saturday college football and deep into a 6pack, deer comes by your blind you have been baiting all summer. shoot. drive truck up to stand, load up deer and home for dinner.


neither state can understand the appeal to hunting in the other one.. always made me laugh when talking to hunters about it.

[schwan]

neither state can understand the appeal to hunting in the other one.. always made me laugh when talking to hunters about it.

This is funny because I’ve done both of those hunts and live in MN now, I love telling people about MN hunting because they just can’t believe we call it hunting.

Also we have an R1S deposit for my wife. We wouldn’t tow with it, just a grocery getter. Im trying to convince her to switch to the Cadillac lyriq.

I agree, it will be a while before you could get an EV tow vehicle. There needs to be a big infrastructure change, but it will happen.

[rhouse181]

don't know if I'd call it old school or differences in the country in hunting. always found it funny that:

idaho deer hunting- 3 days off hiking miles and miles up and down mountains tracking deer that you have been scouting all summer. shoot a deer. quarter it and spend a day or 2 packing it all back out to a car. no shower, no phone, no vehicles. horses or 4wheelers MAYBE. and doused in deer urine daily to hide scent.

wisconsin deer hunting- saturday, grab a lunch, 6pack and cell phone. climb up in the deer stand and turn on saturday college football and deep into a 6pack, deer comes by your blind you have been baiting all summer. shoot. drive truck up to stand, load up deer and home for dinner.


neither state can understand the appeal to hunting in the other one.. always made me laugh when talking to hunters about it.

These two scenarios aren't necessarily state specific... there is a pretty wide philosophical divergence when it comes to hunting and the push to the extreme "Idaho" hunting model seems to be favored in today's instagram world. Hunting doesn't appear approachable by the hobbiest these days because they think you need the finest tactical gear while spending a whole year training to shoot the biggest buck ever measured, and if you don't post a picture of this world record buck then the last 12 months of your life were a compete failure. Nothing but the utmost respect for those types of hunters, but we can't sustain the sport without the hobbiests.

Hunting should be more about the experience and the people, no matter how "extreme"... I'm in Texas, so I might be biased in the home to deer feeders and box blinds. But I love being able to walk out before sun set in a t-shirt with my 5 yr old son, hop in the blind, and see 5-10 deer and a handful of pigs every hunt. I can also bath in no scent soap for a week and hop in a tree stand to bow hunt for el jefe that I have been patterning for a year. No pressure hunting that is approachable for any family member or friend that likes to join me is what it's all about...

[2in2out]

I guess I'm old school....I use dogs to flush chukar. Where I hunt, no vehicles or cell service would be a welcomed reprieve. [emoji2375]

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I’ve never hunted with a dog that was worth a crap, and that includes 3 western regional champions.

I don’t know what it is about hunting dogs around me, but they malfunction every time, owners are so embarrassed. These are dogs I’ve known too. The scenario also usually ends up in the dog having explosive diarrhea.

I was too poor as a kid to have a hunting dog, but I never needed one as my dad always got us on the birds and he could almost always find them. I have a deficiency in being able to discern grey colors, so I have trouble finding downed birds.

My friend and I were considering getting Surron e-bikes to get into some hunting areas vs using his Teryx or beating up our trucks to get there. Nice quiet approach and fast.


Making my new SA build come true!!!

[Holdmybeer]

If the terrain isn't horrible....an EV John Deere Gator is a great hunting vehicle. Quiet, can haul gear in and gear and kill out. Hills and rough terrain will eat the battery though, just like towing with an EV.

The disability hunt charity event they do around me uses them and they get a pass so they can hunt from the vehicle (otherwise illegal).

[RC_Hinojosa]

I was too poor as a kid to have a hunting dog, but I never needed one as my dad always got us on the birds and he could almost always find them.


Making my new SA build come true!!!

I was too poor to have a dog as a kid, period, let alone a hunting dog.

I've owned dogs since college when I had my own place and my own rules [emoji6]. All I've ever had were Labrador Retrievers and while they may not be the nimblest chasing quail & chukar, they keep me out of the nasty when it comes to duck & geese.



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[sandm]

These two scenarios aren't necessarily state specific... .

agreed but it is to a certain degree. try to find a deer stand in idaho. they are around but somewhat rare.
guess is most of it has to do with the mountain terrain where deer/elk live in idaho being state managed vs wisconsin is all private land.

they both have their pros and cons and no dog in the hunt for me :) but was always interesting to hear one bash the other.
used to sell pallets of expired/outdated/seasonal candy to a guy in appleton for bear bait. he couldn't get enough of it..

[cucv]

Vroom is only going to go up on offer (have you seen dealer truck inventories? They are empty), I will wait 2 weeks, take delivery of new truck and then have vroom come get my 2018 and cut me a check. My 2018 isn’t due until 5/15

A month ago Carvana was offering me $1300
This week vroom started at $6800
This week Carvana offered $5900
This morning Vroom increased to $7300

I like my odds on offer going up over next couple weeks.

I can’t get rid of my 2018 as it’s my only means of towing the boat. No way I would move it until 2021 is in hand.

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLarry_arizona how was your experience with vroom or carvana? Looking to sell to carvana thursday.

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[larry_arizona]

Larry_arizona how was your experience with vroom or carvana? Looking to sell to carvana thursday.

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My experience with Ford was bad, Ford is one of 2 OEM’s that won’t let you sell a lease to Carvana,Vroom etc.

However my dealer bought my truck for nearly same deals at vroom.


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[HFarr]

Okay, I have to vent for just a moment. It's been raining here a lot lately, and I live at the end of a dirt road that is not maintained quite like it should be. My wife calls me at about 9 pm after meeting a few of her girlfriends for dinner and tells me she is stuck about 200 yards from the house. I laugh and said I will be right there in a second. I drive my f150 4x4 down in front of her and get out in the mud to hook up a tow strap. Well damn!. Nowhere to hook anything. Front or back. It's a 2021 Lincoln Aviator. Shitload of plastic front and back all underneath way past an arms reach. So I have to go back and get a shovel, bricks, wood, and work my ass off.
Next day I look online determined that I just overlooked a tow point in the dark. Nope. Not any on the stupid thing! And you can't even reach a frame component on it even when it is sitting flat on the pavement. Much less slightly buried in mud. The Ford explorer, which is the less expensive, version of the Lincoln, has a nice little removable cap in the plastic grill you can pop off and thread a pulling eye into the frame for just such a situation. What the hell Lincoln? Very poor design. So anyone that gets stuck in mud, snow or ice that just needs a slight pull out is screwed!

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[2in2out]

Okay, I have to vent for just a moment. It's been raining here a lot lately, and I live at the end of a dirt road that is not maintained quite like it should be. My wife calls me at about 9 pm after meeting a few of her girlfriends for dinner and tells me she is stuck about 200 yards from the house. I laugh and said I will be right there in a second. I drive my f150 4x4 down in front of her and get out in the mud to hook up a tow strap. Well damn!. Nowhere to hook anything. Front or back. It's a 2021 Lincoln Aviator. Shitload of plastic front and back all underneath way past an arms reach. So I have to go back and get a shovel, bricks, wood, and work my ass off.
Next day I look online determined that I just overlooked a tow point in the dark. Nope. Not any on the stupid thing! And you can't even reach a frame component on it even when it is sitting flat on the pavement. Much less slightly buried in mud. The Ford explorer, which is the less expensive, version of the Lincoln, has a nice little removable cap in the plastic grill you can pop off and thread a pulling eye into the frame for just such a situation. What the hell Lincoln? Very poor design. So anyone that gets stuck in mud, snow or ice that just needs a slight pull out is screwed!

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Sounds like a true pavement queen!


Making my new SA build come true!!!

[HFarr]

Yes it is. Not even all wheel drive model. But I don't care what kind of vehicle you have, provide some sort of means to attach a tow hook or strap some freaking where.

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[2in2out]

Yes it is. Not even all wheel drive model. But I don't care what kind of vehicle you have, provide some sort of means to attach a tow hook or strap some freaking where.

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So, in my line of work I work with a lot of tow vehicle vendors. This is a common complaint of some vehicles, but it is a minor complaint because they are usually so damaged that it doesn’t matter where the cable gets attached when loaded on the flatbed wrecker.


Making my new SA build come true!!!

[rhouse181]

Last dip of the season and first chance to give the Durango towing capacity a run for it's money. I'm happy to report that tow mode bangs out quite sporty 5k shifts and she handles the weight without much fanfare...

https://i.imgur.com/JPCaLtV.jpg

[larry_arizona]

Last dip of the season and first chance to give the Durango towing capacity a run for it's money. I'm happy to report that tow mode bangs out quite sporty 5k shifts and she handles the weight without much fanfare...

https://i.imgur.com/JPCaLtV.jpg

Not going to lie, but that is a lot of suspension sag.


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[SONIC]

Not going to lie, but that is a lot of suspension sag.


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I think it's pretty damn low to start with look at the front clearance. Looks like an inch inch and a half of sag or so.

[rhouse181]

I think it's pretty damn low to start with look at the front clearance. Looks like an inch inch and a half of sag or so.

Yea the SRT rides lower from the start than a standard Durango. It was ~1" of additional squat when hitched up, but I didn't take out bow lead and had the back of the truck loaded with my air compressor, all my boards, detailing supplies, life jackets, etc. Not like I'm tucking rear tires like the stance bros :cool:

Miss the rear air springs on my old Tahoe, but that's about it.

[Zog]

Yea the SRT rides lower from the start than a standard Durango. It was ~1" of additional squat when hitched up, but I didn't take out bow lead and had the back of the truck loaded with my air compressor, all my boards, detailing supplies, life jackets, etc. Not like I'm tucking rear tires like the stance bros :cool:

Miss the rear air springs on my old Tahoe, but that's about it.

I use a Durango Crew with the 5.7 Hemi and it has the load leveling rear suspension. It hardly sags at all. The Durango is good for most of the towing for our Mojo, but I had to take it up a 6% grade last summer and it really struggled to get back up to speed after we were cut off by a semi and had to slow down. Probably not the best day to be testing with 1,000 lbs of lead :D

[Holdmybeer]

Ok...so someone is looking to buy my dually from me for some good coin.

I need to order a new truck. I actually use it but nothing over 15k towing for 3yrs. Mojo weighted is 7000 with gear and trailer so not worried. Other equipment has me getting a 3/4 or 1 ton. No dually this time, BUT should I go gas???

I love, love my Duramax. Being 2008 deleting was easy and has been worry free. The new ones not so much. I love the super duty. But worried about the CP4 issues, if that is still a thing.

So save $6.5k and go f350 larait gas tremor....or go f350 fx4 black package diesel?

Fist world problems, I get it but I really cannot decide. I don't want to buy gas and regret it but why deal with any issues diesel emissions can bring to the rig.....I hate overthinking

[rhouse181]

Ok...so someone is looking to buy my dually from me for some good coin.

I need to order a new truck. I actually use it but nothing over 15k towing for 3yrs. Mojo weighted is 7000 with gear and trailer so not worried. Other equipment has me getting a 3/4 or 1 ton. No dually this time, BUT should I go gas???

I love, love my Duramax. Being 2008 deleting was easy and has been worry free. The new ones not so much. I love the super duty. But worried about the CP4 issues, if that is still a thing.

So save $6.5k and go f350 larait gas tremor....or go f350 fx4 black package diesel?

Fist world problems, I get it but I really cannot decide. I don't want to buy gas and regret it but why deal with any issues diesel emissions can bring to the rig.....I hate overthinking

The new Ford 7.3 gasser is a beast... that would be my vote.

Between the added cost, weight, and emissions complexity of the new diesels, it's not worth the hassle if you plan to keep your truck for awhile.

[Rilez]

That's really interesting, what package Ram did you test drive? I usually hear and would agree with that Ram is ahead of the curve as far as niceties on the interior.

[Rilez]

I tow with my Ram 1500 Ecodiesel

[ramobman55]

Not the Mojo, but used to tow my ski boat with my '95 Land Rover Defender (300TDI, RHD)
30165
30166
Tow vehicle upgrade is currently in progress...

[rdlangston13]

Well we picked up a new tow option for the Mojo. Not sure it’s going to get used much for towing but with a 9400# capacity it should be more than capable.

2023 Ford Expedition Timberline

Wife wanted a jacked up keep but was unwilling to forfeit the 3rd row seat so we got this and she wanted a “lift” so we did 3” strut spacers up from and 2” in the rear and slapped on some 295/70R18 Toyo AT3s. Came out pretty good.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230823/758f2ccc74b37931234b9c072069e3c8.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230823/860be9939371e6ed1e3600d04115f82d.jpg


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[Scott-clt]

Nice rig!


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[MJHSupra]

Slick ride


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[MJHSupra]

Well we picked up a new tow option for the Mojo. Not sure it’s going to get used much for towing but with a 9400# capacity it should be more than capable.

2023 Ford Expedition Timberline

Wife wanted a jacked up keep but was unwilling to forfeit the 3rd row seat so we got this and she wanted a “lift” so we did 3” strut spacers up from and 2” in the rear and slapped on some 295/70R18 Toyo AT3s. Came out pretty good.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230823/758f2ccc74b37931234b9c072069e3c8.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230823/860be9939371e6ed1e3600d04115f82d.jpg


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Any serious sale action on the Mojo?


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[HFarr]

Sharp ride! She has good taste!

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[rdlangston13]

Any serious sale action on the Mojo?


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Nah, we pulled it off the market due to an accounting error haha. No longer for sale


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[rdlangston13]

Sharp ride! She has good taste!

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It was this or a z71 Tahoe and if I got a Tahoe I wanted a 6.2 and those are almost non existent. I found a lot of at4 yukons with the 6.2 but they all had air suspension so we wouldn’t be able to really lift it at all. So the expedition won. More power and torque than the 6.2 and lift-able.


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[j.mo]

It was this or a z71 Tahoe and if I got a Tahoe I wanted a 6.2 and those are almost non existent. I found a lot of at4 yukons with the 6.2 but they all had air suspension so we wouldn’t be able to really lift it at all. So the expedition won. More power and torque than the 6.2 and lift-able.


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I was kind of in your position. Wanted a full size SUV capable of towing the boat if desired.
Ended up with the 3.0 duramax in a high country Tahoe. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230824/f13c40a49c61d3d656d3e98aa4b49893.jpg


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[rdlangston13]

I was kind of in your position. Wanted a full size SUV capable of towing the boat if desired.
Ended up with the 3.0 duramax in a high country Tahoe. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230824/f13c40a49c61d3d656d3e98aa4b49893.jpg


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Went a different direction that us with the all white. I have a white truck and my wife hates it lol. Says it looks like a fleet vehicle but I think white looks clean. Like your Tahoe looks great. We were going to go with some light blue color until she saw the black and she decided the orange accents look better on the black. Here are a couple better shots

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230824/d184ef4211e6e8e1c0f08368ca5bc6cd.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230824/ef817f8c02c0cbb0c5b54cbbd37e06f6.jpg


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[j.mo]

Went a different direction that us with the all white. I have a white truck and my wife hates it lol. Says it looks like a fleet vehicle but I think white looks clean. Like your Tahoe looks great. We were going to go with some light blue color until she saw the black and she decided the orange accents look better on the black. Here are a couple better shots

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230824/d184ef4211e6e8e1c0f08368ca5bc6cd.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230824/ef817f8c02c0cbb0c5b54cbbd37e06f6.jpg


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Love the look of the black. My mega cab is black. Tried to go with the blacked out de badged tahoe. The big boss says the murder wagon look is too aggressive [emoji23]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230824/b4c673abc5ca0e92f9dae7c2b477556d.jpg


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[bergermaister]

Sweet mega cab! How many times a a day do you wash it....