AutoWake questions

[korey]

After spending the first few weekends working with Autowake, I spent THE BEST time behind my own boat that I've ever gotten with my repetitively inexperienced girlfriend at the helm last night! Best $970 option ever! Launch assist and auto-retracting plates make the boat SOOOO much easier for her to handle picking up riders, and of course the consistency with the ballast without her having to adjust people it a game change for me! I've run a boat "manually" for most of my life, but this is the single best investment in my time behind the boat! I was happy with it surfing at 9.5 pitch, 4.0 roll and 11.4mph. 34% smart plate 55% port tab surfing goofey/starboard. The real gem is auto leveling for wakeboarding! Eliminating the need to "drive the boat from the end of the rope" and/or adjusting passenger weight to even the wake out and focusing on riding is amazing!

Last weekend I had a crew from the local Mastercraft dealership in the boat. At first they were defensive, then they started to see it... I got a good laugh out of their, "why don't we have that?!"

[Boonejeepin]

After spending the first few weekends working with Autowake, I spent THE BEST time behind my own boat that I've ever gotten with my repetitively inexperienced girlfriend at the helm last night! Best $970 option ever! Launch assist and auto-retracting plates make the boat SOOOO much easier for her to handle picking up riders, and of course the consistency with the ballast without her having to adjust people it a game change for me! I've run a boat "manually" for most of my life, but this is the single best investment in my time behind the boat! I was happy with it surfing at 9.5 pitch, 4.0 roll and 11.4mph. 34% smart plate 55% port tab surfing goofey/starboard. The real gem is auto leveling for wakeboarding! Eliminating the need to "drive the boat from the end of the rope" and/or adjusting passenger weight to even the wake out and focusing on riding is amazing!

Last weekend I had a crew from the local Mastercraft dealership in the boat. At first they were defensive, then they started to see it... I got a good laugh out of their, "why don't we have that?!"

I really see how Autowake is an absolute gem for wakeboarding and helps a ton while surfing with an inexperienced driver. Although when surfing I have found that I am usually good with everything filled but I don’t usually have a large crew moving around to deal with.

It’s also nice to set the amplitude at 5 and always see clean wakes behind me while cruising.


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[jbird]

Does anybody know if it's possible to use it with less than 50% ballast in the rears when teaching inexperienced riders? In other words, it would be nice to use it as more of a "leveling tool" at times. Correct me if I'm wrong but once AW is turned on it immediately fills the rears to 50% and the front to 30% if I'm not mistaken. So if you fill the rear above 50% and then turn AW on will it continue to fill the rear to 75%? I've been so focused with using AW for surfing that I really haven't given it much attention for wakeboarding but I plan on playing around with it more this weekend.

Matt (Goose), any chance you could do a quick tutorial on using Autowake for wakeboarding?

[stevemarich]

Get the latest software downloaded and you can use the amp setting to accomplish that,I set mine to 35% for wakeboard yesterday, was pretty simple turn amp bar to 35% let it fill till static autowake was achieved, and done. Wake was perfect immediately. If you want more turn the amp setting up.

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[rdlangston13]

Does anybody know if it's possible to use it with less than 50% ballast in the rears when teaching inexperienced riders? In other words, it would be nice to use it as more of a "leveling tool" at times. Correct me if I'm wrong but once AW is turned on it immediately fills the rears to 50% and the front to 30% if I'm not mistaken. So if you fill the rear above 50% and then turn AW on will it continue to fill the rear to 75%? I've been so focused with using AW for surfing that I really haven't given it much attention for wakeboarding but I plan on playing around with it more this weekend.

Matt (Goose), any chance you could do a quick tutorial on using Autowake for wakeboarding?

Yeah I think you can just turn the amp to to like 10-15% and it should level itself out


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[Bairum]

Get the latest software downloaded and you can use the amp setting to accomplish that,I set mine to 35% for wakeboard yesterday, was pretty simple turn amp bar to 35% let it fill till static autowake was achieved, and done. Wake was perfect immediately. If you want more turn the amp setting up.

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Excuse the ignorant question, but I just bought a 2018 Craze. What is the typical approach to updating the software? Take it to the dealer?


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[stevemarich]

Excuse the ignorant question, but I just bought a 2018 Craze. What is the typical approach to updating the software? Take it to the dealer?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIf you have an 18 then you don't need new software you should have the amp setting already, can't see signatures in Tapatalk so assumed you have 17. So you should be able set that setting and it will only fill to what you set it too.

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[stevemarich]

If you haven't ever changed the amp setting , when you have autowake turned on if you don't see the bars in the middle and it saying amp then push the far right button to toggle to the other view and it should show up , the adjustment arrows will show up then as well, should have two bars , set point and actual ,

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[Bairum]

If you have an 18 then you don't need new software you should have the amp setting already, can't see signatures in Tapatalk so assumed you have 17. So you should be able set that setting and it will only fill to what you set it too.

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Yep, I have an ‘18. Thanks for the quick response...

Note that I’m not the OP. Your assumption on the ‘17 for him/her may be correct.


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[stevemarich]

Yep, I have an ‘18. Thanks for the quick response...

Note that I’m not the OP. Your assumption on the ‘17 for him/her may be correct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Ha, didn't even notice that , typing between loading parts in the CNC, I guess I'm not paying close enough attention [emoji23]

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[euro2012]

2018 Supra SL here. Has anyone noticed on the amplitude bar that as it goes up, the numbers move up with it, so it always looks like it is at 0 even though the bar is getting filled. Does that make sense?

[goose]

Hey guys! I have been emailing several different people and I have realized that maybe we didn't do the best job at explaining displacement / amplitude bar / and wake size expectations. I have shared this with a few of you, but thought the entire group could benefit or learn from this explanation. As I have said many times in the past, in surfing there is one critical rule and that is there is NO replacement for displacement. AutoWake adjusts ballast and helps you move passengers to achieve proper pitch and roll, but that is only 2 of the 3 critical variables. Pitch and Roll define shape, and shape is very important, but NOTHING is more important that displacement. That is why for 2018 we have the new (recently patented!) amplitude bar. I have slightly modified the amplitude bar and I think this might help some of you understand better how displacement works. Here is the bar...

27154

Every model is different but lets take a Craz for example. On the 2018 Craz, the boat has a ballast capacity of 3,000lbs. The boat also has capacity for an additional 2,400lbs of passengers/gear. So, the overall capacity of displacement (legally) is 5,400lbs. Let's break that down into the sections that are shown on this bar graph. The lower third would be approximately 0-1800lbs of displacement. The middle third would be approximately 1801-3600lbs of displacement. The Upper third would be approximately 3601-5400lbs. These sections should allow you to set your expectations on wake size. Think of it like small, medium, or large. Or maybe even like ski, board, surf. This doesn't apply to everyone as some people can surf a small wave or ski a large wake, but for the majority of people looking to have a "decent" size surf wave, you should really get your displacement in the upper third of displacement. PLUS, the larger the rider, the higher up the displacement needs to be. The smaller the board, the higher up the displacement needs to be. And the opposite is true, if you are a smaller rider, then you can get away with less displacement, or if you have a larger board, then again you can get away with less displacement. And this same theory holds true for smaller boats. Like in the case of the Mondo. That boat has a total capacity of 4300lbs. Using same logic, because of the smaller hull and running surface, you can actually run less overall displacement, but you still need to be in the upper third. So, in that boat, you really need to be in the 3,000lb displacement range at least.

I think many people lost track of displacement and only thought about pitch and roll. But displacement is the real key and if you let it, AutoWake can TEACH you how to optimize passenger location to achieve max displacement AND get the correct pitch and roll. As some have explained before, a good way to do that is watch how AutoWake adjusts ballast for you. If AutoWake drains weight in the front, then move weight to the rear. If AutoWake drains weight on the port side, then move weight to starboard. The basic rule of thumb is ALWAYS move passengers to the area of the boat where ballast is 100% full. AND that includes moving weight front or back. Once you learn how to do that, then AutoWake will make sure you have exactly the correct pitch and roll AND it will help you optimize passenger location to get 100% max displacement. What you will find is the lower you are on the displacement amplitude scale, the more critical optimizing passenger location will be. If you are running a potential of 6,000lbs of ballast/lead/passengers, then optimizing passenger location is NOT as critical since you are very high on the amplitude bar. But if you are running in that middle section of amplitude and you are trying to optimize the best wave you can that day, I highly recommend letting AutoWake help you get 100% of your potential you can.

One last comment I want to address is I have heard many people say they prefer to manually adjust and don't use AutoWake. To those people, if you are getting good performance, then I say go for it and have fun. But this would be my suggestion... If you are comfortable moving passengers then why wouldn't you let AutoWake help recommend where to put those passengers? If you are filling all ballast to 100%, then moving passengers to get the wave correct (getting correct pitch and roll), then why not check your pitch and roll and mentally make a note of those values. I would make a bet that if you did that over and over, you would find that when you get the wave "correct" you are probably duplicating the same pitch and roll each time. AND, I would bet that if you let AutoWake help you do that, you would find the wave to be even MORE consistent then manually doing the trial and error method of slightly moving one person at a time. But, again, we know that AutoWake is not for everyone. And if you are having a great time on your boat and spending time with your family, then that is really all that matters. Sorry I got long winded on this one, just thought these tid bits of info might help some of you as you keep learning more about AutoWake this summer!! Have a safe and fun time out there!!

[moombahighrider]

Hey guys! I have been emailing several different people and I have realized that maybe we didn't do the best job at explaining displacement / amplitude bar / and wake size expectations. I have shared this with a few of you, but thought the entire group could benefit or learn from this explanation. As I have said many times in the past, in surfing there is one critical rule and that is there is NO replacement for displacement. AutoWake adjusts ballast and helps you move passengers to achieve proper pitch and roll, but that is only 2 of the 3 critical variables. Pitch and Roll define shape, and shape is very important, but NOTHING is more important that displacement. That is why for 2018 we have the new (recently patented!) amplitude bar. I have slightly modified the amplitude bar and I think this might help some of you understand better how displacement works. Here is the bar...

27154

Every model is different but lets take a Craz for example. On the 2018 Craz, the boat has a ballast capacity of 3,000lbs. The boat also has capacity for an additional 2,400lbs of passengers/gear. So, the overall capacity of displacement (legally) is 5,400lbs. Let's break that down into the sections that are shown on this bar graph. The lower third would be approximately 0-1800lbs of displacement. The middle third would be approximately 1801-3600lbs of displacement. The Upper third would be approximately 3601-5400lbs. These sections should allow you to set your expectations on wake size. Think of it like small, medium, or large. Or maybe even like ski, board, surf. This doesn't apply to everyone as some people can surf a small wave or ski a large wake, but for the majority of people looking to have a "decent" size surf wave, you should really get your displacement in the upper third of displacement. PLUS, the larger the rider, the higher up the displacement needs to be. The smaller the board, the higher up the displacement needs to be. And the opposite is true, if you are a smaller rider, then you can get away with less displacement, or if you have a larger board, then again you can get away with less displacement. And this same theory holds true for smaller boats. Like in the case of the Mondo. That boat has a total capacity of 4300lbs. Using same logic, because of the smaller hull and running surface, you can actually run less overall displacement, but you still need to be in the upper third. So, in that boat, you really need to be in the 3,000lb displacement range at least.

I think many people lost track of displacement and only thought about pitch and roll. But displacement is the real key and if you let it, AutoWake can TEACH you how to optimize passenger location to achieve max displacement AND get the correct pitch and roll. As some have explained before, a good way to do that is watch how AutoWake adjusts ballast for you. If AutoWake drains weight in the front, then move weight to the rear. If AutoWake drains weight on the port side, then move weight to starboard. The basic rule of thumb is ALWAYS move passengers to the area of the boat where ballast is 100% full. AND that includes moving weight front or back. Once you learn how to do that, then AutoWake will make sure you have exactly the correct pitch and roll AND it will help you optimize passenger location to get 100% max displacement. What you will find is the lower you are on the displacement amplitude scale, the more critical optimizing passenger location will be. If you are running a potential of 6,000lbs of ballast/lead/passengers, then optimizing passenger location is NOT as critical since you are very high on the amplitude bar. But if you are running in that middle section of amplitude and you are trying to optimize the best wave you can that day, I highly recommend letting AutoWake help you get 100% of your potential you can.

One last comment I want to address is I have heard many people say they prefer to manually adjust and don't use AutoWake. To those people, if you are getting good performance, then I say go for it and have fun. But this would be my suggestion... If you are comfortable moving passengers then why wouldn't you let AutoWake help recommend where to put those passengers? If you are filling all ballast to 100%, then moving passengers to get the wave correct (getting correct pitch and roll), then why not check your pitch and roll and mentally make a note of those values. I would make a bet that if you did that over and over, you would find that when you get the wave "correct" you are probably duplicating the same pitch and roll each time. AND, I would bet that if you let AutoWake help you do that, you would find the wave to be even MORE consistent then manually doing the trial and error method of slightly moving one person at a time. But, again, we know that AutoWake is not for everyone. And if you are having a great time on your boat and spending time with your family, then that is really all that matters. Sorry I got long winded on this one, just thought these tid bits of info might help some of you as you keep learning more about AutoWake this summer!! Have a safe and fun time out there!!

Goose, I am quoting you to get your attention on a different question. I saw this post of the moomba Facebook page. Is what he is saying accurate?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180611/835b19fe616a884bd59c22bad89b3bd6.png

[LAwake]

Goose, I am quoting you to get your attention on a different question. I saw this post of the moomba Facebook page. Is what he is saying accurate?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180611/835b19fe616a884bd59c22bad89b3bd6.png

I saw this same post today and it's the first I've ever heard of that.

[tkskiles]

My screw up. No minimum depth. Manufacturer thinks computer hickup. Sorry for the confusion.

Going to take the post down to avoid further confusion. Once again my apologies I’m still learning the system.

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[korey]

I had what I think was a GPS hiccup this weekend that sounds a little like what you're talking about. Boat slowed down, then surged over set speed, then settled down and was fine for 6+ more hours of surfing...

[Idcatfan]

Matt,

I just became a new Moomba Max owner in July and my family and I are new to wakesurfing. I can’t thank you enough for the wisdom you’ve imparted in this thread, as it has helped me out immensely to understand the nuts and bolts of the system so that we can enjoy the sport.

Two questions I have though:

I understand that Autowake is a predictive technology. Therefore, as I’m filling my ballast while idling, are the numbers for pitch and roll that are displayed accurate for that particular time frame, or are the numbers shown extrapolated to the software’s estimation of where you will be once at speed?

Also, is there harm in filling or draining the ballasts while at speed? If so, is there a set speed not to violate while doing so?

Thanks again. I have re-read your tips multiple times and also watched your interview w/ Robert. I feel MUCH more confident now out on the lake dialing in a surf wave! As a matter of fact, you guys should think about putting this info (and other explanations of functions of the boat) into a “new owner’s handbook”. This is the kind of info that can really help ensure an excellent experience for new owners, as dealers (and mine has been excellent) just don’t have the time or knowledge to do such deep dives into the working mechanics of the boat.

[goose]

I had what I think was a GPS hiccup this weekend that sounds a little like what you're talking about. Boat slowed down, then surged over set speed, then settled down and was fine for 6+ more hours of surfing...Hey guys. On vacation but i will try and help. Fyi, the gps puck turns off with key switch. If you turn key on and immediately take off, the gps doesnt have time to lock in and when it does can create a surge or deceleration. I recommend you give it a little time to lock in before you take off. That should help.

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[goose]

Matt,

I just became a new Moomba Max owner in July and my family and I are new to wakesurfing. I can’t thank you enough for the wisdom you’ve imparted in this thread, as it has helped me out immensely to understand the nuts and bolts of the system so that we can enjoy the sport.

Two questions I have though:

I understand that Autowake is a predictive technology. Therefore, as I’m filling my ballast while idling, are the numbers for pitch and roll that are displayed accurate for that particular time frame, or are the numbers shown extrapolated to the software’s estimation of where you will be once at speed?

Also, is there harm in filling or draining the ballasts while at speed? If so, is there a set speed not to violate while doing so?

Thanks again. I have re-read your tips multiple times and also watched your interview w/ Robert. I feel MUCH more confident now out on the lake dialing in a surf wave! As a matter of fact, you guys should think about putting this info (and other explanations of functions of the boat) into a “new owner’s handbook”. This is the kind of info that can really help ensure an excellent experience for new owners, as dealers (and mine has been excellent) just don’t have the time or knowledge to do such deep dives into the working mechanics of the boat.Congrats on your Max. Hope you are loving your boat! To answer your questions, Autowake always displays actual pitch and roll. The numbers are constantly being filtered so there might be a slight delay as boat moves but the predictive state is all working behind the scene and doesnt display lookup table values (which again is patented technology...). So what you see is what the boat sees. As to speed filling, the ballast can fill sitting still or moving. We dont publish does and donts but filling at wide open throttle is not recommended. But filling at wakeboard speeds is fine and you can drain at any speed.

As fyi, the pumps definitely fill at different rates relative to boat voltage. So if you always fill at 14 volts running but drain at 12 volts sitting still, then you will need to adjust fill and drain times so that bags fill AND drain correctly. If you dont adjust timers then you could be under draining and overfilling which puts a LOT of pressure on ballast fittings and can lead to problems...

Hope you enjoy your boat.

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[Idcatfan]

Congrats on your Max. Hope you are loving your boat! To answer your questions, Autowake always displays actual pitch and roll. The numbers are constantly being filtered so there might be a slight delay as boat moves but the predictive state is all working behind the scene and doesnt display lookup table values (which again is patented technology...). So what you see is what the boat sees. As to speed filling, the ballast can fill sitting still or moving. We dont publish does and donts but filling at wide open throttle is not recommended. But filling at wakeboard speeds is fine and you can drain at any speed.

As fyi, the pumps definitely fill at different rates relative to boat voltage. So if you always fill at 14 volts running but drain at 12 volts sitting still, then you will need to adjust fill and drain times so that bags fill AND drain correctly. If you dont adjust timers then you could be under draining and overfilling which puts a LOT of pressure on ballast fittings and can lead to problems...

Hope you enjoy your boat.

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Thanks Matt.

Regarding draining/filling, I have just relied on percentages on the display. When at 100%, I can hear the boat pissing out excess water. And when draining, I flick the switches when they read 0%. Is this not an accurate/sound metric to use?

Thanks again!

[CanadaGuy]

Hi Matt, Just took delivery of my first Moomba. It’s a 2018 Mondo with autowake and the maximum factory ballast. Is there a really detailed instruction manual someplace? I want to know how to play with the factory settings a little. With the wake switch in the middle and autowake on, we’re getting an asymmetrical wakeboard wake. Also half the threads say add more aftermarket ballast to get a better wakesurf wave, but autowake drains some of my sacs to get the ideal pitch and roll. Any thoughts on the best setup for a 2018 factory Mondo assuming only 2 spotters and a driver? Thanks, Dave

[goose]

Thanks Matt.

Regarding draining/filling, I have just relied on percentages on the display. When at 100%, I can hear the boat pissing out excess water. And when draining, I flick the switches when they read 0%. Is this not an accurate/sound metric to use?

Thanks again!So...while the display will be close, unfortunately ballast timers can not take into account all variables. Rule number 1 (that not many people use...) is if water is coming OUT the top outlets of deck, then something is NOT right. Either you have ballast bags that are too full or too much water in your bilge. In either case, if water is coming out, then you need to check or adjust something. I have a feeling your drain timers need to be adjusted. Or maybe fill, or maybe both. Next time you are out, fill like normal, but watch the rear bag. Notice when bag is actually full relative to fill percent. Then drain bags like normal. After draining, check bag. If you have lots of water left in bag, then add time to drain timers. You should adjust drain timers until you can hear the drain pumps sucking air. That means you are almost empty. After getting drain timers correct, refill and check fill time again. If adjusted correctly, the bags should be full at 100% without pissing out the side of boat. And should be drained at 0. If you dont get timers right, you will definitely eventually have problems with fittings. With the 6 pump system, the fittings are not designed to overfill for very long and might pull off if you overfill for an extended period.

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[goose]

Canadaguy, you should go back and read this entire thread as this is probably the best detailed manual we have currently.

If wakeboard wakes are off with autowake, then you need to recalibrate inclinometer. I covered that earlier.

As to large waves with only 2 passengers, that cant really happen unless you add extra bags or lead. Again, i discussed tgat earlier but nothing replaces displacement. If you want size, you need displacement, thats it.

If autowake is draining ballast then either inclinometer needs adjusted or you need to move passenger location. Autowake makes everything easier and can help you, but it cant move passengers and cant fill more ballast than you have available. I think once you read the entire thread you will have a much better understanding and your expectations of autowake will be more accurate. Good luck!
Hi Matt, Just took delivery of my first Moomba. It’s a 2018 Mondo with autowake and the maximum factory ballast. Is there a really detailed instruction manual someplace? I want to know how to play with the factory settings a little. With the wake switch in the middle and autowake on, we’re getting an asymmetrical wakeboard wake. Also half the threads say add more aftermarket ballast to get a better wakesurf wave, but autowake drains some of my sacs to get the ideal pitch and roll. Any thoughts on the best setup for a 2018 factory Mondo assuming only 2 spotters and a driver? Thanks, Dave

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[Idcatfan]

Just so I’m clear Matt, I only see and hear the pissing 5-10 sec after I fill to the 100% mark while leaving the switches in the ON position.

In fact, on our maiden voyage w/ our dealer rep he made it a point to show us this to illustrate that we can’t overfill the bags!:mrgreen:

On another note, just so others know, we did the factory tour and it was WELL worth it. Watching the Supras and Moombas come down the exact same service lines really helps illustrate the difference between Moomba and other “budget” boats. Cough...Axis...cough, cough.:)

[NickNick]

Would someone mind sending me the 2018 update. thanks.

[RC_Hinojosa]

Would someone mind sending me the 2018 update. thanks.

I got ya, check your inbox.

[GeorgiaDoc2]

Matt, thank you for all of the info in this thread. I just purchased a 2018 Mojo Pro, upgraded from a 2015 Mobius LSV. First day on the water was not so great. Couldn't get a good consistent wave. Seemed like everything I tried just made things worse. The reason was....They did make things worse. That night I read all of your Tips several times, took notes and thought about what I was doing to the boat. Went out the next day and had a consistent wave. Understanding what Autowake is doing and why has made it far easier to watch what it is doing and maximize my wave by not counteracting the system. Great job to the team in developing and you in explaining the system.
Mark Gay

[jeremyu04]

After spending the first few weekends working with Autowake, I spent THE BEST time behind my own boat that I've ever gotten with my repetitively inexperienced girlfriend at the helm last night! Best $970 option ever! Launch assist and auto-retracting plates make the boat SOOOO much easier for her to handle picking up riders, and of course the consistency with the ballast without her having to adjust people it a game change for me! I've run a boat "manually" for most of my life, but this is the single best investment in my time behind the boat! I was happy with it surfing at 9.5 pitch, 4.0 roll and 11.4mph. 34% smart plate 55% port tab surfing goofey/starboard. The real gem is auto leveling for wakeboarding! Eliminating the need to "drive the boat from the end of the rope" and/or adjusting passenger weight to even the wake out and focusing on riding is amazing!

Last weekend I had a crew from the local Mastercraft dealership in the boat. At first they were defensive, then they started to see it... I got a good laugh out of their, "why don't we have that?!"




I'm about to add this Autowake to my boat. 2018 Craz, Apparently I thought it came standard.... What do I need to add the Zero-Off GPS? Do I really need this Autowake? I've heard good and bad things. Mostly good. Im a newbie so I think it will make things easier to setup. I just ordered 500lbs of lead and want to get these enzo bags you speak of and don't really know which ones to get yet. I guess my main question is do you think it is worth adding to my Craz if I don't have it already?

[rdlangston13]

I'm about to add this Autowake to my boat. 2018 Craz, Apparently I thought it came standard.... What do I need to add the Zero-Off GPS? Do I really need this Autowake? I've heard good and bad things. Mostly good. Im a newbie so I think it will make things easier to setup. I just ordered 500lbs of lead and want to get these enzo bags you speak of and don't really know which ones to get yet. I guess my main question is do you think it is worth adding to my Craz if I don't have it already?

If you ordered your boat with the max surf then it came with 900s already. Instead of ordering Enzo’s I would orde a couple of the standard 400s and put them under the seats in the cabin and use a tsunami pump to fill them when you want them. This is MUCH cheaper and it will retain your under seat storage when you are not filling the boar 100% for surfing. Autowake is very useful and I enjoy it on my 2017.


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[goose]

Thanks Mark for the compliments. I really think the more you use AutoWake, and the more you understand it, the more you will actually like it. When we first introduced AutoWake, we really marketed it as the "easy button" and I think a lot of people got confused that maybe it was only for beginners. The truth is it really is great for beginners and takes a LOT of the frustration out for how to get a good wave or wake easily, BUT once you learn how to use it, then you can really start maximizing ALL your potential ballast by letting AutoWake actually help you move passengers or lead to allow you to get the most out of your boat.

We are discussing how to change our marketing approach for AutoWake, but the more I use it the more I feel like it is the "Navigation System" for wake control. Sure, it has the "AutoPilot" system if you want to only use that, but as you learn how the boat works and how AutoWake moves ballast, then it actually gives you full understanding and visual representation of everything the boat sees. As you understand how pitch, roll, displacement, and passenger location works, then as anything changes, you can see exactly what the boat actually sees and then you can make more advanced decisions based on that knowledge. The prime example of that is letting AutoWake tell you exactly where to place passengers (or lead) to allow AutoWake to reach 100% on all ballast. But it will also help you as you want to tweak flow plates, or wakeplate, or even how to adjust the shape of the wave for the advanced surfer or newbie.

As I have said many times, even though I was involved in getting AutoWake in our boats, I feel like every weekend I use it, the more it is actually teaching me. A couple weeks ago I was on vacation and every day we had a different amount of people on the boat. Some days we only had a couple passengers and some days we had a completely full boat. Some days I had very experienced riders and some days I was teaching new people. Years ago before AutoWake, that experience would have been very frustrating. How do you estimate how much people weigh? What do you do when 4 people run to the front of the boat? How do you try and get the wake correct before each rider actually gets in the water? I am sure you guys can relate. Without AutoWake it is basically a blind trial and error process and sometimes that leaves the new riders or passengers with lets just say a "less than impressive" first experience of the boat. What I love about AutoWake is now even as an advanced driver, I can tell before I ever put the boat in gear where I need to put passengers, how much weight I need to add or drain (amplitude) to get the desired wake/wave size, or if I want I can just let AutoWake move ballast for me. I have complete confidence that when I let AutoWake achieve Static pitch and roll, that my wake or wave is going to be dialed and with the amplitude meter, I know exactly how big that wake or wave is going to be every time. And it did just that. One day I drove for 10 hours, pulling different riders all day and every rider had an amazing experience. We taught kids and adults and even pulled some very experienced riders and regardless of the skill level, we got to the right shape and size wave almost immediately. After you do that a few times, and really start understanding and trusting AutoWake, then trust me, you will never want to drive another boat without it....




Matt, thank you for all of the info in this thread. I just purchased a 2018 Mojo Pro, upgraded from a 2015 Mobius LSV. First day on the water was not so great. Couldn't get a good consistent wave. Seemed like everything I tried just made things worse. The reason was....They did make things worse. That night I read all of your Tips several times, took notes and thought about what I was doing to the boat. Went out the next day and had a consistent wave. Understanding what Autowake is doing and why has made it far easier to watch what it is doing and maximize my wave by not counteracting the system. Great job to the team in developing and you in explaining the system.
Mark Gay

[korey]

Coming from a background of running wake boats "manually" for most of my life, and now that I've got about 30 hours on Autowake (45 hours on the boat) I'm feeling pretty good about using AW as a tool, but have some reservations - which may actually be ideas for improvement... Actually I think my reservations are about the rest of the controls, not Autowake. Of course this is coming from the mind of a Mechanical engineer in the industrial machinery industry who now spends most of his time developing the controls architecture for some pretty advanced machinery. I'm probably a little tainted by getting to do whatever I want in our one-off machinery...

The discussions here about MAXIMIZING displacement have sparked ideas about how to better use the tools the boat has to keep as much weight in the boat as possible. Surfing (mostly starboard surfing on my boat) I've gotten happy that has me running more surf plate than most as a way to induce roll without sacrificing as much displacement. Last weekend I was running 70% surf plate and letting autowake manage the ballast, which ended up at like 80% on the non-surf side and we had a monster behind the boat - I wish i had pictures... Applying a similar theory to the smart plate, my boat is always imbalanced to the rear - I don't usually take my lead and/or external ballast with me because of the way we use the boat - I'm running 35-40% smart plate to keep pitch under control but keep as much weight as possible in the boat. I'm targeting 3.5 degrees roll and 10 degrees pitch at the moment.

That leads me to my "wish list". Maybe these things are included with the Supra's rider profiles that we don't get in "cheap boat" land... Number 1 is saving the smart plate and amplitude settings with the different modes (surf Stbd, surf port, and wakeboard). I've gotten burned several times now by hopping in the water to surf after switching from wakeboard and the AMP setting staying at what I had it set for wakeboarding (typically 60% for me, whereas I want 100% for surf) and the boat dumps ballast on me... Same thing with the smart plate, but this happens even more often since we switch back and forth between AW off and AW surf Stbd much more often. I typically use the smart plate while cruising to do what I can to optimize the running surface for fuel efficiency versus ride/water conditions. It happens to me frequently after ripping that glassy "last ride in" on the way home on a Sunday evening on a wakeboard, then getting the boat back out on Friday night for an evening surf as soon as we get back to the lake. Then there I am fighting it because I forgot what I did 5 days ago...

My second thought is about including the smart and surf plate settings in AW. If my theory is valid (and I'm still learning a lot there), it's just as useful to manipulate the plates as it is to move ballast around. Any plans to add the control of the plates to the AW arcetecture? I'm sure you can;t say, but I'm certainly excited to start hearing about what's new for 2019 - if the used market stays as wacky as it has been, I COULD be shopping again!

[Idcatfan]

Okay Matt (and anyone else that wants to chime in):

So we’ve now had the boat for about 40 hrs. and I’ve had a chance to play around w/ Autowake and manually for surfing, and I have a few questions:

1. I surf goofy on starboard side and it says my factory defaults are 80 for port surf plate w/ a goal of 5 degrees roll. Does that sound correct? If so, why is there such a difference from regular where the surf plate is set at 65 and roll is -3 degrees? I’ve actually had more success w/ the surf plate closer to 65 on the goofy side.

2. Matt, your tutelage has allowed me to really get the hang of dialing in wakes for others. But when I get behind the boat, others are having trouble getting a good wave for me! I’m really struggling to drop the rope at 6’5” and 260 lbs. Even w/ autowake, the pocket is tiny and I only feel like I get any decent push RIGHT behind the boat! I’m riding a 5’ Doomswell Neo and we normally have about 500 lbs. of person weight beyond full or nearly full ballast. Is there just not enough displacement w/o me in the boat? I seem to do a bit better w/ speed above our typical 10.7 mph cruising speed (11.3). Would going faster help? Any other tips?

[Stazi]

Okay Matt (and anyone else that wants to chime in):

So we’ve now had the boat for about 40 hrs. and I’ve had a chance to play around w/ Autowake and manually for surfing, and I have a few questions:

1. I surf goofy on starboard side and it says my factory defaults are 80 for port surf plate w/ a goal of 5 degrees roll. Does that sound correct? If so, why is there such a difference from regular where the surf plate is set at 65 and roll is -3 degrees? I’ve actually had more success w/ the surf plate closer to 65 on the goofy side.

2. Matt, your tutelage has allowed me to really get the hang of dialing in wakes for others. But when I get behind the boat, others are having trouble getting a good wave for me! I’m really struggling to drop the rope at 6’5” and 260 lbs. Even w/ autowake, the pocket is tiny and I only feel like I get any decent push RIGHT behind the boat! I’m riding a 5’ Doomswell Neo and we normally have about 500 lbs. of person weight beyond full or nearly full ballast. Is there just not enough displacement w/o me in the boat? I seem to do a bit better w/ speed above our typical 10.7 mph cruising speed (11.3). Would going faster help? Any other tips?

I surf goofy and only deploy the port plate a max of 65%. 80% is too much. It sucks and makes the wave flat as shit.


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[goose]

Coming from a background of running wake boats "manually" for most of my life, and now that I've got about 30 hours on Autowake (45 hours on the boat) I'm feeling pretty good about using AW as a tool, but have some reservations - which may actually be ideas for improvement... Actually I think my reservations are about the rest of the controls, not Autowake. Of course this is coming from the mind of a Mechanical engineer in the industrial machinery industry who now spends most of his time developing the controls architecture for some pretty advanced machinery. I'm probably a little tainted by getting to do whatever I want in our one-off machinery...

The discussions here about MAXIMIZING displacement have sparked ideas about how to better use the tools the boat has to keep as much weight in the boat as possible. Surfing (mostly starboard surfing on my boat) I've gotten happy that has me running more surf plate than most as a way to induce roll without sacrificing as much displacement. Last weekend I was running 70% surf plate and letting autowake manage the ballast, which ended up at like 80% on the non-surf side and we had a monster behind the boat - I wish i had pictures... Applying a similar theory to the smart plate, my boat is always imbalanced to the rear - I don't usually take my lead and/or external ballast with me because of the way we use the boat - I'm running 35-40% smart plate to keep pitch under control but keep as much weight as possible in the boat. I'm targeting 3.5 degrees roll and 10 degrees pitch at the moment.

That leads me to my "wish list". Maybe these things are included with the Supra's rider profiles that we don't get in "cheap boat" land... Number 1 is saving the smart plate and amplitude settings with the different modes (surf Stbd, surf port, and wakeboard). I've gotten burned several times now by hopping in the water to surf after switching from wakeboard and the AMP setting staying at what I had it set for wakeboarding (typically 60% for me, whereas I want 100% for surf) and the boat dumps ballast on me... Same thing with the smart plate, but this happens even more often since we switch back and forth between AW off and AW surf Stbd much more often. I typically use the smart plate while cruising to do what I can to optimize the running surface for fuel efficiency versus ride/water conditions. It happens to me frequently after ripping that glassy "last ride in" on the way home on a Sunday evening on a wakeboard, then getting the boat back out on Friday night for an evening surf as soon as we get back to the lake. Then there I am fighting it because I forgot what I did 5 days ago...

My second thought is about including the smart and surf plate settings in AW. If my theory is valid (and I'm still learning a lot there), it's just as useful to manipulate the plates as it is to move ballast around. Any plans to add the control of the plates to the AW arcetecture? I'm sure you can;t say, but I'm certainly excited to start hearing about what's new for 2019 - if the used market stays as wacky as it has been, I COULD be shopping again!

Korey,

Thanks for the suggestions and questions. Glad to hear you are understanding AW better and we are always wanting to hear how we can make the systems better for our consumers. As an engineer, I am sure you can relate, but we have an understanding and knowledge of our system that no one else has. Because of that, what we might think is easy or self explanatory is NOT always the same as someone that is not as involved in the design process as we are. So that is why your feedback is so valuable.

You are correct that some of those differences are available in the Supra "Profiles". You can save plate locations, amplitudes, etc per profile. As a company with 2 brands sometimes we just have to make differences in some areas, but I can also tell you that with more complication also comes confusion. While some consumers LIKE the ability to make all those changes and selections, some consumers find it intimidating. In my personal use, IF you are likely to forget to change amplitude before you jump in the lake, you might be just as likely to forget to change the profiles. I have done the EXACT same thing as you and many times I have pulled my younger boys wakeboarding at a 50% or less amplitude, hit the surf switch WITHOUT changing amplitude and then once the boat got to speed, I instantly realized I forgot to change amplitude. Now, I always think to first pick discipline, second pick amplitude, third pick speed. If you do that, then that is all you really need. We did make a few small changes for 2019 and I can't really get into that yet, but it might help a little. But I do like your feedback. We will continue to try and figure out what is the right balance for Moomba. We do want to make it as easy as possible to operate, but we also want to keep it simple and non-intimidating for the people that are not as familiar with all the controls that can be adjusted.

As to your plates, it looks like I need to give another explanation on that. We are right in the middle of model change right now but I will try and give a better explanation on that soon.... Stay tuned...

[goose]

Okay Matt (and anyone else that wants to chime in):

So we’ve now had the boat for about 40 hrs. and I’ve had a chance to play around w/ Autowake and manually for surfing, and I have a few questions:

1. I surf goofy on starboard side and it says my factory defaults are 80 for port surf plate w/ a goal of 5 degrees roll. Does that sound correct? If so, why is there such a difference from regular where the surf plate is set at 65 and roll is -3 degrees? I’ve actually had more success w/ the surf plate closer to 65 on the goofy side.

2. Matt, your tutelage has allowed me to really get the hang of dialing in wakes for others. But when I get behind the boat, others are having trouble getting a good wave for me! I’m really struggling to drop the rope at 6’5” and 260 lbs. Even w/ autowake, the pocket is tiny and I only feel like I get any decent push RIGHT behind the boat! I’m riding a 5’ Doomswell Neo and we normally have about 500 lbs. of person weight beyond full or nearly full ballast. Is there just not enough displacement w/o me in the boat? I seem to do a bit better w/ speed above our typical 10.7 mph cruising speed (11.3). Would going faster help? Any other tips?

Ok, I will try to answer your questions, but I will do it with another "long winded" explanation. haha

Most people understand that by moving the plate down (higher #) that it will help "roll" the boat. However, what most people don't understand is that when you move the plate down you also create lift. And lift is basically the opposite of what displacement is trying to do.

So, what you really need to do is experiment with how much roll relative to how much lift you want to create when you use the plate. Here is what I recommend....

Start with your current best setup. In this case you are talking about having the port plate set at 80%. Let AutoWake do its thing and see how the wake looks and feels. Then go into manual mode and on the controls page slowly move the port plate all the way down to 100% by moving it 5% at a time. Then, move the plate all the way to 0%, again 5% at a time. As you do that you can physically watch the shape of the wave change. If you turn on AutoWake, you would also see both the roll AND pitch change as you did that (you can't adjust plates with AW on, so you would have to turn on each time). As you do that what you will find is there will be a range of where the wave looks best. It is likely the wave will be completely washed out from 0-35%. Then around 40% it will start to clean up and then about 85%, it will start to lose any lip to the wave. Now you will see based on your current ballast setup, what the range of plate you can be. Truth is you will get the most push on the low side of that range and the most length on the high side of that range.

As an fyi, your factory default should be 70% on port plate, NOT 80%. For your size and your desire for push, I would first recommend adding MORE displacement. Remember, NO replacement for Displacement. Then, I would recommend you move the plates as low as they can to give you max push. I have obviously not ridden your exact board, but I would think a larger board might also help if you want more push. I have ridden some Doomswell boards and they seem to have a lot of buoyancy, but without knowing your ability to pump the wave, I can't really say if that is the right board or not.

I have said this before, but I do NOT recommend you move your plates too much. We have found that 60% on stbd plate works MOST of the time for most people and 70% on the port plate works MOST of the time for most people. And as I said, moving the plates changes both roll and pitch. So, while you can fine tune with the plates, any movement of the plate will need to be taken into consideration with ballast locations and amounts. Less plate and you might need to put MORE weight on the surf side and less weight in the front. But the same is also true about displacement. As you add more displacement, then you can move that displacement and that does about the same thing as moving the plate. Do you see how this gets confusing??? Here is my general recommendation....first, ALWAYS add more weight. If you want to surf, then you really need to have at LEAST 70% of your full capacity in the boat. 80% or 90% capacity and the wave gets really nice. And truth is that applies to all boats and all brands. It is just basics of lift vs displacement. Second, if you just do NOT have displacement, then slowly raise the flow plates. This will allow you to get max displacement with less lift. If I only have a few people in my boat, then I might fine tune plates, but I typically also run enough ballast to never have to mess with that.

Ok, good luck. Hope that helps.

[Snowslydder]

In my personal use, IF you are likely to forget to change amplitude before you jump in the lake, you might be just as likely to forget to change the profiles. I have done the EXACT same thing as you and many times I have pulled my younger boys wakeboarding at a 50% or less amplitude, hit the surf switch WITHOUT changing amplitude and then once the boat got to speed, I instantly realized I forgot to change amplitude. Now, I always think to first pick discipline, second pick amplitude, third pick speed.

When you say change amplitude are you talking about adding weight to the boat or is there a setting I have missed entirely.

[Stazi]

When you say change amplitude are you talking about adding weight to the boat or is there a setting I have missed entirely.

The 2018 software lets you set the displacement with the menu buttons on the main page. More amplitude means the program will add more ballast. And vice versa.


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[chezdude]

To questions:

1) What is the latest version of the firmware available? I just flashed 20171121,and I think it’s the most recent but wanted to check.
2) in the new firmware, there is a dealer setting option that is looking for a code to tell it the boat model. It defaulted to 0000 which makes the system think it’s a Helix, but it’s a Craz. What is the proper code for the Craz and what does this really do to the system? Does it preset the AW settings or something?

Thanks,
Heath

[stevemarich]

At the moment that does nothing for the system, it is for future changes when their are actually different setting/ features for different models, you can probably have your dealer input the code and change the setting to a craz, hence dealer settings, requires a code to change settings, , but it will not affect anything other than it will say craz instead of helix.

[Stazi]

To questions:

1) What is the latest version of the firmware available? I just flashed 20171121,and I think it’s the most recent but wanted to check.
2) in the new firmware, there is a dealer setting option that is looking for a code to tell it the boat model. It defaulted to 0000 which makes the system think it’s a Helix, but it’s a Craz. What is the proper code for the Craz and what does this really do to the system? Does it preset the AW settings or something?

Thanks,
Heath

If you have the latest firmware then you will have the amplitude bar on the screen when Autowake is engaged. If you don’t see that, the. You don’t have the latest one. Email me if you don’t and I can send it t you. If you type in 9191 you can select your boat type.


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[Bairum]

If you ordered your boat with the max surf then it came with 900s already. Instead of ordering Enzo’s I would orde a couple of the standard 400s and put them under the seats in the cabin and use a tsunami pump to fill them when you want them. This is MUCH cheaper and it will retain your under seat storage when you are not filling the boar 100% for surfing. Autowake is very useful and I enjoy it on my 2017.


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I have a 2018 Craz with the standard 900s. Do you know if the 400s overlap with standard bags? Does it even matter, as I could just fill the 400s partially full if there is a space constraint?

I would love to upgrade to the Enzo’s but my wife is vetoing that because of the space concerns. Using 400s seem like a nice compromise. In fact, it would seem trivial to just move the cooler and some of the extra ropes/jackets when I use the 400s for surfing.

I plan on measuring it out over the weekend, but any opinions based on experience with this setup would be appreciated.



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[Stazi]

I have a 2018 Craz with the standard 900s. Do you know if the 400s overlap with standard bags? Does it even matter, as I could just fill the 400s partially full if there is a space constraint?

I would love to upgrade to the Enzo’s but my wife is vetoing that because of the space concerns. Using 400s seem like a nice compromise. In fact, it would seem trivial to just move the cooler and some of the extra ropes/jackets when I use the 400s for surfing.

I plan on measuring it out over the weekend, but any opinions based on experience with this setup would be appreciated.



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400’s will take up all the side underseat space in the Craz. I just ordered 500# of moveable “lead” weight from wakeballast.com instead.


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[rdlangston13]

I have a 2018 Craz with the standard 900s. Do you know if the 400s overlap with standard bags? Does it even matter, as I could just fill the 400s partially full if there is a space constraint?

I would love to upgrade to the Enzo’s but my wife is vetoing that because of the space concerns. Using 400s seem like a nice compromise. In fact, it would seem trivial to just move the cooler and some of the extra ropes/jackets when I use the 400s for surfing.

I plan on measuring it out over the weekend, but any opinions based on experience with this setup would be appreciated.



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On our Mojo the 400s fit just right with no room to spare, not sure about how much space is in the Craz.


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[Horwitz]

400’s will take up all the side underseat space in the Craz. I just ordered 500# of moveable “lead” weight from wakeballast.com instead.


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Please criticize sinkable ballast so much. But I have 7 additional concrete bags I move to the rear left sun deck for surfing with only a driver. Love it. 2014 mondo, stock 1300 lb ballast, original wake system.


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[Idcatfan]

Thanks Stazi. And Matt, thank you as well as what you’re saying does make sense.

Matt: I’m not sure how my port plates got to the default of 80%. Like you guys said, I’ve found the wave to be better at 60-65%.

Also, my default roll for goofy surfing is set to 5 degrees. Does this sound correct? Isn’t it supposed to be 3 degrees?

[Stazi]

Thanks Stazi. And Matt, thank you as well as what you’re saying does make sense.

Matt: I’m not sure how my port plates got to the default of 80%. Like you guys said, I’ve found the wave to be better at 60-65%.

Also, my default roll for goofy surfing is set to 5 degrees. Does this sound correct? Isn’t it supposed to be 3 degrees?

For goofy 5° works well for me. And for natural foot we increased it to -4.5°


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[Bairum]

Is there a reference doc by boat on what the “standard”recommendations or factory port/starboard plate percentages are for surfing?

I know you can reset the autowake settings to factory defaults, but not the plate settings when you are running without autowake?


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[Idcatfan]

Is there a reference doc by boat on what the “standard”recommendations or factory port/starboard plate percentages are for surfing?

I know you can reset the autowake settings to factory defaults, but not the plate settings when you are running without autowake?


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Haven’t seen a reference anywhere that lists this, as that’s one of the reasons I asked Matt and the board above. I would like to see this published in the manual going forward though, just in case one of the drivers in our boats inadvertently screws all the settings up.

I have found this from Wake 9 on the interwebs, however. Yes, he’s discussing his preferred settings for the Supra, but I see no reason why that wouldn’t extrapolate to Moomba’s Autowake system as well.

https://youtu.be/E3MFCQ8lPiQ

[Idcatfan]

Also found this link as well. It’s old school (? before SC bought the technology), but it gives a really good, though somewhat cheesy, visual of several things Matt has been explaining.

https://youtu.be/cT0o_WOV4RU

[goose]

Hey guys. The factory defaults for current boats is 70% port plate (for surfing goofy) and 60% stbd plate (for surfing regular). That should be in the owners manual, but if not, I will see if we can add it....

On the pitch and roll, that should also be in the manual, but should also display on the screen. The goofy roll is 5 degrees and the regular roll is 3 degrees. Pitch is 9 degrees for both.

The difference in plate deflection and roll is because of prop rotation and having to roll more because of it.

As some have mentioned, you might find different roll angles work better. For example, if you surf regular all the time, then maybe 4 or 5 degrees works better. If you want to transfer a lot, then maybe less roll works better. But rolling the boat is how the surf wave is created so you will just have to find what roll angle is best for you.

Also, I can't mention roll without again mentioning displacement. Most of you are starting to understand how much I stress displacement. IF you don't have much displacement, then you should stick pretty close to the factory defaults. However, as you start adding more displacement, then you can start experimenting with different angles. Moving the roll to a drastic angle WITHOUT adding displacement will very likely give you WORSE waves. The reason for that is because if you don't add roll with passenger weight, then the only way AutoWake can achieve a drastic roll will be to DRAIN ballast on other side. Roll without displacement will ALWAYS result in small waves. It might "look" better, but it will not have push. On the flip side of that, a boat with a LOT of displacement might not have roll perfect and the wave may not "look" perfect, but the overall displacement will generate push and when surfing, the main thing people complain about is not enough push. Pitch and Roll really have very little to do with push. Push is almost 100% displacement.




Haven’t seen a reference anywhere that lists this, as that’s one of the reasons I asked Matt and the board above. I would like to see this published in the manual going forward though, just in case one of the drivers in our boats inadvertently screws all the settings up.

I have found this from Wake 9 on the interwebs, however. Yes, he’s discussing his preferred settings for the Supra, but I see no reason why that wouldn’t extrapolate to Moomba’s Autowake system as well.

https://youtu.be/E3MFCQ8lPiQ

[goose]

I haven't seen that video in quite a while but I do think it does a great job of explaining the need for AutoWake.

As an fyi, for those that didn't know, AutoWake was invented and patented by Richard and the crew at Waketouch. In fact, that is Richard narrating the video and I think that is his family as models in the video. At the time, we were also working on an AutoBallast system and as soon as we met Richard, we joined a partnership and eventually Skiers Choice bought the original AutoWake patents. Since that day, we have continued our partnership and have filed and received many additional patents such as for the draft sensor, amplitude bar, as well as many others I can't discuss at this point. I have said this before, but I consider AutoWake just the beginning of a new direction in Wake and Wave control. And skiers choice is the only company that has the technology and the protection of the intellectual property associated with it. While we understand many people still don't understand it, or don't trust it, or just simply choose not to use it, I really think in a few years from now, we will look back and see how much this has changed the user interface for helping the boat generate the perfect waves for beginner as well as advanced riders.


Also found this link as well. It’s old school (? before SC bought the technology), but it gives a really good, though somewhat cheesy, visual of several things Matt has been explaining.

https://youtu.be/cT0o_WOV4RU

[LAwake]

On the pitch and roll, that should also be in the manual, but should also display on the screen. The goofy roll is 5 degrees and the regular roll is 3 degrees. Pitch is 9 degrees for both.

Matt, is the regular roll 3 or -3 because on my Helix the goofy side roll is 5 but the regular shows (-3)?

[stevemarich]

Matt, is the regular roll 3 or -3 because on my Helix the goofy side roll is 5 but the regular shows (-3)?-3 or - whatever number works you for regular surfing

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[goose]

Matt, is the regular roll 3 or -3 because on my Helix the goofy side roll is 5 but the regular shows (-3)?Correct, as Steve said -3 or whatever works best. To clarify, i meant 3 degrees roll to port side. Roll to port side shows as negative numbers. Roll to stbd side shows as positive numbers. Some manufacturers use numbers that have no meaning. Ours has a specific and exact meaning. -3 is 3 degrees roll to port. Hope that clears it up.

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[LAwake]

Correct, as Steve said -3 or whatever works best. To clarify, i meant 3 degrees roll to port side. Roll to port side shows as negative numbers. Roll to stbd side shows as positive numbers. Some manufacturers use numbers that have no meaning. Ours has a specific and exact meaning. -3 is 3 degrees roll to port. Hope that clears it up.

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Thanks................

[LAwake]

-3 or - whatever number works you for regular surfing

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/
Thanks, just wanted to make sure the (-) number setting was correct. And yes, with the added ballast/lead I have, my roll number is definitely higher than 3.

[CanadaGuy]

Hi Matt, another good weekend on our new Mondo. We had a couple issues. Given that we’re running a smaller boat with only 2300 lbs of ballast we ask family to come along and watch. (No replacement for displacement) We filled all three sacs loaded up the back surf corner as per one persons suggestion and then started. Autowake did what it is supposed to do to try to get to the right pitch and roll but it did this by draining the ballast in the surf corner that we overloaded. After checking the tanks we realized what was happening. We filled all three tanks again and as soon as we were up to 10.8 mph I started telling people where to move. We got to autowake achieved with max ballast and my daughter surfed for her first time.

I have 2 questions. When the timers think the sacs are empty or full by reading 0% or 100%, do the pumps stop running? After a few cycles I like to let them fill until they start to spit out the side to make sure I’m at 100% and after draining I like to hear them start to suck air to make sure I’m not running the 7 miles back to my marina with an extra 500 lbs on board.

Also, one time after a fall I was cycling autowake off to check ballast and then I started the run in cruise off position my daughter got up but even after turning cruise on I had to manually keep the speed at 10.8. Is there a way to engage cruise after running at speed? If I engaged autowake would cruise take over? I have zero off gps cruise.

By the way, I have to run to my cottage in the rain, at night and on cold days in May and September. I put a running cockpit cover on. I know some purists will cringe but it’s very functional and still looks good with the top on. Check out the pic. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180709/0fef3cf573446ef669da5d878f0c2935.jpg

Thanks.

Dave


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[Stazi]

What the hell....poor boat...


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[mor3naz0]

What the hell....poor boat...


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Frankenmomba


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[CanadaGuy]

My cottage is on an island 7 miles from my marina. I don’t want to leave my boat alone on the island which means it’s gotta make the trip rain or shine. My wife wouldn’t be impressed if I had to tell her we’re going across the lake in 60 degree weather in the rain. I’ve made the trip in snow flurries a couple times. You should see the first top the dealership put on. It was hideous and not what I ordered. They changed it at their cost. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180709/3bdf3d998cb0aef22666cc23685bf656.jpg


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[CanadaGuy]

Still looking for an answer to fill pumps question. Do they stop when the timers hit 100% or 0%?


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[Stazi]

Still looking for an answer to fill pumps question. Do they stop when the timers hit 100% or 0%?


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

Both. On fill at 100% and empty at 0%. Also based on my observations, Cruise will not engage if you have already exceeeded the set speed and then cycle back to cruise control or autowake, and sometimes you have to ease off the throttle too and then re-engage after you set cruise. It doesn’t really like being messed with while underway.


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[CanadaGuy]

Thanks.


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[goose]

Dave,

sorry about delay. We started model change and it is quite hectic over here for a little bit. But hopefully it will all be released soon and you will see why we are so busy...

I think Stazi already answered your question on the pumps, but as always, I will elaborate a little more...

The pumps will turn off when the "timers" stop at full or empty. But that does NOT mean your bags are full or empty. If you didn't know, you can change the ballast timers for each bag and I don't think people adjust those timers enough. If you are having to overfill every time, then you need to add time to the fill. If you have to overdrain each time, then again you need to add time to drain. Getting the timers more accurate will help you make sure you are really optimizing your Displacement. Also, and I have warned this several times, but be careful when overfilling. You should only overfill until you hear water come out. Overfilling for extended periods of time WILL (not can) lead to issues. You can pop fittings loose, damage engine dividers, pop other panels loose, etc. So, try and get your timers to where the ballast is full but not overdraining and you should be good to go.

Also, if you didn't know, if you ever get in a bind where you know the ballast is full or empty, you can reset the gauge to zero or full. It is in the same menu settings and I use it occasionally if my timers get way off.

You also mentioned questions about cruise. If you are running AutoWake, but want to check ballast levels, the best way to do that is to turn on a ballast switch momentarily, then turn switch off. That makes AutoWake inactive, but leaves cruise on. IF you turn OFF AutoWake, then you actually turn off cruise AND your wakeplate will also move to 75%. This drastically changes everything and your wake and speed will be messed up. Next time you are out, try that and see if that doesn't work better.

As Stazi said, IF you have cruise on, then you actually have to slow the boat below cruise before you can manually adjust the speed more than cruise set speed. You should be able to engage cruise at any speed and it will slow down.

Hope that answers your questions....

By the way, I love your boat setup. You guys are hardcore up there and I love that you are using your boat regardless of the weather. That is a true fan!! AND there are many times I wish I had a setup like that. I have tried to park under bridges or other things in the middle of a storm, and I have driven across the lake in the hard rain and nothing stings more than rain against my bald head as you try to run for cover. So, I think it looks awesome!





Still looking for an answer to fill pumps question. Do they stop when the timers hit 100% or 0%?


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[CanadaGuy]

Thanks again Matt. Your clear answers have helped. I’ve read this forum from start to finish and printed all the posts that apply to me to create a reference manual of sorts to bring to my cottage (no internet there and 1 bar on the phone). We had a fantastic day Saturday when I resent the levels to zero and filled the bags until they started to leak out the sides. Then I reset them all to read full so the boat knew where it was. We then scrambled to move people (6 on board) to get to the 9 and -3 before autowake started draining to adjust. It worked great. See the picture of my daughter carving her 3rd time on a board. She actually just gave up when tired. Is there a way I can read pitch and roll in static mode before we throttle up to move people around. Should I be sitting at a certain pitch and roll at idle depending on the side we have a surfer on? That would reduce the musical chairs game with autowake in countdown mode. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180710/bfc812c74e0bf09c177ecf2de7d51955.png

Still haven’t figured out the best setup for skiing but have only tried twice. Having too much fun surfing.


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[goose]

Dave,

I am so excited to hear that you are having great results. That is awesome that you got your daughter riding and looks like she is having a blast. I think as you continue to use the system, you will figure out how to let the system help you become a better driver each time you are out.

You actually ask a great question and I probably should have answered that long ago. The way the system works is there is a look up table (and in case competitors are reading this, all this technology is patent protected...) that is looking at actual pitch and roll while at static and then it estimates where it needs to be to get dynamic results that you are asking for. For factory presets to surf left of 9 pitch and -3 roll, the static pitch should be somewhere between .25 and .5 pitch, and the static roll should be close to 2 degrees. If you just let AutoWake do it's thing, it will get to exactly where it thinks it needs to be, but if you want to speed up the predictive state, you can just try and get passengers located to where you are at .5 pitch and -2 roll and that should get you really close. Keep in mind, that is of course if you are using the factory flow settings of 60 for the starboard flow plate. Also keep in mind that wakeplate % will also affect these. Default wakeplate is 25%. If you run the wakeplate at 0%, then the dynamic pitch will end up a little higher and higher or lower flow plates will affect roll. But again, static .5 pitch and -2 roll will get you close for surfing left.

To surf starboard, you could start with same .5 pitch but you should probably increase roll to about 2.5. Again, that is with flow plate at 70% and wakeplate at 25%.

If you are reading this and you don't use AutoWake, but always set up the boat manually, this should make sense why you typically adjust your ballast to have more weight on the surf side. IF your passengers are sitting neutral, then you have to use the ballast to get this same static roll offset before you take off. So, IF your passengers are truly sitting level, then you are doing the same thing that AutoWake is doing. The beauty of AutoWake is you don't have to assume anything. If you want to leave the passengers sitting where ever they want, then AutoWake will adjust it exactly as it needs. If you want to maximize ballast, then you can tell passengers exactly where to sit. If you don't use AutoWake, and you never adjust your nonsurf side ballast from 80%, then you will NEVER get max displacement. I am sure you can get a good wave, but as I say all the time there is no replacement for displacement, IF you actually had 100% on nonsurf side too, then that is like adding an additional passenger.

I also probably need to stress that not all manufacturers create surf waves the same way. Some manufacturers claim you can sit with the boat level and their "surf system" does all the work. That's good for them and I am sure many people out there prefer those type systems. But our system does NOT work that way. We roll the boat and that is how we create the surf wave. There are advantages and disadvantages to all systems in the market and we feel like our advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Rolling the boat requires a system to lift on one side and requires the boat to run non level. But, the advantage is you can run our boat at different pitch and roll angles and the more you displace, the bigger the wave gets. The disadvantage to some of the other systems is you can't run too much weight in the back (or higher pitch) or the system doesn't work properly. Again, that is the beauty of competition and it gives multiple options to the end consumers. We know some people prefer our competition and never consider our product and that is fine. But hopefully the people that are reading this are in our camp and like our product. I know that got a little long winded but I think it is important for you guys to understand how our system is different and why and that also helps you understand AutoWake a little better.

As far as displaying the predictive values, we thought that would be really complicated if we show different values at different speeds. We want this system to be complex, intelligent, dynamic AND reactive BUT at the same time easy to use. So, we thought the best idea would be to just show actual pitch and roll, and let all the complicated stuff happen in the background. As you said, IF you are quick, you can help the system out before it reacts much. The other idea that I have mentioned before is let the system do it's thing, and at anytime hit a ballast switch so you can toggle AutoWake off WITHOUT turning off cruise. Then when you look at where the ballast levels are, you can fine tune and maximize ballast by slowly moving passengers toward the area that has the MOST ballast. For example, if AutoWake has achieved pitch and roll, then you display ballast levels and the ballast is 100% on port side, 80% on starboard side, and 60% in the front, then IF you want to maximize ballast, you need to move passengers to the back of the boat to let the front fill more, and you can shift passengers to port side to let the starboard side fill more. Be careful, because a little goes a long way. BUT, if you over adjust, you can always shift back the other direction.

Again, these are little things that as you use the system you will learn how to let the system help you help it. hahaha

Good luck!


Thanks again Matt. Your clear answers have helped. I’ve read this forum from start to finish and printed all the posts that apply to me to create a reference manual of sorts to bring to my cottage (no internet there and 1 bar on the phone). We had a fantastic day Saturday when I resent the levels to zero and filled the bags until they started to leak out the sides. Then I reset them all to read full so the boat knew where it was. We then scrambled to move people (6 on board) to get to the 9 and -3 before autowake started draining to adjust. It worked great. See the picture of my daughter carving her 3rd time on a board. She actually just gave up when tired. Is there a way I can read pitch and roll in static mode before we throttle up to move people around. Should I be sitting at a certain pitch and roll at idle depending on the side we have a surfer on? That would reduce the musical chairs game with autowake in countdown mode.

Still haven’t figured out the best setup for skiing but have only tried twice. Having too much fun surfing.


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[Stazi]

Great explanation and this is what I am seeing and finally understanding!


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[CanadaGuy]

Thanks Matt. This will help get us in the green (autowake achieved) faster.

Cheers,

Dave


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[korey]

The other idea that I have mentioned before is let the system do it's thing, and at anytime hit a ballast switch so you can toggle AutoWake off WITHOUT turning off cruise. Then when you look at where the ballast levels are, you can fine tune and maximize ballast by slowly moving passengers toward the area that has the MOST ballast.

I do this a lot, and have screwed myself with it a few times by leaving the boat in cruise only and switching surf sides or something (and the ballast not changing over). I REALLY wish the screens showed ballast levels along with AutoWake info.

[Stazi]

I do this a lot, and have screwed myself with it a few times by leaving the boat in cruise only and switching surf sides or something (and the ballast not changing over). I REALLY wish the screens showed ballast levels along with AutoWake info.

Agreed. I think this should be in a new software patch. Why hide the ballast levels?


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[goose]

Well....

The reason you don't currently have ballast levels on the screen is because of screen size and being able to display everything. When we first launched AutoWake, we thought it was most important to display pitch and roll and NOT have the user focus as much on ballast levels. You have to keep in mind that using AutoWake is a COMPLETE departure from what the industry has been doing for a long time and what all the other competitors are still doing. We were afraid if we mixed in rider profiles and ballast % levels on the screen at the same time then people would NOT understand what AutoWake is trying to accomplish. What we have learned is people STILL don't understand AutoWake and that is why I am trying to post so much on here to clear the confusion.

As everyone starts to better understand AutoWake, then I would imagine you will see versions of software that display AutoWake AND ballast levels. Supra still shows ballast levels because we have the room and I agree it is nice being able to see both ONCE you learn how seeing one can help with the other.



Agreed. I think this should be in a new software patch. Why hide the ballast levels?


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[Bairum]

Well....

The reason you don't currently have ballast levels on the screen is because of screen size and being able to display everything. When we first launched AutoWake, we thought it was most important to display pitch and roll and NOT have the user focus as much on ballast levels. You have to keep in mind that using AutoWake is a COMPLETE departure from what the industry has been doing for a long time and what all the other competitors are still doing. We were afraid if we mixed in rider profiles and ballast % levels on the screen at the same time then people would NOT understand what AutoWake is trying to accomplish. What we have learned is people STILL don't understand AutoWake and that is why I am trying to post so much on here to clear the confusion.

As everyone starts to better understand AutoWake, then I would imagine you will see versions of software that display AutoWake AND ballast levels. Supra still shows ballast levels because we have the room and I agree it is nice being able to see both ONCE you learn how seeing one can help with the other.

Matt
Thank you for the details in this thread. I’m a recent first time Moomba buyer, and we are loving our Craz. In fact, we are logging many more hours on it because it is so much fun. Please take the following as constructive feedback.

Before I bought my boat, I came to this thread to get a better understanding of the technology. It is quite frankly a differentiation for you guys, and a pretty slick one at that. Autowake was definitely a factor when we bought the bought.

That said, you should know that it felt “odd” to me, as a buyer, that I had to come read through hundreds of posts to better perspective of the technology before I bought the boat. I find it even more odd that I have to still do that after spending ~$80K. While that may be chump change to some, it’s a bloody expensive boat and one of the best features has quite frankly terrible documentation (I.e. a massive forum thread where I would bet a very small percentage of owners have actually read through it all).

I, as I’m sure many others, appreciate your willingness to interact with the community, but don’t you think you would solve a lot of the issues of people not understanding your tech if you provided proper/detailed but concise details or documentation through a manual, a PDF (by year or software version), or better yet, a wiki for ecosystem collaboration?

To not show ballast levels, which we all know is just timed based value but extremely useful values for an expensive wakeboarding/surfing boat until or “ONCE” we (the community) “learn” is counter intuitive and disappointing to say the least. It’s ridiculous that we have to dig through hundreds of thread posts to a) understand the tech or to b) see the quick workarounds such as to see ballast levels all while surfing. I understand the space argument considering the size of the screen, but if you actually wanted to provide it, 3 small values do not need fancy graphics or a ton of space.

If you want us (the community) to understand something as a prerequisite for something this basic, then please provide a proper means for us to collectively learn and understand. I don’t agree with your stance, but then again, I’m not in your shoes.

Lastly, don’t take this as negative feedback or as a complaint. It’s awesome that you are in the forums responding to questions, it’s an awesome community and you guys make a fantastic boat.

Regards
Riaan



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[Stazi]

Matt
Thank you for the details in this thread. I’m a recent first time Moomba buyer, and we are loving our Craz. In fact, we are logging many more hours on it because it is so much fun. Please take the following as constructive feedback.

Before I bought my boat, I came to this thread to get a better understanding of the technology. It is quite frankly a differentiation for you guys, and a pretty slick one at that. Autowake was definitely a factor when we bought the bought.

That said, you should know that it felt “odd” to me, as a buyer, that I had to come read through hundreds of posts to better perspective of the technology before I bought the boat. I find it even more odd that I have to still do that after spending ~$80K. While that may be chump change to some, it’s a bloody expensive boat and one of the best features has quite frankly terrible documentation (I.e. a massive forum thread where I would bet a very small percentage of owners have actually read through it all).

I, as I’m sure many others, appreciate your willingness to interact with the community, but don’t you think you would solve a lot of the issues of people not understanding your tech if you provided proper/detailed but concise details or documentation through a manual, a PDF (by year or software version), or better yet, a wiki for ecosystem collaboration?

To not show ballast levels, which we all know is just timed based value but extremely useful values for an expensive wakeboarding/surfing boat until or “ONCE” we (the community) “learn” is counter intuitive and disappointing to say the least. It’s ridiculous that we have to dig through hundreds of thread posts to a) understand the tech or to b) see the quick workarounds such as to see ballast levels all while surfing. I understand the space argument considering the size of the screen, but if you actually wanted to provide it, 3 small values do not need fancy graphics or a ton of space.

If you want us (the community) to understand something as a prerequisite for something this basic, then please provide a proper means for us to collectively learn and understand. I don’t agree with your stance, but then again, I’m not in your shoes.

Lastly, don’t take this as negative feedback or as a complaint. It’s awesome that you are in the forums responding to questions, it’s an awesome community and you guys make a fantastic boat.

Regards
Riaan



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[emoji106]


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[goose]

Matt
Thank you for the details in this thread. I’m a recent first time Moomba buyer, and we are loving our Craz. In fact, we are logging many more hours on it because it is so much fun. Please take the following as constructive feedback.

Before I bought my boat, I came to this thread to get a better understanding of the technology. It is quite frankly a differentiation for you guys, and a pretty slick one at that. Autowake was definitely a factor when we bought the bought.

That said, you should know that it felt “odd” to me, as a buyer, that I had to come read through hundreds of posts to better perspective of the technology before I bought the boat. I find it even more odd that I have to still do that after spending ~$80K. While that may be chump change to some, it’s a bloody expensive boat and one of the best features has quite frankly terrible documentation (I.e. a massive forum thread where I would bet a very small percentage of owners have actually read through it all).

I, as I’m sure many others, appreciate your willingness to interact with the community, but don’t you think you would solve a lot of the issues of people not understanding your tech if you provided proper/detailed but concise details or documentation through a manual, a PDF (by year or software version), or better yet, a wiki for ecosystem collaboration?

To not show ballast levels, which we all know is just timed based value but extremely useful values for an expensive wakeboarding/surfing boat until or “ONCE” we (the community) “learn” is counter intuitive and disappointing to say the least. It’s ridiculous that we have to dig through hundreds of thread posts to a) understand the tech or to b) see the quick workarounds such as to see ballast levels all while surfing. I understand the space argument considering the size of the screen, but if you actually wanted to provide it, 3 small values do not need fancy graphics or a ton of space.

If you want us (the community) to understand something as a prerequisite for something this basic, then please provide a proper means for us to collectively learn and understand. I don’t agree with your stance, but then again, I’m not in your shoes.

Lastly, don’t take this as negative feedback or as a complaint. It’s awesome that you are in the forums responding to questions, it’s an awesome community and you guys make a fantastic boat.

Regards
Riaan



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThanks for the feedback. We appreciate all feedback whether good or bad. I completely agree we need to provide our customers with more info and thats the main reason i post on here so much. I think most know this but i work in product development not sales or marketing. I will relay that info and hopefully we can continue to provide better materials up front. As to product, we will continue to push that as well and i think you will see nice improvements on the 2019 product, AND we are continuing to try and make as many improvements retrofittable where we can.

Glad you are enjoying your boat. Hope you have a great summer with it!

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[parrothd]

Thanks for the feedback. We appreciate all feedback whether good or bad. I completely agree we need to provide our customers with more info and thats the main reason i post on here so much. I think most know this but i work in product development not sales or marketing. I will relay that info and hopefully we can continue to provide better materials up front. As to product, we will continue to push that as well and i think you will see nice improvements on the 2019 product, AND we are continuing to try and make as many improvements retrofittable where we can.

Glad you are enjoying your boat. Hope you have a great summer with it!

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Couldn't agree more, the whole screen setup design is confusing and combersum. There's a ton of wasted space, it annoying how small the most important numbers are, for me it's the depth, and wake plate numbers.

I havent actually used auto wake, I just set the wave manually, but each time I look at auto wake screen I'm like wtf?

[parrothd]

I think you need to have some testers outside your group to get a better perspective. I always use the test, could my mom understand this?

[Stazi]

I think you need to have some testers outside your group to get a better perspective. I always use the test, could my mom understand this?

Correction, can my wife understand this?!


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[CanadaGuy]

Best weekend yet with the Mondo. Here’s the steps we used to let Autowake run the show but help it get the biggest wake.
1. Fill all three stock ballast to 100%. I actually increased my timers to 6:30 on the rear and 10:30 on the front to make sure we had water spitting out the sides before the timers hit 100% and turned off.
2. Set the switch to the side we were going to start on and told my six passengers to sit towards the back corner of the surf side.
3. Turned on Autowake in static mode and checked pitch and roll. Moved people around to get to -2 roll and 0.5 pitch. This is autowake’s Static Autowake Achieved target for regular surfers. We moved around quickly before Autowake had a chance to drain any ballast.
4. Throttle up but have 1 or 2 people ready to move. As soon as you hit speed and the Autowake countdown started move a few people to get to the magical 9 degrees of pitch and -3 roll (or within a half degree).
5. Let Autowake do it’s job and enjoy the surf.
6. Whenever the surfer fell we’d check tanks by flipping one ( or all three) to fill. We found that very little ballast had drained (less than 3 %) in most cases.
We’d refill tanks after every fall and leave autowake off while returning to get the surfer as people were often up or moving around and we didn’t want Autowake trying to achieve static mode while we were bobbing in the waves.

Doing this we’re we’re able to get a great wake out of our little boat with just the stock 2300 lbs of ballast, no lead and about 1000lbs of people in the boat.

A few pointers. If I was filling the tanks and water started to overflow, we’d turn off the fill and set that timer to 100%. That way the boat knew it was full and also the drain timer would make sure it ran long enough to drain at the end of the day.

I also calibrated my roll first thing yesterday morning, first with a level in the boat and just me moving the seats around to get the boat level. Then testing at 18mph with zero ballast and watching for a perfectly symmetrical wake. My inclinometer was out 2 degrees.

Matt I can I check the pitch the same way, with a level on the floor of the boat? Obviously I can’t check pitch while running.

I had one other issue. I got a white screen in my navigation screen and then when I tried to go back to the home screen, my screen went dark. When I was back at the dock, I turned the boat off and on but still no screen. Only turning the battery master switch to off, then back on allowed my screen to reboot. It happened again later today and when trying every button I accidentally turned on my cruise and we slowed down to 11 mph. So the computer is still working, it’s just my screen going down.

Any ideas out there?


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[Cassandra Sammons]

just want to echo a previous posting. I have a brand new Moomba Craz 2017 and I was completely confused what autowake was and how to use and I googled Moomba autowake and found this--it's been great! It would be really helpful if I had known about this sooner :) I also have one question. Sometimes when we are surfing we are forced to turn by another boat in our path....the wave consistently falls apart and I essentially have to stop and restart to get a surfable wave. Is there anything I can do? Thanks!

[Stazi]

Interesting that you say you have to stop completely.
The wave will definitely change shape if you are making turns, and I have found that if you turn into the direction of the side the wave is on it will flatten out and conversely if you turn away from the wave, it will steepen. But as soon as you straighten out the wave will be as it was before you started turning. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do, to keep the wave perfectly the same, if you are making turns. This is because the tilt of the boat directly influences wave shape.
On our lake, at one end we need to make a tight 180° turn (probably a 200’ diameter circle), and when we do, the rider has to come up close to the boat to stay in the truncated sweet spot, until we complete the turn and straighten out again.


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[CanadaGuy]

Cassandra,

Maybe while you’re turning Autowake is trying to fix your pitch and roll by draining or filling tanks. Then when you straighten out everything is off. One solution would be to flip one of your pump switches to fill for a couple seconds before making your turn. This will turn Autowake off but leave your cruise speed set. Then nothing will change while turning. After you straighten out, your wave should return to exactly the way you had it after the turn. You can turn Autowake on again by pressing the left button. After a countdown, Autowake will become active and start monitoring your pitch and roll and adjusting the ballast levels.

Hope this helps.

Dave


2018 Mondo, stock ballast 2300 lbs

[stevemarich]

Sounds like your surf plate got screwed up, not sure how that would happen buy turning, but my goofy plate was acting up Saturday, I had it set for 80% and stock autowake setting, and would get autowake achieved, but the wave was complete crap. Would stop go again, nothing, then cycled the switch for the plates a couple of times , then it worked, the plate was stuck at 40% even though it said it was at 80%

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[stevemarich]

You might also check what your wakeplate is doing when it does this, I've had mine also go to 100% on its own several times while surfing, with cruise set surfing, and with autowake set surfing, and it would reset back to where I had it set after stopping and going again.

[CanadaGuy]

Hi Matt, the static Autowake target numbers have been a huge help. For those that missed it try to get your boat at .5 pitch and either -2 roll or +2.5 roll depending on the surf side while sitting still waiting for the surfer to be ready. We do this by moving people to reduce the loss of ballast. I didn’t even realize that Autowake was trying to work while we were sitting still. We never got to "static Autowake achieved" before so I assumed that it was just letting me know that "static Autowake active" meant Autowake was ready to start working once we hit cruise speed. I was always a little miffed that I would see Autowake inactive right after throttle up but then I realized that you don’t want Autowake working while your pitch and roll are stabilizing. Looking forward to another great weekend - can't wait for holidays. Our lake has just hit a balmy 68 F. Hope you southerners appreciate what you have...

[LAwake]

Hey guys. The factory defaults for current boats is 70% port plate (for surfing goofy) and 60% stbd plate (for surfing regular). That should be in the owners manual, but if not, I will see if we can add it....

On the pitch and roll, that should also be in the manual, but should also display on the screen. The goofy roll is 5 degrees and the regular roll is 3 degrees. Pitch is 9 degrees for both.

The difference in plate deflection and roll is because of prop rotation and having to roll more because of it.

As some have mentioned, you might find different roll angles work better. For example, if you surf regular all the time, then maybe 4 or 5 degrees works better. If you want to transfer a lot, then maybe less roll works better. But rolling the boat is how the surf wave is created so you will just have to find what roll angle is best for you.

Also, I can't mention roll without again mentioning displacement. Most of you are starting to understand how much I stress displacement. IF you don't have much displacement, then you should stick pretty close to the factory defaults. However, as you start adding more displacement, then you can start experimenting with different angles. Moving the roll to a drastic angle WITHOUT adding displacement will very likely give you WORSE waves. The reason for that is because if you don't add roll with passenger weight, then the only way AutoWake can achieve a drastic roll will be to DRAIN ballast on other side. Roll without displacement will ALWAYS result in small waves. It might "look" better, but it will not have push. On the flip side of that, a boat with a LOT of displacement might not have roll perfect and the wave may not "look" perfect, but the overall displacement will generate push and when surfing, the main thing people complain about is not enough push. Pitch and Roll really have very little to do with push. Push is almost 100% displacement.

Matt, I have a quick question concerning AW and pitch and roll. I've been using AW for the last several weeks and I have to say that I've learned a ton just by watching it and anticipating it's next move. It's made me better as I tweak my wave. I have a 2017 Helix and it's maxed out as far as weight/ballast goes. I'm at the "legal" limit and maxed on on AMP. I know that the default regular surf is 9/-3 with stock ballast. My question deals with pitch and roll now that I'm maxed out on displacement. I've figured out that a lower pitch seems to produce a shorter/longer length wave and higher than 9 equals a steeper/ shorter length wave. My main question is about roll. With me having additional rear weight, lead bags throughout, and more weight in my lockers surf side, my roll is a good bit higher than 3. Is there a point of TOO MUCH roll where the wave isn't shaped correctly/not ideal or is it all just personal preference. Is the (3) roll just the optimal number you guys discovered with the stock ballast? I'm new to surfing so I'm learning. I've got a decent wave now but I want to work to dial it in and get the most out of my boat that I can so I didn't know if there was a point where I shouldn't try to get too much roll or if you want to get as much as you can.

[goose]

Matt, I have a quick question concerning AW and pitch and roll. I've been using AW for the last several weeks and I have to say that I've learned a ton just by watching it and anticipating it's next move. It's made me better as I tweak my wave. I have a 2017 Helix and it's maxed out as far as weight/ballast goes. I'm at the "legal" limit and maxed on on AMP. I know that the default regular surf is 9/-3 with stock ballast. My question deals with pitch and roll now that I'm maxed out on displacement. I've figured out that a lower pitch seems to produce a shorter/longer length wave and higher than 9 equals a steeper/ shorter length wave. My main question is about roll. With me having additional rear weight, lead bags throughout, and more weight in my lockers surf side, my roll is a good bit higher than 3. Is there a point of TOO MUCH roll where the wave isn't shaped correctly/not ideal or is it all just personal preference. Is the (3) roll just the optimal number you guys discovered with the stock ballast? I'm new to surfing so I'm learning. I've got a decent wave now but I want to work to dial it in and get the most out of my boat that I can so I didn't know if there was a point where I shouldn't try to get too much roll or if you want to get as much as you can.

I will try to address this without getting too "long winded". I know some of you give me crap about that. hahaha

You are correct that higher pitch typically results in steeper/shorter waves and vice versa. BUT, as I always say, that all greatly depends on displacement. If you only have factory ballast and 1 passenger, setting the pitch to 11 degrees will NOT result in a steeper/shorter wave. The reason is to get to 11 degrees pitch, with factory ballast and 1 passenger, the only way the system can do that is to drain all the ballast in the front. Draining the ballast reduces displacement. Reducing displacement reduces wake size. So, theoretically the wave SHOULD be steeper, but it will probably be so much smaller that you can't tell the shape.

Same applies to roll. IF you are truly maxed out on displacement and have a LOT of weight in the boat, then you can move the roll to what ever you prefer. BUT keep in mind as you continue to change roll, at some point it will have to drain ballast which reduces displacement, which reduces size. So, if you tried to go to 10 degrees roll, then you couldn't do that without removing ballast on non surf side. Again, without displacement, the wave gets smaller.

We did find that 9 and -3 worked best to get a good shape while also trying to maximize displacement.

Hope that makes sense...

[chezdude]

Matt,

Can I make a feature request for future iterations, not directly tied to autowake? We’ve (the wife and I) have found that it would be extremely helpful to have an indicator for the rudder orientation on the boat. Even an old school needle dial would be great. There are many times that getting everything ready to start and you realize that the boat isn’t heading straight forward because you can’t tell the rudder position. So the boat lurches off to the side and the driver has to do a quick turn of the wheel all while throttling up.

Heath

[stevemarich]

Simple fix, my ex was even able to figure it out, you idle the boat forward before ripping your rider out of the water,, pretty easy to tell which way your rudder is pionted if you do that.

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[Stazi]

Matt,

Can I make a feature request for future iterations, not directly tied to autowake? We’ve (the wife and I) have found that it would be extremely helpful to have an indicator for the rudder orientation on the boat. Even an old school needle dial would be great. There are many times that getting everything ready to start and you realize that the boat isn’t heading straight forward because you can’t tell the rudder position. So the boat lurches off to the side and the driver has to do a quick turn of the wheel all while throttling up.

Heath

There is no sensor on the rudder. As others have said go slow in doe and you will know where you’re rudder is pointed.


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[chezdude]

There is no sensor on the rudder.

No sensor required. Old school manual needle gauge based on rotation of the steering column. Some things are better solved without technology that is expensive and prone to failure.

Heath

[Stazi]

No sensor required. Old school manual needle gauge based on rotation of the steering column. Some things are better solved without technology that is expensive and prone to failure.

Heath

I have an even cheaper solution. Turn the wheel all the way to the left and then count how many turns to go all the way to the right. Then, whenever you are stopped and have the wheel cut all the way to one side (or the closest), turn the wheel half as many turns in the opposite direction. [emoji848]🤨[emoji54][emoji41] and boom you will take off straight. Orrrrrrr if you slowly take up the slack on the rope as the rider prepares to get up, you SHOULD be able to tell how the boat is tracking and adjust accordingly.

Really, it’s not that hard to figure out. How different is it to a car? Do you have a steering sensor and gauge in your car so you don’t accelerate into the curb? Crikey...sometimes I wonder....people with solutions looking for imaginary problems.


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[larry_arizona]

I have an even cheaper solution. Turn the wheel all the way to the left and then count how many turns to go all the way to the right. Then, whenever you are stopped and have the wheel cut all the way to one side (or the closest), turn the wheel half as many turns in the opposite direction. [emoji848]🤨[emoji54][emoji41] and boom you will take off straight. Orrrrrrr if you slowly take up the slack on the rope as the rider prepares to get up, you SHOULD be able to tell how the boat is tracking and adjust accordingly.

Really, it’s not that hard to figure out. How different is it to a car? Do you have a steering sensor and gauge in your car so you don’t accelerate into the curb? Crikey...sometimes I wonder....people with solutions looking for imaginary problems.


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Well played sir!!!


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[rdlangston13]

Well played sir!!!


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I agree it’s not hard to take off straight however a car make it much easier since the caster of the front tires tries to straighten the wheel for you once you start rolling


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[Farmerdes]

Hi All,
I've read about half of this thread, and I'm looking to upgrade to the new Makai, can anyone tell if you can switch surf sides on the fly?

[Stazi]

Hi All,
I've read about half of this thread, and I'm looking to upgrade to the new Makai, can anyone tell if you can switch surf sides on the fly?

Yes you can. You can do it on all the 2017+ Autowake systems.


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[mmmbort]

Is there a way to reset the profile setting back to factory defaults?
I have a Supra SL, it was a demo boat before me so I’m thinking the default settings have been played with as I don’t get the same numbers you guys mention.

[larry_arizona]

Is there a way to reset the profile setting back to factory defaults?
I have a Supra SL, it was a demo boat before me so I’m thinking the default settings have been played with as I don’t get the same numbers you guys mention.

Your SL should have factory presets for wakeboard beginner and advanced as well as wake surf presets, demo boat would not erase these, but they may have saved some custom rider profiles.


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[lidsterl]

Start with your current best setup. In this case you are talking about having the port plate set at 80%. Let AutoWake do its thing and see how the wake looks and feels. Then go into manual mode and on the controls page slowly move the port plate all the way down to 100% by moving it 5% at a time. Then, move the plate all the way to 0%, again 5% at a time. As you do that you can physically watch the shape of the wave change. If you turn on AutoWake, you would also see both the roll AND pitch change as you did that (you can't adjust plates with AW on, so you would have to turn on each time). As you do that what you will find is there will be a range of where the wave looks best. It is likely the wave will be completely washed out from 0-35%. Then around 40% it will start to clean up and then about 85%, it will start to lose any lip to the wave. Now you will see based on your current ballast setup, what the range of plate you can be. Truth is you will get the most push on the low side of that range and the most length on the high side of that range.
.

Just want to clarify... If I've toggled to the so called second screen and we are surfing goofy and AW engaged we will see the Port tab and wakeplate setting. I can adjust wakeplate easily and see wave change. The up/down arrows under the button on dash allow for port plate to move 5% at a time. Is it correct, as Goose mentioned, that you cannot adjust on the fly while AW is engaged?

I can press the up/down arrow and see the numbers move and I swear the wave changes, but maybe the display is changing and the plate is actually staying at the position it was in when AW was engaged and cruise speed reached. We have a 2017 Craz Surf Edition. I have NOT updated firmware, still same firmware that boat came with. Maybe that is the difference. I'm actually updating firmware this weekend so we can calibrate roll independently from pitch

[stevemarich]

Just want to clarify... If I've toggled to the so called second screen and we are surfing goofy and AW engaged we will see the Port tab and wakeplate setting. I can adjust wakeplate easily and see wave change. The up/down arrows under the button on dash allow for port plate to move 5% at a time. Is it correct, as Goose mentioned, that you cannot adjust on the fly while AW is engaged?

I can press the up/down arrow and see the numbers move and I swear the wave changes, but maybe the display is changing and the plate is actually staying at the position it was in when AW was engaged and cruise speed reached. We have a 2017 Craz Surf Edition. I have NOT updated firmware, still same firmware that boat came with. Maybe that is the difference. I'm actually updating firmware this weekend so we can calibrate roll independently from pitchYes that is correct, with the original version software you can toggle your surf plates up and down with autowake engaged, the new software you cannot while autowake is engaged.

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[Stazi]

Yes that is correct, with the original version software you can toggle your surf plates up and down with autowake engaged, the new software you cannot while autowake is engaged.

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Agreed


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[CanadaGuy]

I played around with ballast fill times to make sure my tanks were in fact full when the timers turned the pumps off. I've reset them back to a few seconds longer than factory (6:30 rears and 10:30 bow, vs 6 and 10). I think when I increased the times to fill the drain times also increased. Now that I've set them back to close to factory specs, I think the drain times stayed at the higher settings. Are the fill and drain times supposed to match?
Also, any tips on getting the last of the water out of the tanks before I go for a ski? I can hear them sucking air but if I lift the front of the sac a little more water drains out. Are all drain and fill pumps in the rear of the sac? Should I run at 1500 rpm with the wake plate at 0 to try and get my bow up and drain the last few pounds?

[goose]

I played around with ballast fill times to make sure my tanks were in fact full when the timers turned the pumps off. I've reset them back to a few seconds longer than factory (6:30 rears and 10:30 bow, vs 6 and 10). I think when I increased the times to fill the drain times also increased. Now that I've set them back to close to factory specs, I think the drain times stayed at the higher settings. Are the fill and drain times supposed to match?
Also, any tips on getting the last of the water out of the tanks before I go for a ski? I can hear them sucking air but if I lift the front of the sac a little more water drains out. Are all drain and fill pumps in the rear of the sac? Should I run at 1500 rpm with the wake plate at 0 to try and get my bow up and drain the last few pounds?

The fill and drain times are independent and can be adjusted how ever you like. From the factory, we make the drain timers 30 seconds longer than fill. So, if you changed fill from 6 to 6:30, then I recommend you change the drain to about 7. BUT, if you constantly fill while running and drain while sitting still, then you may want to adjust drain to 1 minute longer, maybe more.

As to draining, yes all drain ports are in the rear of the bag. It is best to drain while running at a higher pitch to force the water down to the back of the bag. You should also check your hose routing and hose orientation. Sometimes if you have picked up the bag, it will twist the fittings into an upward facing position. If the fitting is pointing up, then the bag can only drain to the inlet of the fitting. You may need to twist the fitting to get it as low as possible.

Truth is you will never be able to get every drop out of the bag. But if you get the bag fittings correct and drain while running and drain until they suck air, then that is about the best you can do.

[mmmbort]

Your SL should have factory presets for wakeboard beginner and advanced as well as wake surf presets, demo boat would not erase these, but they may have saved some custom rider profiles.


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I think you can tune the factory presets though so I’m wondering if there is a way for me to double check what those true factory numbers should be? Or if there is just a way to restore original factory settings so I can be sure it’s not been played with?

[z28ke]

If you go to ballast timer screen there should be an option to restore factory presets.

[mmmbort]

If you go to ballast timer screen there should be an option to restore factory presets.

So that only lets you select full or empty on the tanks. I’d like to reset the profiles back to factory settings.

[TracySMojo]

Trying to figure out autowake. Seems to work fine on port side. I surf goofy. This morning i tried to use autowake, have been just filling manually. Auto wake filled my port ballast to 100%, starboard-or surf side- to 0. Yes 0. Had significant list of course to port. What the heck? Only had 4 in boat total. Had setting to stbd side surf, 5% roll yet roll was to port. Tried moving all riders to port and then stbd. Baffled. If I fill manually its perfect, fill to 100 surf side, 80 off and center. Help.

[stevemarich]

Make sure it wasn't set -5% for starboard auto wake. What year is the boat, if it's a 17 and hasn't had new software installed ,there were some glitches like that in the original version
Trying to figure out autowake. Seems to work fine on port side. I surf goofy. This morning i tried to use autowake, have been just filling manually. Auto wake filled my port ballast to 100%, starboard-or surf side- to 0. Yes 0. Had significant list of course to port. What the heck? Only had 4 in boat total. Had setting to stbd side surf, 5% roll yet roll was to port. Tried moving all riders to port and then stbd. Baffled. If I fill manually its perfect, fill to 100 surf side, 80 off and center. Help.

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[TracySMojo]

Make sure it wasn't set -5% for starboard auto wake. What year is the boat, if it's a 17 and hasn't had new software installed ,there were some glitches like that in the original version

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Its an ‘18. Checked and rechecked it was set correct. Went to vessel settings/autowake. Had flow surf toggle correct.

[stevemarich]

That is strange, I wonder if you set it manually were you like it , then turn on auto wake, if it would drain it all out. Possible though is a bad inclinometer, sending false data.
Its an ‘18. Checked and rechecked it was set correct. Went to vessel settings/autowake. Had flow surf toggle correct.

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[trayson]

Matt,

Can I make a feature request for future iterations, not directly tied to autowake? We’ve (the wife and I) have found that it would be extremely helpful to have an indicator for the rudder orientation on the boat. Even an old school needle dial would be great. There are many times that getting everything ready to start and you realize that the boat isn’t heading straight forward because you can’t tell the rudder position. So the boat lurches off to the side and the driver has to do a quick turn of the wheel all while throttling up.

Heath

I agree with the other suggestions. (not to derail this thread). I don't have autowake or launch control. so for my boat it's extremely important to take off with a straight rudder as that affects how fast my wave develops BIG TIME. It's pretty simple like others have said. Turn the steering wheel to full lock, (on my boat) two rotations and it's in the center. 2 more rotations at it's full lock the other direction. My wife nails it (almost) every time.

[parrothd]

Thought I had a great idea, I was thinking making something that attaches to the steering wheel with leds to indicate the rudder orientation. But found this instead.

https://www.davisinstruments.com/product/rudder-position-indicator/

[GeorgiaDoc2]

Matt, I have a question about the AMP bar and the Draft sensor. Does the sensor show potential static or when under power. I have a 2018 Mojo Pro, we were out today and had the bags full 3000 lbs, 1200 lb lead and an additional 850 in passengers. Sometimes when I would look at the AMP bar it would be about 33% then others maxed out. Was sitting here thinking and not sure if it was only when static that it read 33% or so. Any info would be helpful.

[goose]

Matt, I have a question about the AMP bar and the Draft sensor. Does the sensor show potential static or when under power. I have a 2018 Mojo Pro, we were out today and had the bags full 3000 lbs, 1200 lb lead and an additional 850 in passengers. Sometimes when I would look at the AMP bar it would be about 33% then others maxed out. Was sitting here thinking and not sure if it was only when static that it read 33% or so. Any info would be helpful.The draft sensor only reads accurately when the boat is sitting still. As the boat moves, water actually drains out of the sensor due to venturi effect. The system stops reading at 4mph, but if you idle with a lot of weight, it can see the reduced level because it will idle less than 4mph. I would imagine your sensor showed full when sitting still and less when moving. Let me know if that isnt the case...

The draft sensor is also intended to be a per boat sensor. Due to manufacturing tolerances, 2 mojos side by side might have slightly different readings. Thats why we dont display numbers. But the key is to understand where you are today, compared to other days on the same boat and how that translates to performance expectations for that day.

You didnt clarify, but i would assume with all that displacement, you had a great wave!! But if you go out tomorrow without the lead, you would see a lower amplitude reading AND a much smaller wave. Hope that explains it..

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[GeorgiaDoc2]

Matt,
Yes sir we had a great wave! And have had a great wave every time out after reading all of your explanations of how the system worked.
Mark

[GeorgiaDoc2]

Matt, I have another question. Its mostly about wave shape and how to tweak it if needed. The wave I am currently producing has a great amplitude, the part of the wave more proximal to the boat rolls over though instead of coming to the crest with a flatter sharper face, if that makes sense. Not sure how to describe it exactly. It has a good curl to it about half way back. Just some online reading talked about getting the wave to have a sharper more aggressive crest and I do not know first if that is important and second what to tweak on the boat to get that.
Mark

[Stazi]

Do you want it steeper up front or a longer mellower wave? Put down the thesaurus and simplify your question.

And we are talking about a surf wave right?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180802/a27b1b79b04c9db67de5cdc9c43d3b3b.jpg


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[GeorgiaDoc2]

Steeper up front.

[Stazi]

Steeper up front.

Lower your speed or reduce the surfplate deployment amount, I.e. less of it deployed.


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[parrothd]

It also depends on on your riding style and preference, steep can be harder to surf depending on your skill and what your trying to do. A really steep wave is generally really hard for beginners, they tend to go up the wave loose footing and face plant. I ride skim so I prefer a nice gradual, mellow wave. Provides more flats area for skim tricks.

Take a pic each time from the same angle and then see how it rides after a while you'll know what you like.

[GeorgiaDoc2]

Thanks Stazi. That worked just perfectly. Decreased the surf plates by 15 each side and it did just what we wanted. Had a great wave, best yet.
Mark

[Stazi]

Thanks Stazi. That worked just perfectly. Decreased the surf plates by 15 each side and it did just what we wanted. Had a great wave, best yet.
Mark

Awesome!! [emoji41]


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[GeorgiaDoc2]

The draft sensor only reads accurately when the boat is sitting still. As the boat moves, water actually drains out of the sensor due to venturi effect. The system stops reading at 4mph, but if you idle with a lot of weight, it can see the reduced level because it will idle less than 4mph. I would imagine your sensor showed full when sitting still and less when moving. Let me know if that isnt the case...

Matt,
I watched the AMP bar all weekend. Yesterday boat was weighted with the 3000 factory ballast and an additional 2250 in lead, ballast bags and people. The AMP bar both potential and actual were at the top, both static and moving at 11MPH. Today the boat was weighted exactly the same and the AMP bar was about at the bottom third both potential and actual both static and at speed 10MPH. I took pictures of the screen at each time that I could send if needed. Do I have a problem with my sensor?
Mark

[goose]

Matt,
I watched the AMP bar all weekend. Yesterday boat was weighted with the 3000 factory ballast and an additional 2250 in lead, ballast bags and people. The AMP bar both potential and actual were at the top, both static and moving at 11MPH. Today the boat was weighted exactly the same and the AMP bar was about at the bottom third both potential and actual both static and at speed 10MPH. I took pictures of the screen at each time that I could send if needed. Do I have a problem with my sensor?
Mark

Sorry about delay. Been busy trying to get boats built. haha

Sounds like Stazi helped you on wake shape. I think it is in an earlier post, but once you get a lot of displacement, you can definitely fine tune shape by playing with Flow plate position. As you have seen, a little less flow % and the wave gets steeper close to the boat. A little more flow % and the wave gets mellow close to the boat. If you watch, it also affects roll and pitch. So, as you really fine tune it, you need to make sure you get them all how you like it. Factory settings will work for most people, but as some of the other guys mentioned, exactly how steep you like it is very personal.

As to the Amp bar, you can definitely email me pictures, but I think it is still a moving issue. I may not have explained it well enough, but the AMP bar stops reading at 4 mph AND will continue to display that level until you slow back down to less than 4mph. So, if the amp bar is at the top sitting still, then you start idling forward, the amp bar will slowly lower. Then once you get past 4 mph, it will display that until you slow down again. Keep in mind this is actually a complex system and there are filters and data always working in the background, so if you take off one time and get past 4 mph very quickly, then it might not see the reduced amp level. But if next time you take off a little slower, then it catches the lowered amplitude and displays it. Hope that makes sense. Again, the idea behind the amp display is to give you an idea BEFORE you take off of how much displacement you have that day. If you are getting different readings during the day as the boat moves, that is normal and you don't have an issue. If you are getting different results as the boat is sitting completely still with the same ballast and displacement, then yes there might be an issue. Let me know which of these it is.

Hope that helps!

[CoolFed]

Thank you very much for the information!
Long searched for it.

[Thanatos96]

Watching the Supras and Moombas come down the exact same service lines really helps illustrate the difference between Moomba and other “budget” boats.

[schwan]

This might be off a little because this thread has been about '17 and' 18 autowake, but now that the '19s are officially out, what has improved? The website has a lot of marketing, and almost no explanation of what really is better. The price went up almost $500 for the autowake option from' 18 to '19 so does anyone know what autowake with multisensor technology is adding as compared to the' 18s?

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[dakota4ce]

This might be off a little because this thread has been about '17 and' 18 autowake, but now that the '19s are officially out, what has improved? The website has a lot of marketing, and almost no explanation of what really is better. The price went up almost $500 for the autowake option from' 18 to '19 so does anyone know what autowake with multisensor technology is adding as compared to the' 18s?

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Draft sensor, amplitude, bag-full sensors with auto shut-off of pumps when filling, and I think “predictive state” which I am not in the know on.

These are at least some changes I am aware of—not a complete list I am sure [emoji1360].


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[korey]

Draft sensor, amplitude, bag-full sensors with auto shut-off of pumps when filling, and I think “predictive state” which I am not in the know on.

These are at least some changes I am aware of—not a complete list I am sure [emoji1360].


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Draft sensor and predictive state were new for '18. I think the bag sensors and maybe a tweak to the logic are the big changes for '19. I;m sure goose will chime in when he can. I could see the bag sensors alone being the $500 difference - well a market based price. No one else has that!

[schwan]

I was thinking it was the bag sensors, but not sure if there's anything more. I demoed a 19 max and I thought that it was a cool feature.

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[dakota4ce]

There you go! The bag sensors are cool—they kill the pumps and re-hack the ballast percentage to 100%. You still have to have your timers close though, because empty relies on them.

Would be cool if the computer kept track of how long it took to fill and just did that in reverse for empty. Maybe that’s coming? But so far the bag sensors work perfectly.


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[csm]

How do the bag sensors work if you piggyback another bag like an IBS?


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[Stazi]

They are on the overflow, so it might be ok.


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[dakota4ce]

How do the bag sensors work if you piggyback another bag like an IBS?


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In Makai an IBS would be awkward as heck IMHO. Plus I haven’t encountered a too little bow weight scenario yet. It’s got plenty.


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[KnoxMojo]

What the heck is predictive state and what does it actually do? How is it any different than activating a rider profile and waiting on the boat to do its thing? Is in only in use in auto wake? I have read through this thread more than once and still can't figure out what it does and how it helps me on the water.

[larry_arizona]

What the heck is predictive state and what does it actually do? How is it any different than activating a rider profile and waiting on the boat to do its thing? Is in only in use in auto wake? I have read through this thread more than once and still can't figure out what it does and how it helps me on the water.

Predicative state basically takes how you are sitting with people and ballast statically on the water and PREDICTS how the boat will sit dynamically and will adjust ballast before you start your pull so that you hit your pitch and roll targets.

It works and it’s very cool.

Watch the wake 9 interview with goose.


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[larry_arizona]

Predictive state and autowake 2.0 with 6 ballast pumps is basically instant perfect wave and wake every time no matter how people are situated in the boat.

If autowake doesn’t like how the boat is sitting dynamically and can’t adjust ballast to get where it wants to be, it will tell you where to move weight in the boat.

It messes with the guys who are manual set up pros, but really mimics what pros already do.

It makes a newb driver “good” out of the box while teaching what makes a good wave/wake.

It only makes a pro better.




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[goose]

Hey guys. Sorry I was out last week on fall break with the kids.

I think all the questions have been answered but I will add a little just to be sure (because I like typing sooo much...haha)

As the other guys have said, predictive state works by "predicting" where the boat will be dynamically and moves the ballast when the boat is sitting still to try and get ballast correct before you ever take off. For example, if the Autowake is set to surf on the starboard side at 5 degrees to starboard, then based on our testing, we know the boat needs to be sitting close to 2.5 degrees to starboard so that once the boat gets going and flow plates are working, the boat should be close to 5 degrees. As I say all the time, the biggest confusion with surf boats these days are how passengers and gear affect displacement and roll. If all the passengers are sitting exactly level in the boat AND you have a cooler full of beer on the port side, then the boat is probably sitting at a roll TO the port side. It is almost impossible for a person to look at the boat and see a difference sitting still of 1 or 2 degrees. 1 or 2 degrees may not seem like much roll, but in the Surfing world, a half a degree of roll can be the difference in having a surf wave and NOT having a surf wave. So, before predictive state, with people sitting as described, the boat would take off, AutoWake would see that we are actually running at a 0 or 1 degree roll, and then it would have to drain ballast on the port side (assuming all ballast is full) to offset the passengers NOT sitting in the optimized spot. And this takes a while. While the ballast is moving, the rider is frustrated because the wave does not look good and I am sure everyone has been in this position. Then after a few minutes, the ballast has drained maybe 15-20% on the non surf side, the boat is sitting at proper roll and everything is relatively good.

The difference with predictive state is as soon as you turn the key on, AutoWake sees that you are sitting at the wrong roll. So, it starts draining on non surf side immediately. If you really want to be an expert driver, then the driver sees this and immediately knows that we should actually move passengers toward side with 100% ballast, moves a passenger to starboard side, predictive state shows you are good on roll, you take off, the wave is perfect and with passengers sitting in optimized locations, you also have max displacement. Lets say the driver doesn't look at the dash or no one wants to move. Again, no problem, while the rider is getting ready with jacket, rope, drinking his last sip of beverage, etc, the ballast is moving and now with 6 pumps, within a minute or so, predictive state has roll correct and as soon as you take off, the wave is correct.

Again, all that was in 2018, but if people were confused about how it works, hopefully that gives more clarity.

As to 2019, the biggest change was the ballast sensors. Again, I think that has been covered, but on most boats, the rear sensors are tubes that measures the actual level of the water. Currently, the software is setup so that when the bags are completely full in the rear, because the sensor sees it is full, then it turns off pumps and resets gauge to 100%. On some boats, the rear sensors and front sensors are flow sensors that measure when water starts to flow out the overflow. Those work similar in that when the ballast is full and flowing out, then it turns pump off and resets gauges so that you can not OVERFILL the ballast and cause other issues like busted bags or fittings. We do have several things in the works for the future, but we don't want to show our hand on all that yet. Believe it or not, sometimes our competitors go on this forum just to see if they can learn anything so not planning on giving them too much info. Just know that we are trying to keep pushing the envelope on technology that actually helps. While the other guys are working on louder stereos, fancy strobing RGB lights, and seats that are electric, cooled and heated, we are trying to keep focusing on actual performance related stuff. We assume that is why people are buying tow boats in the first place....

Ok, hope that helps. Got to get back to work... Hope we have a short winter. hahaha

[trayson]

Okay Goose, I've only had a couple opportunities to ride behind boats with Autowake. The most recent one was very disappointing. It was a stock 2018 Max with the G6 ballast. We had 3 adults, one kid and I was surfing. They set the autowake to 100% amplitude, 100% ballast and I surf regular. It was bad. We tried between 10 and 11mph and while the wave looked fine, I got dropped right off it almost instantly. I am a good surfer and have a really fast board. The wave had no little power that it was worse than my XLV with half the ballast of the Max. to even get a wave I could stay on (with effort) we had to drop the speed to around 9mph and I was almost eating the swim platform. I couldn't really kick my board out sideways because there'd be no way I could recover.

Needless to say I was incredibly disappointed. My friend said the tabs were deployed too far, but wouldn't the draft sensors be able to measure this and not have the tabs deploy so far it'd lift the stern and take all the push away? My XLV with 3000 pounds of ballast destroys the Max wave I was on.

[Stazi]

Okay Goose, I've only had a couple opportunities to ride behind boats with Autowake. The most recent one was very disappointing. It was a stock 2018 Max with the G6 ballast. We had 3 adults, one kid and I was surfing. They set the autowake to 100% amplitude, 100% ballast and I surf regular. It was bad. We tried between 10 and 11mph and while the wave looked fine, I got dropped right off it almost instantly. I am a good surfer and have a really fast board. The wave had no little power that it was worse than my XLV with half the ballast of the Max. to even get a wave I could stay on (with effort) we had to drop the speed to around 9mph and I was almost eating the swim platform. I couldn't really kick my board out sideways because there'd be no way I could recover.

Needless to say I was incredibly disappointed. My friend said the tabs were deployed too far, but wouldn't the draft sensors be able to measure this and not have the tabs deploy so far it'd lift the stern and take all the push away? My XLV with 3000 pounds of ballast destroys the Max wave I was on.

Draft sensor only works while stationery. So if they thought 100% tab was the best and used that too, then it would explain the crappy wave. I have yet seen a need to ever use more than 65-70% surf tab for goofy side and 50-60% for natural foot. Any more and the wave may look nice and smooth but is as flat as a pancake and lacks push.


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[DFTR Josh]

Okay Goose, I've only had a couple opportunities to ride behind boats with Autowake. The most recent one was very disappointing. It was a stock 2018 Max with the G6 ballast. We had 3 adults, one kid and I was surfing. They set the autowake to 100% amplitude, 100% ballast and I surf regular. It was bad. We tried between 10 and 11mph and while the wave looked fine, I got dropped right off it almost instantly. I am a good surfer and have a really fast board. The wave had no little power that it was worse than my XLV with half the ballast of the Max. to even get a wave I could stay on (with effort) we had to drop the speed to around 9mph and I was almost eating the swim platform. I couldn't really kick my board out sideways because there'd be no way I could recover.

Needless to say I was incredibly disappointed. My friend said the tabs were deployed too far, but wouldn't the draft sensors be able to measure this and not have the tabs deploy so far it'd lift the stern and take all the push away? My XLV with 3000 pounds of ballast destroys the Max wave I was on.

This is where AW gets it's bad name an uneducated people trying to use it. Come to UT and I'll show ya a MAX that you will be very happy with. A poorly setup Max sucks to see and hear, I've beat some big names with customer side by side with the Max wave.

[trayson]

This is where AW gets it's bad name an uneducated people trying to use it. Come to UT and I'll show ya a MAX that you will be very happy with. A poorly setup Max sucks to see and hear, I've beat some big names with customer side by side with the Max wave.

I figure it's something they were doing wrong. But they'd owned it a whole season already. So ?

I don't blame them for setting it at 100% and 100%. Seems logical that you'd just MAX out the settings. But that's likely not the case based on what happened. At some point I'll go out again on one probably with the dealer. I was just confused and dumbfounded that we didn't get a good experience.

[goose]

I agree with everything Stazi said. And as I said before, and supported by the length of this thread, even with AutoWake, we are still in an infancy state with many people in the surfing world.

Sorry you had a bad experience on the 2018 Max. But keep in mind that while AutoWake can help, it doesn't completely handicap you either. You can have AutoWake on and still really screw up the wave. This would be my original line of questions...Where did you have the flow plates set? Where did you have pitch and roll set? What was the amplitude display showing for displacement? Did they have GPS or paddlewheel and was the speedo accurate? Was the inclinometer calibrated correctly? I know that sounds like a lot of things that could be wrong, but truth is with any "smart" system, the system is only as good as the inputs and if everything is working properly.

Let me explain how things could go, even with AutoWake on. Lets say you move the flow plates to 90% for surfing on the port side for normal surfing. As I have explained before, the flow plates do roll the boat, but they also create lift which lowers pitch. Lets also assume that you moved the roll for the port surfing to 5 degrees instead of 3. For arguments sake, we will assume everything else is set properly and working properly. In this case, the higher % than normal flow plate not only creates a lot of roll, but also lowers pitch. Typically we use front ballast to lower pitch, so with the plates down, the only thing the system can do is DRAIN front ballast to maintain the same pitch. On the Max, the center bag is closer to center of the boat, so it takes a LOT of water to adjust pitch so in this case, the front ballast might have been less than 50%, and probably closer to 25%. The same goes for port surfing at 5 degrees. With only a few passengers in the boat, I assume 1 is driving, 1 is sitting in passenger side and the other would NOT make much of a difference in roll. So, the 90% plate will probably roll the boat about 3 degrees, but the rest of the roll will have to be made up by again DRAINING the non-surf side. Surfing at 3 degrees, the non surf side probably would not drain much, but to get the extra 2 degrees of roll would have to be made up by probably draining another 50% of the non surf side ballast. Again, I don't know these variables to be the case, but IF this happened, we are NO longer running 3000lbs of factory ballast. We would be running 100% on the surf side (1000lb), 50% on non surf side (500lb), and 25% on front (250lb). So, really we are now only running 1750lb of ballast. You didn't mention passengers, but I assume at least 1 is a female so 3 average adults and 1 child is probably about 500lbs in passengers.

To sum that up, we have 1750lb in ballast and 500lbs in passengers, for a total of 2250lbs, or 750lbs LESS than factory ballast. I say this all the time that there is NO replacement for displacement, so if this was the case, it wasn't AutoWake that was making the wave small, it would have been the lack of displacement that made the wave small. Again, I have no idea if this is close to what happened or not, but that is why I ask what did the amplitude display show? In this case, if we only had 2250lbs of ballast and passengers, then the displacement would have displayed approximately 40%. Again, if you missed it, the amplitude display on the Max is basically a chart of what the Max can handle. At the bottom of the scale is 0 lbs. The top of the scale is 5800lbs. 5800lbs is the combination of factory ballast and passenger capacity. As I have said before, to get a "good" surf wave, you really need to be at least at 70% on amplitude display. On the Max, that means you need to have 100% full ballast in all compartments AND at least 1000lbs of additional passengers or weight. 3 adults, 1 child and with wrong settings simply won't get you there. I know some people may disagree that factory ballast alone should be enough, but that just isn't the case for most people. Again, in your case, you said the wave "looked" good, but didn't have push. That tells me that AutoWake probably did the best it could to get the correct pitch and roll, you just didn't have the displacement. Did I mention how important displacement is????

As to comparisons to the XLV, that isn't really a fair comparison. Keep in mind, the XLV hull is substantially different than the max. It was a narrow hull design and had cutouts in the back compartments that narrowed the running surface even further. For surfing, it would allow the boat to roll pretty easy without the extra lift in the corners. You also said 3000lbs of ballast. Did you mean 3000lbs ballast and passengers, or 3000lbs of ballast plus passengers?? Also, are you just rolling the boat or adding a "suck" gate? See how all these variables add up? Also, the Max is substantially deeper and has a higher overall capacity. I looked it up and on the XLV, the factory ballast was 1450lbs and total passenger capacity was additional 2300lbs. So, total capacity on the XLV would have been 3750lbs. If you are including ballast and passengers in the 3000lb number, then you are actually at 80% on amplitude. So, I would imagine an XLV running at 80% amplitude would have a good wave. Especially if compared to a Max running at less than 50% amplitude.

Hope you don't take this the wrong way Trayson. I know you have been a long time poster on here and a very faithful Moomba owner. I appreciate all your feedback over the years and hope you don't feel like I am being defensive about your feedback. I am just trying to explain how even with AutoWake, it will not create the perfect wave if you don't everything set properly and most importantly if you don't enough displacement...

[kennc]

Goose,

Still kicking the 2017 Mojo. Last software update I did was the November 2017 version I believe.

Anything newer that is backward compatible?

Ken

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[goose]

Actually.....

The 2019 software used in the Max and Helix, SHOULD be backward compatible for 2017 and 2018 model boats. However, the only difference really for 2019 is the addition of the ballast sensors. The software is the easy part, but without the sensors and wiring, you wouldn't notice a difference.

BUT, if you did want to add sensors (flow sensors only) to a 2017 or 2018, you should be able to contact your local dealer and they can contact our parts department about getting the parts necessary to do the install. I have NO idea what we would charge for that but we are working on a kit for those looking to upgrade...

[Stazi]

Also to add don’t think that setting amplitude to 100% and then letting it automatically fill the ballast from empty will mean the bags are 100% completely filled. I have tried this and it stopped the bags before they were truly full.

I ALWAYS fill the ballast manually to the point of overflow, THEN turn on Autowake. This ensures I have max ballast. This issue is also probably worse on the boats with a draft sensor as the weight of the occupants makes the boat sit lower in the water and the Autowake could shut off the fill sequence before the bags are completely full, as it will think the boat is “sunk” enough.



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[trayson]

I agree with everything Stazi said. And as I said before, and supported by the length of this thread, even with AutoWake, we are still in an infancy state with many people in the surfing world.

Sorry you had a bad experience on the 2018 Max. But keep in mind that while AutoWake can help, it doesn't completely handicap you either. You can have AutoWake on and still really screw up the wave. This would be my original line of questions...Where did you have the flow plates set? Where did you have pitch and roll set? What was the amplitude display showing for displacement? Did they have GPS or paddlewheel and was the speedo accurate? Was the inclinometer calibrated correctly? I know that sounds like a lot of things that could be wrong, but truth is with any "smart" system, the system is only as good as the inputs and if everything is working properly.

Let me explain how things could go, even with AutoWake on. Lets say you move the flow plates to 90% for surfing on the port side for normal surfing. As I have explained before, the flow plates do roll the boat, but they also create lift which lowers pitch. Lets also assume that you moved the roll for the port surfing to 5 degrees instead of 3. For arguments sake, we will assume everything else is set properly and working properly. In this case, the higher % than normal flow plate not only creates a lot of roll, but also lowers pitch. Typically we use front ballast to lower pitch, so with the plates down, the only thing the system can do is DRAIN front ballast to maintain the same pitch. On the Max, the center bag is closer to center of the boat, so it takes a LOT of water to adjust pitch so in this case, the front ballast might have been less than 50%, and probably closer to 25%. The same goes for port surfing at 5 degrees. With only a few passengers in the boat, I assume 1 is driving, 1 is sitting in passenger side and the other would NOT make much of a difference in roll. So, the 90% plate will probably roll the boat about 3 degrees, but the rest of the roll will have to be made up by again DRAINING the non-surf side. Surfing at 3 degrees, the non surf side probably would not drain much, but to get the extra 2 degrees of roll would have to be made up by probably draining another 50% of the non surf side ballast. Again, I don't know these variables to be the case, but IF this happened, we are NO longer running 3000lbs of factory ballast. We would be running 100% on the surf side (1000lb), 50% on non surf side (500lb), and 25% on front (250lb). So, really we are now only running 1750lb of ballast. You didn't mention passengers, but I assume at least 1 is a female so 3 average adults and 1 child is probably about 500lbs in passengers.

To sum that up, we have 1750lb in ballast and 500lbs in passengers, for a total of 2250lbs, or 750lbs LESS than factory ballast. I say this all the time that there is NO replacement for displacement, so if this was the case, it wasn't AutoWake that was making the wave small, it would have been the lack of displacement that made the wave small. Again, I have no idea if this is close to what happened or not, but that is why I ask what did the amplitude display show? In this case, if we only had 2250lbs of ballast and passengers, then the displacement would have displayed approximately 40%. Again, if you missed it, the amplitude display on the Max is basically a chart of what the Max can handle. At the bottom of the scale is 0 lbs. The top of the scale is 5800lbs. 5800lbs is the combination of factory ballast and passenger capacity. As I have said before, to get a "good" surf wave, you really need to be at least at 70% on amplitude display. On the Max, that means you need to have 100% full ballast in all compartments AND at least 1000lbs of additional passengers or weight. 3 adults, 1 child and with wrong settings simply won't get you there. I know some people may disagree that factory ballast alone should be enough, but that just isn't the case for most people. Again, in your case, you said the wave "looked" good, but didn't have push. That tells me that AutoWake probably did the best it could to get the correct pitch and roll, you just didn't have the displacement. Did I mention how important displacement is????

As to comparisons to the XLV, that isn't really a fair comparison. Keep in mind, the XLV hull is substantially different than the max. It was a narrow hull design and had cutouts in the back compartments that narrowed the running surface even further. For surfing, it would allow the boat to roll pretty easy without the extra lift in the corners. You also said 3000lbs of ballast. Did you mean 3000lbs ballast and passengers, or 3000lbs of ballast plus passengers?? Also, are you just rolling the boat or adding a "suck" gate? See how all these variables add up? Also, the Max is substantially deeper and has a higher overall capacity. I looked it up and on the XLV, the factory ballast was 1450lbs and total passenger capacity was additional 2300lbs. So, total capacity on the XLV would have been 3750lbs. If you are including ballast and passengers in the 3000lb number, then you are actually at 80% on amplitude. So, I would imagine an XLV running at 80% amplitude would have a good wave. Especially if compared to a Max running at less than 50% amplitude.

Hope you don't take this the wrong way Trayson. I know you have been a long time poster on here and a very faithful Moomba owner. I appreciate all your feedback over the years and hope you don't feel like I am being defensive about your feedback. I am just trying to explain how even with AutoWake, it will not create the perfect wave if you don't everything set properly and most importantly if you don't enough displacement...

Goose, I'm sucking up the knowledge like a sponge! No offense taken. I was passenger on a boat that had been used all season so I was surprised they didn't have it dialed. And yes, everything you said makes sense and sheds WAY more light on it.

The only reason I brought up 3k in my XLV is because 3k of ballast seems to be the point at which most boats really start to be more enjoyable. I actually prefer my wave in my XLV to the same 3k in my buddy's G23. His is a little longer, but mine's bigger and cleaner. And if the ballast on the Max I was on was really that much less than 3k, it makes a ton more sense.

And my wife will appreciate the assumption that she weighs less than a typical guy! LOLOLOL

I do appreciate the speculation to attempt to figure out what was really happening. That's honestly why I posted it in the first place. I wasn't trying to "complain" rather I wanted to understand the WHY and figure out what should have taken place to have a better experience.

And I do appreciate that my XLV is way different. FWIW, I run maybe 500 to 600 starboard, the 1180 bag under the PLAYPEN (did I mention that I LOVE the Playpen bow?!?!?!?! hahahaha) and the rest of it's all along the port from tip to tail. And yeah, I run 3000 to 3300 pretty regularly only in ballast. So comparing a dialed XLV to a stock Max where they didn't have the settings optimal is a recipe for disaster.

That said, they put me on the wakeboard behind the Max and put it at 100% 100% and I hucked the first jump and it sent me into another zip code. I got bucked so high that I got off axis in the air and crashed so hard that I was begging them to drain ballast and reduce amp. The wakeboarding wake was insane. No complaints there except that I don't know if I am man enough to handle it Maxxed out!!!

[goose]

Goose, I'm sucking up the knowledge like a sponge! No offense taken. I was passenger on a boat that had been used all season so I was surprised they didn't have it dialed. And yes, everything you said makes sense and sheds WAY more light on it.

The only reason I brought up 3k in my XLV is because 3k of ballast seems to be the point at which most boats really start to be more enjoyable. I actually prefer my wave in my XLV to the same 3k in my buddy's G23. His is a little longer, but mine's bigger and cleaner. And if the ballast on the Max I was on was really that much less than 3k, it makes a ton more sense.

And my wife will appreciate the assumption that she weighs less than a typical guy! LOLOLOL

I do appreciate the speculation to attempt to figure out what was really happening. That's honestly why I posted it in the first place. I wasn't trying to "complain" rather I wanted to understand the WHY and figure out what should have taken place to have a better experience.

And I do appreciate that my XLV is way different. FWIW, I run maybe 500 to 600 starboard, the 1180 bag under the PLAYPEN (did I mention that I LOVE the Playpen bow?!?!?!?! hahahaha) and the rest of it's all along the port from tip to tail. And yeah, I run 3000 to 3300 pretty regularly only in ballast. So comparing a dialed XLV to a stock Max where they didn't have the settings optimal is a recipe for disaster.

That said, they put me on the wakeboard behind the Max and put it at 100% 100% and I hucked the first jump and it sent me into another zip code. I got bucked so high that I got off axis in the air and crashed so hard that I was begging them to drain ballast and reduce amp. The wakeboarding wake was insane. No complaints there except that I don't know if I am man enough to handle it Maxxed out!!!

Well, I am glad you didn't take my response the wrong way. You know how texts and emails can be taken the wrong way sometimes and I was trying to help explain, not defend so glad we are on the same page...

As to your XLV, I loved that boat. That was one of my first boats where I was trying something different with running surfaces and some of those changes are definitely helping you now for surfing. I will be honest that I was originally hoping those changes were for wakeboarding and they did allow you to sink the boat with less ballast (that's why it had the notches) but it made the wakeboard wakes quite a bit steeper once you put a lot of weight in the boat. As I said before, now those notches allow you to sink the boat with less weight as it isn't fighting you with lifting surfaces. It also helps in surfing as the chines are not preventing you from rolling the boat. We have changed our running surfaces a LOT since the XLV, but the lifting surfaces on the sides of the chines are WAY different on the Max. That makes the Max a LOT more stable side to side and also makes the wakeboarding wakes have a smoother transition with a longer transition. If you wakeboard mainly behind the XLV, I can only imagine the wakes were a lot different. I can visualize how that probably looked and a lot of people get that feeling when you ride a fully weighted Max at wakeboarding. Wait till you get a set behind a Makai. The Makai is about 700 to 800lbs heavier than the Max and the ballast is an additional 1000lbs. So, it is like hitting that same Max with about 8 more passengers!! Keep in mind longer boats do require more ballast, but I think you get the point. Lets just say during the validation testing, we had the Makai totally loaded up and I can say it scared me. Maybe the fact that I am 43 now and more fragile had something to do with it, but I didn't want any of that wake haha

And don't get me started on the playpen. Playpen bows were here when I got here in 2000. I loved them because you could put sooo much ballast in the front and also use that area for storage. The bows were super strong and comfy and I loved the flip up seat backs. The problem was we were the only ones doing it at the time and every year we had so many non-owners complain about having to "walk across" the interior in the front. We eventually gave in to the negative feedback and got rid of them. Now, almost every boat is sold with bow fillers and other guys that used to sell against us having playpens, now make playpens!! hahaha Isn't that the way it goes. Sometimes the people that start something give up because they are the only one doing it. Only to find out later, they were actually ahead of the curve but gave up too soon.

Anyways, back to the point, give it another shot someday, but take this knowledge and help the people you go out with. Honestly, I have gotten on many peoples boats (that they thought were dialed in) and within just a few minutes had them making a wave they couldn't believe. With surfing, many people don't know what "good" really is because they haven't seen it, or even with AutoWake, don't trust the system and try to use someone else's "expert" opinion about how to make it work properly. I tell people all the time, experiment and learn. Fill the ballast all the way, then turn on AutoWake. Next time, turn on AutoWake and see what it does. Let AutoWake TEACH you how to be more experienced and a better driver. Let AutoWake TEACH you how moving passengers helps. Let AutoWake TEACH you how to optimize displacement. Let AutoWake TEACH you how displacement works and where the minimum level is you need. AutoWake is a very impressive system. But if you don't use it right or don't let it teach you, it can't do miracles....

good luck.

[larry_arizona]

Autowake and the surf and wake presets have been nothing short of awesome in the 18SA.

For a newb to this sport driving has been super simple.

I fill ballast 100% pick the preset surf setting, my son jumps in and grabs the rope and the wave is great. Autowake adjusts it automatically and teaches you were to put passengers or extra ballast.


Without autowake as a newb, we would not have been surfing a good wave like we did the first time we tried.

OUTSTANDING system.


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[KnoxMojo]

Honestly, I have gotten on many peoples boats (that they thought were dialed in) and within just a few minutes had them making a wave they couldn't believe.

Goose, feel free to come on over and dial in our SA anytime, hahaha..but really, we only live 2 exits away from the plant on the water.

[shockthis]

Hey Goose
Will the new software for the 19 moombas work on the 18 supra's? Will the new ballast sensors work on a 2018 SL?

thanks

[goose]

Hey Goose
Will the new software for the 19 moombas work on the 18 supra's? Will the new ballast sensors work on a 2018 SL?

thanks

No. While the 2019 Moomba screen shares some of the 2018 Supra screen, the hardware in the boat is all different. You might could load the software on the screen, but the CAN network would not recognize many parts and the software would not work. Sorry about that.

[shockthis]

What about the ballast sensors?

[KnoxMojo]

Goose, I'll take that as a maybe...hahaha

[Stazi]

I wouldn’t want to risk it and brick your ECU!


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[shockthis]

So Basically the Moomba's are backwards compatible and the new software works for them and can get ballast sensors etc, but the guys that have to more expensive line of supra's are SOL for any new software, etc?

[RC_Hinojosa]

So Basically the Moomba's are backwards compatible and the new software works for them and can get ballast sensors etc, but the guys that have to more expensive line of supra's are SOL for any new software, etc?

There was far less of a technological jump from the '17-'18 Moombas, it was mainly bug fixes and the addition on predictive state for Autowake. If you could find a dealer that would help you (not many), you could also add the displacement sensor but it wouldn't be technically supported.

I'm not sure that there is a software release for the '19s that is backwards compatible but I could be wrong.

There was a huge jump between '18 & '19 Supras that would likely necessitate development costs that wouldn't be worth the value.

[98outback]

Goose

Could you post the latest firmware number that works on the 2017’s. I am fixing to take my boat in for service and would like to have it updated. Thanks

[pedel]

So Basically the Moomba's are backwards compatible and the new software works for them and can get ballast sensors etc, but the guys that have to more expensive line of supra's are SOL for any new software, etc?

I asked my dealer about the ballast sensors and he checked with the factory who told them they were not upgradable on my 18 SL. This bums me out...because the one thing that really frustrates me about my boat is the ballast timers. Every time I go out I have to watch for the overflow and manually reset the ballast indicators.


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[Stazi]

As soon as a manufacturer actually adds flow meters to their ballast system, they will patent it and corner that market. I don’t know why Moomba didn’t do this instead of just use a sensor that acknowledges that the bag is overflowing and is full.

With a flow meter on the fill/drain line, you could tell EXACTLY HOW MUCH BALLAST IS IN THE BAGS TO THE OUNCE!


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[goose]

As soon as a manufacturer actually adds flow meters to their ballast system, they will patent it and corner that market. I don’t know why Moomba didn’t do this instead of just use a sensor that acknowledges that the bag is overflowing and is full.

With a flow meter on the fill/drain line, you could tell EXACTLY HOW MUCH BALLAST IS IN THE BAGS TO THE OUNCE!


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Well, it is not exactly that easy. We, and I am sure several others, have looked at the flow meters. While that could work, it doesn't take into account leaks at the bag. If you had a fitting loose or the bag drained, you could measure how much water you put in the bag, how much you took out of the bag, but you couldn't keep up with the water that didn't go through the ballast pump or hose....

Also, while it seems like we are only using a sensor that is working as the bag is overflowing, that is not the case. Some boats only have "flow sensors", but some boats have true ballast sensors that have an actual tube that is measuring the actual water level. I can't go into too much detail but I can tell you that most of it is patent protected and I would imagine someday soon you will see other manufacturers using it as well. And we will continue to use more of the sensor as we develop the proper software to go with all the information we have from the sensor. Right now it adds a lot of value because you don't have to worry about overfilling your bag, but I would say soon, we will have that extremely high accuracy that the industry has always lacked in terms of true ballast sensing that can also work with additional bags or plug and play systems. Like I have said before, the future has a lot of technology in it and I have a feeling you will see a lot of that first on the skiers choice products...

[goose]

Goose, I'll take that as a maybe...hahaha

And KnoxMojo.....we will definitely leave that as a maybe someday... hehehe

[KnoxMojo]

And KnoxMojo.....we will definitely leave that as a maybe someday... hehehe
Sounds like a plan.

[DFTR Josh]

I have said before, the future has a lot of technology in it and I have a feeling you will see a lot of that first on the skiers choice products...
Stoked for the Skiers Choice brand and family.

[[email protected]]

Hello,

We still have snow on the ground up here but I got excited about the new flow sensors for my 2018 Max so I popped into the dealer yesterday to enquire about upgrading. They said that they are working with SC to figure out what will be required but warned me that the upgrade will be expensive for the 2018 Max due to them having to "split the hull" in order to get the necessary access to install the components. That much work would make the upgrade not work doing. Has anybody else been told that's it's more complicated that installing the sensors and upgrading the software?


Thanks

John
2018 Moomba Max
Calgary, Alberta

[parrothd]

Hello,

We still have snow on the ground up here but I got excited about the new flow sensors for my 2018 Max so I popped into the dealer yesterday to enquire about upgrading. They said that they are working with SC to figure out what will be required but warned me that the upgrade will be expensive for the 2018 Max due to them having to "split the hull" in order to get the necessary access to install the components. That much work would make the upgrade not work doing. Has anybody else been told that's it's more complicated that installing the sensors and upgrading the software?


Thanks

John
2018 Moomba Max
Calgary, Alberta

Sounds like the dealer is giving you the we don't want to do it line. Find it very hard to believe to replace a sensor on the newer model you'd have to split the hull.

[rameter]

Goose, just wanted to thank you for all the info you've provided here. I bought my Max last summer and ran manually for the balance of the year. I stumbled across this thread about a week ago and have since been through every post and been able to pull out my boat for a couple hours tinkering with AutoWake on the water. While I can't tell you how the wave performs, I can tell you I'm AMAZED at the technology. The shape of the wave was awesome. The icing on the cake is that SC is putting this tech into a sub-$80k boat. I can't wait for some time behind the boat this spring, especially after putting more weight on top of stock! Thank you.

[Rtown]

I have read the entire thread, and it has been extremely helpful. My only wish is that Skiers Choice had a catalog of videos showing us all how to operate in Autowake.

I have a 2018 Craz and upgrade 1500 pound bags on each side in the back. My first day in the water was today so I was going to get everything set so I can learn Autowake. This is my first boat and really don’t have any experience creating waves. I calibrated the inclinometer and the bags. I only had one other passenger sitting on the port side.

I finally achieved the correct pitch and roll but the wave was terrible. It had a lot of wash and never got clean. I finally adjusted the wake plate on the starboard side to 55 and played with it up to 75. The wave finally got clean.

Does anyone know why the wake plate didn’t adjust to get the wave cleaner?

I ended up surfing but never could get enough push. I am assuming I had enough displacement with the upgraded bags. To be honest I was a bit bummed. But definitely could have been complet error on my unskilled part!

I also have questions about getting Autowake turned on and going so it will fill the bags automatically. I thought I turned it on but the bags would never fill.

[tkskiles]

I have read the entire thread, and it has been extremely helpful. My only wish is that Skiers Choice had a catalog of videos showing us all how to operate in Autowake.

I have a 2018 Craz and upgrade 1500 pound bags on each side in the back. My first day in the water was today so I was going to get everything set so I can learn Autowake. This is my first boat and really don’t have any experience creating waves. I calibrated the inclinometer and the bags. I only had one other passenger sitting on the port side.

I finally achieved the correct pitch and roll but the wave was terrible. It had a lot of wash and never got clean. I finally adjusted the wake plate on the starboard side to 55 and played with it up to 75. The wave finally got clean.

Does anyone know why the wake plate didn’t adjust to get the wave cleaner?

I ended up surfing but never could get enough push. I am assuming I had enough displacement with the upgraded bags. To be honest I was a bit bummed. But definitely could have been complet error on my unskilled part!

I also have questions about getting Autowake turned on and going so it will fill the bags automatically. I thought I turned it on but the bags would never fill.Hopefully I can answer a few of your questions. I was a total newbie last year so I feel your pain. It's a great system, but it's not an "easy button" for surfing. The surf plates deploy to your default settings set in the autowake system. If you found a certain percentage of deployment more to your liking you can go into the defaults and change it so it always deploys to the same percentage. In order for autowake to fill and drain the bags you still have to throw all the ballast switches to the fill position (at least I think this is the case) I haven't been on the boat for a few months. As far as push goes when it's just me surfing and my wife driving I have learned that I have to run slower 10.5ish also a lot of times i will run in manual mode with all ballast full to 100% and a 400lb floor bag on surf side and another 400lb bag in front walkway. Had a supra/moomba rep suggest start in manual mode, play with your plates and ballast to get the wave like you want it. Then switch to autowake mode. Record pitch and roll settings then go in and set those to your default. Hope this helps. Keep playing with it your will like it once you get the hang of the system. Side note I run the stock 3k ballast and lacked push with just driver on the boat. Added 800lbs of floor sacs and woke it up a lot. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190414/53563e7b07b2f3580f2a74d246fbb7e6.jpg

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[rdlangston13]

So I’m not sure what year your boat is and what version of autowake you have because it will make a difference. I have a 2017 Mojo with the upgraded software that has the amplitude setting. On mine I can turn on autowake and set the amplitude for a certain %. Since I don’t have the draft sensor it defaults to measuring amplitude off of rear bag percentage. So for example if I am surfing and I turn on auto wake, select my surf side (goofy or starboard for me) then set the amplitude for 100% it will fill start filling the rear bags on its own to 100%. It will then fill the center tank/now bag just enough to achieve the desired pitch. The main issue with this you cannot always achieve 100% amplitude unless you have people you can move around or lead weight you can move because to achieve the roll it has to be heavier on your surf side. My autowake will tell me if it cannot meet my requested amplitude and to move weight to the side that needs it. I have 200 lbs of lead for this and o also ask passengers to move. I try to run close to 11 mph but if the crew is small sometimes I have to back it down to 10.7 or 10.5. Autoflow plate is set to 65 and center wake plate is all the way up at 0. I’ve found that if you deploy the center wake plate any it forces the bow down and causes the boat to dump water from the center tank/bow sack to achieve the pitch setting decreasing your overall displacement. I use the factory pitch and roll numbers as well.

What I prefer doing however if leaving autowake off and manually filling everything to 100% before turning it on. When everything is full and I’m about to hope in i turn on autowake and let it achieve statically while
I’m getting in the water.

I run the stock 900 lbs max surf rear bags, 400 bag under the cabin seats on each side, the stock hard tank and the bow sack, and 200 lbs of lead for 4,000 lbs total give or take.
Here are a couple shots of my wave with this set up and 4 people in the boat.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190414/cb2807239121e3c58ad5aadee01dfaa1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190414/bc13fb3144bfe8a6fb2abab919373481.jpg


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[LAwake]

I have a question about the AW system and the stock settings as it pertains to having additional ballast on your boat. I read through the entire post and I could have missed it but I wasn't able to find an answer.
I'm trying to figure out if the port settings on a Helix for pitch and roll (9, -3) are just based on a stock Helix with the standard 2100 pounds or if when you add additional ballast/lead bags the numbers should change? I've upgraded my rear bags, have additional bags I can fill manually, and have 1000# of lead bags. I have the potential to have close to 5000# total if everything is filled including crew on the boat. So, when I use AW should I still be trying to set the weight up to achieve the 9, -3 set points or something else?
Along the same lines, is less pitch than 9 and more roll than -3 (port side wave) a good thing while running the additional weight over stock? I, like everyone else, just want to maximize the wave potential so I want to understand the AW set points and how they relate when you've increased your overall displacement. A few days ago I was running close to 5000# total weight and my pitch was 7.5 and my roll was close 6.5-7. The wave was ok so I don't know if I should still be trying to get back to 9,-3 or some other set of variables to get the best possible wave. I feel like with the upgraded amount of displacement I should be getting a great wave. I just don't know what numbers I should be looking to achieve.

[parrothd]

I have a question about the AW system and the stock settings as it pertains to having additional ballast on your boat. I read through the entire post and I could have missed it but I wasn't able to find an answer.
I'm trying to figure out if the port settings on a Helix for pitch and roll (9, -3) are just based on a stock Helix with the standard 2100 pounds or if when you add additional ballast/lead bags the numbers should change? I've upgraded my rear bags, have additional bags I can fill manually, and have 1000# of lead bags. I have the potential to have close to 5000# total if everything is filled including crew on the boat. So, when I use AW should I still be trying to set the weight up to achieve the 9, -3 set points or something else?
Along the same lines, is less pitch than 9 and more roll than -3 (port side wave) a good thing while running the additional weight over stock? I, like everyone else, just want to maximize the wave potential so I want to understand the AW set points and how they relate when you've increased your overall displacement. A few days ago I was running close to 5000# total weight and my pitch was 7.5 and my roll was close 6.5-7. The wave was ok so I don't know if I should still be trying to get back to 9,-3 or some other set of variables to get the best possible wave. I feel like with the upgraded amount of displacement I should be getting a great wave. I just don't know what numbers I should be looking to achieve.


Seems like an excessive amount of roll and not enough pitch, you should be closer to the stock numbers, like 1-2 degrees difference.


You should take all the ballast out and calibrate the Autowake, then surf the stock settings. Turn off Autowake and move ballast around and surf it, repeat until you get the wave you like. Turn on Autowake and record the pitch numbers, repeat this every day until you get an idea how to setup the wave. The settings will be slightly different each time out unless you have the exact same setup. Make sure you to update Autowake to latest version, contact moomba. :)

I would fill everything you have to max, put all the people and lead(near the back) on the port side. Wake plate 0, surf tab 55, speed 10.5. This should make a huge short monster wave, if it doesn't look clean remove some ballast from the opposite side. Then slowly take a bag of lead at a time and move it to the bow see how that changes the wave and repeat until it the wave gets longer. Surf it and repeat. Taking a pic of each wave helps too. :)


Wake plate = Zero-15%, as you add more wake plate the wave will lower height & Longer wave
Higher pitch = Taller height & shorter wave
Lower pitch = Lower height & Longer wave
More speed = Lower height & Longer wave
Less speed = Taller height & shorter wave

[Stazi]

I would say too much roll is probably going to affect the wave. I don’t ever go over 5°. Pitch can be up to 10°


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[LAwake]

I would say too much roll is probably going to affect the wave. I don’t ever go over 5°. Pitch can be up to 10°


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Thanks Stazi. I had a good bit of weight on the surf side when I got that high roll number. I ended up moving some lead over to the non-surf side and got the number back down to 3.5.

[LAwake]

Seems like an excessive amount of roll and not enough pitch, you should be closer to the stock numbers, like 1-2 degrees difference.


You should take all the ballast out and calibrate the Autowake, then surf the stock settings. Turn off Autowake and move ballast around and surf it, repeat until you get the wave you like. Turn on Autowake and record the pitch numbers, repeat this every day until you get an idea how to setup the wave. The settings will be slightly different each time out unless you have the exact same setup. Make sure you to update Autowake to latest version, contact moomba. :)

I would fill everything you have to max, put all the people and lead(near the back) on the port side. Wake plate 0, surf tab 55, speed 10.5. This should make a huge short monster wave, if it doesn't look clean remove some ballast from the opposite side. Then slowly take a bag of lead at a time and move it to the bow see how that changes the wave and repeat until it the wave gets longer. Surf it and repeat. Taking a pic of each wave helps too. :)


Wake plate = Zero-15%, as you add more wake plate the wave will lower height & Longer wave
Higher pitch = Taller height & shorter wave
Lower pitch = Lower height & Longer wave
More speed = Lower height & Longer wave
Less speed = Taller height & shorter wave

Great info there, thanks. I have the upgraded software for AutoWake so I have the amplitude setting now but it just reads the total rear weight from what I understand. It's a 2017 so I don't have the new ballast sensors that Moomba's have now. One of my biggest issues I have with my Helix is getting the wave lengthened. That's why I had such a low pitch. I added bow weight and increased the speed a little. I can get a decent wave behind the boat but I have literally no length. I don't know if I'm expecting too much from a small sized boat and I'm getting everything I'm ever going to get or what. I just feel like I don't have much length and very little push. If I get toward the back of the wave and away from the boat, that's it, there's no getting back in the wave. It's like the pocket is so small that I can't get very far from the boat or else I'm out of the wave.
I weigh 200, ride 4'8 Neo with upgraded fins, and have a long history of wakeboarding as well as ocean surfing so I feel like my skill set is there. This will be my 2nd summer wake surfing so I'm still learning and trying to progress.

I'm writing some of this info down and will take it with me this week when I go back out to dial things in.

[parrothd]

Great info there, thanks. I have the upgraded software for AutoWake so I have the amplitude setting now but it just reads the total rear weight from what I understand. It's a 2017 so I don't have the new ballast sensors that Moomba's have now. One of my biggest issues I have with my Helix is getting the wave lengthened. That's why I had such a low pitch. I added bow weight and increased the speed a little. I can get a decent wave behind the boat but I have literally no length. I don't know if I'm expecting too much from a small sized boat and I'm getting everything I'm ever going to get or what. I just feel like I don't have much length and very little push. If I get toward the back of the wave and away from the boat, that's it, there's no getting back in the wave. It's like the pocket is so small that I can't get very far from the boat or else I'm out of the wave.
I weigh 200, ride 4'8 Neo with upgraded fins, and have a long history of wakeboarding as well as ocean surfing so I feel like my skill set is there. This will be my 2nd summer wake surfing so I'm still learning and trying to progress.

I'm writing some of this info down and will take it with me this week when I go back out to dial things in.

Also water depth makes a huge difference, 15+ is best.

[LAwake]

Also water depth makes a huge difference, 15+ is best.

I'm good there. Where we boat is anywhere from 25-140' deep.

[Stazi]

How fast are you surfing? Have you tried 11mph or more?


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[LAwake]

How fast are you surfing? Have you tried 11mph or more?


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Yea, I tried everything from 10.7 up to 11.7. I'm going to check my speed against a GPS app next time I'm out and just verify the speed is calibrated correctly.

[Stazi]

For me I find 11mph to get the best combo of height and length of the pocket.

For goofy foot I get around 10° of pitch and 5° of roll with my surf plate on the port at 65%and then for natural foot, the roll is closer to 3.5° with the starboard plate at 55%

Wake plate at 15% for a crew of 4 or more and 0% is only 2 or 3.

Also if you can have the boat slightly turning AWAY from the rider so you aren’t going totally straight. That really helps shape the wave for my height and curl.


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[LAwake]

For me I find 11mph to get the best combo of height and length of the pocket.

For goofy foot I get around 10° of pitch and 5° of roll with my surf plate on the port at 65%and then for natural foot, the roll is closer to 3.5° with the starboard plate at 55%

Wake plate at 15% for a crew of 4 or more and 0% is only 2 or 3.

Also if you can have the boat slightly turning AWAY from the rider so you aren’t going totally straight. That really helps shape the wave for my height and curl.


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Didn't think about having the boat angles away from the rider bu that makes sense. I'll look closer at my roll next time too. I've had a lot of weight on my surf side thinking that would give me a great wave but I think I'm so surf side heavy that it's actually counterproductive. I'm going to move some weight to the non surf side to get closer to the 3-4* roll and see how it looks. I assumed with more weight in the boat I would want more roll to get a better wave but now I'm hearing from most people that you still want to weight it to where you still stay between 3-5*.

I was hoping Goose would chime in and shed some light as well.

I appreciate the insight Stazi! You ever get to the Gulf Coast, I owe you some time behind the boat and several beers.

[Stazi]

Sounds good!


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[Surgical_ass]

Figured id try this question here. Is autowake something that can be added/installed later in the new boats? I assume it's a plug in program thing?

[KnoxMojo]

It would be pretty tough.. it's not just a program. It's a variety of sensors and an inclinomotor as well.

[parrothd]

It would be pretty tough.. it's not just a program. It's a variety of sensors and an inclinomotor as well.

Depends on the boat, I added it to my 2017 Craz, call your dealer and ask.

[BigOrange]

Only to 2017's and up; due to the helm control screen software.

[Matt0520]

Hoping someone can help with this one, I'm trying to recalibrate the roll in the Autowake Settings menu on my 2019. Doing this because Autowake keeps filling port ballast double over starboard. This happens no matter who is in the boat or where weight is. We'll have the wave perfect with manual ballast, turn on autowake and it'll drain starboard to almost zero.

Anyway, when trying to recalibrate roll, I select "yes" when the "set roll to zero" confirmation screen pops up. But then in the main display roll continues to display what it is currently (0.8 as pictured).

Doing this at 20mph with wake perfect, as told to in the 2019 display manual.

Here's what Autowake does at 30% amplitude, with me standing in the center of the boat and no other people/gear on the boat, completely washed starboard side but port looked good:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/84a8f63faff78f9cd9ce7ac69e02d749.jpg

Here's the Autowake settings screen AFTER setting roll to zero:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/6c62fb107868714f072608ca9813c07f.jpg

[chezdude]

I can't comment on the newer screen setup as I have a 2017. But the re-calibration made a huge difference to my ability to use (and enjoy) autowake on my boat. It shipped from the factor with a 1.1 offset, but it always felt way off when surfing (the boat was clearly rolled, but it kept reporting 0 roll and dumping all the ballast on the driver side to try to get to -3. So I used the inclinometer on my iPhone, dropped the boat into the water on a calm day with just me in the middle of the boat. And while the iPhone was reading 0 degrees, the boat was reading 2.8 degrees. So I went in and hit recalibrate and it adjusted the total offset to 2.9.

The wife and I went out after and had the best surf in a long while using Autowake.

Now to figure out the right speed... to get good push, we are down at 9.8, but sitting 5-6' off the back of the boat. And I'm running 1100's in the rear (upgraded from the stock 650s in the original Surf Edition).

heath

[parrothd]

9.8 is my speed too, the actual numbers don't matter, just remember what works for your boat and riding style. No 2 boats will have the same setup or numbers exactly.

[brentonfield]

I bought a 2018 MOJO Pro. The sacks in the rear of the boat do not fill the rear. I am not getting the full potential of the wave I want. What brand do you recommend for the 2018 MOJO PRO

[moombahighrider]

I bought a 2018 MOJO Pro. The sacks in the rear of the boat do not fill the rear. I am not getting the full potential of the wave I want. What brand do you recommend for the 2018 MOJO PRO

I have the Enzo sacs in my 2017 mojo pro and they near fill the rear lockers. I’m really happy with them. There is a touch of room on top for a few life jackets when full.

[moombahighrider]

I have the Enzo sacs in my 2017 mojo pro and they near fill the rear lockers. I’m really happy with them. There is a touch of room on top for a few life jackets when full.

Having said that, I am finding that I now don’t have enough wait in the front. I am adding 500lbs of lead in the bow this summer to see how that ‘shapes’ out...

[flienlow]

Sorry if I missed this in the 45+ pages. but what the procedure to re calibrate autowake?

My boat (19 MAX ) was "Tinkered" with by my salesman without me present. (In an effort to help) However, I don't feel I am getting the best wake from a 22' boat. Can I surf it? yes, but the "Pocket" seems small, and it is nothing to write home about compared to my neighbors beater supreme v232. I also just rode a Centurion FI 21. I wont bore you, but that stock boat throws a friggin TSUNAMI out the back. Hence there is room for improvement with my Max because it not that much better than my '15 LSV was.

NOTE: I have around 800lbs per side in Midship lockers.

Cheat Sheet: I had a Supra owner show me a cheat sheet put out by Supra on what the settings should be with different amounts a people ect. Does Moomba have something Similar?

Rant: IMHO Moomba has A LOT of opportunity for improvement here in regards to Teaching us how to use Autowake. I want to use my boat. I DO NOT want a 45 page research project on the subject. It seems there is a lot show casing in regards to sales, but little in way to usage per boat model.

[Arcadyus]

Sorry if I missed this in the 45+ pages. but what the procedure to re calibrate autowake?

My boat (19 MAX ) was "Tinkered" with by my salesman without me present. (In an effort to help) However, I don't feel I am getting the best wake from a 22' boat. Can I surf it? yes, but the "Pocket" seems small, and it is nothing to write home about compared to my neighbors beater supreme v232. I also just rode a Centurion FI 21. I wont bore you, but that stock boat throws a friggin TSUNAMI out the back. Hence there is room for improvement with my Max because it not that much better than my '15 LSV was.

NOTE: I have around 800lbs per side in Midship lockers.

Cheat Sheet: I had a Supra owner show me a cheat sheet put out by Supra on what the settings should be with different amounts a people ect. Does Moomba have something Similar?

Rant: IMHO Moomba has A LOT of opportunity for improvement here in regards to Teaching us how to use Autowake. I want to use my boat. I DO NOT want a 45 page research project on the subject. It seems there is a lot show casing in regards to sales, but little in way to usage per boat model.

I'd go on the FB page. But most folks will tell you to read this entire thread. Once you do youll understand auto wake. But if you want just numbers go to the FB page and search Max auto wake.

[chezdude]

Goose,

Did you ever compile all your hints and tips into a single document that you would be willing to share with the forum (and public)? I've been reading through this forum for 2 years now and learning something new each time that has made it better, but it would be nice to have it all in a single doc to share with the wife.

Thanks,
heath

[jared24]

Mattsask,

What I used to do before AutoLaunch was leave the surf system down. Not sure if everyone knows this, but if you leave the flow plates down, they automatically come up at 15mph. It is not quite the same as AutoLaunch, but there were times when it got me on plane whereas with no flow plate help, I couldn't get on plane. Unfortunately in 2016 there was no way to deploy both plates at same time, but this should help.

When you say leave the surf system down, you're referring to having the surf switch to the left or right correct? Therefore keeping just one flow plate down till reaching 15 mph. Or is there a way to have both flow plates down at the same time other than using autolaunch?

[Stazi]

As far as I know you cannot get all 3 plates to deploy on launch unless you have Autowake, and have it on in the wakeboard mode (ie Autowake On with no surf side selected).


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[jared24]

As far as I know you cannot get all 3 plates to deploy on launch unless you have Autowake, and have it on in the wakeboard mode (ie Autowake On with no surf side selected).


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Was thinking the same. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything when he said leave the surf system down...

[goose]

Hey guys! and girls! Sorry about being away for a while. We just started building the new 2020 product and since I am in product development, I have been a little busy...

Anyways, I have been trying to keep up with the posts and questions when I can. I am very happy to see that a LOT of you are now understanding AutoWake a LOT better and I really appreciate you guys filling in on answering the questions while I have been away. One of the suggestions has been to combine my "tips of the day" into one document. I have done that, but I am having issues getting it uploaded. It keeps telling me I wrote too much. hahaha. I have someone working on that to make it "web" friendly and hopefully soon I will be uploading a "printable" version that has all the tips in one spot. It will not have all the other information in this thread, but if you just read it from beginning to end, it should give you most of the information to get you headed in the right direction. I have reread most of it and I think there are plenty of "tips" to how you can test and learn and if you do this on a boat just a few times, it should really accelerate the learning curve. I will also work on additional content and I know the sales and marketing team are also working but honestly the best way to learn AutoWake is to use it. I can write hundreds of pages of text, but really you just have to get seat time to figure out how to use it properly. Again, I think if you read each tip one at a time and do what it says to in that tip, then after just a few times on the water, you will see what it is trying to do.

I know I have said this many times and you will see it over and over in the tips, but if you think AutoWake is a magic wand that will just work perfectly all the time without fail and create massive wakes, then you are starting with the wrong set of expectations. AutoWake is NOT a surf system, it is NOT a ballast system, it can not make the wave bigger or smaller. Instead of thinking of it as a "bolt on performance" device, think of it as a Automated Dash Interface. The reason we are developing AutoWake is to make your experience on the water better, easier, and more technologically advanced so that it matches our brand logo of "NO WORRIES". As with any dash interface or electrical system, while we are trying to make it easy to use, it DOES require some knowledge and understanding. I am confident that there is NOT a more technologically advanced towboat on the market. You might think that is a bold statement, but if you look up our patents and the technology that we are using, it will prove that my statement is true. No one else measures, senses, or controls the systems on the boat like we do. No one can react to what the boat is doing like we do. I am not saying this to brag, but rather to explain that AutoWake IS a very complicated system. Because of that, it is not something that should be expected to be super simple to understand. There are probably some pilots or other similarly trained people on this forum. I am NOT one. But what we are doing with AutoWake is pretty similar to what you might find on an aircraft, or drone, or something similar. While I am sure that the pilots would feel comfortable sitting in a cockpit and turning on Auto Pilot, I can only assume that before they do that, they understand exactly what the system is doing and how it works in case something goes wrong. If you read the tips, that is basically what I am recommending as well. Learn what the system is doing manually. Move the plates, move the ballast, move passengers and when you do that, look at AutoWake and see how that affects pitch, roll, and displacement. Once you do that, then start using AutoWake and watch what it does. If you do that, then quickly you will understand what it is trying to do and THAT should solve most of the issues or frustration or really misunderstandings that we see related to AutoWake. Ok, let me see if I can get this thing uploaded.....

[goose]

It appears while I was writing the long post above, they already had this link done....hahaha

So, without further ado, this should be a link to all the tips in one spot.....

https://drive.google.com/open?id=15YdphBdk-f4sHpkRfnRij2qDsWrAYBr9

[Prospersigman]

Thank you Goose...now lets here about that new Moomba model and the details on the redesigned SA :cool:

[goose]

Thank you Goose...now lets here about that new Moomba model and the details on the redesigned SA :cool:

Patience young grasshopper. It will all be coming out soon....

[parrothd]

Patience young grasshopper. It will all be coming out soon....


It would be awesome if the new(and old) firmwares were made available on the website, FTP or google drive and email notifications of updates. :)

And a feature request and track option, aka github or something.. :)

[gpnewton]

It appears while I was writing the long post above, they already had this link done....hahaha

So, without further ado, this should be a link to all the tips in one spot.....

https://drive.google.com/open?id=15YdphBdk-f4sHpkRfnRij2qDsWrAYBr9

I shared this with my local Moomba dealer and he was psyched and plans to share with all his folks.


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[goose]

It would be awesome if the new(and old) firmwares were made available on the website, FTP or google drive and email notifications of updates. :)

And a feature request and track option, aka github or something.. :)

This is a good idea and something we have been discussing internally. The problem is with software things can get tricky and if we make this too easy to get, it could cause problems. The truth is some of our new hardware is similar to old hardware. And on some of those, the software from one model year CAN be installed on a different model year BUT then it might not work properly. And then some software/hardware combinations are not backwards capable. Which means if someone were to put the wrong software on the wrong hardware, then they might not be able to go back to the correct software. I know that sounds crazy, but we have had that happen and that typically requires a screen change. Do you see how that gets expensive quick?? And then there is always the fear of getting your software in the wrong hands. Obviously some of our IP is in the form of software, so letting the competitors have easy access to that is not a great idea. I would love to make everything transparent. I am the type of guy that likes access to what I want and need, but sometimes that isn't the best plan. Again, I typically don't like this idea, but sometimes making things just a little work, keeps the honest people honest and the dishonest people at bay. I know you could say that honest people are always honest, but dishonest people always figure out the loop holes but those are some of the reasons why it isn't as easy to get today. Maybe someday soon, that will all be easier....

[MJHSupra]

This is a good idea and something we have been discussing internally. The problem is with software things can get tricky and if we make this too easy to get, it could cause problems. The truth is some of our new hardware is similar to old hardware. And on some of those, the software from one model year CAN be installed on a different model year BUT then it might not work properly. And then some software/hardware combinations are not backwards capable. Which means if someone were to put the wrong software on the wrong hardware, then they might not be able to go back to the correct software. I know that sounds crazy, but we have had that happen and that typically requires a screen change. Do you see how that gets expensive quick?? And then there is always the fear of getting your software in the wrong hands. Obviously some of our IP is in the form of software, so letting the competitors have easy access to that is not a great idea. I would love to make everything transparent. I am the type of guy that likes access to what I want and need, but sometimes that isn't the best plan. Again, I typically don't like this idea, but sometimes making things just a little work, keeps the honest people honest and the dishonest people at bay. I know you could say that honest people are always honest, but dishonest people always figure out the loop holes but those are some of the reasons why it isn't as easy to get today. Maybe someday soon, that will all be easier....

I've been working in software for many years, all 110% true and would happen.

If the boat could connect to the internet and centralized databases like an iPhone or PC operating system, there could be a verification level to know who you are, what you have, and what you are running, but that is also more overhead and things to maintain for SC.

Technology changes fast, I never doubt it could happen.

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[parrothd]

I've been working in software for many years, all 110% true and would happen.

If the boat could connect to the internet and centralized databases like an iPhone or PC operating system, there could be a verification level to know who you are, what you have, and what you are running, but that is also more overhead and things to maintain for SC.

Technology changes fast, I never doubt it could happen.

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Ugh..Man..DRM...Useless..lol.

I don't think there's anything revolutionary here, just that it was patent able.

I'd reason there's some prior art, but I'm not a lawyer..

[Maab Rules]

Goose, and all others that have helped me try to understand Autowake. Thank you. I purchased a 2018 Mondo with standard ballasts and really did not understand Autowake at all even after searching the net, not finding too much. Then ran across this thread and learned a crap load of info. Little disappointing, like a few others have said, that you have to get this info for this awesome thread, but at least I got the info. Have only tried to surf a handful of times without great success. No that I have armed with all his great info I am super pumped to go to the lake this weekend and start dialing in the wave. There is no replacement for displacement. Embedded into my brain now. Great job lads.

[shockthis]

Hey Goose
I have automaker pretty dialled for surfing and it works well for wake boarding to, but my main concern is when I switch from my wakeboard profile to my wifes wakeboard profile. I like it the wake steeper and she prefers it more mellow. So why does it just fill the nose more instead of emptying the rear tanks? I go and instead of emptying ballast, it adds ballast.
Her amplitude is set at 35 7.5 pitch and 0 roll wake plate 46, and mine is at 65 amplitude 7.5 pitch and wake plate at 15.

thanks

[Stazi]

Hey guys, here's the video I made that shows you how to use Autowake and change setting etc:

https://youtu.be/2bVN071iYLM

[parrothd]

Hey guys, here's the video I made that shows you how to use Autowake and change setting etc:

https://youtu.be/2bVN071iYLM


Great minds think alike, I put together a power point video but was slacking on posting it.. :)

Moomba AutoWake - How to get the best Wave 2019 - PowerPoint Presentation (https://s3.amazonaws.com/jonlyons.network/Moomba+AutoWake+-+How+to+get+the+best+Wave+2019.pptx)

Moomba AutoWake - How to get the best Wave 2019 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/hSP_YwvDsnE)

[jared24]

Great minds think alike, I put together a power point video but was slacking on posting it.. :)

Moomba AutoWake - How to get the best Wave 2019 - PowerPoint Presentation (https://s3.amazonaws.com/jonlyons.network/Moomba+AutoWake+-+How+to+get+the+best+Wave+2019.pptx)

Moomba AutoWake - How to get the best Wave 2019 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/hSP_YwvDsnE)

Good video, but why does your port plate show at 29 when you have the switch turned surf left? In fact, mine can only adjust in increments of 5...

[parrothd]

Good video, but why does your port plate show at 29 when you have the switch turned surf left? In fact, mine can only adjust in increments of 5...
Hahaha.. I didn't think anyone would notice that. It gets stuck every now and then and have to cycle side to side to clear it. Didn't notice it until editing..

[rdlangston13]

Hey guys, here's the video I made that shows you how to use Autowake and change setting etc:

https://youtu.be/2bVN071iYLM

You're not originally from Michigan are you? You sound like you're from down under!

[Stazi]

You're not originally from Michigan are you? You sound like you're from down under!

You are correct!


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[larry_arizona]

Autowake is AWESOME, that is all.


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[chezdude]

So - I noticed on the 2019 models that you can store autowake settings per setting (Wake, Port Surf, Stbd Surf). But on the upgraded firmware I have on my 2017, it doesn't include the amplitude setting (just roll and pitch).

While I don't have the amplitude sensor, I do find that the amplitude setting controls the ballast fill levels when in Wake setting. When I'm kneeboarding, I don't want full ballast. But I do when surfing. Presently, I have to remember to adjust that setting when I switch between wake and port/stbd surfing or else it dump ballast (low amplitude) or adds too much (high amplitude).

That seems to me an easy setting to have remembered in the autowake settings so that it automatically adjusts based on which mode you are in. Is there a newer firmware that we can get that might have that setting? Any thoughts to adding it to those of us with "older" boats?

chezdude

[Bch53211]

Hello all I am new to the forum , I am in SE Wisconsin and just bought my first boat a 2019 Helix with autowake and 2.0 surf system. This video was very informative, thanks for posting. I will be putting my boat in late April , I can’t wait. The dealer is going to go out with me the first couple times to help me learn all the boat has to offer but I’m sure I will still have a bunch of questions. I am really only interested in surfing , I look forward to dialing in the best set up.

[Jkaser]

What great information! I’ve read this from start to finish. I just upgraded from a ‘13 SA to a ‘19 SL and can’t wait to try AutoWake once our Indiana weather cooperates. Quick question, I was reading that the newer boats have ballast sensors but maybe that is Moomba only. I can’t find anything in the manual and I had water firing from each ballast overflow. It ran for quite a while and I see from goose that I could damage things. Clearly there wasn’t an auto shutoff. This happened on my first and only time filling. I’ll adjust the timers going forward but was curious if the SL was supposed to automatically shut off and recalibrate. Thanks everyone for the great info!

[haknslash]

When you see the water coming out of the overflow just turn off the ballast pumps. Bags are completely full at that point. You should time how long it take until you see water flowing out and then go into your fill timer settings and enter that time it took to fill. From then on you should be good to go.

[larry_arizona]

I believe the 19 Supras have ballast sensors and adjust timers automatically.

However, I recall it may have been a mid season change similar to the 1.76 transmission


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[DNIXD99]

FYI I'd take notes on how each adjustment effects the wave. I've prob read this 3 times, and still dont remember everything. I always wish I had notes in my phone. Most people start out building a tall wave by adding mid and rear weight. But then they want to start making it longer. Most accomplish this with bow weight, and speed. All of these make major adjustments, but after this point, when you really start trying to perfect the wave, is when you really need to know what every adjustment does. Most adjustments have a counter adjustment so you can end up fighting yourself. Like increasing speed raises your pitch, but adding bow weight lowers the pitch. I only mention this because alot of peoples frustration seem to happen in stages. Terrible wave....great wave now but short....long wave now but no push ect. ect

[jnr4817]

I just picked up a slightly used 2018 Mojo. I'm located in TN. Aqua Sport Marine is my local dealer. I am awaiting for a phone call for them to transfer the warranty over to us. When I go in for this service, can they add autowake to our boat? Apparently it didn't come with it and Id like to use it if possible.

Thanks,
Jason

[Stazi]

Yes, they can, but it need to have the inclinometer added, as well as the software. The 2018’s also have a amplitude sensor, but you don’t “need”
It. It’s better with that sensor, but it will work without it as I put the 2018 software on my 2017 and it works without the sensor.


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[jimmsch]

So my boat (see sig) still has original software. This thread mentions there have been upgrades to the software. Can anybody tell me where I can download this update? Please don't refer me to the dealer as they have proven to be less than useful after the sale.

[Stazi]

So my boat (see sig) still has original software. This thread mentions there have been upgrades to the software. Can anybody tell me where I can download this update? Please don't refer me to the dealer as they have proven to be less than useful after the sale.

What boat (and year) do you have?


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[jimmsch]

2018 Moomba Max - 400 Raptor - 6 pump ballast - auto wake 2 - flow 2 - gps zero off

[Stazi]

You should have the latest software for that screen then. You cannot go to the 19 or 20 software as all that is touchscreen.


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[Chaney44ETX]

I am new to the forum and in the process of dialing in our 2019 mojo and I have a question about displacement. 9 out of 10 times it's only myself and gf on the water so displacement is hard to achieve with only us on the boat, the AMP / "Potential" never makes it to the hashes and it seems to have very little push. Would the easy solution be replacing human weight with lead bags or something similar? ie: 500-600 lb etc on the port side (we all surf port)

ps: I may not be asking this question with the correct forum protocol... my bad

Thanks,
R

[gpnewton]

I am new to the forum and in the process of dialing in our 2019 mojo and I have a question about displacement. 9 out of 10 times it's only myself and gf on the water so displacement is hard to achieve with only us on the boat, the AMP / "Potential" never makes it to the hashes and it seems to have very little push. Would the easy solution be replacing human weight with lead bags or something similar? ie: 500-600 lb etc on the port side (we all surf port)

ps: I may not be asking this question with the correct forum protocol... my bad

Thanks,
R

I’m using a combination of 50 lb bags I can easily move around, and an external bag (650lb Sumo Max) and pump that really helps if there are just a few of us out.


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[Isaguel]

I believe that boat has 3000lbs ballast standard. You need more weight. Look around and there are tons of threads talking about dialing in wave and the common denominator is to add more ballast. Guys here have at least 4k# of ballast. Your boat has plenty of freeboard and can handle lots more weight. That's what it all boils down to. I would suggest distribute weight evenly and displace as much water as you can get away with and then use your surf tabs , wakeplate and speed to shape the wave. That way it all looks clean and you do not have a ton of tubes and pumps and bags lying around and tripping over. I agree external bags are effective and work well, I just like clean organized look. Plus, if you use your tabs then you can switch goofy to regular seemelessly without having to move bags around. I am able to switch port to goofy side quickly and make transfer (while holding rope) and its fun to try different sides. You cant do that if you have a one sided list. Consider upgrading your rears to 1100lbs in addition to adding lead for a total of minimum 4k#.

[fail0ver]

Hey guys, brand new Moomba owner here. (2019 Mondo) I've got a quick question on the Autowake system: In the upper-left corner of the screen, there's a "surf" button which you press to switch the side of the wake that you want to surf on. This works great. There's also a physical switch called "Flow Surf" near the ignition which (I think) is used for the same purpose. However, when I use flip the physical switch left or right nothing happens. Again, the touchscreen button works fine but the physical switch doesn't really seem to do anything. Is there anything "special" I need to do for the switch to work? Just trying to figure out if mine is broken, or if I'm doing it wrong. Thanks,

[Chaney44ETX]

Thanks for the info... Looks like you either have to Crew up or Weight up. Kinda wish my salesperson would of just told me that when I said it's mostly just the two of us on the water tho. Oh well

2019 mojo

[larry_arizona]

Thanks for the info... Looks like you either have to Crew up or Weight up. Kinda wish my salesperson would of just told me that when I said it's mostly just the two of us on the water tho. Oh well

2019 mojo

Easy fix, buy lead.

Truth be told, moombas are very light out of the showroom and Supras are just barely heavy enough out of the showroom.

To get moombas to shine, bag upgrades and lead are needed especially if you run a small crew.

Supras have enough bag, but really shine with lead. My SA will throw a curl wave [emoji305] with a crew of 2, rider and 500# lead

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[Stazi]

Yep. The Moomba’s are big but light. That might sound great.....for fuel economy, but not for surfing. Lead and biggest bags and a bunch of hot chicks for extra weight and eye candy is the solution. Last option is often not an option. [emoji23]


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[Chaney44ETX]

Got it! 800lb lead already ordered... Bag upgrade next

Any suggestions how to place the lead for best port surf until I upgrade rear bags? It's literally just me with my GF driving which is a whole nother thing.


2019 mojo
ETX

[Stazi]

Start with a bit more to the port side to counteract the driver. Maybe 100-150 more to port. At a point towards the rear. I have mine in FRONT of the rear bags.


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[larry_arizona]

I just watched rag boys wave set up video, talk
About perfect timing for newbs.

I don’t agree with 9 deg pitch, but what it tells me is 9 deg creates push for a big boy like Ragboy. I stay at 7.5-8 pitch and 3-4 deg roll goofy side.


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[fail0ver]

Hey all, I've been playing around today with Autowake on my Mondo and am a little confused on how it's supposed to work. I did some testing today with only me in the boat (and I'm a small guy, 145 pounds), and the lake was calm. With the Amp preset set to "100", I Turn on Autowake and wait. The front ballast filled to 100, and the left ballast filled to around 95. The right ballast, however, stayed at zero. I'm assuming it was attempting to balance out me sitting in the driver's seat, but I was pretty surprised that it didn't fill the right ballast at all.

Is that normal? The whole boat was noticeably leaning to the left, so I have hard time believing this is how it's supposed to work. Thanks for any help!

[Stazi]

All depends on your pitch and roll


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[htfit]

BigOrange,

I agree that finding a completely level spot and using a long bar level is a great idea. However, as an engineer, I am sure you are also familiar with design for manufacturability or design for feasibility. Unfortunately, I don't think many people have a completely flat spot where they can assure that the boat is actually level and there is not an easy way to level the actual boat if the boat is not level. I guess you could get a floor jack and try adjusting the trailer to make sure the boat is level, but that isn't very feasible. In our manufacturing plant, we put boats on dollies manually to move through the plant. Because of that, every boat is sitting slightly different on the dolly so the only place we can calibrate it is on the water. We think that is our most consistent place to calibrate it and that is why we do it that way. But the truth is if it is a windy day or if the tester is not paying extra close attention, his calibration can be slightly off. That is why I am recommending everyone check it. In addition to that, in the testing we have done, it actually takes a fairly large change in roll before you actually "feel" the difference in the wave. If the roll is .5 degree off from perfect, it is likely you wouldn't really feel or see the difference. Truth is wind, depth, chop and other variables would be worse than if the roll is not 100% perfect. Plus, the boat actually sees a LOT of movement as the boat runs through the water. We had to do special dampening to the "real" roll values so that the system is not jumping all over the place. Anyways, I probably went to far on all that. Your suggestion is a great one and if people can do that, then it would make the system even more accurate. But I think calibrating on the water when you know the boat really is level should work well for the majority of the users...

This may sound like a weird question, but at what point is the inclinometer calibration taken off of? In other words, I installed some manual bubble inclinometers and based 0 degrees off the floor of the boat. I adjusted the pitch of the boat with the trailer jack until the floor was perfectly level and set my inclinometer to 0 based on that. But it was 2.5 degrees off from what autowake was telling me so I need to either recalibrate autowake or the pitch is taken off a different point other than the floor of the boat.

Just trying to figure out if autowake needs to be recalibrated or if my measurements are way off. I would really like to start utilizing autowake.

Thank you!

[larry_arizona]

This may sound like a weird question, but at what point is the inclinometer calibration taken off of? In other words, I installed some manual bubble inclinometers and based 0 degrees off the floor of the boat. I adjusted the pitch of the boat with the trailer jack until the floor was perfectly level and set my inclinometer to 0 based on that. But it was 2.5 degrees off from what autowake was telling me so I need to either recalibrate autowake or the pitch is taken off a different point other than the floor of the boat.

Just trying to figure out if autowake needs to be recalibrated or if my measurements are way off. I would really like to start utilizing autowake.

Thank you!

This might help you.


https://youtu.be/jcwD-neqFGc


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[parrothd]

This might help you.


https://youtu.be/jcwD-neqFGc


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You only need to calibrate if using the stock settings or trying to copy someone setup which will never really work cuz you don't know how calibrated the other system is. I use a phone leveling app in the center of the floor, move weight around the boat until the bubble is zeroed out with a full tank.

The best way to use autowake is to fill all the bags 100% add some people to the surf side and flip the surf system on. Surf it, when you find a wave you like turn on autowake for a second and note the pitch roll. Then set the autowake to those numbers in the autowake section defaults. From the on you'll have the wave you like every time.

[htfit]

The best way to use autowake is to fill all the bags 100% add some people to the surf side and flip the surf system on. Surf it, when you find a wave you like turn on autowake for a second and note the pitch roll. Then set the autowake to those numbers in the autowake section defaults. From the on you'll have the wave you like every time.

Makes sense. Good point that the number is pretty arbitrary unless comparing it to somebody else's setup which is hard to do.

[htfit]

This might help you.


https://youtu.be/jcwD-neqFGc


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I have seen that video but never watched it. Now I have... good stuff. Thank you.

[cardsharp]

+1 on the videos. They help quite a bit. Even after a calibration and training session from surf pros, the videos were extremely helpful.

[jobiwan06]

Hi everyone. I am new to the forum and new to boats. We bought a 2017 Helix last summer and it has changed our lives for the better. I have read through this entire thread. It is awesome! Thank you to everyone who contributed. Would someone please send me a copy of the new software?

I have witnessed some of the problems noted by others with the older version. Such as ballast emptying out of the surf side. I have also noticed the surf tabs do not deploy consistently. I am not sure if this was mentioned by others and I just glossed over it at the time because I hadn't noticed it yet. Anyway, I noticed different time when strapping the back of the boat to the trailer that one or both of the surf tabs looked partially deployed. I always wrote it off as the angle I was looking at it, the little bit of the play in the tabs, or that someone left something "on" in the boat when the ignition was turned off. We've always had difficulty with getting a consistent wave. Not just from one outing to the next, but during the same outing. I just kind of wrote it off to our inexperience. Last week, I was really set on getting the surf wake dialed in better. We surfed on the right first as everyone except me surfs on that side. Everything was great. Then we switched to the left and I got in the water. I could not find a single spot on the wave that had an push. It was more like wakeboarding. (The previous outing, I was running up on the boat and although I never gave up the rope, it wasn't doing anything except providing me with security.) I had my wife shut it down and I started looking at things. The left surf tab was still partially down, while the one on the right was way down. So, when we got home, I started trouble shooting. What I found was that when you toggle the surf switch back to center from the left or right, it does not fully return the surf tab to zero. When you again toggle to the same side, it deploys the tab even further, and back to center returns it even less to zero. After four or five times in a row, the display on the dash says 60%, but the tab is deployed 100%, and when the display reads 0%, the tab is at about 25%. I took measurements to get a better idea of what was going on. Measuring between a point on the boat and a point of the surf tabs, i found true zero at 8 1/4" and 100% at 14 3/8". 65% was at 12". Adjusting manually, I reached the 14 3/8" at 80 or 85% reading on the screen. Going the other way, I reached the 8 1/4" at 25 or 20% reading on the screen. I could get to the 12" at 65% working down or up, but if I went from zero to 65%, it would not return to true zero working backwards. Zero on the display, but tab deployment would be at about 9". If I repeat the numbers grow. 65% on display, 13" deployment. 0% on the display, 10 " deployment. These numbers are the same or really really close toggling the surf side switch with a 65% preset value. The only way I could get consistent measurements was to manually adjust from zero to 100 and then work back to 65. From there, 65 to zero would hit true zero (8 1/4") at 20 or 25%. So, I have a fix, but it is annoying and not as user friendly as flipping a switch. Has anyone else experienced this? I really hope the newer software/firmware fixes this.

[sawbank]

Such a great and informative post is this, really your answers are very helpful for everyone. Thanks for sharing this information with us because I am a new user and I was no idea about it. Great post (https://sawbank.com/7-best-miter-saw-blades-saw-bank/)

[shubinette]

Good info.
I assume its the same info for a 2019 MOJO!

[Mark F]

Do you make larger ballast bags for the Craz? (Larger than the 1000# standards)

[MustGoFast]

I know this that is very dated now but still just an awesome reference and history to the concept and evolution of auto wake.
Now the only question is the value trade of of parts wear vs simplicity for those in the know IMO