AutoWake questions

[goose]

Hey guys. Some of you know me, but I am Matt Brown and I am the Moomba product manager. I have seen several questions about AutoWake and thought I would start a thread on it to try and help. The first question I will answer is from 2 other threads about what is the new "Amplitude" bar or graph. We are launching the 2018 stuff in a few days so I can't go into too much detail, but the idea is for 2018 we have added a draft sensor that shows how deep the boat is really sitting in the water at any time. In the past all you had was ballast gauges (which are really timers) and you had to approximate how much passenger weight you had. Now for 2018, you can tell at anytime how deep the boat is really sitting in the water. Where that adds value is on Saturday when you go out and have a huge wave, you can now see what the pitch and roll is, but also exactly how much weight you are displacing. Think of it like having the X, Y, and Z parameters of the boat. On Sunday when you go out with only factory ballast and 2 passengers and you don't have a really huge wave, then you can again compare the pitch, roll, and displacement. You will eventually find the "magic line" of minimum displacement that you really need to get the wave size you desire. As always, your size, skill level, board shape or size will all dictate where that magic line needs to be, but at least now you will know really how much water you are displacing at any time. While the amplitude bar does NOT add to the displacement or make the wave bigger, it does give you a nice visual that you didn't have or don't have in other boats. Passenger and gear weight is the one variable that always seems to get overlooked. I get questions all the time about how to set up boats for wakeboarding or surfing, but no one ever remembers to say exactly how many passengers they have and where they are sitting. All I usually get is "where does my ballast need to be", or "where do my plates need to be". The truth is the X, Y, And Z axis (Pitch, Roll, Displacement) are ALL critically important and work together. Pitch and Roll make the shape of the wave. Displacement makes the size. And as it is often said, "There is NO replacement for displacement". You can't make a huge wave without displacing a lot of water.

In addition for 2018, the Amplitude bar also has an "AMP" setting beneath it. It shares a name and general location on the screen, but it actually has a completely different purpose. When trying to teach new riders or smaller riders, sometimes it is necessary to scale the wave back a little. Personally I have a 10 year old that loves to surf. As he was learning, sometimes when we got the wave too large he had a hard time keeping the board away from the transom. To fix that, we would reduce some of the ballast. That is where the "AMP" setting works great. If you are teaching a new or smaller rider, you can reduce the wave size by just reducing "AMP" from 100 to maybe 50 or 75. It also works nice for when you want to recreational ski, kneeboard, tube or other wakesports where 100% ballast is not always required, but you want AutoWake to hold a specific pitch and roll. It also works well when you want to cruise across the lake and not worry about where people are sitting. I think we can all relate to the time when you are trying to get back to the dock and 6 people are sitting on the port side having a conversation and the boat is running with a list. By reducing AMP to 5 or 10%, then AutoWake will level the boat with minimum ballast and allow you to drive back to the dock without completely filling your ballast.

Hope that helps explain the Amplitude Bar and "AMP" setting. I will continue to add helpful hints about AutoWake and how to use it as I get time....

[Mobius22]

Great post, Matt! Thank you for the info!

[stevemarich]

very awesome write up, that should bring the auto wake to the next level for sure. Funny how after using it this year thought how handy it would be if it would do that, think I have a post about it somewhere too. Super exciting for the 18 , add that with the dual pumps per bag ,maybe little bit bigger surf plates ,will be sweet for sure. Thanks for the info Matt. Might have to test out a new Mojo when they show up.

[Stazi]

Awesome info. Thanks!


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[DFTR Josh]

Well I've only heard and this post really helped a LOT. Thanks for the post Matt.

[goose]

Random AutoWake tip of the day - displacement

I guess I really should have started with a better explanation of what AutoWake does and what it can do to add value. As I said before, the wave or wake of a boat is created by the water that is displaced by the boat as it moves through the water. To keep it really simple, the shape of the wave is defined by the pitch and roll of the boat as it displaces the water. (The Flow plates, wakeplate, and any other device of the boat that disrupts water does affect this shape but we will discuss that later). The overall size of the wave/wake is defined by the total water that is displaced. If you have 10,000lbs of boat, ballast, passengers, gear going through the water, then you will displace twice as much water as a 5,000lbs boat, ballast, passenger, gear boat. The 10,000lbs of water will generate a really large wave and obviously will be probably twice as big as the 5000lb boat assuming they displace water at same pitch and roll. While that seems like basic information, sometimes people don't really think about it that way. I get questions all the time about people having issues getting a good surf wave or not having enough push and they want to know where to put their flow plates or wakeplate. After asking a few questions, I find out they are in a boat that weighs about 4000lbs, they have less than 2000lbs of ballast and passengers, they are a 200lb rider and they are trying to ride a 4'6" skim style board. The truth is that just will not work very well. It doesn't matter where you put the flow plates or wakeplate or even what the pitch or roll is, the truth is you probably just don't have enough displacement to create a large enough wave with enough push for a rider of that size on a board that small. It reminds me of the Bee Movie and the theory that Bees should not be able to fly. (Side note - that Myth is not accurate, google it..) So, can a 200lb rider ride a 4'6" skim board behind a Mojo with only 2000lbs of ballast? Yes, they can. I have proven it. But I promise you it isn't easy and if you don't know how to pump like a mad man, it probably would not be fun.

So, that takes me back to AutoWake. You might ask what displacement has to do with AutoWake, but it is very important to actually understand how displacement works first before we spend too much time talking about pitch and roll. AutoWake is NOT a ballast system. AutoWake is a system that controls the "tools" on the boat to try and maximize where the plates are located, where ballast is located, where passengers are located etc, to get the boat back to displacing water at the same pitch and roll every time so that you can have the same shape wave or wake every time. What AutoWake can NOT do is make a 6000lb boat the same as a 10,000lb boat. Let me explain it this way, the 2018 Mojo has a marketed dry weight of 4,400lbs. The ballast system is 3,000lbs and the capacity of that boat is an additional 2,500lbs. So, if you took a 2018 Mojo, filled all the ballast and total capacity, that boat could displace legally up to 9,900lbs. Granted, if you have that much weight in the boat you probably would struggle to get on plane, but that is the full potential of the boat. If you took the same boat and filled the front to only 50%, port side to 100%, stbd side to 80%, and 1 driver that weighs 200lb, then you actually only have 600lbs in the front, 900lbs on port, 720lbs on stbd and 200lbs in passenger for total of 2420lbs in ballast and passengers. Add the 4,400 of boat weight and you are a total of 6,820lbs. Compared to the 9,900 potential, you are WAY less in overall displacement. AutoWake can move ballast around to get the correct pitch and roll, but AutoWake can not add an additional 3,000lbs of displacement. As we say all the time, there is NO replacement for displacement. Pitch and Roll do NOT generate size or push. Only displacement can do that.

Again for 2018, we tried to add that visual with the Amplitude bar. Now at anytime you can see what your real "Potential" is in overall displacement. Now that we all understand exactly how displacement works and why it is so important, then we can start to talk more about what pitch and roll are doing and how the system actually works to try and maximize ballast while doing that. Stay tuned for more tips later....

[RC_Hinojosa]

Matt,

this is all excellent information and very informative, however I have a 2017 with Gen 1 AutoWake. Can the draft sensor and amplitude display be retrofitted to a 2017??

Thanks,
RC

[Mobius22]

Another great post! Keep them coming!

[Stazi]

Thanks Matt. One additional question. Considering many of the Moomba boats are marketed as "Surf Edition", why doesn't SC ship those boats from the factory with the largest bags possible for the rear lockers? When I bought my 2017 Craz it only had 650's in the rear lockers, but being a "Surf Edition" it had the center tank and additional under-seat bow bag. Like you said, for a 150# pipsqueak that would be fine, but I could not surf it without upgrading to 1100# bags in the rear. And I still add an additional 750# bag on the seat on the side we want to surf on. I also believe in no replacement for displacement. My point is, SC needs to ship these boats with the biggest bags that fit in order to be showroom comparable to your competitors, because face it, a lot of boat buyers don't expect to have to upgrade a state of the art boat to make it surfable. Just my $0.02. FWIW, I grew up surfing in the ocean as a grom, so I'm not a newbie when it comes to surfing. Thanks in advance!


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[goose]

RC,

I might get in trouble for saying this, but we did design the system to be retrofittable. You will have to contact your dealer about ordering the parts to add the draft sensor and it would be a little work to get the draft sensor installed and in exactly the right position as obviously that is very important, but the 2018 software will work on 2017 boats with AutoWake. In future posts, I will also talk about the new predictive logic, pop ups to maximize passenger seating, and other improvements that should greatly improve your performance with AutoWake.

[goose]

Stazi,

Another good question and I wish I had a better answer for why we didn't do that in the past. In 2018, the Mojo, Craz, and Max do come with 3,000lb ballast standard. Granted you could change the 900lb bag with a longer bag that might hold 1000 or 1100 in the Mojo, but we have to balance overall storage space and passenger capacity in our decision making. Not everyone buys the boat to surf with 5000lbs in the boat. As we increase std ballast, we have to decrease std capacity left. So, if we made 4,000lbs ballast standard, then we would be left at 1,500lbs of capacity. That also reduces the number on the plate. Then if you get pulled over and have 10 people in the boat, you could be considered over capacity. Does that make sense?? That is why I am trying to educate everyone on how the entire displacement comes into play. If you only have a couple passengers, but you want 4,000lbs of total ballast, then you need to do something else because just changing the pitch or roll angle is NOT going to add the push you are looking for.

[stevemarich]

Matt, can the ballast not be added to the capacity plate? Since you are in control of how much ballast you have on board like gear or people, for the numbers you stated above could it not just read, 17 people or 5500lbs max capacity ballast gear people, just a curious thought, might not be possible or worth it . Really appreciate your info, and how you guys are always finding ways to improve your products

[goose]

Well, while that sounds very logical, unfortunately it doesn't really work in a logical fashion. We are NMMA certified. To be certified, we have to meet their standards including testing, validation and on the capacity side, they have a standard capacity calculation that we have to fill out. Truth is ballast has never really the hit the radar on this calculation. As a manufacturer, we have not "poked" the bear too much and we consider ballast as part of the boat weight. Because it is part of boat weight, then it is not the same as additional capacity. Because of safety factors and the way the capacity is calculated, 1000lbs of ballast that is included in the boat weight is actually not the same as 1000lbs of capacity as I made it seem. Without making that even more complicated or by getting into the details, lets just say we are maximizing total capacity the way we currently do it. On the Mojo specifically, if we actually took the ballast out of the weight of the boat and just included it as total capacity, it would actually reduce how much total weight we could get in the boat from 5500lbs to about 3500lbs. I know that doesn't make sense, but it is part of a standard capacity calculation that includes safety factors and such. Just so you know, we do also do a full "real float test" as we configure the boat with the actual 5500lbs of total capacity. It is actually quite funny because we do it here at the factory in our test pool and to get the total number of people we take all the engineers, sales people, marketing people, and sometimes people from the line. And considering we are a manufacturing facility, the majority of those people are male. So, if you could imagine a Mojo, sitting in a test pool, with 3000lbs of ballast and 17 dudes basically sitting on each other's laps, that is what we do every year in the new boat. Needless to say I try and get the driver seat location. I guess that is perks of my job. hahaha

Not sure if that answers your question, but just trust us that the way we are doing it today is the best way we can do it and maximizing the potential based on the way we understand it.

[MJHSupra]

So, if you could imagine a Mojo, sitting in a test pool, with 3000lbs of ballast and 17 dudes basically sitting on each other's laps, that is what we do every year in the new boat.

17 dudes in a boat on each other's lap . . . . yea . . . a day of fun in Maryville TN. Sorry Goose.

[goose]

Random AutoWake Tip of the day - Garbage In Garbage Out

Not sure if anyone has heard of that saying, but as with any computer based system, the output of the system is only as good as the inputs to the system. Our AutoWake system is actually a very complex system. While we try and make the system really easy to use, the truth is the overall system is very complex and includes many different variables. If you think about it, before AutoWake, we tried to get every driver to adjust port ballast, stbd ballast, front ballast, port flow plates, wakeplates, and stbd flow plates to the perfect spot. The driver also had to figure out how much additional weight was in the boat in terms of passengers and where those passengers were sitting. They also had to adjust speed and sometimes rope length to get each rider the perfect wave or wake for the way they liked it. While many of you are still living in that technology and doing a great job with it, you can see where this can be very complicated and intimidating for new users. That is also why if you look at our Surfing section, you will see hundreds of posts about "How do I adjust my ....." or "Flow plate settings for ...." or my favorite is always the way "Why does my wave suck so bad" posts. What happens is you can have 8 of the 9 parameters just right and it only takes 1 parameter to be off to completely screw up the wave. That one parameter might be an inaccurate paddlewheel speedo, an inaccurate ballast gauge, a flow plate that has not completely reset itself, and now you no longer have a surfable wave. In this case, an inaccurate input or sensor has totally ruined the output. You even had the parameter at the right number or setting, but the input was wrong to start with, giving you a bad experience.

Same thing can happen with AutoWake. With AutoWake, we take all the frustration out of having to try and keep up with the 9 parameters and we really reduce that to 4. They are Pitch, Roll, Displacement, and Speed. In fact, we try and make it even easier by giving you factory defaults that should give you are a really good starting point on Pitch and Roll. Now all you have to do is pick a speed and then the more displacement you add, the bigger the wave or wake. Sounds simple right?? Well, the truth is there is still one VERY important factor that has to be perfect. And that is the Inclinometer. The Inclinometer is possibly one of the most important components in the AutoWake system and it is probably the part we have talked about the least. The Inclinometer is a sensor that is mounted under the dash and it tells us exactly what the actual pitch and roll of the boat is at any time. As I said before, Garbage IN will always give you Garbage OUT so if your inclinometer is NOT sending the right information or calibrated correctly, then it will obviously not be changing the ballast to get you to an accurate pitch and roll. The first thing you always need to consider is if the Inclinometer is working properly and most importantly is it calibrated properly. We calibrate the inclinometer at the factory, but obviously sometimes we make mistakes. The best way to check the calibration of the inclinometer is to actually run the boat at wakeboarding speeds. For 2017, it was best to do that with 2 passengers that are close to same size. When driving at wakeboard speeds, it is really easy to tell when the boat is actually running level. If the wakes are symmetrical side to side, then the boat is running close to level. If the wakes are not symmetrical, have the passenger move around until wakes are level. Once you validate that, turn on AutoWake and see what the actual "Roll" is displaying. If you are displaying within .5 degrees of 0, then you are probably close enough. However, if the inclinometer says you are running at more than +1 degree or less than -1 degree, then you should recalibrate the inclinometer. To recalibrate, you can go to the Menu button, Vessel Settings, AutoWake settings, and then hit Calibrate Inclinometer. For 2017, you have to calibrate the inclinometer when the boat is sitting still because it resets pitch and roll to 0. If you did that while running, you might get roll correct, but the pitch would then be off probably 8-9 degrees. For 2018, you can calibrate pitch and roll independent of each other. So for 2018, you can actually calibrate roll while driving level.

The key to this tip is to make sure your AutoWake system is working properly, you need to make sure your Inclinometer is calibrated properly. If you are having problems with calibration, then you can also talk with your local dealer about having them do it for you. Once you get the Inclinometer calibrated correctly, there is no need to recalibrate in the future even if you upgrade software levels.

[stevemarich]

Well, while that sounds very logical, unfortunately it doesn't really work in a logical fashion. We are NMMA certified. To be certified, we have to meet their standards including testing, validation and on the capacity side, they have a standard capacity calculation that we have to fill out. Truth is ballast has never really the hit the radar on this calculation. As a manufacturer, we have not "poked" the bear too much and we consider ballast as part of the boat weight. Because it is part of boat weight, then it is not the same as additional capacity. Because of safety factors and the way the capacity is calculated, 1000lbs of ballast that is included in the boat weight is actually not the same as 1000lbs of capacity as I made it seem. Without making that even more complicated or by getting into the details, lets just say we are maximizing total capacity the way we currently do it. On the Mojo specifically, if we actually took the ballast out of the weight of the boat and just included it as total capacity, it would actually reduce how much total weight we could get in the boat from 5500lbs to about 3500lbs. I know that doesn't make sense, but it is part of a standard capacity calculation that includes safety factors and such. Just so you know, we do also do a full "real float test" as we configure the boat with the actual 5500lbs of total capacity. It is actually quite funny because we do it here at the factory in our test pool and to get the total number of people we take all the engineers, sales people, marketing people, and sometimes people from the line. And considering we are a manufacturing facility, the majority of those people are male. So, if you could imagine a Mojo, sitting in a test pool, with 3000lbs of ballast and 17 dudes basically sitting on each other's laps, that is what we do every year in the new boat. Needless to say I try and get the driver seat location. I guess that is perks of my job. hahaha

Not sure if that answers your question, but just trust us that the way we are doing it today is the best way we can do it and maximizing the potential based on the way we understand it.

It sure does Matt , figured it could not be that easy , thanks again for the tips and info.

[BigOrange]

As an engineer, the advice to calibrate on the go seems too dangerous with variability. Wouldn't more a more prudent argument be setting on the trailer still on a good level lot with a long bar level checking across the seats port to starboard? Granted, some folks who store at the lake won't have this chance but at beginning and end of season but if they know that up front.....

[padge]

I've been out on a 18 mojo pro, it had the amp setting but we didn't know what it was lol


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[padge]

And we got the best wave with autowake off.


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[gregski]

Hey Matt, what are you using for the draft sensors? I've been homebrewing a system that sounds an awful lot like Autowake. I'm using pressure transducers measuring an air tube with the open end held underwater.

[goose]

As an engineer, the advice to calibrate on the go seems too dangerous with variability. Wouldn't more a more prudent argument be setting on the trailer still on a good level lot with a long bar level checking across the seats port to starboard? Granted, some folks who store at the lake won't have this chance but at beginning and end of season but if they know that up front.....

BigOrange,

I agree that finding a completely level spot and using a long bar level is a great idea. However, as an engineer, I am sure you are also familiar with design for manufacturability or design for feasibility. Unfortunately, I don't think many people have a completely flat spot where they can assure that the boat is actually level and there is not an easy way to level the actual boat if the boat is not level. I guess you could get a floor jack and try adjusting the trailer to make sure the boat is level, but that isn't very feasible. In our manufacturing plant, we put boats on dollies manually to move through the plant. Because of that, every boat is sitting slightly different on the dolly so the only place we can calibrate it is on the water. We think that is our most consistent place to calibrate it and that is why we do it that way. But the truth is if it is a windy day or if the tester is not paying extra close attention, his calibration can be slightly off. That is why I am recommending everyone check it. In addition to that, in the testing we have done, it actually takes a fairly large change in roll before you actually "feel" the difference in the wave. If the roll is .5 degree off from perfect, it is likely you wouldn't really feel or see the difference. Truth is wind, depth, chop and other variables would be worse than if the roll is not 100% perfect. Plus, the boat actually sees a LOT of movement as the boat runs through the water. We had to do special dampening to the "real" roll values so that the system is not jumping all over the place. Anyways, I probably went to far on all that. Your suggestion is a great one and if people can do that, then it would make the system even more accurate. But I think calibrating on the water when you know the boat really is level should work well for the majority of the users...

[goose]

And we got the best wave with autowake off.


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Padge,

Glad you were able to get a good wave without AutoWake. Maybe I have done a bad job in my "selling" of AutoWake. The intent of AutoWake is not to make the "Perfect" wave in terms of tallest, or longest, or best push. AutoWake can NOT take a wave and double it's size or length. As I said before, only displacement can actually make a wave bigger. What AutoWake is designed to do is get you a good consistent wave every time without the frustration of having to change 9 different variables. It is designed to take the intimidation out of wakesurfing and probably is best for non "Advanced" users. If you have been adjusting passenger weight, adding ballast, and finetuning plate settings to get the best wave that way and you are very familiar how to do that, then I would consider you an advanced user and in that case, then I wouldn't be surprised if you got the best wave with AutoWake off. However, in future tips, I can teach you how to use AutoWake to duplicate the best wave every time. If you don't think you need AutoWake, then that is great. But based on all the new owners that we have that do really struggle with just getting a decent wave, we think AutoWake is a great new tool that will make everyone have a great time of the water every day. Hopefully once I explain it better to everyone, we will have even more people that have confidence in it and know how to use it properly. At least that is my goal. Also, I am hoping through this process I will get some feedback about how to even better improve it for the future.... Hope that makes sense.

[goose]

Hey Matt, what are you using for the draft sensors? I've been homebrewing a system that sounds an awful lot like Autowake. I'm using pressure transducers measuring an air tube with the open end held underwater.

Gregski,

While I don't want to give away all our trade secrets, I can tell you that Supra and Moomba actually use 2 different draft sensors. I wouldn't necessarily say one is better than the other, but we actually have 2 different ways to do it. On Supra, we do actually use a version of a pressure transducer. On Moomba, we actually are using a tube that holds a column of water. I will just leave it at that. We also have a patent on the use and design of the draft sensor and how we use it with AutoWake but most people didn't realize that. We actually have several patents when it comes to AutoWake. We don't make a huge deal about sending press release out all the time or beat our chest about how technologically advanced we are. But when it comes to this technology, I would say that we are on the leading edge when it comes to some of the stuff we are doing...

[goose]

Random AutoWake Tip of the day - Why Does AutoWake drain ballast

AutoWake is designed to keep a boat at a consistent pitch or roll. If the boat is not at the correct roll, then it will drain ballast on one side or the other until it sees the correct roll. If the boat is not at the correct pitch, then it will drain ballast in the front to try and achieve a higher pitch. If you don’t want AutoWake to drain ballast, then you can use the actual pitch or roll numbers to tell passengers where to move so that the ballast can stay as full as possible. For 2018, if the system drains more than 20% of ballast in one compartment, then a popup will come up to tell you where to move passengers to better optimize more ballast in the boat.

Where this really becomes a problem is when you start trying to be "smarter" than the system. As I said before, prior to AutoWake, you had to adjust at least 9 variables to get the wave "dialed" for that day. Because of all the years of this, people have gotten in their head that certain things will "ALWAYS" make the wave better. Some have heard that if you just keep adding weight to the side you are surfing it will get better. Some have heard that if just keep adding weight to the rear, the wave will get taller. Some have heard that if you just keep adding weight to the front then the wave will get longer. Some have heard that if you are having a hard time getting a wave, move the flow plate down on the opposite side. While most of that is true most of the time, nothing "ALWAYS" works like you might think. While most will never admit it (including me somedays), a Microprocessor using sensors is actually smarter than all of us. While I consider myself a fairly advanced driver, I don't have an inclinometer in my brain. I don't have a draft sensor either. While I can typically look at a wave and have a general idea of what to adjust to make it better, I don't have a microprocessor that is calculating all the variables and doing the correct adjustment based on constraints and logic. What I have found is many users are using AutoWake to get started, but quickly start adjusting pitch and roll or flow plates because they think they are improving the system. Again, I will get into that later and how you can do that, but before you start doing that, you should make sure you really understand what AutoWake is doing, why it is doing it, and then that will help you learn how to adjust it later. Visualization always helps me, so I will try to explain with an example.

Lets say we are on the lake in a 2018 Mojo with 3000lb ballast system and 5 people. To get the day started, one decides to surf on port side and we turn on AutoWake. After about 6 minutes (because we now have 6 pump ballast system), static mode is achieved at 100% AMP setting. The ballast is 100% full on port side, 90% full on stbd side and 75% full on front. We have started with factory settings of 9 degrees pitch and -3 degrees roll and the flow plates are at factory default of 60% on stbd plate. Before we take off, static settings for that show the boat is currently sitting at .2 degrees pitch and -2.1 degrees roll. We have 1 passenger driving. 1 sitting behind driver, 1 sitting in observer seat and one sitting in port rear seat corner. Boat takes off and luckily static mode and dynamic mode are exactly correct and once boat hits surfing speed, we are AutoWake achieved at 9 degrees pitch and -3 degrees roll. The wave looks pretty good and all is well. But then the person sitting behind driver decides he has heard if he moves to port side, wave will get better. So, he gets up and moves to port lounge seat. If the driver is looking at screen he will notice this changes roll from -3 to -5. At first wave actually is still really good, but actually gets a little steeper. So now the passenger in the rear seat has heard to make the wake not as steep to move weight forward, so he jumps out of his seat and runs to bow. Again, if the driver watches screen, he will notice now the pitch changes from 9 degrees to 8 degrees. The wave does get a little longer and for now, we are better. Truth is 8 and -5 is probably not much different than 9 and -3, but everyone thinks they have improved the wave. However, AutoWake starts adjusting. You have now changed passenger location but not changed pitch and roll so the only thing it knows to do is react. So, AutoWake drains stbd rear ballast to get roll back to -3. It will actually have to drain about 400lbs because the 200lb passenger moving from stbd to port actually made a really big difference. In addition, the front also has to drain about 400lbs to get pitch back to 9. The loss of rear ballast AND passenger moving drastically change that. So, now AutoWake has removed 800lbs of ballast which is equivalent to about 4 people. This loss of ballast drastically changes amount of push, rider loses the wave and falls. Driver turns AutoWake off to see ballast level, realizes AutoWake drained ballast and he starts cussing AutoWake and says it doesn't work. Anyone had an experience like that??

Here is another one I have seen. Same group of 5 people go on lake. They have now heard that someone had a better experience with Flow plates at 85% and with default pitch of 12 and roll of -6. So, before they ever take off, they adjust stbd flow plate to 85%, change pitch to 12 and roll to -6. AutoWake is fine with that, so it adjusts ballast. This time they decide to sit differently. They want to try out the new sliding rear seat so 1 passenger drives, 1 passenger sits in OB seat, and 2 sit in the middle of the boat in the rear facing sliding seat. Because of where people are sitting to get to 12 pitch, the front ballast actually doesn't fill up at all. So NO ballast in the front. Also, to get to -6 roll with passengers sitting evenly the port rear ballast does fill to 100% but the stbd ballast only fills to 30%. In addition to that, with the plates now at 85% and with only about 1300lbs of ballast total, the pitch and roll of 12 and -6 do get achieved, but the extra lift from the plate being down so far basically makes a wave you can see, but has absolutely no push. Again, driver is now frustrated with AutoWake, turns off system, fills all bags manually and swears that AutoWake doesn't work. Anyone had this experience??

In both of these cases, in 2018 as soon as the rear ballast gets less than 80%, a popup will come up to tell you to move passengers to stbd. It didn't do that in 2017, but this is a nice improvement for 2018 to tell you that you are NOT optimizing ballast because of where the passengers are sitting relative to your pitch and roll numbers. Also, on the 2nd case, it will give you a warning that you need to move weight to rear because you have drained all front ballast. So, in order to have an experience like this in 2018, you have to physically tell the system that you don't care that it is draining ballast. While the popups can be frustrating, they will at least tell you know when they have drained more than 20% ballast. Also in both of these cases you have tried to outsmart the system by either making the system better by moving passengers or by adjusting factory defaults. Again, I will eventually talk about advanced users and how to adjust pitch and roll for when you add additional ballast or meet certain levels on the Amplitude bar but for today, the tip is trust the system. Try weighting the boat close to level with passengers. Try using default pitch and roll and flow plate locations. Watch what the system does and gain confidence. Also, try adding additional passengers or ballast and watch how the amplitude bar changes as passengers are added. Make mental notes of what the "Magic Line" is where the wave has good "Push" and then make mental notes of when the amplitude bar is so low that you don't have much push. I really think if you will trust the system and experiment with the new Amplitude Bar then you will find that the factory defaults actually work very well the majority of the time.

I will be completely honest, when we were developing AutoWake I was skeptical that the system could be a better driver than I was. I constantly adjusted pitch and roll and at first I used pitch and roll adjustments like I used to make ballast adjustments or plate adjustments. However, what I found was many times I would adjust the system just to find out I actually didn't make an improvement in overall feel. I would adjust pitch because I thought more pitch had to make the wave taller or give more push, but in reality more times than not that wasn't the case. To get the higher pitch it would typically drain ballast and less displacement actually ended with less push even with higher pitch. Same went for roll. I would think if -3 is good, then -6 HAD to be better. But that wasn't the case. Truth is to maximize push and overall energy of the wave, sometimes a less pitch or less roll actually worked better. With the right amount of displacement, the factory settings of 9 and -3 are really better than a modified setting of 11 pitch and -5 roll, ESPECIALLY if you have more displacement with factory settings and less displacement with "advanced" settings. I really can't stress this enough, there really is no replacement for displacement. If you have 10,000lbs of ballast, then it really doesn't matter what pitch and roll are. Think of the videos you have seen of people surfing behind yachts. It is just a matter of potential energy. With a big enough wave, the face can be all white washed and foamy, but if the wave is big enough, you can still surf some part of it.

Ok, that is all for today. Hopefully everyone will be talking about the New Max the rest of the day. I will try and post another tip before end of the week.

[wolfeman131]

I will try and post another tip before end of the week.

Holy guacamole, there sure is a lot of "tips" for using & understanding AutoWake. I think it's awesome that Matt is giving these detailed rundowns and hope that the dealers are all paying attention. Nothing worse, IMO, than an uneducated/ignorant/lazy salesperson.

[Mobius22]

Hopefully we can get this stickied to the "General" page to get more views! Very useful and important info for everyone.

[wolfeman131]

Hopefully we can get this stickied to the "General" page to get more views! Very useful and important info for everyone.

I'd offer to do that for you, but . . . . .

[Prospersigman]

I know that my salesperson and the guy that took me out on my demo ride right before I bought my SA did not know or share any of this type of information with me.

[Mobius22]

I'd offer to do that for you, but . . . . .

Well... we all know how that can be changed back...

[Pound]

Hey Matt,
How does Autowake work for wakeboarding? is it going to be constantly trying to adjust for roll as the rider pulls out to either side? Or do most people just not use it for wakeboarding?

Also in your last dissertation (kidding, thanks for putting so much time into this) you only mentioned the system draining ballast to achieve its settings. Can it not also transfer ballast between port/starboard etc? that would be more efficient and result in less overall loss of ballast when passengers move around which unfortunately is just part of life on a tow boat most of the time.

[Stazi]

Hey Matt,
How does Autowake work for wakeboarding? is it going to be constantly trying to adjust for roll as the rider pulls out to either side? Or do most people just not use it for wakeboarding?

Also in your last dissertation (kidding, thanks for putting so much time into this) you only mentioned the system draining ballast to achieve its settings. Can it not also transfer ballast between port/starboard etc? that would be more efficient and result in less overall loss of ballast when passengers move around which unfortunately is just part of life on a tow boat most of the time.

IMHO Autoflow works the best for wakeboarding as it ensures even wakes despite uneven passenger seating, so I use it for that and I like it. You also can get more consistent wakeboarding wakes every time with it. My fondness of it ends with surfing though as it like to remove ballast to reach the roll and pitch settings and personally I rather fill everything to the max and adjust my plates to tune the wave. Taking any weight out just diminishes the wave size in my experience.


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[goose]

Stazi is correct, AutoWake does work well for wakeboarding. When the rider pulls against the boat, the boat does see a change in roll, but the logic in the system does not react immediately and we think we have the response about right to keep the wakes level the majority of the time. In addition to keeping the boat level, in Wakeboard mode, AutoWake also includes AutoLaunch that deploys both Flow plates to get on plane faster. In fact, for a heavily weighted boat, it makes a HUGE difference. I think you will really like it.

Stazi, I will try and give another dissertation (haha) later for advanced users such as yourself. Maybe tomorrow....

[Stazi]

Cheers mate! Yes the launch system is awesome when you are running a lot of wake or a big crew!


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[stevemarich]

with wakeboarding on autowake it is really nice , the launch system works really well, with the factory wakeboard prop , running 4200 lbs of ballast, it pulled me right out of the water with no struggle, and got on to plane very quickly. for surfing I haven't had to much issue with it always want to drain ballast, but also put people or movable ballast where i want them first, get up to speed check my against settings and adjust before autowake can adjust, then it only has to make minor ballast changes. As for people moving around in the boat, it made me laugh because one of our passengers decided to move from the port to starboard side while my wife was surfing, she immediately noticed to difference , looked up and told them to move back where they were, and problem solved. Love the info we are getting keep it coming.

[mattsask]

Hey goose, is there any way to get the system on my 16 craz to react like autolaunch? I have an agressive prop and like to run 4k of ballast, but the boat REALLY struggles to get up to 22mph for wake boarding. Is there any way I can deploy both of my autoflow tabs along with the wakeplate?

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[goose]

Hey goose, is there any way to get the system on my 16 craz to react like autolaunch? I have an agressive prop and like to run 4k of ballast, but the boat REALLY struggles to get up to 22mph for wake boarding. Is there any way I can deploy both of my autoflow tabs along with the wakeplate?

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Mattsask,

What I used to do before AutoLaunch was leave the surf system down. Not sure if everyone knows this, but if you leave the flow plates down, they automatically come up at 15mph. It is not quite the same as AutoLaunch, but there were times when it got me on plane whereas with no flow plate help, I couldn't get on plane. Unfortunately in 2016 there was no way to deploy both plates at same time, but this should help.

[Pound]

You guys wakeboard w/4k of ballast!! holy cow. Y'all must be throwin' double backrolls and speedballs or whatever it's called.

[mattsask]

Well more like 3800, but who's counting... I just like to burn fuel. Haha

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[stevemarich]

I am the only one that wakeboards, and it wasn't calm enough till later in the day, didn't feel like dumping ballast for a 5 min run, and was a little curious how the boat and launch system would do too. I used to drain about 50% before wakeboarding , now ill just leave it was a really fun ride, and there was no struggle at all with the boat.

[goose]

Random AutoWake tip of the day – Advanced users (part 1)
Ok, I am a little hesitant to even write this tip because I have found that many times people just skip all the basics when they see the advanced option and in the case of AutoWake, understanding and learning how the system really works is very important. While AutoWake is designed to be really easy to use and is intended to take the frustration out of having to “dial” in the surf wave, we have also found AutoWake to be a great learning tool. Like I said before, I would consider myself an advanced user. I have personally driven many professional wakeboarding events including the Masters, Nationals, and at Worlds. I have been developing boats for 17 years and I have been a part of most of all the surf development here. I feel like I can look at the wave or wake and take a decent guess at what needs to be changed to improve it. However, most people don’t have that much experience. Many of our consumers are first time v-drive owners and they just got the boat to spend more time with their family to enjoy surfing. With all the forums and social media outlets, I think sometimes they get “advanced” suggestions and think that these suggestions make them “advanced” users without really understanding the basics. So, without really learning how the boat or components work, they just go out and start changing plates, ballasts, passenger locations, and they end up actually making things worse the majority of the time. Again, I said this before, but just go to the Wakesurf Forum, or WakeWorld and scroll down a few threads. 90% of those threads are first timers asking for help and getting hundreds of DIFFERENT suggestions about what to change. Many times what actually happens is the users try ALL the different suggestions, then learn by trial and error what each component actually does, and instead of the “advanced” settings fixing the wake, the user fixes it themselves because they have learned the hard way how to adjust it themselves. Truth is I guess most things in life are learned the hard way, so maybe it is supposed to be that way. Haha

Anyways, as I said, if you let it, AutoWake can be an amazing learning tool. That is why my first suggestion has always been if you want to be an advanced user, first leave AutoWake in factory default settings. Watch how AutoWake works every time you use the boat and constantly look at the pitch and roll displayed on AutoWake and then mentally make a note of how the wake looks with that pitch and roll. Try to manually fill all the ballast to 100% sometimes before turning on AutoWake and watch how AutoWake adjusts. Try turning AutoWake on with 0% ballast and watch how AutoWake adjusts. If you first take off and the Wave is not formed perfectly, make a mental note of the actual roll. Then look at roll again once the wave is clean and see how much different it looks. Watch the length of the wave, size of the wave, and again compare that to pitch values when wave is good and when it is not. Also, with the 2018 Amplitude bar, watch how the size of the wave grows or ask how the push is and make mental notes of how that relates to location on Amplitude bar. Every time you stop the boat or at any time when you are driving, hit a ballast switch to turn it on, then right back off. That will toggle it out of AutoWake and back into manual mode without affecting cruise. By doing that, you can see exactly where the ballast levels are. To toggle back into AutoWake, just hit bottom left button again. By doing this, you can see how well you are maximizing ballast and how the ballast is adjusting relative to where you have passengers seated.

I feel VERY strongly that if you leave the AutoWake in factory defaults you will have a good wave every time. Will it be optimal or largest wave possible? Maybe not. But I promise you that if you watch and learn how the system reacts then you will better understand what a bad wave is and what a good wave is and how much pitch and roll had to be adjusted to correct it. You will also see how much passenger weight impacts pitch and roll. You will get an idea quickly that if you need to adjust roll 2 degrees, approximately how much passenger weight is required to do that without dumping a lot of ballast. You will get an idea quickly that if the wave is really tall and not long, how much pitch change might be required to lengthen it, and approximately how much passenger weight is required to do that. You will get a great idea of if you want a certain amount of push, how much total displacement is needed. And lastly, as you toggle between AutoWake screen and Manual Cruise screen, you will see when AutoWake is dumping ballast and then you can figure out how to help the system NOT drain ballast by putting people in the correct location. As I said, 2018 software will have popups to help you with that, but as you get to be a more advanced driver, you will actually start reacting before AutoWake sends a popup because you will actually understand WHY you are doing it.

If you will notice, at this point I never mentioned adjusting flow plates or wakeplates. That will be part of “advanced user part 2”. Stay tuned…..

[Mobius22]

Keep it coming, Matt! Great info.

[stevemarich]

Maybe this had happened to other people , but today while using auto wake , had everything set for port surfing got going auto wake achieved, then the wake started to look like crap , my wife was driving, we stop and look at the screen , and the suffer dude was still pointed for port surf , starboard plate was down , but the auto wake settings changed to starboard surf settings while driving and it had dumped 65% of the port ballast, had to flip the auto flow switch to middle and start over , I have noticed alot but I can catch it when I drive , some major software issues going on

[kennc]

Maybe this had happened to other people , but today while using auto wake , had everything set for port surfing got going auto wake achieved, then the wake started to look like crap , my wife was driving, we stop and look at the screen , and the suffer dude was still pointed for port surf , starboard plate was down , but the auto wake settings changed to starboard surf settings while driving and it had dumped 65% of the port ballast, had to flip the auto flow switch to middle and start over , I have noticed alot but I can catch it when I drive , some major software issues going onSimilar thing has happened on my 17 Mojo. I was surfing port side, wife was driving. On autowake, boat was dumping port locker and listing to starboard.

Has happened a few times. Very frustrating.

Don't like the idea of driving 4 hours round-trip to see if dealer can replicate it. Which of course they won't.

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[Stazi]

Common factor is the wife....jus' sayin' 🤷🏼*♂️


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[kennc]

Common factor is the wife....jus' sayin' 🤷🏼*♂️


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYeah, I went down that road. After I got out of the doghouse, I became confident it was software issue.

It happened today when I was driving.

Seems like it is trying to achieve opposite side pitch and roll settings.


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[stevemarich]

I would have gone down that road too, but auto flow switch was still in same place, starboard plate was in the same position , and screen indicated surf port , but the auto wake settings changed to the starboard settings , the other times when it happens it is when I turn the boat off to change riders , turn boat off , key back to on to get everything booted up , but when the key is turned back on , the port plate goes down , but the switch is still in surf port , flip the switch to middle and back all is normal , it does this 1 out of 5 times , having it change the actual auto wake settings while driving , I don't think my wife could navigate through the menu and do that while driving , and again flip switch to middle and back to surf port ,all is good , other than the time it took to get the ballast refilled.

[goose]

Steve and Kenn, I am going to send this feedback to our vendor. Honestly, I have never seen this, but as you eluded to, software glitches can happen. The hardest software glitches to fix are when they happen randomly and are not reproducible. I will also try doing some testing and see if I can duplicate. Typically when we test systems such as this, we do more cycle testing to see what happens when you switch from surf left, to surf right, to off, etc. It sounds like your issue is happening more from long term use in the same day with multiple key cycles?? Is that accurate? Or is there anything else that maybe you are doing that might help me trying to trouble shoot?? My typical personal family use is quite different. I surf port side, but also surf some stbd side. I like mixing it up quite a bit so I don't typically surf the same side for very long. My oldest surfs port and my wife surfs starboard. In addition, we have an almost 3 year old and between sets we do a lot of swimming. I typically turn the system off between sets so that I don't accidentally the leave the system on when I put it on the trailer because sometimes the swim sessions turn into long affairs that end up with going home. My oldest is also 10 and that means we rarely ever go to the lake without a friend. Most times that friend doesn't know how to surf or wakeboard so we pull them on the wake sled or kneeboard. And occasionally my wife likes to ski. What I am saying is we typically use the boat for all disciplines and very randomly throughout the day. So, maybe how I use the boat is a lot different than how you guys are using the boat and maybe that is why I haven't seen this "glitch" you are talking about. If you have any more details that might help us duplicate it let me know. If you want you can also email me at [email protected] if you don't want to write a novel on here about it. Thanks for the feedback and hopefully if there is a glitch we can find it and fix it. And I also assume you are running 2017 software? Maybe if it was a glitch then it got corrected already? If not, then we do need to correct it so thanks for your help.

[stevemarich]

We all surf port in my family and crew, after going to bigger bags we have to list slightly to keep the surf tabs 65 and under for the port side so no more transfer while surfing for now , yes running a 2017 , the glitches that happen the most are when after surfing port for awhile, turn the boat off to swap riders , after turning the boat off, I turn the key back to the on position after a minute or less to let the system boot up while rider's are changing, before powering off, everything is left in surf port side, when powering back on the starboard plate comes up and the port plate will go down, but the surfer dude is still showing surf port and auto flow is in surf port, no huge issue as I see it happening and flip the auto flow to middle and back and problem solved for now, that issue happens about 1 out of 5 times same. The most frustrating one is when using auto wake , I got everything set for my daughter to surf, ran the boat till auto wake was achieved, turned it off , got her in water and ready , started surfing , no issues, did 10 minute run she drops the rope and goes for a minute without it , and falls out of wake , her own mistake,we circle around throw the rope and go again , never shutting boat off or changing anything, after going for 5. Minutes or so I'm noticing the wave changing for the worse , we stop and looking at the screen the set point in auto wake changed to the starboard settings, auto flow was still in surf port , just set points changed , so it dropped port bag to 50,% and filled starboard to 100% while starboard plate is still deployed. I definitely get glitches in software , see it all the time in New vehicles. Hope there is enough to go of for some think tank action. Keep up the good work , any manufacturer will have some sort issue with something, it's how they address it is key . Thanks for your involvement Matt, speaks wonders about SC.

[goose]

We all surf port in my family and crew, after going to bigger bags we have to list slightly to keep the surf tabs 65 and under for the port side so no more transfer while surfing for now , yes running a 2017 , the glitches that happen the most are when after surfing port for awhile, turn the boat off to swap riders , after turning the boat off, I turn the key back to the on position after a minute or less to let the system boot up while rider's are changing, before powering off, everything is left in surf port side, when powering back on the starboard plate comes up and the port plate will go down, but the surfer dude is still showing surf port and auto flow is in surf port, no huge issue as I see it happening and flip the auto flow to middle and back and problem solved for now, that issue happens about 1 out of 5 times same. The most frustrating one is when using auto wake , I got everything set for my daughter to surf, ran the boat till auto wake was achieved, turned it off , got her in water and ready , started surfing , no issues, did 10 minute run she drops the rope and goes for a minute without it , and falls out of wake , her own mistake,we circle around throw the rope and go again , never shutting boat off or changing anything, after going for 5. Minutes or so I'm noticing the wave changing for the worse , we stop and looking at the screen the set point in auto wake changed to the starboard settings, auto flow was still in surf port , just set points changed , so it dropped port bag to 50,% and filled starboard to 100% while starboard plate is still deployed. I definitely get glitches in software , see it all the time in New vehicles. Hope there is enough to go of for some think tank action. Keep up the good work , any manufacturer will have some sort issue with something, it's how they address it is key . Thanks for your involvement Matt, speaks wonders about SC.

Perfect! That type of detail helps a lot and I will try that exact setup and see what I can find. I am sorry you had that issue and glitch, but maybe with your help we can figure out what is going on and get an improved version. Like I said, the 2018 software actually works in 2017 and adds some additional logic like predictive state that honestly I think you will love! It also removes ballast minimums and the logic that auto fills one side before doing anything else. It might be possible that when we changed to the predictive logic it fixed a glitch we didn't know existed. But it might still be there and we didn't even know. As an fyi, there is also a soft and hard bootup based on time that key is off. It might be that we need to test more what happens if you leave the systems on during these and that might be the cause of the glitch. I will keep you posted. Thanks again for the help and patience on the matter.

[stevemarich]

Perfect! That type of detail helps a lot and I will try that exact setup and see what I can find. I am sorry you had that issue and glitch, but maybe with your help we can figure out what is going on and get an improved version. Like I said, the 2018 software actually works in 2017 and adds some additional logic like predictive state that honestly I think you will love! It also removes ballast minimums and the logic that auto fills one side before doing anything else. It might be possible that when we changed to the predictive logic it fixed a glitch we didn't know existed. But it might still be there and we didn't even know. As an fyi, there is also a soft and hard bootup based on time that key is off. It might be that we need to test more what happens if you leave the systems on during these and that might be the cause of the glitch. I will keep you posted. Thanks again for the help and patience on the matter.

You bet , the good news is that they are minor glitches imop and never have caused us to come off the water early which is awesome, I will try to get a video if I remember

[kennc]

I sent an email with a screen shot of the system info. Also included some detail on our experience to help with potential diagnose of issue.

For sake of other forum members, the upshot is that my experience is essentially similar, which is to say, Autowake seems to be trying to achieve goofy surfing "roll" even when set for regular surfing.

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[moombahighrider]

ran the boat till auto wake was achieved, turned it off , got her in water and ready , started surfing , no issues, did 10 minute run she drops the rope and goes for a minute without it , and falls out of wake , her own mistake,we circle around throw the rope and go again , never shutting boat off or changing anything, after going for 5. Minutes or so I'm noticing the wave changing for the worse , we stop and looking at the screen the set point in auto wake changed to the starboard settings, auto flow was still in surf port , just set points changed , so it dropped port bag to 50,% and filled starboard to 100% while starboard plate is still deployed. I definitely get glitches in software , see it all the time in New vehicles. Hope there is enough to go of for some think tank action. Keep up the good work , any manufacturer will have some sort issue with something, it's how they address it is key . Thanks for your involvement Matt, speaks wonders about SC.

I can confirm some of the same issues on my 17 mojo. I have not noticed issues with the wrong plate deploying but I did see the weight being sent to the opposite bags yesterday. Initially the port wave was dialed once autowake was achieved with no rider. We stopped and turned the engine off to get a surfer in the water, started back up and got under way, it looked great but with in a few mins the wave started falling apart. I checked the percentages on the rear bags and the port bag had emptied while the starboard bag had filled. I turned auto flow off and manually got the bags back to where they should have been and the wave was rockin again.

[kennc]

I can confirm some of the same issues on my 17 mojo. I have not noticed issues with the wrong plate deploying but I did see the weight being sent to the opposite bags yesterday. Initially the port wave was dialed once autowake was achieved with no rider. We stopped and turned the engine off to get a surfer in the water, started back up and got under way, it looked great but with in a few mins the wave started falling apart. I checked the percentages on the rear bags and the port bag had emptied while the starboard bag had filled. I turned auto flow off and manually got the bags back to where they should have been and the wave was rockin again.Yep, exactly


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[Smokeuu]

can this be added to the 16 craz and cost?

[goose]

Well, thanks to all the feedback and detailed explanation, I have been able to duplicate the issue. Honestly, I apologize and I am embarrassed that we were not able to catch this glitch in the validation process. What I have found is this...Sometimes when the switch is in Surf Port location, if you turn the key off, it actually sends a command to the PDM that tells the system to switch sides. If you look very closely before the screen shuts off, when this happens you can see the surf guy quickly change sides and it does change the roll default. If you look at the transom, this signal actually pulls up the stbd plate and deploys the port plate. The reason is does this is because all the commands are actually sent via a ground signal. It doesn't happen every time, but sometimes in the power down sequence, it actually sends a ground signal to the wrong input and slips the operation. I could NOT get the glitch to happen when leaving the port plate down for surfing stbd side so that is why some people might not ever see it. Also, if you turn surf off every time like I do, you wouldn't see it. However, if you surf port side all the time and leave switch in that position, then it wouldn't surprise me if you saw it very often through the day. Why it does that is very complicated and honestly I don't understand it but that is what is happening. The worst part is when you turn key back on, the little surfer switches back to the correct side, however the wrong plate stays down and the roll default stays wrong. So, it would actually completely ruin the wake because the wrong plate is deployed and it would try and drain ballast from wrong side. To fix it, you have to turn surf off, then back to correct side. I have relayed all this to the vendor, they are going to try and issue a field fix asap and we will try to make that field fix as easily accessible as possible. Of course, once we have it you can contact your dealer if you don't feel like flashing the software, but you can also do it yourself by putting the file on a memory stick and following a process.

Again I sincerely apologize that we didn't catch this glitch to now. But we do really appreciate the feedback and hopefully now we will have a better system because of it. Also, I feel terrible because I thought some of our negative feedback was because people may not have understood AutoWake or changed settings, when the truth is this glitch probably caused lots of frustration and poor performance. Again, until we get the fix you can just turn Surf off and back on to make sure it is correct, or look at the roll number. Or turn surf off when you turn the key off. Hopefully we will have a fix very quickly and I will post again on here how to get the fix and how to reflash the software. Thank you for your help and patience.

[goose]

can this be added to the 16 craz and cost?

Unfortunately you can not add AutoWake to any 2016 except the Helix. It requires the color 480 display. The standard display in 2016 did not have enough processing power or memory to handle the software. Sorry.

[moombahighrider]

Matt, thanks so much for getting back to us and verifying so quickly. Super appreciate how seriously you guys are taking this. Hopefully the fix is not too hard to get sorted out

[dusty2221]

Matt, way to jump on the issue. Glad to have you onboard posting more and sharing tips and tricks.

[moombahighrider]

Matt, a slightly related question: when turning surf off, would that not start adjusting your ballast settings to go to wakeboard instead of surf? That is one of the reasons I would leave port surf on between riders, but I always shut the engine off when switching riders.

[stevemarich]

Thanks Matt, glad you guys were able to duplicate the problem, and start working on solution, thanks again

[goose]

Matt, a slightly related question: when turning surf off, would that not start adjusting your ballast settings to go to wakeboard instead of surf? That is one of the reasons I would leave port surf on between riders, but I always shut the engine off when switching riders.

You are correct. If you turned surf off and left key on, then it would try and adjust ballast to wakeboard settings. However, if you turn surf off, then turn key off, then it wouldn't have time to really even turn the ballast pump on. When key is off, it wouldn't try and adjust.

Also, after a little more testing I found that if you leave the key off long enough, WITH the surf switch still on port surf, then eventually it would get into a hard boot startup. On a hard boot, it would actually reset the plates, then see the input, then correct the issue. So, lets say you left the port side switch on. Rider number 1 is finished so you pick them up, turn key off. If that rider changes his mind and wants to ride or you turned the key off to give them instruction, then the glitch might happen. But if you turn key off, change riders and that takes a few minutes, then you would actually then see a hard boot and with a hard boot, the glitch would not happen. Which in turn makes the glitch even more random. Bottom line is we have a problem, thanks to your help we have found it, and I have asked the vendor to fast track the solution and I will try to make it as easy as possible to correct. In the mean time hopefully I have given some ideas of how to prevent the glitch from happening until we can get the solution.

Another fix around the glitch is you can bump the safety lanyard to turn key off without actually turning the display off. Again, most people probably didn't even realize you can do that, but with key on, you can push the red button of the safety lanyard at anytime and actually it will turn off ignition. However, it doesn't cycle display power which in turn doesn't send a random ground signal causing the glitch to start with. Hopefully we will have a solution in hand before many of you even get back to the water but that is just another tip if you didn't know that.

[stevemarich]

have done the safety switch , bumped it with my knee while towing a surfer, and it works , was a little funny at the time. Thanks again Matt.

[Pound]

Bottom line is we have a problem, thanks to your help we have found it, and I have asked the vendor to fast track the solution and I will try to make it as easy as possible to correct.

I don't spend any time on other boat manufacturer's websites/discussion forums but I ask, what other boat company (or car company for that matter) has this kind of relationship with it's owners. This right here is an example of EXCELLENCE in customer satisfaction. With any complicated system like this, there is going to be some untested bugs. It's unfortunate in a product of this cost, but it does happen. It's not unique to Skier's Choice by any stretch of the imagination. Do you think for a second, MC, Malibu, Nautique have product developers engaged w/their customers at this level... and with this rapid of a response. Matt, whatever Rick is paying you is not enough.

[goose]

Thanks Pound, everyone here at Skiers appreciates the kind words. We are just trying to do our best.

[Prospersigman]

And that is why I choose to say with Skiers Choice!! My wife wanted to trade up from out 2016 Mojo to a G23 and I was tempted by the lifted skirt and perfumed inner thigh of a G23. I spent hours reading through this forum and other forums and no other company offer this kind of support. Bottom line Skiers Choice is killing the competition with customer service like this.

[russellsmojo]

And that is why I choose to say with Skiers Choice!! My wife wanted to trade up from out 2016 Mojo to a G23 and I was tempted by the lifted skirt and perfumed inner thigh of a G23. I spent hours reading through this forum and other forums and no other company offer this kind of support. Bottom line Skiers Choice is killing the competition with customer service like this.

Slightly excited reading about the inner thigh!


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[Stazi]

Lmfao!


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[Woody929]

I think the AutoWake system is just trying to let everybody know they should ride GOOFY!!! [emoji3][emoji3]

[shockthis]

So I am a nautique owner, we went and demoed a few different boats. The first boat we hopped in was a supra sa, I have to say that autowake is a sales persons best friend. I went wakeboarding and the wake was awesome, level and fun. Then my wife went surfing and the wake was great.
We then tried a tige and a centurion, the boats were nice but setting them up was a pain as the sales people didn't get it dialled in. The nautique dealer did get g23 set up.
I have to say this will sell more boats as it makes the sales guys job much easier well done supra/moomba

[goose]

Random AutoWake Tip of the Day – Advanced Users (part 2 – Flow Plates)

The truth is when it comes to wakesurfing, it is pretty simple what effects the waves. Displacement is priority #1. It trumps everything. Displacement is only created by ballast and passengers. Without displacement, you don’t have a wave. You can adjust flow plates, wakeplates, suck gates, etc all you want, but if you don’t have displacement then you don’t have a wave and you definitely don’t have push. Once you have displacement, then it truly is the overall pitch and roll of the boat that shapes the wave. Roll has the most impact on shape, and Pitch has most impact on length. The flow plates and wakeplates DO affect roll and pitch, but NOT NEAR as much as displacement does. If you have 1000lbs of displacement equally distributed, you could adjust flow plates and wakeplate to get a wave, but if you have 3000lbs of displacement placed in exactly the right place, then you don’t need flow plates or wakeplates at all. 7 years ago wake shaping devices didn’t exist. People surfed by listing boats. Flow plates, wakeplates, Surf Gates, NSS, Gen 2’s were not developed to replace ballast systems. They were designed to allow users to surf easier with boats that were more equally weighted. In our case, we have located the plates and set factory defaults because that is what we found to work for most users. Again, as you become a more advanced user, then you can start experimenting with the plate locations and you can fine tune the waves even more.

So, the next step is to learn how the flow plates work. As I said before, any plate that pushes water has an opposite reaction on the boat. If a plate is deployed below the surface and pushes water down, then that creates actual lift on the boat. This is how the wakeplate and flow 2 plates work. Without getting too complicated, lets just say it creates lift and lift is actually the opposite force of displacement. When you surf left, the stbd actuator goes down moving water to a different location but also “rolls” the boat by lifting the stbd side. It is actually doing 2 things as it helps the “delayed convergence” of the water behind the boat creating the surf wave. Ok, so that is a lot of words, but what exactly does that look like? Sometime when you are on the water and NOT surfing, switch to manual mode and experiment with Flow plate location to see how that actually “looks” behind the boat. The best way to do that is with a slightly offset weighted boat. So manually fill the ballast in the boat to 100% on surf side, 80% on opposite side and at least 50% in the front. Have the passengers sit in the boat as evenly as possible. Now, without moving any passengers, turn cruise into manual mode and go between 10.8 to 11mph. When cruise is engaged, manually move the flow plates all the way to 0. You can move the plate on the controls screen with the up and down arrow. When flow plates are at 0, you will notice that the wave is not formed and unsurfable. Slowly add 5% plate at a time and watch how it changes the wave. You will probably notice that somewhere between 45-60% the wave will start to form. But don’t stop there. Keep adjusting all the way to 100%. As you continue to add plate, you will notice the wave “looks” like it is getting longer and possibly cleaner. But you will also notice that the wave will be getting smaller and eventually it will probably again become unsurfable as you get closer to 95-100%. The reason is because it will eventually create so much lift on the one side that it is really fighting the displacement that is trying to push the boat down. Do this on the port and stbd side and see how the prop rotation also affects how much plate is required on the port side relative to the stbd side. Now that you understand better how the flow plates actually work, then you can begin to understand when you might want to adjust them. My general rule of thumb is if I do NOT have a lot of displacement, then I can help the system gain a little more “PUSH” by actually running the flow plates a little higher than normal (Maybe in the 40-50 range). On the opposite side, if I DO have a lot of displacement, then I can actually run the plates a little lower (Maybe in the 75-85 range) to give the wave a little more length. If you like to have the majority of your passengers sit on the side that you are surfing, then you can also run less plate. This creates less roll by the plate and the offset weight creates the roll. If you have your passengers evenly weighted or even possibly a little to the wrong side, then you can slightly add more plate to clean up the wake without having AutoWake drain ballast to compensate. Again, as I said before, do NOT make these adjustments until you have first tried factory settings and experimented with flow plates and actually understand what you are adjusting. As with anything, all adjustments have tradeoffs. What might work for one application might make something else worse in a different application.

Ok, that is it for Advanced Users Part 2. Part 3 will be how and when to adjust wakeplate and also how and when to adjust pitch and roll for advanced users using high amounts of displacement.

[Mobius22]

This is awesome!

[TJG]

I can confirm some of the same issues on my 17 mojo. I have not noticed issues with the wrong plate deploying but I did see the weight being sent to the opposite bags yesterday. Initially the port wave was dialed once autowake was achieved with no rider. We stopped and turned the engine off to get a surfer in the water, started back up and got under way, it looked great but with in a few mins the wave started falling apart. I checked the percentages on the rear bags and the port bag had emptied while the starboard bag had filled. I turned auto flow off and manually got the bags back to where they should have been and the wave was rockin again.

Same issues for me as well. I've only used Autowake a handful of times. Each time it drained port side. 17 Mojo.

[goose]

For those keeping up with this issue on the glitch, I received new software today that has addressed the glitch, I tested it in the shop today and took it to the lake today and so far so good. I think we have fixed the glitch. We will continue to finish the rest of our standard testing, but we should have a fix that we can send out no later than the first of next week. Thanks again for helping us fix it. Maybe this glitch has been the issue for some of those not having the best results with AutoWake.

Stay tuned....

[moombahighrider]

Awesome news! Thanks Matt

[Prospersigman]

For those keeping up with this issue on the glitch, I received new software today that has addressed the glitch, I tested it in the shop today and took it to the lake today and so far so good. I think we have fixed the glitch. We will continue to finish the rest of our standard testing, but we should have a fix that we can send out no later than the first of next week. Thanks again for helping us fix it. Maybe this glitch has been the issue for some of those not having the best results with AutoWake.

Stay tuned....

Matt,

Will the software update be for Moomba autowake only?

[goose]

Matt,

Will the software update be for Moomba autowake only?

Not sure what you mean? The software I have tested is for Moomba. Looks like you have a Supra. Were you having a problem with it??

[rdlangston13]

Maybe this had happened to other people , but today while using auto wake , had everything set for port surfing got going auto wake achieved, then the wake started to look like crap , my wife was driving, we stop and look at the screen , and the suffer dude was still pointed for port surf , starboard plate was down , but the auto wake settings changed to starboard surf settings while driving and it had dumped 65% of the port ballast, had to flip the auto flow switch to middle and start over , I have noticed alot but I can catch it when I drive , some major software issues going on

We had this happen too. I think if you swap from port to starboard or vice verses you need to turn auto wake off and the back on for it to be set for the new surf side.


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[stevemarich]

We had this happen too. I think if you swap from port to starboard or vice verses you need to turn auto wake off and the back on for it to be set for the new surf side.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMakes sense except on that issue we never did change anything , was surfing port side for 10 minutes or so and all was good , picked up a down rider never turned boat off or changed settings , got rider up and after going for 6 min or so the wave was diminished , the auto wake settings changed to the starboard settings with the switch still in surf port while driving, used it all day to today without it happening though

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[TJG]

Makes sense except on that issue we never did change anything , was surfing port side for 10 minutes or so and all was good , picked up a down rider never turned boat off or changed settings , got rider up and after going for 6 min or so the wave was diminished , the auto wake settings changed to the starboard settings with the switch still in surf port while driving, used it all day to today without it happening though

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This is my experience as well!

[goose]

Ok, for the glitch update, I ran the new 2018 software all weekend and I think the glitch is gone. As with any software, fixing one glitch might have created another "bug" somewhere else, but it seems to be solid to me. We still don't have the 2017 software done as we wanted to validate the 2018 first, but we should have that shortly. We are thinking we might try and put this software somewhere on our website or somewhere in a cloud based location so that owners can just download their latest software when ever they would like. Reflashing the software is very straight forward. You download the file, put it on a USB stick, put the USB stick in the USB port under the dash, and hold down the middle button while turning the key on. That puts it into bootloader mode and looks for the correct file type on the USB. If it is on there, then you select it and it reflashes the software. It is very important to note that when you reflash software, it resets your ballast timers. So you will have to go back and change those. It is recommended that you see where timers are before reflashing so that you know exactly where to set them to. It also resets flows plates and AutoWake settings back to default, but I recommend leaving them at default for most users anyways.

Again, for those not up to speed, the glitch was created because of the way we send the input signal to the PDM. To surf on port side, the switch actually sends a 12V positive signal to the PDM. To surf on stbd side, the switch actually sends a 12V negative signal to the PDM. What happened was if you turned key off with the switch in the surf port setting, sometimes based on exactly what turned off and when, the system would lose the ignition wire which generated the 12V positive signal. However, the now "neutral" signal would sometimes see ground and send an accidental 12V ground command to the PDM. That is why it changed plate locations and roll settings. Sometimes, it would do that, then on key on, it would see the now 12V positive signal and correct itself. But other times it wouldn't. Anyways, we were able to add delays that hopefully prevent that from happening and additional delays that go back and recheck every key cycle. So, even if it does send the wrong signal, then it does correct it and based on my testing, I couldn't get it to "glitch".

It is important to note that as with any electrical system, many factors can also contribute to "glitches" like this. Boats used in the water are NOT the optimum setup for proper ground planes. I am a mechanical engineer, so I am way outside my comfort zone talking electrical stuff, but lets just say that all grounds are NOT equal in a boat. In addition, loose connections at the battery, engine, bus bars, and in many areas can cause ground loops and noise. An electrical engineer reading this would probably laugh at my ignorance, but it is possible that this glitch could be more prevalent in some boats more than others. Regardless, hopefully we have found the fix and again hopefully this will improve performance for those such as TJC that might be seeing this glitch...

[stevemarich]

Thanks Matt , side question , on the ballast timers is there a way to get them above 15 min , that is the highest my crazy will go , have heard of Mojo's going higher but 15 min is max I can set mine to. Thanks

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[moombahighrider]

Thanks Matt , side question , on the ballast timers is there a way to get them above 15 min , that is the highest my crazy will go , have heard of Mojo's going higher but 15 min is max I can set mine to. Thanks

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15 is the max my 17 mojo will go. Thinking about going the g6 route....

[stevemarich]

15 is the max my 17 mojo will go. Thinking about going the g6 route....

Was debating on that as well, already have the relay box planed out for adding pumps, but id rather spend the money on the bigger bags first. and ballast fill is the kid swim and our sit an relax time,so having high fill times doesn't bother me , at least for now :cool: and Craz not crazy, on previous post

[Stazi]

You can flick the pump switch off and on again when it hits 100% to add another minute.


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[goose]

You can flick the pump switch off and on again when it hits 100% to add another minute.


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I went and looked and you are correct, the highest fill and drain time is 15 minutes. Stazi is correct that you can always overfill also. However, if you need to fill for more than 15 minutes, I am thinking you might want to check your impellor, or try filling with the engine on. The Jabsco pumps are impellor pumps so the speed of the pump has a lot to do with condition of impellor. The other main factor with speed is the voltage that the pump sees. When the engine is on and alternator is charging the system, the voltage of the battery should be between 12.5 and 13.5. As with any DC motor, the system will operate much faster at 13 volts, than it would at 10.5 or 11 volts. In a perfect state, those pumps should be able to pump somewhere between 90-100lbs per minute. If it is taking you over 15 minutes to fill 1100lbs, then you are only filling about 70-75lbs per minute. You might check impellor and voltage first and see if that doesn't improve the system.

As to why the timers are limited at 15 minutes, honestly I don't know. I guess we never thought we would need to fill longer than that so in our testing we didn't see that to be an issue. I guess we could go back and change software, but we are trying to make systems faster and with the 6 pumps system, you definitely don't need anywhere near 15 minutes.

Hope that helps.

[Stazi]

I need more than 15 minutes to fill the center tank and now bag combo from the factory. My boat only has 81hrs on it so I doubt the impellers are already shot, but it could be that we often turn off the boat when we reach our start point and are filling bags so that we aren't logging hours, sitting and idling.


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[stevemarich]

Faster is always better Matt, was going to integrate more bags to go under the seats, currently it is not an issue ,with 1140 rears it takes 13:40 to fill, which is about right, but if I wanted extend under the seat with bigger bags, I would need more time on timers, or faster pumps, agreed with the 6 pump wouldn't need it , but I don't have the 6 pumps system, was just weighing options, if I could get more time on timers would just do the bag upgrade until could afford more pumps, if its not an option, then will add the pumps first and do bags later. As well as Stazi , my front is set at 15min has been close to that since new, only have 70 hours on boat, and 30 plus didn't even use ballast. I did notice the bump the switch for more time, used that for the front last weekend,

[goose]

Faster is always better Matt, was going to integrate more bags to go under the seats, currently it is not an issue ,with 1140 rears it takes 13:40 to fill, which is about right, but if I wanted extend under the seat with bigger bags, I would need more time on timers, or faster pumps, agreed with the 6 pump wouldn't need it , but I don't have the 6 pumps system, was just weighing options, if I could get more time on timers would just do the bag upgrade until could afford more pumps, if its not an option, then will add the pumps first and do bags later. As well as Stazi , my front is set at 15min has been close to that since new, only have 70 hours on boat, and 30 plus didn't even use ballast. I did notice the bump the switch for more time, used that for the front last weekend,

I understand. That all makes sense. The factory default time for the front in 2017 with tank and bag is 11 min 30 sec. But it sounds like that is not working for you or Stazi. I am curious, do either of you have dual batteries in your boat and if so, where do you run your switch? Also, do you recharge your batteries often? I personally always run my switch in the "both" position and we keep the R&D boats batteries charged fairly often. Even if filling with engine off (which you can't do in 2018 ), it gives me a little extra battery bank to hold a slightly higher voltage. The front Craz has a 700lb tank and the bag is about 500lbs. So, if completely full it is about 1200lbs. 11min and 30sec was probably not enough time, but again if you are filling for 15min and not filling 1200lbs, then you are filling in the 80lb per minute or less range. I am just curious if maybe you are just filling at a lower voltage and that is why it is taking longer...

Regardless, I will ask about adding more time on the ballast timers. Like I said, we are still working on the 2017 field fix so we can probably get the extra long timers added to that. Unfortunately we will probably still want to put a cap of some type on it. You have got to see our side of the liability part and if someone flipped the switch to fill, but the bag wasn't connected, we couldn't have an unlimited timer on there. That would basically sink the boat. Especially considering that the ballast fills MUCH faster than the bilge pump can keep up. ESPECIALLY if someone did upgrade to 6 pumps and still had higher timers. Currently if you had 6 pumps filling approximately 90lbs per minute and you didn't have bags, in 15 minutes you would have pumped in over 8000lbs of water in the boat. I think anyone could see where that could be an issue....

I will see what I can do...

[stevemarich]

Definitely makes sense , I fill with engine off , key on and battery switch on 1 most of the time, but even when idling its close to the same amount of time, just figured for the front as far as the water has to travel would be a little slower anyway, its the only one that seems a little slow and always has been, had timers set at 14 for the front when new , but notice not all of the time did the bow bag get full, at 15 most of the time it does , this weekend was the first it didn't and was filling while putting back to the dock, will probably just go with adding the pumps if a ballast upgrade happens. Was just a curious thought, and thought I heard of others 17 and some 16s having higher fill times. Thanks for all your input Matt

[TJG]

I am curious, do either of you have dual batteries in your boat and if so, where do you run your switch? Also, do you recharge your batteries often? I personally always run my switch in the "both" position and we keep the R&D boats batteries charged fairly often.


This is interesting, as my dealer specifically advised never to run on both, always choose 1 or 2.

Edit: My bags seem to fill fine at the preset times. I always fill with boat on, idling forward.

[stevemarich]

And I was under the impression Jacobs ballast puppy pump rate is 88 lbs per minute , per its specification , the ballast king is 120 lbs , at 88lbs a minute you would need a min of 13.6 for 1200 lbs, 12.9 for 1140, but that's just going off the pumps specification and that is about the range we are at , except for the front , so didn't really think we had a problem ,just want to integrate another 300 lbs in for the rear with would put fill times at 16.3

[goose]

This is interesting, as my dealer specifically advised never to run on both, always choose 1 or 2.

Edit: My bags seem to fill fine at the preset times. I always fill with boat on, idling forward.

Well, the battery switch and recommended switch location has been a point of controversy over the years and internally we probably all don't see it the same way. The most conservative approach is to recommend the consumer leave the switch in the 1 or 2 position. IF you do that, and IF you charge your batteries often, then IF you were to be sitting on the lake all day listening to the stereo and the battery went dead, then you could theoretically switch it to the other battery, start your engine and go merrily on your way.

However, what I have found is most consumers do NOT charge their batteries often. And many consumers leave the switch in 1 position forever, never turning it off. If you leave the switch in the 1 position, then you would never be charging the 2nd battery as the alternator is completely separated from the 2nd battery. If you left it that all way all season without charging it, it is likely that if you ever did need the 2nd battery, it might be dead. In addition to that, running the engine and all accessories off 1 battery only will draw that battery down very quickly. Then discharging and charging that one battery often will then make that battery fail prematurely. Worst case is you end up having 1 battery that dies premature or doesn't hold a change very long, only to find out the other battery is also dead from not being charged.

That is why I personally always run my battery switch in both and charge often. One of the highest premature failures of deep cycle batteries is not charging them often enough or leaving them in a lower voltage situation for long times. In addition to that as I said before, if you are in the both position, then you have a true dual battery bank and it will not draw down your voltage near as quick when running ballast or stereo. In addition to that, the alternator will always be charging BOTH batteries when switch is in both. Granted, it can charge one battery at a time faster than 2, but I currently trailer my boat and I almost always end up having a decent run back to the dock at the end of the day when I am finished. Running the boat at a higher RPM increases the alternator output and seems to do a decent job of recharging the batteries. And like I said, we try and plug up the R&D boats very regularly which again tops off the charge to the batteries.

As a side note, I personally think some of the low voltage codes seen in some of the newer boats are also because most people are running the battery switch in 1 position and not charging the batteries enough. If you were to fill the ballast for 15 minutes, while listening to the stereo with key off, I could definitely see the one battery getting into the 11 volts or less range. That is when we start seeing "low voltage" and this amplifies the possibility of seeing the O2 sensor codes when you start back up. That is another reason we changed the 2018 ballast to only filling when the engine is running. While some people may not like it, with the 6 pumps running, it can drain the battery fairly quickly, especially with the battery in 1 position and key off. IF you do decide to run with the battery switch in "both" but want to sit and listen to the stereo for long times, then you can still move the switch to 1 battery only while you are sitting there. If you did that, then you would probably have a good backup battery if you run the 1 battery dead. Just remember to switch it back to both after you get started and then recharge the battery when you get home.

Hope that makes sense. Sorry about change in topic, but thought it might be helpful as some of you might want to try running the battery in the "both" switch and I hope that everyone will try and charge the batteries more often. Trust me, it will help!

[goose]

And I was under the impression Jacobs ballast puppy pump rate is 88 lbs per minute , per its specification , the ballast king is 120 lbs , at 88lbs a minute you would need a min of 13.6 for 1200 lbs, 12.9 for 1140, but that's just going off the pumps specification and that is about the range we are at , except for the front , so didn't really think we had a problem ,just want to integrate another 300 lbs in for the rear with would put fill times at 16.3

Steve, you are right. The truth is specifications are not all the same. You can look some places and it says 9 gal/min, some say 88lbs/min but they usually aren't really clear at what voltage they are measuring that at. Some say 12 volts, but some companies take 12.0 as 12 volts and some say 12.5 or 12.8 as 12 volts. It really does make a huge difference at what true voltage the pump is running at. And it is not linear. Try filling the pumps sometime with the key off, then turn key on and rev the engine. You will hear a huge difference in the sound of the pump. At 13 volts and higher, that pump really cranks some water. In addition, as some have said, there is WAY more hose and pressure in the front and filling a bag by venting the tank does take longer. So, you are correct, it probably should take about 13.5 minutes to fill the 1200lbs most of the time. You probably don't have a problem with the impellors if you are taking slightly longer filling it with key off.

And I think we can probably add another minute and a half or 2 minutes to the timers. Just don't tell my boss.... hahaha

[stevemarich]

Steve, you are right. The truth is specifications are not all the same. You can look some places and it says 9 gal/min, some say 88lbs/min but they usually aren't really clear at what voltage they are measuring that at. Some say 12 volts, but some companies take 12.0 as 12 volts and some say 12.5 or 12.8 as 12 volts. It really does make a huge difference at what true voltage the pump is running at. And it is not linear. Try filling the pumps sometime with the key off, then turn key on and rev the engine. You will hear a huge difference in the sound of the pump. At 13 volts and higher, that pump really cranks some water. In addition, as some have said, there is WAY more hose and pressure in the front and filling a bag by venting the tank does take longer. So, you are correct, it probably should take about 13.5 minutes to fill the 1200lbs most of the time. You probably don't have a problem with the impellors if you are taking slightly longer filling it with key off.

And I think we can probably add another minute and a half or 2 minutes to the timers. Just don't tell my boss.... hahaha

Right on , thanks Matt , not trying to hijack the thread of or create more work load for you, my last boat I used the battery switch same as you posted, didn't have a dual bank charger so needed the boat to keep them both charged anyway, but when seeing in the manual that it said not to run in both for this boat, just stared using 1 main and 2 as a back up , I trailer every outing and plug in the handy factory dual bank charger when boat isn't in use to keep them topped off, but it is good to know that we could run the switch in the both position. Thanks again for your input.

[TJG]

Well, the battery switch . . . .

Got it! For my situation, I think I'll switch to both and see how it goes. The boat stays on a lift, and the lake is less than 200 acres, so if something were to happen, it wouldn't take long till we float to shore or yell to someone to tow us in! I do like the idea of charging both batteries via the alternator. I currently switch back and forth, turning it to OFF after every outing.

[rdlangston13]

So my 17 Mojo I have had the port surf issue happen once last week at Table Rock. We all surf starboard so that is probably why we have never seen it until now. I think we want to upgrade to the autowake 2.0 so we will probably not worry about reflashing our current software.

As far as ballast timers go, we have the tank and bow bag and we need every bit of 15 minutes to fill it. The 900s in the rear I think we had to set at about 12-13 minutes or so and we usually always fill with the engine idling. We also plug into a shore charger every time the boat is put away and we run the stock starting battery on switch position 1 and 2 6V golf cart batteries wired in series on switch position two. Interesting thing we just discovered about our batteries is that if you run on bank 1, shut down, swap to bank 2, the initial start up takes 5-6 seconds to fire the boat up. Cranking speed is normal, it just doesn't fire. It is also true for the opposite, if we run on bank 2 and shut down the swap to bank 1 it does the same thing. It's only on the initial start when swapping battery banks. All starts after that on the same bank are normal until you swap to the other bank again. Has me totally confused.


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[kennc]

Nevermind. I typed and posted before reading the rest of the thread.

Question answered.

Sorry.



This is interesting, as my dealer specifically advised never to run on both, always choose 1 or 2.

Edit: My bags seem to fill fine at the preset times. I always fill with boat on, idling forward.I am curious about this also (battery switch setting). My salesman recommended both (setting 1 and 2). I read the manual, re-read the manual and then read it a third time to confirm it specifically says use setting 1 only and always.

It talks about a redundancy configuration so you don't get stranded.

Clarification would be great for this non-engineer.

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[goose]

So my 17 Mojo I have had the port surf issue happen once last week at Table Rock. We all surf starboard so that is probably why we have never seen it until now. I think we want to upgrade to the autowake 2.0 so we will probably not worry about reflashing our current software.

As far as ballast timers go, we have the tank and bow bag and we need every bit of 15 minutes to fill it. The 900s in the rear I think we had to set at about 12-13 minutes or so and we usually always fill with the engine idling. We also plug into a shore charger every time the boat is put away and we run the stock starting battery on switch position 1 and 2 6V golf cart batteries wired in series on switch position two. Interesting thing we just discovered about our batteries is that if you run on bank 1, shut down, swap to bank 2, the initial start up takes 5-6 seconds to fire the boat up. Cranking speed is normal, it just doesn't fire. It is also true for the opposite, if we run on bank 2 and shut down the swap to bank 1 it does the same thing. It's only on the initial start when swapping battery banks. All starts after that on the same bank are normal until you swap to the other bank again. Has me totally confused.


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On this issue, I really don't have a clue. Like I said, I am not an electrical engineer, so I am not sure what is going on and I have personally never used 2 6V batteries like this so that is a little different. What I do know is we don't recommend that you ever turn the battery switch off when the key is on. If that is what you are doing, then that could be the problem. Also, every time you turn battery switch to off, it puts the screen basically in sleep mode and requires the normal full boot up time. Not sure if that is what you are talking about either. If you are having an issue with the boat cranking but not firing, then I am thinking maybe that is a completely different issue like the fuel pump or something else. Have you tried to turn key on, wait a few seconds and then crank? I will keep digging and see if I have heard of anything similar to this with our customer service people. Sorry about that. If it is only happening on initial start then that is definitely interesting and I would love to figure out what is going on. Thanks for feedback.

[goose]

So, I did ask around a little and the only thing I can come up with is if you are seeing an initial lag where the engine is cranking but not firing after the boat has been sitting for a while is possibly the fuel pump regulator. To test this theory, try doing what I said before and cycle the key to on but don't crank for 4 seconds. Do that twice and then try and fire the boat. When you do that, you are manually priming the fuel pump. If it fires up immediately, then it is probably your fuel pump regulator. Once the system starts and is primed, then you probably will not have an issue the rest of the day unless you stop for another long period of time. As to how to change your fuel pump regulator, that is out of my knowledge database. I think you have to change the whole fuel pump which is located on the fuel tank (pump in tank system). I would recommend you have your dealer deal with that.... Good luck.

[rdlangston13]

So, I did ask around a little and the only thing I can come up with is if you are seeing an initial lag where the engine is cranking but not firing after the boat has been sitting for a while is possibly the fuel pump regulator. To test this theory, try doing what I said before and cycle the key to on but don't crank for 4 seconds. Do that twice and then try and fire the boat. When you do that, you are manually priming the fuel pump. If it fires up immediately, then it is probably your fuel pump regulator. Once the system starts and is primed, then you probably will not have an issue the rest of the day unless you stop for another long period of time. As to how to change your fuel pump regulator, that is out of my knowledge database. I think you have to change the whole fuel pump which is located on the fuel tank (pump in tank system). I would recommend you have your dealer deal with that.... Good luck.

I have not ever turned the battery switch to off while the key or motor are on.

To better clarify my situation, if I spend 1 day running the boat on battery one, shut it off for the night and turn the battery switch to off, come out the next morning and turn the switch back to battery one it will fire right up no problem,

If i spend the day running on battery one, shut the boat off for the night, turn the battery switch off, come out the next morning and flip the switch to battery two then it will crank for 5-6 seconds before firing up. Cranking speed is totally normal, no slow crank issues. This scenario is also true for the inverse. If I run for a day on battery 2, shut it off and turn the battery switch to off overnight and flip it to one in the morning the same issues arises, 5-6 seconds of cranking before firing.

Its not a huge problem but my gets embarrassed by it and im not sure if there is an underlying issue that would get worse and lead to a no start issue.

[Stazi]

Why aren't people running their boats on both banks. I don't understand this obsession with running on only one bank, doing this isolates the other bank from charging. If your batteries are setup up correctly you should have the stereo etc on one bank, and then the main power for the boat essentials on the other.
This therefore does not preclude you from running both batteries on while driving, and they should be isolated so that even if you drain your stereo bank battery dead, you should not affect the starting/main battery.

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[stevemarich]

I believe most of us haven't been just because it said not to in the manual, it would cause alternator damage, the switch isn't an isolator , running it the both position would drain both batteries even if all of your stereo equipment was on one battery and the starting was on the other.

[rdlangston13]

My batteries are always on a shore charger so there's not much reason to charge it while running. I keep it on bank 2 usually all the time and reserve bank 1 as a back up


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[stevemarich]

to clarify a little , easier to do than to explain , but how I use the two banks at the moment , the added stereo equipment is connected at the battery, I chose battery 1, when the switch is placed in position 1 , now everything runs off of battery 1 , stereo and boat, and only battery 1 is charging, battery 2 is not being charged, but since nothing is connected to it at the terminals and switch is in position 1 , battery 2 is not being used for anything, it is there for a back up only, , if you put the switch into the 2 position, now battery 2 charges and everything in the boat will run off battery 2, but since amps are on battery 1 it will drain battery 1 and not charge, if I put the switch in the both position, both batteries will charge, but the switch merely connects the two banks, so even if i were to sit and only listen to music , the stereo would draw off of both banks, you will get more time out of it, but it would still drain both batteries. Now that it has been some what proven that you can run in the both position, if you were to add a 100 amp isolator into the system , you very easily could set it up so both batteries charged but your amps and stereo would still only draw off of one battery

[IndyMobius]

Was reading this thread and felt like deja vu...another, simultaneous thread on this topic also happening here: https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?30117-Dual-Battery-Switch-Usage-After-Each-Outing/page3

[goose]

Was reading this thread and felt like deja vu...another, simultaneous thread on this topic also happening here: https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?30117-Dual-Battery-Switch-Usage-After-Each-Outing/page3

Very interesting... I read that thread and some good stuff on there. thanks for the link.

[RC_Hinojosa]

Very interesting... I read that thread and some good stuff on there. thanks for the link.

Goose - not to completely hijack this AutoWake thread (which is awesome BTW) but I think maybe now you can see why there is some confusion on the battery setting. If I'm following along correctly, you have said you personally use the battery "1 + 2" setting all the time on the R&D boats and that is what you recommend. That being said, it contradicts what we are told in the Owner's Manual (quoted in the other thread).

Is the Owner's Manual being overly cautious in advising that the "1+2" setting only be used in emergency situations? What about the ground differentiation mentioned in respect to sensitive electronics onboard?

TIA for any clarification!

[rdlangston13]

I think the real question is how much will it cost to upgrade to autowake 2.0?


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[moombahighrider]

I think the real question is how much will it cost to upgrade to autowake 2.0?


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I have asked my dealer this question and he said he will get me some numbers. Plan to do it when I next make the 6 hour drive to my dealer.

[goose]

Goose - not to completely hijack this AutoWake thread (which is awesome BTW) but I think maybe now you can see why there is some confusion on the battery setting. If I'm following along correctly, you have said you personally use the battery "1 + 2" setting all the time on the R&D boats and that is what you recommend. That being said, it contradicts what we are told in the Owner's Manual (quoted in the other thread).

Is the Owner's Manual being overly cautious in advising that the "1+2" setting only be used in emergency situations? What about the ground differentiation mentioned in respect to sensitive electronics onboard?

TIA for any clarification!

That is a good question and I will try to answer it as best as I can....

The guy that wrote that sits in the office next to mine. His job is customer service. As many of you know, they deal with problems all day because most of you happy customers never call him to tell him how much you love your boat. Because of that, they sometimes come across a little on the conservative side and especially conservative when we have prior issues with items. As the boats have gotten more electronically advanced, we have had issues with sensitive electronics. Some of that is our fault, some has been vendor issues, but truth is we have also had some issues that could have been avoided IF people would have used a little more common sense to start with. Again, that is when we really get overly conservative on the owners manual side. It reminds me of the warning on the coffee cup that says the liquid inside is hot. Granted, that was probably because of a stupid lawsuit, but I think you get my point.

Anyways, IF you use 2 different style batteries that have different voltages, then you could absolutely get ground differentiation. And having ground differentiation can cause ground loops and other issues. So, part of that statement is true. However, the way it currently reads, it sounds like it will definitely happen all the time and that part is not true. As I and others have said, we highly recommend you use 2 of the exact same style batteries that are sized appropriately and keep them properly charged. If you do that, then you should not have ground differentiation and in fact running them on the both switch location would probably help keep them from having ground differentiation to start with.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion. We are actually planning to change how we word that for the 2018 owners manuals.

[Mondo Ken]

Hi Matt,

I know you have been troubleshooting within your explanation of AutoWake, but when do you think we can expect “advanced user part 3”?

This has been amazing information as I was ready to give up on AutoWake until this tread appeared.

[goose]

Hi Matt,

I know you have been troubleshooting within your explanation of AutoWake, but when do you think we can expect “advanced user part 3”?

This has been amazing information as I was ready to give up on AutoWake until this tread appeared.

Thanks Ken. I am glad this thread has helped and I will try and see if I can part 3 done very soon. I started writing these tips just off the top of my head, but after a while I started to forget what all I had said so I copied and pasted them into one large document and now I am trying to write them in order so that one day we can have one long document with all the tips so that anyone could read from start to finish and it make more logical sense. I will try and have that part 3 done no later than Monday. (But probably today. hahaha)

Glad this info has helped. AutoWake really is an awesome technology and while it may still not be perfect, I really think the next few years are going to be amazing as we continue to develop even better uses for it. Stay tuned....

[goose]

Well, not going to get part 3 done today. I have about half of it written, but as always it is getting wordy and I am not going to finish today. Stay tuned, I will try to post it Monday. Hope everyone has a great weekend!

[moombahighrider]

Regardless, I will ask about adding more time on the ballast timers. Like I said, we are still working on the 2017 field fix so we can probably get the extra long timers added to that. Unfortunately we will probably still want to put a cap of some type on it. You have got to see our side of the liability part and if someone flipped the switch to fill, but the bag wasn't connected, we couldn't have an unlimited timer on there. That would basically sink the boat. Especially considering that the ballast fills MUCH faster than the bilge pump can keep up. ESPECIALLY if someone did upgrade to 6 pumps and still had higher timers. Currently if you had 6 pumps filling approximately 90lbs per minute and you didn't have bags, in 15 minutes you would have pumped in over 8000lbs of water in the boat. I think anyone could see where that could be an issue....

I will see what I can do...

Goose, how is the update looking? I'm heading to Powell on Thursday morning and would love to have the update loaded on Wednesday evening before I leave for this weekend.....

[goose]

Goose, how is the update looking? I'm heading to Powell on Thursday morning and would love to have the update loaded on Wednesday evening before I leave for this weekend.....

Moombahighrider, Check your inbox... Still working on final testing...

[chezdude]

Goose, any news on the firmware fix, the next installment of the guide or the odds of getting the 2018 firmware update for a 2017 boat?

I really appreciate the guide. This is the kind of stuff that should be in the owners manual and as a first time wakeboard boat owner it has helped me understand how the boat and all its components work together. It's not my first boat (traded in a 1984 SeaRay that had been in the family since 1987), but a V drive and the ballast/plate systems are all new to me.

[goose]

Goose, any news on the firmware fix, the next installment of the guide or the odds of getting the 2018 firmware update for a 2017 boat?

I really appreciate the guide. This is the kind of stuff that should be in the owners manual and as a first time wakeboard boat owner it has helped me understand how the boat and all its components work together. It's not my first boat (traded in a 1984 SeaRay that had been in the family since 1987), but a V drive and the ballast/plate systems are all new to me.

Well, I have all good news. I have written 2 more installments that cover wakeplates and also how and when to adjust pitch and roll. I will be posting those shortly. Also, all our testing has been very promising and we have a firmware fix for any 2017 or 2018 Moomba models. In fact, it is all the same software. And that software includes all the new predictive logic and amplitude display that we included for 2018. If you have a 2017 model, then you will not have a draft sensor, so if the system doesn't see a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display is more like a graphic version of ballast gauges. If you have a 2018 model and it does have a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display works as designed for 2018. We are still experimenting with the idea of making draft sensors available for 2017. It is not as easy as plug and play because we had to change pickup locations to make the draft sensor work, so just know that right now it is not available, but at some point, it might be. If you want the new software, contact your dealer. They can contact our customer service department and we can email them a link to the software. In fact, the dealer should be able to email you the software also and you could probably reflash the software yourself. Another idea is if you use your dealer to winterize or service your boat, then that would also be a good time to get the software installed. Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know that the glitch has been corrected and for those customers with 2017 models, you will also be getting a free upgrade to the improved logic. Stay tuned for more tips posted shortly....

[goose]

Random AutoWake Tip of the Day – Advanced Users (part 3 – WakePlate)

Ok, so now we understand what displacement is and how important it is. We also understand what pitch and roll is and how it shapes the wake. We understand how the inclinometer works and how important it is that it is calibrated properly. We understand how the flow plates work and when we might want to adjust them. But the last 2 adjustments we need to understand are the wakeplate and when exactly do we adjust pitch and roll. This tip is going to be specifically on the wakeplate.

One factor in wave and wake shapes is the “feel” of the wave or wake. We have discussed how sometimes a wave can be tall, or long, or have a lot of push, but one characteristic that actually has a lot to do with the push is the firmness or hardness of the wave. If a wave looks tall but feels “soft”, then typically it doesn’t have a great push. To create a more “firm” wave, think of it like compression. You basically want to displace a lot of water, but put a lot of pressure on it so that when it creates the wave, it has compressed energy. As weird as it may sound, the best way to do that is to actually fight that displacement with lift. That is where pitch adjustments and wakeplate adjustments can start to come in.

The wakeplate works under the same logic as the flow plates. When the wakeplate is down, water is forced down, pushing the boat up. When the wakeplate is up, water is NOT necessarily forced up, but with the plate in the up position, the rear of the boat can sit as deep as possible. The pitch of the boat can be adjusted several degrees by moving the plate from 100% down to 0% down (or all the way up). The factory default when cruise is on is 25% down. I guess in another tip I can talk about smartplate, but the short version of that is when the boat comes to a stop the plate goes to 100% down to help accelerate. Once the boat reaches a “cross-over” point, then the plate goes to 25%. We chose 25% because for the average user running factory ballast or less, a lower wakeplate number allows the back of the boat to sit as deep as possible allowing the boat to displace a good wave. In fact, for many people, you might even want to run the wakeplate at 0%. However, for some people running a LOT of extra ballast, they want to run extra weight in the rear and then “compress” that water with a slightly lower wakeplate of maybe 30-40%. But keep in mind that all of this works together. If you run too much weight in the back and then run the wakeplate down to 50-60%, then it will greatly reduce pitch. If you don’t change your AutoWake pitch values, then the system might actually drain water out of the front bag because the wakeplate would be fighting the effects of not adding weight in the front to offset the extra weight in the back. Draining water always reduces displacement and as we said in an earlier tip, displacement is the most critical component, so we want to minimize draining as much as possible. In this case, most users would not want to use the wakeplate to lower pitch, but instead use front ballast to affect pitch. That is why most users that add more weight in the rear, ALSO add weight in the front. That is basically doing the same thing of compressing the water. The extra weight in the rear pulls the back down. The extra weight in the front, pulls the rear up basically compressing all the displaced water.

One additional point that should be mentioned about the wakeplate is if you adjust the wakeplate too far down, it can drastically affect the wave. Once the plate moves past about 50% deflection, then it does more than just create lift. It actually starts to interfere with the roostertail coming from the prop. This deflection of the roostertail can drastically affect the wave shape and creation. To see how that works, fill your ballast to factory defaults, allow pitch and roll to adjust correctly, then once the wave has formed, move the wakeplate to 100% down. It is very likely that this will make the wave unsurfable.

The learning point here again is to understand what the wakeplate is doing, and experiment with it to see how you can maximize wave shape and length once you become an advanced user. As I said before, most users will typically want to maximize displacement by running the wakeplate between 0-25 and allow the boat to sit as deep as possible. However, if you are running really high amounts of displacement, then you might find that fine tuning the plate down a little could give you a more firm wave or possibly even a slightly longer wave.

[goose]

Random AutoWake Tip of the Day – Advanced Users (part 4 – When to adjust Pitch and Roll)

The last adjustment you need to understand is when to adjust pitch and roll. Unfortunately many people that don’t understand AutoWake immediately adjust pitch and roll. In the classic example of if 1 is good, 2 must be better, many people have adjusted pitch and or roll to extreme amounts before learning how the system works or even trying the factory defaults. Again, the thought process is if -3 roll is good, then -6 roll has to be better. Or if 9 pitch is good, then 11 pitch has to make the wave taller. Hopefully by now everyone understands that these are NOT good ideas. As we have discussed many times, only wave shape is dictated by pitch and roll. Wave size or push is always dictated by displacement. So, the answer to the original question is you should only adjust pitch and roll if you truly want to maximize ballast IF you are running more displacement than factory ballast. So the next question is how or when would you do that?

Let’s say you want to experiment with more displacement than factory ballast. You have already experimented with factory defaults, experimented with flow plates and understand how they work, experimented with the wakeplate and understand how that works. You have tried different boards, different speeds, and now you want to try and maximize what the boat can do. So, you get a couple extra friends, a couple extra fat sacks and head to the lake. My first recommendation would be to try and add any additional weight as centrally located as possible. Granted, you might surf on the port side all the time and the logical thought would be to add all additional weight on the port side, but we have learned better than that and we understand that overall displacement is more important than just displacing water on one side of the boat. So, if you have a couple extra fat sacks, fill them in the middle of the cockpit. Depending on the size and shape, you might want to fill one in the middle and the other closer to the walkthrough area at the dash. Remember, if you add all the additional weight in the back, then you will need something in the front, or you will be drastically changing the pitch. Next thing is fill all factory ballast to 100%. Once this is all done, then check the “Amplitude” display on the dash if you are in a 2018 model. If you have maxed the “Amplitude” display, then first make sure you have not exceeded the capacity of the boat. Obviously, that would be a big safety issue. Once you have made sure you have NOT exceeded the capacity of the boat, then try and run the boat with factory flow settings, wakeplate settings, and keep it in manual mode. Once you get the surf speed, check the shape of the wave. If the wave is not clean, then you could adjust passengers to the side you are surfing on. If the wave is very smooth with not a good defined “zone”, then try moving passengers to the non surf side. If the wave is rather short, then try moving passengers to the bow of the boat. If the wave seems extra long, then try moving passengers to the rear of the boat. By experimenting with different passenger locations in manual mode, then you can see what the maximum potential is of the wave with maximum displacement. Ok, you might be confused at this point because what does that have to do with AutoWake, but stay tuned…

The next thing you should do is hit the left button and engage AutoWake. As soon as it comes on, note the actual pitch and roll of the boat. With your extra ballast and optimized seating locations, you can now see what your actual pitch and roll are. If you had a good wave, then I would imagine that pitch and roll would likely be close to factory defaults. You might find that the pitch or roll is actually a degree or more off. As we have said many times, displacement trumps everything. With enough displacement, you can actually get good results even if the pitch is at 8 degrees or 11 degress. With enough displacement, you can actually get good results on port side even if the roll is at -2 degress or -4 degrees. So, for that day, you can now see where you are with pitch and roll. If you want to try and maintain that for that day, then you can now adjust pitch and roll to the new settings and as long as you have the extra ballast, then you should have a consistent wave throughout the day as you change riders with minimum ballast draining. Keep in mind that as passengers move, it will obviously have to drain some ballast to keep the pitch and roll, but this would be one example of when you might want to adjust pitch and roll from factory settings. One very important thing to remember is just because those pitch and roll values work that day, does NOT mean the same settings will be optimal when you reduce displacement. In fact, it will very likely NOT work as good and let me try and explain that.......

[goose]

Let’s say you did the “experimenting” with maximum ballast on a Saturday. On that day, you had an extra large crew of 10 passengers and you even had an extra fat sack in the cockpit area. When you moved all the weight around and filled all the factory ballast, you actually found on that day that the optimal pitch was at 10.5 degrees. In fact, it could never get less than that because with all the passengers in the rear of the boat, the front ballast was always at 100% just trying to maintain 10.5 degrees. With all that displacement, you still had a very surfable wave and in fact you really loved it because it had a great amount of push. In fact, several of the passengers learned to surf for the first time without the rope and now you are convinced that 10.5 pitch is the “Magic” number. The roll was actually close to -3 so you just left the roll alone. You had such a great experience that you wanted to do the same thing on Sunday. However, on Sunday, you only have 3 passengers and the person with the extra fat sack was not one of them. So on this day, you only have factory ballast and 3 passengers. The truth is you just will NOT get the same results on Sunday as you had on Saturday. When you get to the lake, the “Amplitude” display will explain that. On Saturday, the “Amplitude” display was maxed out. On Sunday, the “Amplitude” display will be at about 50%. This is when you really need to change pitch and roll BACK to factory default. If you don’t, this is what will happen. When you turn AutoWake on, the roll will get achieved first, then it will try and fill ballast to reach the “AMP” setting of 100% of ballast in the rear. It will get there. Let’s say you have all passengers sitting perfect and both rear ballast get to 100%. So, the roll is achieved and rear ballast is achieved. However, the front ballast will never fill all the way up, because if you left the pitch at 10.5 degrees, then it will actually need to add more weight in the rear to get to the extra high pitch and the only thing the system can do is NOT fill the front or drain the front to try and get to 10.5 degrees. So, in this case, it is likely that you will end up with 30%, or maybe less ballast in the front. As I have described before, this is a huge mistake, because now you are actually losing about 700lbs displacement to try and get to a “MAGIC” number of 10.5 pitch. If you change the pitch back to default of 9, then the front would continue to fill and in fact, you might get to 100% ballast in the front. In this case, the less pitch actually makes the wave bigger because it increases displacement. Remember the no replacement for displacement??

Confused now?? This is a prime example of why it is very important to understand how all the components work in the overall system. Let’s say you are a new user and you went out on Saturday as we described. Let’s say you just left all factory defaults and just operated the boat normally. What would likely have happened is the AutoWake system would have filled all the ballast to 100% in the rear. With all the passengers and ballast in the rear, then it would likely have filled all the ballast in the front to 100% to try and get to 9 degree pitch. It is very likely once it got to 100%, it would have given you a popup that said front ballast maxed, unable to achieve 9 degrees pitch, move passengers to front. This would have been a little annoying, but if you wouldn’t have done anything, the popup would go away and you would have ended up running most of the day at 10.5 degrees pitch with popups coming on every time you took off. While the popups would have been annoying, it would at least be telling you what was going on, and the best part is the performance would still have been there and you would have had a great day. Now on Sunday, when you went out with less displacement, you would still get maximum factory ballast, because you never adjusted from factory defaults. On Sunday, you would NOT get popups, because with only 3 passengers, the system can easily achieve the factory settings for pitch and roll. On Sunday, you would not have the same push as Saturday, but you would have more push than if you had left the 10.5 pitch settings. And the best part is by not adjusting settings, you can actually see how the only variable between Saturday and Sunday was the “Amplitude” display and now you see exactly what we mean by how important displacement is.

One example where you might actually want to adjust roll is if you want to play with “wave transfers”. The Flow plates can generally make about a 4 degree change from port surfing to stbd surfing without moving passengers. So, if you want to do transfers without moving passengers, then you might adjust port surfing to a -1 degree roll and stbd surfing to a 3 degree roll. If you do that, then you will probably want to make sure that you have plenty of displacement so that the wave is still good and surfable with these new reduced roll amounts. Like I said before, with enough displacement, it will overcome the slightly lower roll amounts so you should be good. However, if you only have a couple passengers in the boat and factory ballast, then this might not be possible. If that is the case, then during transfers, you might have to have one passenger also move in the boat to help with the roll change between port surfing and stbd surfing.

So, after reading this, you might think I am suggesting that you don’t adjust pitch and roll very often. If so, then you are getting my point. Unless you really know what you are doing, and you have a good knowledge about how you are making adjustments and how they relate to the displacement in the boat that day, then you can actually get less performance if you adjust pitch and roll too much. If you really must adjust pitch and roll, just always remember that high pitch or roll numbers can cause the system to drain front ballast or rear ballast to try and achieve those numbers. While that might be what you want to do to personalize the wave shape or length, just always keep in mind that push and size will always be more affected by displacement than pitch or roll.

[chezdude]

Well, I have all good news. I have written 2 more installments that cover wakeplates and also how and when to adjust pitch and roll. I will be posting those shortly. Also, all our testing has been very promising and we have a firmware fix for any 2017 or 2018 Moomba models. In fact, it is all the same software. And that software includes all the new predictive logic and amplitude display that we included for 2018. If you have a 2017 model, then you will not have a draft sensor, so if the system doesn't see a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display is more like a graphic version of ballast gauges. If you have a 2018 model and it does have a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display works as designed for 2018. We are still experimenting with the idea of making draft sensors available for 2017. It is not as easy as plug and play because we had to change pickup locations to make the draft sensor work, so just know that right now it is not available, but at some point, it might be. If you want the new software, contact your dealer. They can contact our customer service department and we can email them a link to the software. In fact, the dealer should be able to email you the software also and you could probably reflash the software yourself. Another idea is if you use your dealer to winterize or service your boat, then that would also be a good time to get the software installed. Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know that the glitch has been corrected and for those customers with 2017 models, you will also be getting a free upgrade to the improved logic. Stay tuned for more tips posted shortly....

Excellent news. I'll reach out my dealer ASAP.



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[patrick232]

Well, I have all good news. I have written 2 more installments that cover wakeplates and also how and when to adjust pitch and roll. I will be posting those shortly. Also, all our testing has been very promising and we have a firmware fix for any 2017 or 2018 Moomba models. In fact, it is all the same software. And that software includes all the new predictive logic and amplitude display that we included for 2018. If you have a 2017 model, then you will not have a draft sensor, so if the system doesn't see a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display is more like a graphic version of ballast gauges. If you have a 2018 model and it does have a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display works as designed for 2018. We are still experimenting with the idea of making draft sensors available for 2017. It is not as easy as plug and play because we had to change pickup locations to make the draft sensor work, so just know that right now it is not available, but at some point, it might be. If you want the new software, contact your dealer. They can contact our customer service department and we can email them a link to the software. In fact, the dealer should be able to email you the software also and you could probably reflash the software yourself. Another idea is if you use your dealer to winterize or service your boat, then that would also be a good time to get the software installed. Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know that the glitch has been corrected and for those customers with 2017 models, you will also be getting a free upgrade to the improved logic. Stay tuned for more tips posted shortly....

Is this an update for the Supra's too

[goose]

Is this an update for the Supra's too

This is for 2017 and 2018 Moomba only.

[Willyourun]

This is for 2017 and 2018 Moomba only.

What about a 2016 Helix that was upgraded to Autowake?


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[goose]

What about a 2016 Helix that was upgraded to Autowake?


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It actually will work on any 2016 Helix upgraded to AutoWake. Basically it works on any of the Moomba models with the newer color screen which is on all 2017 and 2018 Moombas and 2016 Helix models.

[chezdude]

How long does it usually take for SC to respond to a dealer inquiry about this? I asked my dealer a week ago and they said they asked SC, but not a peep back.

Yesterday, I sent my dealer a note asking if they have heard anything.

I’m 3 hrs from my dealer and my boat is in a lift on the lake so taking it to them is a little complicated and very time consuming.

Thx


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[goose]

How long does it usually take for SC to respond to a dealer inquiry about this? I asked my dealer a week ago and they said they asked SC, but not a peep back.

Yesterday, I sent my dealer a note asking if they have heard anything.

I’m 3 hrs from my dealer and my boat is in a lift on the lake so taking it to them is a little complicated and very time consuming.

Thx


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I just sent you PM. If anyone else has this issue, just send me an email at [email protected] and I will try my best to help you out.

[Stazi]

How can the average owner upload the new software to their Moomba? Is there a USB interface under the dash?


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[stevemarich]

Pm sent check your inbox, if need more info let me know

How can the average owner upload the new software to their Moomba? Is there a USB interface under the dash?



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[Stazi]

Goose is there a way you could email the patch directly to us?


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[Stazi]

Got it to work. My vpn was blocking it.


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[rdlangston13]

For 2017s that got upgraded to the new logic, what is the new software version number?


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[Dtbradly]

Any way I can get this as well?


Pm sent check your inbox, if need more info let me know

[korey]

My first post on the Moomba site! (I've been active on the Supra site for years as I currently own an older Supra and plan to upgrade to a new Craz ASAP)

I've read every word of this thread in my free time over the last week or so. I think I'm sold on Autowake - if nothing else coose's (Matt at SC) presence here pretty much sold me a boat. Make sure your boss see's that comment ;-) !

One question that I haven't seen directly answered: Will Autowake ADD weight back to the boat if it needs to as things change in the boat? The biggest thing driving that question is.. me. I'm 6'4" and 260lb, and my presence in the boat quickly changes the wake. I frequently spend all day dialing it in for the crew that I've got with me, just to have it go to shit when i step behind the boat! My regular crew has gotten better at making adjustments, but I spend a lot of time making tweaks from behind the boat, and I hate it!

[stevemarich]

My first post on the Moomba site! (I've been active on the Supra site for years as I currently own an older Supra and plan to upgrade to a new Craz ASAP)

I've read every word of this thread in my free time over the last week or so. I think I'm sold on Autowake - if nothing else coose's (Matt at SC) presence here pretty much sold me a boat. Make sure your boss see's that comment ;-) !

One question that I haven't seen directly answered: Will Autowake ADD weight back to the boat if it needs to as things change in the boat? The biggest thing driving that question is.. me. I'm 6'4" and 260lb, and my presence in the boat quickly changes the wake. I frequently spend all day dialing it in for the crew that I've got with me, just to have it go to shit when i step behind the boat! My regular crew has gotten better at making adjustments, but I spend a lot of time making tweaks from behind the boat, and I hate it!Yes , depending on your amp settings it will aim to fill first and drain where needed to reach your desired set points. I am 6'1 240 and would get it all set with other riders , and when I jump out to surf , it doesn't take long at all for it to reach autowake achieved with my weight missing. It has simplified things a great for when I'm not driving and want a great wake

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[korey]

Thanks for the quick reply!

[stevemarich]

The joy of taptalk , it will still take some time to get it dialed how you want it, but once you understand what's going on and what needs to be done to maximize your wake , it's very handy , and at that point when someone from your crew drives ,it makes it better for you, that is the main reason I stayed using it for surfing, when I get behind the boat I want a wave just as good as what everyone eles was getting, without headaches

[rdlangston13]

Yes , depending on your amp settings it will aim to fill first and drain where needed to reach your desired set points. I am 6'1 240 and would get it all set with other riders , and when I jump out to surf , it doesn't take long at all for it to reach autowake achieved with my weight missing. It has simplified things a great for when I'm not driving and want a great wake

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what are these amp settings you speak of?

[russellsmojo]

David, I think you will have to get software flashed to update to 2018. There is also a device that you can install to make boat work like autowake 2.


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[stevemarich]

what are these amp settings you speak of?It's the amplitude settings that came with the updated version or on the new 18s, the 18 utilize a draft sensor with it , for 17s with the update you get the amp bar but no draft sensor so it calculates off your ballast percentage. You can set the amp setting to say 75% and it will only fill to around 75% of ballast, I like it for wakeboarding or when don't want full ballast for kids surfing ,I turn the amp setting down to what I want and it goes for that. If I want 100% amp setting to surf port , it will aim to maximize all ballast , if you end up having 100% port 100% front 60% starboard , it will ask you to move people to port side , that way starboard can fill more towards the 80% range. If you have no weight or people to move , you can just turn the amp down to 80% , and for me last Summer, it would still keep port at 100% front 100% and starboard at 60% and I would have no warnings to help maximize ballast. Hope it makes a little sense.

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[rdlangston13]

It's the amplitude settings that came with the updated version or on the new 18s, the 18 utilize a draft sensor with it , for 17s with the update you get the amp bar but no draft sensor so it calculates off your ballast percentage. You can set the amp setting to say 75% and it will only fill to around 75% of ballast, I like it for wakeboarding or when don't want full ballast for kids surfing ,I turn the amp setting down to what I want and it goes for that. If I want 100% amp setting to surf port , it will aim to maximize all ballast , if you end up having 100% port 100% front 60% starboard , it will ask you to move people to port side , that way starboard can fill more towards the 80% range. If you have no weight or people to move , you can just turn the amp down to 80% , and for me last Summer, it would still keep port at 100% front 100% and starboard at 60% and I would have no warnings to help maximize ballast. Hope it makes a little sense.

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Interesting, I thought Goose stated on here that amplitude sensor is for reference purposes only and does not engage autowake filling or draining. Did they change that or did I miss read it something?

[stevemarich]

Interesting, I thought Goose stated on here that amplitude sensor is for reference purposes only and does not engage autowake filling or draining. Did they change that or did I miss read it something?I think the initial thought for the updated versions was to have the bar there but not do anything. But they ended up having it base off your ballast % so you wouldn't have to install a draft sensor to make it function.

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[rdlangston13]

I think the initial thought for the updated versions was to have the bar there but not do anything. But they ended up having it base off your ballast % so you wouldn't have to install a draft sensor to make it function.

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So you’re running a 2017 with the updated software?

Goose, care to chime in?


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[stevemarich]

So you’re running a 2017 with the updated software?

Goose, care to chime in?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI do run the updated software, I believe ended up putting 20hrs on with the new software

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[stevemarich]

I do run the updated software, I believe ended up putting 20hrs on with the new software

Sent from my XT1254 using TapatalkAnd the amplitude does work, and I didn't install the draft sensor. I believe it was version 1 of the update that the amp bar was just there for looks , but that version didn't get sent out.

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[moombahighrider]

David, I have the 2018 software also on my 2017 mojo. The amp settings work as Steve describes. I actually had my dealer add the 2018 draft sensor to the boat, so that the amp settings will work to their full potential. I haven’t had a chance to use it yet as I had it done when I winterized the boat.

[rdlangston13]

David, I have the 2018 software also on my 2017 mojo. The amp settings work as Steve describes. I actually had my dealer add the 2018 draft sensor to the boat, so that the amp settings will work to their full potential. I haven’t had a chance to use it yet as I had it done when I winterized the boat.

What did it run to add the draft sensor? I was still under the impression that it could not be done. I have the new software saved on my computer i just need to save it to a thumb drive and transfer it to the boat.

[moombahighrider]

It was about $450 in parts and 3 hours labor to have the dealer install it.

[RC_Hinojosa]

It was about $450 in parts and 3 hours labor to have the dealer install it.

David....persuade Jim to cut us a deal on doing both of our boats ;)

[goose]

Hey guys. Sorry I was late to the party, been busy working on new stuff. I will try to help answer questions or at least be available to answer any questions that I can't clarify on this post. Just to be clear, we don't actually have an updated 2017 software and a 2018 software. What we have done is added extra logic on the 2018 software so that it is backwards compatible on the 2017 models with AutoWake. So, anytime we have a new software release, that release works for 2018 and 2017. The reason I point that out is because we actually just got another new release. This release actually has some slight improvements for the water temp and paddlewheel depth issues we have had with some boats. It also adds a little more time to the ballast timers that was requested by some of you. Not drastic, but if you have issues with needing a little more time, the new release should help. As of today, the most recent software ends with date 20171121. Typically that is release date (11-21-17) that we get from our vendor. Then we run it through testing and then put it on the floor. So, if anyone wants that, you can contact your dealer and see about getting it. And yes, these updates should be available to email (as some of you already know...). I am still trying to get that easier to download, but at this point, you should try first working with your dealer. I probably shouldn't say this, but some of our dealers may not know about the update, so asking them for it will also remind them it exists. Again, I hate to even say that, but some of you guys definitely keep up with the latest and greatest more than anyone.

As to the questions about the amplitude bar and draft sensor, I will try to clarify it again. I can't remember everything I said before so some of this may be redundant. The amplitude bar (as designed for 2018 ) actually has 2 purposes. The bar itself is actually a graphical representation of overall displacement, including ballast, passengers, gear. The "Actual" is how deep the boat is actually sitting in the water and the entire graphic is basically what the total capacity of the boat can handle. So, if the bar is in the middle of the bar graph, then basically you are only displacing HALF of what you could displace. Again, where this really adds value is just so you can see how much MORE potential you can have with your wave or wake. Most people don't realize that they are only barely scratching the surface of what the surf wave or wakeboard wakes could be. This gives you a clear representation of that. At the bottom of the screen is the "amplitude setting". That is different from the bar. The amplitude setting as described earlier is basically a number relative to your rear ballast only. If the amplitude is set to 100%, then it is trying to maximize rear ballast and always fill as much rear ballast as it can. If it can't, then it will also send you a popup telling you where to move weight so you can maximize rear ballast even more. The front ballast is currently used to maintain pitch control. Again, the system can help you maximize front ballast if you let it. By adjusting pitch set numbers, you can obviously affect how much front ballast is added. Again, I think I went over that in here before, but let the system teach you how to better optimize front ballast also and you will definitely find that maximizing displacement is the key. Changing pitch numbers too much can actually minimize front ballast and I promise that displacement is ALWAYS more important than pitch when it comes to the actual size and feel of the wave.

So, to better answer the questions, on the 2017 models without the draft sensor, obviously the bar graph could NOT show the actual draft. So, if the system does NOT see the CAN address for the draft sensor, then instead of displaying draft, it displays the amplitude setting in the bar graph. Again, the graph itself is not really changing AutoWake, but the amplitude setting IS adjusting ballast and overall displacement is the most critical part. Again, as discussed, the main reason you might want to decrease amplitude is if you want to scale down the wave or wake for younger kids or less experienced riders.

Hope that all makes sense. If I actually confused you more, just let me know. As some of the guys have said on here, I really think once you start using AutoWake more and start to understand how it all works, you will really love it. And as I have said also before, this is NOT the end, only the beginning. Almost every day we are thinking of more and better ways to make this even better. I can't promise that it will always be backwards compatible because sometimes hardware changes make software changes impossible, but we plan to keep working on this as much as possible and I think the next few years it will just get better and better. And as always, a lot of these changes are because of you guys. We love the feedback and the ideas so always keep them coming. If you have anything really cool that you think might be something to keep private, you can always send those ideas to me at my work email. Most of you have it but it is [email protected].

Ok, got to get back to work on the new stuff!! I will try to keep checking every once in a while to keep you guys and girls in the loop!

[russellsmojo]

Goose, Great info. It sounds like through this process you all have figured out for each boat what the max (100%) weight of ballast and people is for each boat in the line. Will that information every be available for folks with older than 2017? For example, 2016 Supra SA 100% or max capability is xx pounds.


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[goose]

On the max capacity, we are just using the USCG capacity numbers. I think most of you know this, but we include the factory ballast in the calculation that is displayed on the capacity sticker. So, in your specific case on a 2016 Supra SA, the capacity of that boat would be an additional 2,400lbs in addition to the 3,200lbs of factory ballast. If you only have 1 driver and 1 passenger, and both driver and passenger were 200lbs each, then you could have an additional 2000lbs of water ballast or lead. Again, this is where the draft sensor comes in handy. Keeping up with how much actual weight you have in passenger or gear weight is difficult. Also, trying to calculate how much exact water weight you have in additional bags or even factory bags is difficult. Most of you probably don't try to figure out exactly how much weight you have in the boat and simply care more about the wave or wake, but again, this is where the draft sensor helps you figure out when you are really duplicating the same setup you had on that epic day when you had the wave perfect. It can also help explain on the days when you don't have the same displacement why the wave "feels" different. If you are a safety oriented person, you might also find value in knowing you are still inside the safety factor of max capacity when you have a lot of passengers in the boat. As I said before, very few consumers are actually running their boats at full capacity. I know some of you are, and some might even be adding more than max capacity. Another place this really comes in handy for us as a manufacture is during demos. Some demos are done the right way, and the dealer or consumer request to duplicate how they think they will really use the boat. However, the majority of demos are NOT done that way. Typically demos include only a couple passengers and factory ballast and during that demo, with very little overall displacement, the boat can only produce about half of it's true potential. If that same potential consumer does a demo with a competitive brand and that dealer actually brings additional ballast or adds a plug and play system, then the demos are not truly apples to apples. The boat with the most displacement will likely have a "larger" wave and now the potential consumer thinks the one brand is better than the other. At least with our patented draft sensor, you can now see exactly what your actual displacement is ON THAT DEMO, and you can see visually that you are only half of your potential. It doesn't fix the fact that you can't see what your actual potential looks like, but it can help explain maybe why that wave is not as huge as you had hoped. Again, in my opinion, if you really are focused on the wave, then during demos, you should request that you load the boat the same way you will use it. But unfortunately the majority of demos that are being done the wrong way are by people not already reading this forum or forum's like this. Hope that helps explain it.

[Prospersigman]

Goose, great info again...thank you!

Quick question can the draft sensor be added to a 2017 SA and can the software be updated to the newest version to take advantage of the added draft sensor?

[russellsmojo]

Thanks for the info and being a contributor on here.


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[goose]

Goose, great info again...thank you!

Quick question can the draft sensor be added to a 2017 SA and can the software be updated to the newest version to take advantage of the added draft sensor?

Well, unfortunately on the 2017 Supra, you can not update the software to include the 2018 changes. It is not actually the software that is the issue, it is actually the hardware. From 2017 to 2018, we changed several items including the PDM layout and harness design. You can actually load the software, but the PDM address locations are different so nothing would work correctly. As I said before, we try our best to make things retrofittable when we can, but sometimes hardware changes are required and then that makes software changes much more difficult. And then to try and free up resources to make custom solutions for 2017 boats that will have some 2018 changes is also very difficult. Hope that makes sense. Sorry.

[Shoebox]

If I upgrade to Flow 2.0 on my 2014 Mondo at my dealer, can Autowake be included in the software upgrade? The computers are the same, right?

[goose]

If I upgrade to Flow 2.0 on my 2014 Mondo at my dealer, can Autowake be included in the software upgrade? The computers are the same, right?

The screens (computers) are actually not the same. They have a very similar size, but the biggest difference is the current screen is color and the screen used in 2014 was black and white. While the color doesn't make the difference, the hardware in the color version is capable of handling the processing duties that AutoWake requires. Unfortunately, the black and white version does not. Again, is it possible to change dash shrouds and color screens and harnesses, etc? Maybe, but it would be very time consuming and very expensive. Plus, since we haven't done it or offer it, it would likely get very complicated and then not work. As I said before, we try our best to make items backwards compatible, but when hardware or harness changes occur, typically we can't make it backwards compatible. Hope that makes sense.

[Shoebox]

The screens (computers) are actually not the same. They have a very similar size, but the biggest difference is the current screen is color and the screen used in 2014 was black and white. While the color doesn't make the difference, the hardware in the color version is capable of handling the processing duties that AutoWake requires. Unfortunately, the black and white version does not. Again, is it possible to change dash shrouds and color screens and harnesses, etc? Maybe, but it would be very time consuming and very expensive. Plus, since we haven't done it or offer it, it would likely get very complicated and then not work. As I said before, we try our best to make items backwards compatible, but when hardware or harness changes occur, typically we can't make it backwards compatible. Hope that makes sense.Thanks. When did the screens and computer change?

[goose]

Thanks. When did the screens and computer change?

The 2016 Helix was actually the first model to get the new screen. Then all the other models switched in 2017.

[Shoebox]

The 2016 Helix was actually the first model to get the new screen. Then all the other models switched in 2017.Did Autowake start in 2017?

[goose]

Did Autowake start in 2017?

Yes. 2017 was first year.

[98outback]

David, I have the 2018 software also on my 2017 mojo. The amp settings work as Steve describes. I actually had my dealer add the 2018 draft sensor to the boat, so that the amp settings will work to their full potential. I haven’t had a chance to use it yet as I had it done when I winterized the boat.

So since this will not work on the 2017 Supra, is it going to actually work on the 2017 moomba?

[moombahighrider]

So since this will not work on the 2017 Supra, is it going to actually work on the 2017 moomba?

Yes, because I have the 2018 software. Not sure if that’s what you are asking, but the boat has all the wiring needed for the 2018 commections

[98outback]

That’s what I meant. Since it wouldn’t work on Supra just wondering that although it hooked up to the moomba was the internal hardware correct for it to work. Thanks for the info.

[iwannagofast]

So since this will not work on the 2017 Supra, is it going to actually work on the 2017 moomba?

I’m also thinking yes based on Goose previous response...


Hey guys. Sorry I was late to the party, been busy working on new stuff. I will try to help answer questions or at least be available to answer any questions that I can't clarify on this post. Just to be clear, we don't actually have an updated 2017 software and a 2018 software. What we have done is added extra logic on the 2018 software so that it is backwards compatible on the 2017 models with AutoWake. So, anytime we have a new software release, that release works for 2018 and 2017. The reason I point that out is because we actually just got another new release. This release actually has some slight improvements for the water temp and paddlewheel depth issues we have had with some boats. It also adds a little more time to the ballast timers that was requested by some of you. Not drastic, but if you have issues with needing a little more time, the new release should help. As of today, the most recent software ends with date 20171121. Typically that is release date (11-21-17).....






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[hotdiesel97]

We're headed to the Louisville boat show tomorrow, and our dealer has a booth there. My wife and I are both controls engineers with a '17 Mojo that we absolutely love, and we've been following this thread since it came out. First off, HUGE help to us in dialing things in and getting good consistent waves. Second, when we had our dealer winterize, they were having difficulty finding anyone who knew about a new update for the display... but after re-reading this over the last couple of days, I'm guessing he asked (because its what we were asking him), about an update for 2017... not the 2018 to upgrade it.

I for sure want to load the 2018 on ours before KY/TN season kicks off. If feasible, I'd really love to install the correct draft sensor. I saw where at least 1 person had done that. Question is, if my dealer goes calling, is there a clear guide to them for doing this yet? It sounded like placement was critical (which I'd expect). So, if there's not a SC defined how-to for them, I'd like to ask for any hints, helps, etc., on here so that we can work it through them. If they aren't able, or don't want to do it, I'm very capable, but also busy enough that I'm happy to throw the business their way.

[korey]

I was in Louisville Wednesday night yacking with Chad and Leon about Autowake and this thread. As of Wednesday, they were up to speed on the differences and seemed like they were willing/competent to do the upgrade. We picked apart the Mojo
and Max they've got there theorizing on what it takes to add the draft sensor. I'll be there Saturday as a family friend turned customer to help their small team where I can, hopefully we meet!

[hotdiesel97]

GREAT! We'll look you up. Those guys have been great to work with thru the years (SeaDoo's at home too), and happy to throw some business their way when I can. Be great if they could do the upgrade and have it ready for lake duty as soon as weather breaks! Depends on how many boats they see :)

[rdlangston13]

Does anyone have a picture of the draft sensor installed on a Mojo? I was just wondering where it went what the installation looked like.

[korey]

I didn't take a picture, but it's on the front wall of the motor compartment aka back of the center seat. I expected it to be on the transom. Actually in retrospect, don't quote me I might be remembering it incorrectly. From a distance it kind of looks about like it's made from 3/4" PVC pipe and fittings and about 16-20" long.

PS, don't take that "made from PVC" comment as anything other than what it looks like from a distance. here is the patent on the device:
https://www.google.com/patents/US20170036738

[moombahighrider]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180127/90eed296e505c1150116abf3aa6c3537.jpg

This is the best I have of the draft sensor on a 2018 mojo pro that I took at the dealer. It’s on the front wall of the engine compartment.

I can take pictures of the draft sensor on my 2017 mojo pro this weekend, if there is any interest.

[Boonejeepin]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180127/90eed296e505c1150116abf3aa6c3537.jpg

This is the best I have of the draft sensor on a 2018 mojo pro that I took at the dealer. It’s on the front wall of the engine compartment.

I can take pictures of the draft sensor on my 2017 mojo pro this weekend, if there is any interest.

The bottom of the draft sensor tube is connected to a hose, a shutoff valve, and then a thru hull fitting very similar to the ballast intakes.


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[moombahighrider]

What he said. ☝️☝️☝️

[98outback]

Please send some pictures. I need to get this done before summer. Thanks

[iwannagofast]

Highrider,

Just heard back from my dealer on this and the parts alone, like nine of them, were $1200.

To top it off, apparently SC specifically said they could not give any installation instructions or advice.

I was thinking I read you paid $400 and 3 hours labor? Was that correct or am I losing it? And did your dealer just wing or had instructions?

Thanks in advance!


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[moombahighrider]

Highrider,

Just heard back from my dealer on this and the parts alone, like nine of them, were $1200.

To top it off, apparently SC specifically said they could not give any installation instructions or advice.

I was thinking I read you paid $400 and 3 hours labor? Was that correct or am I losing it? And did your dealer just wing or had instructions?

Thanks in advance!


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You read correctly. That is what it cost me. And SC did provide some direction as there is a specific height and angle that the tube sensor needs to be. I do know that my dealer used a 2018 boat as a guide also to make sure they got it right. It sounds to me like your dealer is shafting you on this one. Reach out to Goose on this forum (Matt brown at SC). He was a ton of help in interfacing between me and my dealer to make sure we got it right. He provided me a list of all the part numbers needed.

[iwannagofast]

You read correctly. That is what it cost me. And SC did provide some direction as there is a specific height and angle that the tube sensor needs to be. I do know that my dealer used a 2018 boat as a guide also to make sure they got it right. It sounds to me like your dealer is shafting you on this one. Reach out to Goose on this forum (Matt brown at SC). He was a ton of help in interfacing between me and my dealer to make sure we got it right. He provided me a list of all
the part numbers needed.

Yea, I’m going to shoot Goose a DM.

Not sure if you have them available but if so, would you mind posting or DM me the PNs?

The two pricey components quoted to me were the draft sensor (~$320) and a three axis incline sensor (~$540). I imagine without the incline sensor I would be closer to your quote. Do you recall anything about this sensor or if it’s actually needed? I suppose maybe it could be standard on the pro and not the mojo.


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[rdlangston13]

Yea, I’m going to shoot Goose a DM.

Not sure if you have them available but if so, would you mind posting or DM me the PNs?

The two pricey components quoted to me were the draft sensor (~$320) and a three axis incline sensor (~$540). I imagine without the incline sensor I would be closer to your quote. Do you recall anything about this sensor or if it’s actually needed? I suppose maybe it could be standard on the pro and not the mojo.


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The incline sensor should have come with the standard autowake I would think


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[iwannagofast]

The incline sensor should have come with the standard autowake I would think


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Ok good to know. I’ll have to check and confirm that then. Would def bring things back closer to the $400 parts quote.

Several of main guys have been out and setting up for the boat show all week so it probably wasn’t the best time to be calling about this haha.


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[moombahighrider]

Yea, I’m going to shoot Goose a DM.

Not sure if you have them available but if so, would you mind posting or DM me the PNs?

The two pricey components quoted to me were the draft sensor (~$320) and a three axis incline sensor (~$540). I imagine without the incline sensor I would be closer to your quote. Do you recall anything about this sensor or if it’s actually needed? I suppose maybe it could be standard on the pro and not the mojo.


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Here is the parts list that Matt sent me:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180208/475744cbaeb55114f61d26f07e0d8817.jpg

[moombahighrider]

Yea, I’m going to shoot Goose a DM.

Not sure if you have them available but if so, would you mind posting or DM me the PNs?

The two pricey components quoted to me were the draft sensor (~$320) and a three axis incline sensor (~$540). I imagine without the incline sensor I would be closer to your quote. Do you recall anything about this sensor or if it’s actually needed? I suppose maybe it could be standard on the pro and not the mojo.


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The 3 axis incline sensor should already be installed on your boat.

[iwannagofast]

Here is the parts list that Matt sent me:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180208/475744cbaeb55114f61d26f07e0d8817.jpg

Awesome! This matches my parts quote exactly with the exception of the incline sensor.

I’ll round back with my dealer sometime next week once everyone is back from the boat show.

My next hurdle is getting them some basic instructions and not making this a R&D project.


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[goose]

Hey guys. I have been following this the last few days and also hearing about it on our side as well. Let me try and clear up the confusion as well as help where I can.

First, the draft sensor is new for 2018. To install it where we needed it relative to all the other ballast intakes, we had to change the jigs of where everything is located under the hull from 2017. Because of that, there is no written instructions of where to install a draft sensor on a 2017. Since we don't have anything written up, the customer service department has nothing to send you if you want to install it. That is why you got the information you got from customer service. However, you can buy the parts. This is always a tricky deal on if we offer 2018 parts on a 2017 or 2016, but the way we see it is we sell parts in our parts department and we know we can't police exactly where those parts are installed. A dealer can claim he is buying the parts for a 2018, and install on a 2017 so we know we have no control on that side. That is exactly why you got the quote but no written instructions on how to install it. Hope that makes sense.

As to installation, first I have to clarify that the draft sensor is a patented component. If you buy the parts from us, then there is no problem. If you try to duplicate the idea of the parts, then that is your choice, just understand patent protection. On the draft sensor, what is critical is the location of the draft sensor relative to the bottom of the boat. However, the way we do that is we define the distance from the top of the draft sensor to the deck. If you look at the pictures above, you will notice the draft sensor is secured to the deck with a clamp (grey clamp). The draft sensor has a vented cap that sits directly against the clamp. On the Mondo, the top of the grey clamp is 1.5 inches from the deck. On the Craz and Mojo, the top of the clamp is 3.5 inches from the deck. On the Helix, the top of the clamp is 9 inches from the deck. On the Max, the top of the clamp is 14 inches from the deck. Yes, the Max really is that much deeper than all the other boats. As a side note, that is why the Max has a deep storage over the engine. It should also be noted that any storage box over the engine on a Mondo, Craz or Mojo would be really thin. Sorry, I know that is a different thread. hahaha

Anyways, if you want to install the draft sensor, the dealer will have to find the best location for water pickup, and get the correct amount of hose to get the draft sensor eventually located in exactly the right location and especially in the correct location relative to the deck. The dimensions above should help. And if you have major problems, let me know. Just realize that my job is product development and I can't help everyone with every detail on every custom install. But hopefully that helps on the basics.

As to the "incline sensor", that is the Inclinometer that is critical for AutoWake to work. If you already have AutoWake, then you already have the incline sensor. However, if you have a 2017 without AutoWake, then you will need the incline sensor. Hope that clears that up.

Good luck!

[Boonejeepin]

Hey guys. I have been following this the last few days and also hearing about it on our side as well. Let me try and clear up the confusion as well as help where I can.

First, the draft sensor is new for 2018. To install it where we needed it relative to all the other ballast intakes, we had to change the jigs of where everything is located under the hull from 2017. Because of that, there is no written instructions of where to install a draft sensor on a 2017. Since we don't have anything written up, the customer service department has nothing to send you if you want to install it. That is why you got the information you got from customer service. However, you can buy the parts. This is always a tricky deal on if we offer 2018 parts on a 2017 or 2016, but the way we see it is we sell parts in our parts department and we know we can't police exactly where those parts are installed. A dealer can claim he is buying the parts for a 2018, and install on a 2017 so we know we have no control on that side. That is exactly why you got the quote but no written instructions on how to install it. Hope that makes sense.

As to installation, first I have to clarify that the draft sensor is a patented component. If you buy the parts from us, then there is no problem. If you try to duplicate the idea of the parts, then that is your choice, just understand patent protection. On the draft sensor, what is critical is the location of the draft sensor relative to the bottom of the boat. However, the way we do that is we define the distance from the top of the draft sensor to the deck. If you look at the pictures above, you will notice the draft sensor is secured to the deck with a clamp (grey clamp). The draft sensor has a vented cap that sits directly against the clamp. On the Mondo, the top of the grey clamp is 1.5 inches from the deck. On the Craz and Mojo, the top of the clamp is 3.5 inches from the deck. On the Helix, the top of the clamp is 9 inches from the deck. On the Max, the top of the clamp is 14 inches from the deck. Yes, the Max really is that much deeper than all the other boats. As a side note, that is why the Max has a deep storage over the engine. It should also be noted that any storage box over the engine on a Mondo, Craz or Mojo would be really thin. Sorry, I know that is a different thread. hahaha

Anyways, if you want to install the draft sensor, the dealer will have to find the best location for water pickup, and get the correct amount of hose to get the draft sensor eventually located in exactly the right location and especially in the correct location relative to the deck. The dimensions above should help. And if you have major problems, let me know. Just realize that my job is product development and I can't help everyone with every detail on every custom install. But hopefully that helps on the basics.

As to the "incline sensor", that is the Inclinometer that is critical for AutoWake to work. If you already have AutoWake, then you already have the incline sensor. However, if you have a 2017 without AutoWake, then you will need the incline sensor. Hope that clears that up.

Good luck!

Thanks a million for your contributions!


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[iwannagofast]

Hey guys. I have been following this the last few days and also hearing about it on our side as well. Let me try and clear up the confusion as well as help where I can.

First, the draft sensor is new for 2018. To install it where we needed it relative to all the other ballast intakes, we had to change the jigs of where everything is located under the hull from 2017. Because of that, there is no written instructions of where to install a draft sensor on a 2017. Since we don't have anything written up, the customer service department has nothing to send you if you want to install it. That is why you got the information you got from customer service. However, you can buy the parts. This is always a tricky deal on if we offer 2018 parts on a 2017 or 2016, but the way we see it is we sell parts in our parts department and we know we can't police exactly where those parts are installed. A dealer can claim he is buying the parts for a 2018, and install on a 2017 so we know we have no control on that side. That is exactly why you got the quote but no written instructions on how to install it. Hope that makes sense.

As to installation, first I have to clarify that the draft sensor is a patented component. If you buy the parts from us, then there is no problem. If you try to duplicate the idea of the parts, then that is your choice, just understand patent protection. On the draft sensor, what is critical is the location of the draft sensor relative to the bottom of the boat. However, the way we do that is we define the distance from the top of the draft sensor to the deck. If you look at the pictures above, you will notice the draft sensor is secured to the deck with a clamp (grey clamp). The draft sensor has a vented cap that sits directly against the clamp. On the Mondo, the top of the grey clamp is 1.5 inches from the deck. On the Craz and Mojo, the top of the clamp is 3.5 inches from the deck. On the Helix, the top of the clamp is 9 inches from the deck. On the Max, the top of the clamp is 14 inches from the deck. Yes, the Max really is that much deeper than all the other boats. As a side note, that is why the Max has a deep storage over the engine. It should also be noted that any storage box over the engine on a Mondo, Craz or Mojo would be really thin. Sorry, I know that is a different thread. hahaha

Anyways, if you want to install the draft sensor, the dealer will have to find the best location for water pickup, and get the correct amount of hose to get the draft sensor eventually located in exactly the right location and especially in the correct location relative to the deck. The dimensions above should help. And if you have major problems, let me know. Just realize that my job is product development and I can't help everyone with every detail on every custom install. But hopefully that helps on the basics.

As to the "incline sensor", that is the Inclinometer that is critical for AutoWake to work. If you already have AutoWake, then you already have the incline sensor. However, if you have a 2017 without AutoWake, then you will need the incline sensor. Hope that clears that up.

Good luck!

As always, this was very helpful. Thanks for confirming and clarifying some of the above confusion Goose.

To clarify my own R&D comment, that was not intended to mean try to duplicate the draft sensor. Maybe “experimental install” would have been a better choice of words.

Which it sounds like it may end up being anyways.

Thanks again!



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[rdlangston13]

Hey guys. I have been following this the last few days and also hearing about it on our side as well. Let me try and clear up the confusion as well as help where I can.

First, the draft sensor is new for 2018. To install it where we needed it relative to all the other ballast intakes, we had to change the jigs of where everything is located under the hull from 2017. Because of that, there is no written instructions of where to install a draft sensor on a 2017. Since we don't have anything written up, the customer service department has nothing to send you if you want to install it. That is why you got the information you got from customer service. However, you can buy the parts. This is always a tricky deal on if we offer 2018 parts on a 2017 or 2016, but the way we see it is we sell parts in our parts department and we know we can't police exactly where those parts are installed. A dealer can claim he is buying the parts for a 2018, and install on a 2017 so we know we have no control on that side. That is exactly why you got the quote but no written instructions on how to install it. Hope that makes sense.

As to installation, first I have to clarify that the draft sensor is a patented component. If you buy the parts from us, then there is no problem. If you try to duplicate the idea of the parts, then that is your choice, just understand patent protection. On the draft sensor, what is critical is the location of the draft sensor relative to the bottom of the boat. However, the way we do that is we define the distance from the top of the draft sensor to the deck. If you look at the pictures above, you will notice the draft sensor is secured to the deck with a clamp (grey clamp). The draft sensor has a vented cap that sits directly against the clamp. On the Mondo, the top of the grey clamp is 1.5 inches from the deck. On the Craz and Mojo, the top of the clamp is 3.5 inches from the deck. On the Helix, the top of the clamp is 9 inches from the deck. On the Max, the top of the clamp is 14 inches from the deck. Yes, the Max really is that much deeper than all the other boats. As a side note, that is why the Max has a deep storage over the engine. It should also be noted that any storage box over the engine on a Mondo, Craz or Mojo would be really thin. Sorry, I know that is a different thread. hahaha

Anyways, if you want to install the draft sensor, the dealer will have to find the best location for water pickup, and get the correct amount of hose to get the draft sensor eventually located in exactly the right location and especially in the correct location relative to the deck. The dimensions above should help. And if you have major problems, let me know. Just realize that my job is product development and I can't help everyone with every detail on every custom install. But hopefully that helps on the basics.

As to the "incline sensor", that is the Inclinometer that is critical for AutoWake to work. If you already have AutoWake, then you already have the incline sensor. However, if you have a 2017 without AutoWake, then you will need the incline sensor. Hope that clears that up.

Good luck!

We are well aware that it would be really thin but really thin is 1000x better than no storage at all! The axis A20 has one that is super thin as well, probably half what a Mojo would be and it is still extremely useful!

We even had a poll one the Moomba Supra owners Facebook page and everyone wants one of these. If nothing else can you give us your supplier information so we can contact them directly about it?


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[goose]

Hey David. I saw the poll and I totally agree on usefulness even if it's thin. I was really just trying to set the expectations that if we do a cover, it would not be as deep as the Max. Just so you know, the project is obviously on our radar. And truthfully, I am pretty sure we will get something eventually, I just can't confirm on when and how much it might cost. As you guys know, we love making our current customers happy with retrofittable projects, but we also have to balance that with the new product development projects. I am sure I will keep you posted as we get something.

[rdlangston13]

Hey David. I saw the poll and I totally agree on usefulness even if it's thin. I was really just trying to set the expectations that if we do a cover, it would not be as deep as the Max. Just so you know, the project is obviously on our radar. And truthfully, I am pretty sure we will get something eventually, I just can't confirm on when and how much it might cost. As you guys know, we love making our current customers happy with retrofittable projects, but we also have to balance that with the new product development projects. I am sure I will keep you posted as we get something.

Haha ok, as long as you were not using the thin ness as an excuse to dismiss us. It would awesome to have something out before summer...:-)


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[iwannagofast]

I’ll second this[emoji1362]
It would awesome to have something out before summer...:-)


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[parrothd]

If you wanna DIY, use this, take the float and sensor out and insert it into a pipe. �� You could use the seadoos gas guage to to see how full or deep you are.

https://goo.gl/images/zDbkgL

[parrothd]

Is the draft sensor installed in the engine compartment? If so seems like a really bad idea, every big roller you hit would spray the engine.

[Stazi]

I’m sure that there is hydraulic damping by way of an upper vent orrifice to prevent sudden and drastic height changes in the tube.


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[parrothd]

I'm sure there is until the top breaks off.. Lol

[moombahighrider]

The draft sensor does not allow water out of it. No spray happening

[rdlangston13]

Just updated my boat with the newest software. Eager to try it out now!


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[98outback]

What is the latest version # for our 2017? I had mine done back in October or November last year. Can’t remember when.

[rdlangston13]

What is the latest version # for our 2017? I had mine done back in October or November last year. Can’t remember when.

20171121


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[98outback]

20171121


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Thanks. I will check mine we I get back in town.

[bbyrnes]

Goose,

Would you mind sharing the autowake software update download link and how to get it installed?

Thanks,
- Brian

[RC_Hinojosa]

Goose,

Would you mind sharing the autowake software update download link and how to get it installed?

Thanks,
- Brian

I gotcha, check ur PM

[Broke Pilot]

RC, would you mind sending it to me too? Thanks!

[RC_Hinojosa]

No prob.

Sent, but it's likely Moomba specific. Check with Goose or Rinker's...

[jbird]

I'd love to get the latest version too if it's not too much trouble. Thanks RC for sharing this!

[RC_Hinojosa]

I'd love to get the latest version too if it's not too much trouble. Thanks RC for sharing this!

No prob, check your inbox.

[Prospersigman]

No prob.

Sent, but it's likely Moomba specific. Check with Goose or Rinker's...

I had sent Goose an email asking if my 2017 SA could be updated and his response was that it is specific to Moomba and will not work on the Supra.

[shockthis]

Does the new auto wake fill as well as drain we making adjustment while underway or does it just keep emptying ballast to make that adjustment?
Thanks in advance

[rdlangston13]

Does the new auto wake fill as well as drain we making adjustment while underway or does it just keep emptying ballast to make that adjustment?
Thanks in advance

The way I understand it for a 17 that has the new software but not the amplitude sensor is the amplitude reading is a % of rear bag fill. So if you have the amplitude at 100 and the pitch is too high then it will automatically add weight to the bow to bring the pitch down while maintains the rear weight. If it has filled the bow 100% and the pitch is still to great then instead of dumping rear weight it will alert you to move passengers or weight inside the boat to achieve the desired setting without dumping weight. If you run the amplitude below 100 then the boat will be able to adjust itself more before the point where it will ask you to move people around. So I think it’s first directive is to add weight if possible.


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[goose]

Hey guys. Sorry I have been away for a while, we are trying to finish up all the 2019 stuff so been a little busy. And before you ask, no I can't say anything about new stuff....hahaha

David is correct on his understanding. If you haven't read all the "tips" earlier in this thread, then you should start there. But the short version is AutoWake ALWAYS tries to fill first. However, AutoWake (or manual methods for that matter) can not OVERFILL what is already full. So, if you have passengers located in NON-OPTIMAL locations and AutoWake can not make the adjustment by filling, then yes, it will drain to achieve a specific pitch or roll. But Autowake has never tried to drain first. It has always tried to fill first and then drain only if the one side is full.

The new software does include pop-ups to let you know when it has drained to a certain amount. The reason for the popup is to try and help you achieve more displacement by first moving passengers or gear, so that the system can go back and refill the ballast that was drained.

Hope that makes sense.

matt




The way I understand it for a 17 that has the new software but not the amplitude sensor is the amplitude reading is a % of rear bag fill. So if you have the amplitude at 100 and the pitch is too high then it will automatically add weight to the bow to bring the pitch down while maintains the rear weight. If it has filled the bow 100% and the pitch is still to great then instead of dumping rear weight it will alert you to move passengers or weight inside the boat to achieve the desired setting without dumping weight. If you run the amplitude below 100 then the boat will be able to adjust itself more before the point where it will ask you to move people around. So I think it’s first directive is to add weight if possible.


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[hotdiesel97]

Hey guys, I've got a 2017 Mojo with Autowake. I've been working with my dealer to get their help installing the new draft sensor, but they are still pretty much consumed in their shop right now. I could do it myself, but hoping to throw some business their way to keep the communication going (likely buy from them again in the future). My wife and I are both engine controls engineers, so I'm pretty confident we could load the 2018 program if someone could send it along with some basic how-to? I figure we could at least make use of the newer logic, and longer timers, while we wait on the draft sensor install. We have 1100lb bags and I typically have to bump the switch for 1 or 2 extra 30second fills with the timers maxed out.

Hint to Goose and the other super helpful SC folks: Seems there may be a decent argument for a couple of engineers hired to focus on upfit of older boats to newer technology stuff... create the drawings, work thru functionality, etc.... for a new segment of offerings to help new boat owners feel confident they can keep it cutting edge-ish, for at least maybe 5 years after production??? Just a thought. Resume is available on request :)

[98outback]

No prob, check your inbox.

Could you send me the latest update? Thanks

[RC_Hinojosa]

Could you send me the latest update? Thanks

Update sent, check your inbox.

[korey]

My wife and I are both engine controls engineers

Resume is available on request :)

Engine control engineers in Indiana with a diesel user name? Cummins?

+1 on the resume :mrgreen: Contract work upon request >> https://kinemetrix.com/

[russellsmojo]

I learned that autowake fills port, then starboard, then front. So good trick is to fill everything up with switches then hit autowake to adjust. I don’t know yet if it drains/adjust in same or reverse order?

This may be old news but I stumbled on it today.




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[DFTR Josh]

I learned that autowake fills port, then starboard, then front. So good trick is to fill everything up with switches then hit autowake to adjust. I don’t know yet if it drains/adjust in same or reverse order?

I'm really diving into AW since I will need the launch feature to get to wake speeds. My problem is I forget to calibrate it and all setting out the window, rookie move on my part. Second after calibrating I zero'd out the offset number, DON'T DO IT! Yikes my AW was crazy off after that.

[russellsmojo]

Do you calibrate every time or just forgot the first time?

My dealer was explaining it works better adjusting from full ballast than empty ballast. Guess should not say better but at least you have a wake that is improving versus none at all. Haha.


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[DFTR Josh]

Do you calibrate every time or just forgot the first time?
My dealer was explaining it works better adjusting from full ballast than empty ballast. Guess should not say better but at least you have a wake that is improving versus none at all. Haha.

You should only have to calibrate once, suggested the first time out with no gear and a full tank of gas. 1 person stand in the middle and press the buttons and you're good to go. There after you will have to play with the AW pitch and roll to your desired wake/wave. I have also found it best to fill up all ballast then start playing with AW from there. I actually fill to my offset weight and then let AW do the rest.

[goose]

You should only have to calibrate once, suggested the first time out with no gear and a full tank of gas. 1 person stand in the middle and press the buttons and you're good to go. There after you will have to play with the AW pitch and roll to your desired wake/wave. I have also found it best to fill up all ballast then start playing with AW from there. I actually fill to my offset weight and then let AW do the rest.Hey guys. On my phone so i will reply more later. But autowake first achieves static roll, then amplitude, and adjusts pitch as needed. Thats why one pump fills first, then other. On roll, it actually takes same time. Either you manually fill all pumps then it drains to achieve roll, or you achieve roll, then it fills both sides. Hope that makes sense. But good news is it works either way and you can use whichever method you prefer.

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[russellsmojo]

Thanks for clarifying. If I fill ballast 100% then hit autowake. What order would it start adjusting? And is there no way to see ballast levels when autowake is on???


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[hotdiesel97]

Does anyone have the 2018 update that I can load on our 2017 Mojo? I'm going to wait on the dealer to get the draft sensor install, but I'd like to go ahead and load the updated software in advance.

Thanks.

[hugerb1]

I have a 2017 Mojo and would love is someone could send me the link to the updated software.

Maybe the manufacturer could put a link on their page to allow owners to get some of these updates, seems to be a lot of interest in it ;)

[Stazi]

I have a 2017 Mojo and would love is someone could send me the link to the updated software.

Maybe the manufacturer could put a link on their page to allow owners to get some of these updates, seems to be a lot of interest in it ;)

Email me guys. [email protected]


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[jrellis1154]

Matt,

I have two questions related to my 2017 Mojo Surf Pro.
1. What is the current software and is there a link to download the latest software
2. Need some advice on checking the Inclinometer on the boat and how to recalibrate the meter
a. I have read the earlier post on setting the roll but I’m a little concerned that the pitch may be off
b. Is the floor consider level point in the boat that I can use to check the pitch and roll with a digital level?
Love the boat

[goose]

Matt,

I have two questions related to my 2017 Mojo Surf Pro.
1. What is the current software and is there a link to download the latest software
2. Need some advice on checking the Inclinometer on the boat and how to recalibrate the meter
a. I have read the earlier post on setting the roll but I’m a little concerned that the pitch may be off
b. Is the floor consider level point in the boat that I can use to check the pitch and roll with a digital level?
Love the boat

Sorry about delay on some of these posts lately. We are in the busy season working on 2019 so haven't had much time to respond.

On this question, you can email me and I can send you a link to the latest software. There are also other guys on here that have it and if you send them messages, they can send it to you also. It is really easy to download and install and I think you will really like the improvements.

As to your inclinometer, I first recommend you install the latest software. Once you have it, then you can recalibrate pitch and roll independent of each other. The easiest way to calibrate roll, is to run the boat at wakeboard speeds. It is really easy to see when the wakes are completely symmetrical, and once they are, then you can recalibrate roll to zero. On pitch, it is not quite as easy. You can get the boat on the trailer and get the floor level, but unfortunately, the boat does not actually sit perfectly level relative to the water. All our testing has been relative to the boat sitting in the water, with only 1 passenger standing in the walkway with no additional ballast. The easiest way to do that is sometime when you have trailered the boat to the lake, when the boat is first put in the water, recalibrate pitch to zero before adding ballast or passengers. Once you have it calibrated correctly, you never have to recalibrate, even if you reinstall software.

Hope that helps. I will try to go back and answer the other questions shortly....

[Prospersigman]

Sorry about delay on some of these posts lately. We are in the busy season working on 2019 so haven't had much time to respond.



So do tell Matt...what can we expect in 2019?? I'm ready for a 2019 Supra with 4000lbs sub floor ballast, in-floor cooler, new design transom walk through, updated dash design with larger touchscreen.

[parrothd]

Could someone send me the link?

[goose]

Thanks for clarifying. If I fill ballast 100% then hit autowake. What order would it start adjusting? And is there no way to see ballast levels when autowake is on???


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Hey guys, this is another question that gets asked a lot and I will try and add clarity....

First AutoWake is a completely REACTIVE based system. It actually has a lot of logic, look up tables, and other programming that makes it work (as well as many patents....), but it really doesn't have a fixed logic as to how it operates. It is constantly monitoring the actual pitch and roll of the boat and adjusts as it needs. So, to answer this question, IF you were to fill ballast to 100%, then hit AutoWake, it will adjust in this order....It will first try and correct the roll of the boat. If you have 100% full ballast, then it can not fill MORE than 100%, so in this case, it can only drain the side it needs to correct roll. And the side it needs to drain depends on where passengers are located. If the system actually drains down to 80% on one side, then it will actually give you a pop up recommending you move passengers so that it can re-fill some of the ballast that it drained. At the same time, it will also adjust ballast in the front to achieve pitch. Again, if you start with 100% ballast, then all it can do is drain ballast since it can not fill more than 100%. If the pitch settings are lower than actual and it has already 100% full ballast in the front, then it will again give you a pop up telling you it can not achieve pitch and it will recommend you add weight to the front.

For many users, it might be best to start by manually filling all ballast to 100% and then turn on AutoWake. But keep in mind that is NOT always best case. Especially if you don't have much displacement in terms of passengers. Let me explain.

In most cases, surf wakes are generally best created when the pitch of the boat is close to 9 degrees or better. In fact, on most boats, if you have a true pitch of 7.5 or less, you might not be able to get a clean wave at all. If you are in a longer boat (such as Mojo), and you only have a few passengers, and they are all sitting toward the dash or even in the bow of the boat, then if you fill all the ballast (in Mojo that is 1800lbs in the rear and 1200lbs in the front) then turn on Autowake, it is very likely that based on the LACK of additional rear weight or passengers, the AutoWake will probably have to drain at least 50% and maybe up to 75% of the front ballast to achieve the 9 degree pitch. That may sound like a huge negative to the system, but remember the system is doing what the boat NEEDS to achieve the wave and passenger location is very critical in that. In this example, if you turned on Autowake and jumped behind the boat, you would actually have a BAD experience, because it might take 3-4 minutes for Autowake to drain enough water to achieve the pitch you need. Again, in this example, if you would have actually started with Zero ballast then the system would actually achieve pitch and roll quicker with predictive state because it would only have filled enough front ballast as needed as it REACTED to exactly where passengers were sitting. Then when you started, you would have a clean wave and typically a smaller clean wave "looks" better than a wave that is not shaped correctly. As you ride, you would notice that the wave would not have much "push", but then as you look at your ballast % (which you can do anytime by manually turning ballast on then off, then turning AutoWake back on), you will realize that by moving passengers to the rear of the boat will allow you to put more ballast in the front on the boat, creating more overall displacement and that is when the "push" will improve.

Hopefully that makes sense. Again, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters in surfing is what is the boat actually doing as it moves through the water. The pitch and roll of the boat (each might be different based on brand and type of surf system) will ALWAYS define the shape of the wave. The displacement (overall weight of boat, ballast, passengers) will ALWAYS define the size of the wave.

Ok, more information to come later....

[goose]

So do tell Matt...what can we expect in 2019?? I'm ready for a 2019 Supra with 4000lbs sub floor ballast, in-floor cooler, new design transom walk through, updated dash design with larger touchscreen.

Come on, you know I can't comment on 2019 stuff....but I can tell you we are working as hard as we can to continually improve both our brands. Stay tuned....

[kennc]

Goose,

2017 Mojo with current software. No draft sensor. Amp setting at 100.

After surfing with rear ballasts at 100% (or as close as autowake allows) I want to take a wakeboard set.

I manually drain the rear ballast to 50% and turn on autowake for wakeboarding.

Is autowake going to fill those rear bags?

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[Prospersigman]

Come on, you know I can't comment on 2019 stuff....but I can tell you we are working as hard as we can to continually improve both our brands. Stay tuned....

Oh I know, but couldn't help myself...looking forward to big things!!

[korey]

I've only had my boat one weekend, but after reading all of this and 5 hours on the water I've quickly learned to use Autowake as a guide for where to move my additional weight (lead, humans, cooler, whatever). My quick, simple rule, move the movable payload towards the most full bag. you can't fill over 100%, but you can supplement! Heading out tonight with 3 dudes and 2 fly high 1100's out of my direct drive to lay in the floor :twisted:

[goose]

Goose,

2017 Mojo with current software. No draft sensor. Amp setting at 100.

After surfing with rear ballasts at 100% (or as close as autowake allows) I want to take a wakeboard set.

I manually drain the rear ballast to 50% and turn on autowake for wakeboarding.

Is autowake going to fill those rear bags?

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Short answer is the rear ballast levels are tied to amplitude with most recent software. So if you want to wakeboard with approximately 50% rear ballast, then just change amplitude to 50. It will achieve desired roll first, then drain to achieve average rear ballast of 50%. Front ballast adjusts to achieve pitch.

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[goose]

I've only had my boat one weekend, but after reading all of this and 5 hours on the water I've quickly learned to use Autowake as a guide for where to move my additional weight (lead, humans, cooler, whatever). My quick, simple rule, move the movable payload towards the most full bag. you can't fill over 100%, but you can supplement! Heading out tonight with 3 dudes and 2 fly high 1100's out of my direct drive to lay in the floor :twisted:Korey, you have it figured out perfectly!!

For many people, Autowake is a tool to get a good wave easy. But the real beauty of Autowake is letting it teach you how to become the best driver possible while maximizing displacement. Some people claim they dont like Autowake because it drains ballast and they prefer to do it manually and move passengers. I say let Autowake tell you exactly where to put those passengers so that you have max displacement AND the perfect pitch and roll. Once you learn how to do that, then you can optimize every experience on the lake with very few days of not being able to get the wave or wake just right....

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[jrellis1154]

Thanks Matt for all the information you have provided in this thread.

[Prospersigman]

Lots of good information about auto wake from Ragboy and then second video is Matt...aka Goose.

https://youtu.be/E3MFCQ8lPiQ
https://youtu.be/coY8nXeN654

[chawk610]

Watching matt brown vid now... doing homework!!

[rdlangston13]

If you and the mrs make it to the Jam we can teach yah all about it!


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[chawk610]

If you and the mrs make it to the Jam we can teach yah all about it!


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We are seriously thinking about it

[rdlangston13]

We are seriously thinking about it

Just remember how much fun yah had the last time y’all came and it should be pretty convincing


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[shockthis]

Hey Matt

Question on the SL, so if the front ballast only fills to 70% can I weight to the rear and then fill the front full to increase my amplitude? Right now everyone is adding including Ragboy to the Middle, seems like the logic would be to increase weight to the rear of the boat seeing as the ballast in the nose of the boat doesn't fill full. If I add weight to the mid ship it seems that it would only slightly fill the nose more. It seem that once I get enough weight in the rear to fill the nose ballast full only then would I add more in the middle of the boat. Does that make sense?
Thanks

[euro2012]

I believe Ragboy has 100lbs in each rear locker (200 total in the rear) and about 375 mid ship, if I understood correctly from his videos. People also sit in the back when he goes out, I believe.

[parrothd]

Update sent, check your inbox.

Could you send me the update as well?

[RC_Hinojosa]

Could you send me the update as well?

Check your inbox

[goose]

Hey Matt

Question on the SL, so if the front ballast only fills to 70% can I weight to the rear and then fill the front full to increase my amplitude? Right now everyone is adding including Ragboy to the Middle, seems like the logic would be to increase weight to the rear of the boat seeing as the ballast in the nose of the boat doesn't fill full. If I add weight to the mid ship it seems that it would only slightly fill the nose more. It seem that once I get enough weight in the rear to fill the nose ballast full only then would I add more in the middle of the boat. Does that make sense?
Thanks

I think you already answered your question, but yes, as someone said earlier, if you add weight in the same area as where the factory ballast is already full, then the system can REACT by adding ballast where the factory ballast may NOT be full. And keep in mind that passenger weight is considered weight. So, on your SL, if you are running only 70% of your front ballast, then you are missing out on probably close to 375 lbs of factory ballast in the front. That is about the equivalent of 2 adults. So, adding 2 more adults to the back seat area, would allow the system to probably fill back the missing weight in the front, and you are actually almost doubling the total displacement (2 more passengers in rear and 2 passengers worth in the front). AND, that is about 750lbs more than before! See how this all adds up quick? Now, if you are just moving passengers from the middle of the boat to the back, or from bow to the back, then you are only adding the missing ballast (375lbs), but I can promise you that 375lbs of displacement is a NOTICEABLE difference. In fact, if you only have a few passengers to start with, it could make a HUGE difference in your overall experience that day.

I know I have written a lot, but hopefully everyone is starting to learn that AutoWake is not just a simple "easy button" or different name for a "rider profile". It is very complex system that can help everyone achieve the best wake or wave possible. If you are not experimenting and letting AutoWake make you a better driver and rider, then you are really missing out on some of the best elements of that system. I know it is not quite the same, but just turning AutoWake on and not exploring how to use it is like having a smart phone and only using it to make phone calls.

[RC_Hinojosa]

I know I have written a lot, but hopefully everyone is starting to learn that AutoWake is not just a simple "easy button" or different name for a "rider profile".

Just wanted to say thanks again for staying engaged on this thread and helping us further understand the topic!!

[hotdiesel97]

I absolutely agree!!! We were new to surf last year, and this thread really helped alot. The open discussion with customers and SC experts is awesome. This specific thread continues to help us become more effective with our Mojo.

[euro2012]

Just wanted to say thanks again for staying engaged on this thread and helping us further understand the topic!!

I could not agree more with this statement. Having had 2 malibus and 2 Nautiques before our Supra SL, I have never experienced such customer care! It is much appreciated that the people who design and make these boats are so connected and involved with their customers. The performance of the boat reflects your commitment, thanks so much!

[russellsmojo]

I read this somewhere on this forum and it’s the best tip yet on autowake.

Essentially put the most lead or people where you want it for surfing or in rear for wakeboarding. Then let autowake do it’s thing to maximize the other bags.

I was about to just give up on autowake and tried this yesterday. Huge difference in performance.


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[Stazi]

Tried updating the software today. Was able to get into bootloader mode, but then got an error with a folder icon with an exclamation point and a zero in the top right corner. I am thinking something is wrong with my update file...Please help.

27062

Try deleting the file off the jump drive and reload it. It may have been corrupted. Also ensure that you only have that file on the drive.


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[korey]

I mess with a lot of low volume industrial devices that are touchy about certain thumb drives. I've got no experience with this device, but could imagine how it might be the same. If you don't get anywhere with re-copying the files, try another brand thumb drive. Usually the smaller the better with devices like this - super large drives actually have software to manage that that doesn't jive with devices like this. Also make sure it isn't some fancy thumb drive with any sort of software encryption.

[parrothd]

Is the drive empty with only the update on it?