Thru hull for IBS

[sivs1]

was looking through and couldn't find anything specific on adding an IBS to a GIII system so thought I would start one. Time for G IV


My current setup is pretty standard GIII:

1 thru hull
1 pump
1 three valve sprinkler valve setup


My next winter project, next year hopefully will be to replace the current setup.

I should have an IBS arriving today and was thinking of setting it up on it's own thru hull. I would use this thru hull to fill the ski locker bag as well when I redo the system, but am thinking to make sure I plan ahead when plumbing in the IBS.

Questions?

Should the thru hull be towards the stern near the current GIII thru hull?
was planning on using 1" for the fill line and 3/4 for the drain, should that work?
Do I need two drain lines from the IBS? one for each leg? or would one work?
I was going to put the drain thru hull right next to the ski locker drain, should I have any issues there?
If I wanted to replace the ski locker lines with 1" and connect to the new thru hull, do I just put in a T from the thru hull going to separate pumps for each bag? do I need to do anything else?


I've already spent my budget and then some for this year, building new house and having a baby kinda puts a kink in my mods. So I'll be sourcing locally and online to find the best deals.

As always, help is appreciated.

[mmandley]

The cheapest way for you to use the IBS this season is, attach a line from your center bag top port, to your IBS leg. Then you can allow it to fill with your center bag.

To drain it you will need 2 700 tsunami pumps, you can piggy back those pumps to the drain on the center bag for power. Just change the fuse from 5 to 20amp. The drain line can be tied into the center bag drain through hull. All the pumps will be running so you wont get the IBS back filling the center.

Later if you want to run separate pumps, separate intake you will want to put it in the rear bilge like the factory one is. I would also with a shut off valve on it for safety.

[gregski]

I would recommend a reversible pump. Add the through-hull, go to the pump and then the center bag, move the drain to the front center port of the IBS and piggy back the IBS off of the center bag (where the drain was). The pump would be more expensive ($150 difference compared to 2x $25 pumps) but you only have to add a short hose from the center to the IBS and reuse all the other plumbing; the sum total might not be that different. If you run everything off of the sprinkler manifold system, your fill times will be pretty long. Getting the center and IBS off of that on it's own pump would really speed things up.

The only caution I'd have with mmandley's method is changing the fuse from 5 to 20A. It would really depend on how you have it wired. I wouldn't want that much current on one of those little wires. You would need to make the common connection at the fuse, not down the wire somewhere.

[trayson]

was looking through and couldn't find anything specific on adding an IBS to a GIII system so thought I would start one. Time for G IV


My current setup is pretty standard GIII:

1 thru hull
1 pump
1 three valve sprinkler valve setup


My next winter project, next year hopefully will be to replace the current setup.

I should have an IBS arriving today and was thinking of setting it up on it's own thru hull. I would use this thru hull to fill the ski locker bag as well when I redo the system, but am thinking to make sure I plan ahead when plumbing in the IBS.

Questions?

Should the thru hull be towards the stern near the current GIII thru hull?
was planning on using 1" for the fill line and 3/4 for the drain, should that work?
Do I need two drain lines from the IBS? one for each leg? or would one work?
I was going to put the drain thru hull right next to the ski locker drain, should I have any issues there?
If I wanted to replace the ski locker lines with 1" and connect to the new thru hull, do I just put in a T from the thru hull going to separate pumps for each bag? do I need to do anything else?


I've already spent my budget and then some for this year, building new house and having a baby kinda puts a kink in my mods. So I'll be sourcing locally and online to find the best deals.

As always, help is appreciated.

How are you planning on re-doing your system next year? I've found that the options for trying to utilize anything from your current G3 system is dismal.

fill thru-hull
The location of the fill thru hull matters most if you're continuing to use aerator pumps. the pumps need to be right off the thru-hull for priming and oriented in a way that will facilitate the priming. I've found that it was a PITA to find the space for multiple thru hulls with aerators because you have to have room for the ball valve and still have enough room to spin on the pump and not have the outlet port of the pump hit anything.

Hose size
You certainly can use that combo if you really wanted to. I guess it depends on what pump you're using to drain and how long you want it to take. and what your ultimate plan is for the future and whether you want to get by on minimal dollars now vs. spending more down the road if you want to up the line later. I went with T1200 pumps for fill and drain and 1" lines for fill and drain. I used the 3/4" existing drain lines for venting. I will tell you that going to 1" adds up quick, as you need new bag fittings, new thru-hulls, everything. If you're skittish about drilling holes drain/vent thru hulls you can always do check valves and Tee into existing thru hulls. However, another thru hull is cheaper than a check valve, so you're not saving money, you're saving holes.

One or two drain lines
Not totally sure on that one. At a minimum, you could go with two lines and tee it into one. But if you're using aerator pumps, why wouldn't you add a 2nd pump and have two lines? The extra price of a 2nd pump is marginal. just loop the drain line up as high on the gunwales as possible to prevent passive draining. I used 90 degree thru hulls so I could point my hose up a little.

New thru hull
Again it depends on what kind of pumps we're talking about. if aerator, then yeah, you could go thruhull -> ball valve -> Tee -> pumps. If aerator pumps you'll want to make sure you have check valves after the pumps on the line to fill the bags, because otherwise the bags could drain passively out the bottom of the boat. In the factory system, the sprinkler valves stop that passive draining. but if you don't have sprinkler valves, then you'll need check valves.

By all means, let us know the direction you're going and your shopping list. If I know any ways to save you money, I'll be happy to give insight.

[brain_rinse]

I would recommend a reversible pump. Add the through-hull, go to the pump and then the center bag, move the drain to the front center port of the IBS and piggy back the IBS off of the center bag (where the drain was). The pump would be more expensive ($150 difference compared to 2x $25 pumps) but you only have to add a short hose from the center to the IBS and reuse all the other plumbing; the sum total might not be that different. If you run everything off of the sprinkler manifold system, your fill times will be pretty long. Getting the center and IBS off of that on it's own pump would really speed things up.

The only caution I'd have with mmandley's method is changing the fuse from 5 to 20A. It would really depend on how you have it wired. I wouldn't want that much current on one of those little wires. You would need to make the common connection at the fuse, not down the wire somewhere.
I agree with this recommendation. By the time you buy 2 aerator pumps to drain, plus fittings and thru-hulls, you're close to the cost of a reversible. I went with dedicated aerator fill and drain pumps on my LSV because I wanted the better fill speed. It ultimately worked out great, but took a fair amount of tuning through trial and error. If I were to do it all over again I would have done 4 reversibles on 2 big thru-hulls and simplified the entire system.

Here is where I installed my thru-hulls:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm219/dan_powers/08%20Moomba%20Mobius%20LSV/thru_hull_new.jpg
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?8354-my-08-LSV-mods&p=88275#post88275

[trayson]

I would recommend a reversible pump. Add the through-hull, go to the pump and then the center bag, move the drain to the front center port of the IBS and piggy back the IBS off of the center bag (where the drain was). The pump would be more expensive ($150 difference compared to 2x $25 pumps) but you only have to add a short hose from the center to the IBS and reuse all the other plumbing; the sum total might not be that different. If you run everything off of the sprinkler manifold system, your fill times will be pretty long. Getting the center and IBS off of that on it's own pump would really speed things up.

The only caution I'd have with mmandley's method is changing the fuse from 5 to 20A. It would really depend on how you have it wired. I wouldn't want that much current on one of those little wires. You would need to make the common connection at the fuse, not down the wire somewhere.

Greg is right that reversible is most certainly easier. I can show you where to get the Johnson reversible (albeit with the older style black impeller, not the orange) for $150 if you end up going that way...

[trayson]

I agree with this recommendation. By the time you buy 2 aerator pumps to drain, plus fittings and thru-hulls, you're close to the cost of a reversible. I went with dedicated aerator fill and drain pumps on my LSV because I wanted the better fill speed. It ultimately worked out great, but took a fair amount of tuning through trial and error. If I were to do it all over again I would have done 4 reversibles on 2 big thru-hulls and simplified the entire system.

Here is where I installed my thru-hulls:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm219/dan_powers/08%20Moomba%20Mobius%20LSV/thru_hull_new.jpg
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?8354-my-08-LSV-mods&p=88275#post88275

It does take a lot more trial/error/tuning with aerators. that's for damn sure. I'm not sure if I had to do it over if I would have went reversible or not. I do know that aerators were a lot more install work. However, I am in the process of adding 'one last pump' to fill an underseat bag and possibly a bow underseat bag, and I went reversible for that one. so I'll have a hybrid system with 6 aerators and 1 reversible.

[sivs1]

Thanks for all the feedback, I was out enjoying an inch of fresh snow this morning on top of ice. I already have a T800 aerator pump I was hoping to use, so thinking that would save me a little.

My initial plan for next season is to completely redo the system. I have 800 bags in each of the lockers and want to keep those, ski locker bag is as big as it can be (650 I think) and IBS is 550. I do not mind the idea of two thru hulls and then split to the pimps for each bag. Ideally I would like to have all four fill/drain independently without tying into the floor bag.

I have to buy the fittings for the IBS, so figured I would just do it right with 1" hose from the start.

So based on feedback, here's a thought with shopping list included.

1" hose to run from stern to bow
3/4" drain hose for each side of IBS (fills from the front, drains from each leg) I already have some, might even be enough!
New thru hull in bilge area, what size would you recommend if next year I use this to run ski locker and IBS?
T1200 pump to fill
Ball valve after thru hull before pump
T800 pump for the second 3/4" drain
3/4" drain thru hulls
1" fill bag fittings
3/4" drain bag fittings


I do like the idea of a reversible, but I think I can do all of this for less than the $150 and still have decent fill and drain times.

[trayson]

If you're going to add a t1200, are you going to have it go directly into a bag? If so, you'll need a check valve.

Also, you'll want to use the one from Wakemakers that has the 1" threaded intake so that you can screw it directly onto the ball valve (or onto a 1" elbow if you don't have the vertical clearance)
http://www.wakemakers.com/attwood-tsunami-ballast-pump-1200-short.html

I would think that a 1" thru hull would be fine and would be easier to integrate to ball valves and pump

[sivs1]

If so, you'll need a check valve.



Good call, will add it to the list. I was thinking 1" thru hull as well, should be good to fill two bags.

[mmandley]

Thanks for all the feedback, I was out enjoying an inch of fresh snow this morning on top of ice. I already have a T800 aerator pump I was hoping to use, so thinking that would save me a little.

My initial plan for next season is to completely redo the system. I have 800 bags in each of the lockers and want to keep those, ski locker bag is as big as it can be (650 I think) and IBS is 550. I do not mind the idea of two thru hulls and then split to the pimps for each bag. Ideally I would like to have all four fill/drain independently without tying into the floor bag.

I have to buy the fittings for the IBS, so figured I would just do it right with 1" hose from the start.

So based on feedback, here's a thought with shopping list included.

1" hose to run from stern to bow
3/4" drain hose for each side of IBS (fills from the front, drains from each leg) I already have some, might even be enough!
New thru hull in bilge area, what size would you recommend if next year I use this to run ski locker and IBS?
T1200 pump to fill
Ball valve after thru hull before pump
T800 pump for the second 3/4" drain
3/4" drain thru hulls
1" fill bag fittings
3/4" drain bag fittings


I do like the idea of a reversible, but I think I can do all of this for less than the $150 and still have decent fill and drain times.

That was my thinking as to why I didn't mention reversible and such.

On the Mojo I have a dedicated reversible to the IBS, with a Vent to a separate thru hull, to it has a place to flow when the bag is full. This also serves as a vent for the air. Then I reverse the pump to drain it.

A little more pricey as you have to add a switch and the pump its self is more expensive.

The bright side is later you can add the pump, switch and resale the aerator style pumps on here to recoop some costs.

[sivs1]

Some updates,

Drain line plumbed in.
21887

Hull drilled for the thru-hull
21888

Let me tell you, access is tight, got the thru-hull in place and was a real bi... to get everything tightened down. Was fun trying to get the plumbing attached to run to the pumps.

As of right now, this thru-hull has one T1200 pump on it with a spot for a second, to maybe come later.... The hose is in, used 21 feet to get from the bilge area all the way to the bow. The only thing left is to put in the switch and get both fill and drain pumps wired up.

Plan for next year is to replace the sprinkler valve setup and run dedicated pumps to each bag. Sorry I don't have more pictures, just get so involved I forget to take them.

[mmandley]

Some updates,

Drain line plumbed in.
21887

Hull drilled for the thru-hull
21888

Let me tell you, access is tight, got the thru-hull in place and was a real bi... to get everything tightened down. Was fun trying to get the plumbing attached to run to the pumps.

As of right now, this thru-hull has one T1200 pump on it with a spot for a second, to maybe come later.... The hose is in, used 21 feet to get from the bilge area all the way to the bow. The only thing left is to put in the switch and get both fill and drain pumps wired up.

Plan for next year is to replace the sprinkler valve setup and run dedicated pumps to each bag. Sorry I don't have more pictures, just get so involved I forget to take them.

Sounds like your on your way to a much nicer ballast system. Did you put a shut off valve on that pump intake thru-hull?

[sivs1]

Absolutely...

[mmandley]

Just asking =) lol

I have seen some who don't and it scares me LOL. I have had to use mine before on my last boat when a hose came off. Nothing like putting her in the water and almost instantly the bilge comes on..

[rdlangston13]

I would love to add two more thru hulls and have reversible pumps on all of them


Sent from my iPhone

[sivs1]

Need Help on this one. Went out on the lake to test things out and get the engine oil hot so I could change it. Lake was empty and zero wind, so smooth as glass so of course ran WOT to heat things up. My IBS filled on its own just with the pressure of going 35 MPH. I am using the attwood T1200 pump. Any thoughts?

[brain_rinse]

Try routing the hose up as high as possible before coming back down to fill the bag. That "uphill" might be enough to prevent passive filling (it was for me.) Otherwise vented loop.

[sivs1]

Might have to consider a vented loop, the pump sits close to 10 inches above the thru-hull and has another uphill run up to the bag. bag was full and was starting to drain through the drain pump, a T500.

[996scott]

You might just have to close the valve if not in use?

[mmandley]

Are you sure your sprinkler valve isn't leaking by?

On my LSV the only time my center filed on its own is when my calves for dirty and wouldn't close completely.

[sivs1]

no sprinkler valve on this one. single T1200 right to the bag.

[mmandley]

That's why. Water forcing past the pump. Classic issue with areator pump.

[sivs1]

So am guessing a vented loop wouldn't fix it either, probably too much pressure. Is my only option to add a sprinkler valve?

[brain_rinse]

I told you to do the reversible... ;) I wouldn't put a sprinkler valve in... you're throwing good money after bad IMO. Are you sure the wiring of the pump is correct and that it wasn't running? I'm just surprised that passive filling would generate enough pressure to completely fill the bag and push past the drain pump!

[sivs1]

I told you to do the reversible... ;)

I know....

The wiring all worked just fine when it was tested in the driveway, I'll recheck it to make sure.

[sivs1]

Okay, this is going to sound bad, however since I am already over budget on this project for right now putting in a reversible pump is out of the question. So..... I am going to put in a sprinkler valve to get me through this summer with the plan to replace the whole system next winter with reversible pumps throughout. Plus when I do that I can repurpose the sprinkler valve into my new yard :)

The three fixes I was researching are: Reversible Pump ~ $200. Vented Loop ~$48. Sprinkler valve ~ $14.

Knowing my plan all a long was to replace the pumps and current sprinkler valve bottleneck during the off season, I figured I just really need a band aide to get me through this summer.

I know, I know.... I told you so.....

By the way, with the IBS full, and no other ballast, at 36 MPH the wake was almost as flat as my buddies MC X9, just something I learned from this whole thing and for any of those slalom skiers out there.

[mmandley]

Could go the $0 and just shut the valve when not in use..Just saying LOL.

[bergermaister]

Hold on now - here's a cheap experiment to see if it will resolve your problem.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-PLASTIC-INLET-VENTED-LOOP-FOR-MARINE-BOAT-TOILET-HEAD-FIVE-OCEANS-/291283660376?hash=item43d1dbee58&vxp=mtr

Just don't tell anyone it's for a sh!tter if they ask. If needed I bet you can find it in 1" as well.

[sivs1]

hmmm, there is a 1"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PLASTIC-OUTLET-VENTED-LOOP-MARINE-BOAT-TOILET-HEAD-FIVE-OCEANS-/281484478701?vxp=mtr&hash=item4189c848ed

will be about $5 shipped, might have to experiment on this one...

[sivs1]

Got the vented loop installed and the switch all wired in over the weekend. I have not water tested it yet, so am hoping the vented loop solves my problem of passive filling. Forgot to take any pictures of it all and now boat is back in storage.

[sivs1]

Water tested and vented loop works about 90% of the time to prevent passive filling of the IBS. Some things I have learned on this project.
1. Its going take longer then expected
2. It will be harder than expected
3. Wiring everything into the existing switch panel to make all four switches look stock is more complicated than expected
4. The T1200 pump is great at filling a 550 bag, it's a lot faster than I expected
5. I originally only installed one drain pump, due to the shape of the IBS water never fully drained from the bag, added a second pump on the other leg and now the results of draining are better than expected
6. I am glad Home Depot is close by as I had the privilege of visiting many times

Overall I am very happy with the end results of this project. One thing I noticed that if the IBS is full and all other bags are empty, the ski wake is super flat.

So now my overall setup is:
Rear lockers - 800lbs each side
Ski locker - ~400lbs
IBS - ~550lbs

Even playing around yesterday on the water my surf wave was fantastic with hardly any weight, I can't wait to fill everything up.