Raptor 400 VS 450

[Hayden]

My dealer told me that he hasn't sold a single 575. I don't know if he meant "ever" but he did make a point of commenting on it when we were discussing the motor options on the Makai. Do we have anyone active on the forum who has a 575?

[dakota4ce]

nah. the 575 is badass. the 450 is just a tuned 400

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[UNSTUCK]

Ok. Well that actually makes no sense whatsoever that the 400 was stronger than the 450 in a test. “I assume the same prop” may need closer inspection?

They both had what Moomba wants to call the "high altitude prop". Unless they changed it between 2019 and 2020 who knows.

The 450 is a stronger motor....that’s not really up for debate. However, the debate really centers on if someone wants it or needs it. Right?

There's no debate that on paper the 450 makes more power after a certain RPM. I haven't seen any independent dyno test reports to confirm that's the case in real life though. Keep in mind that engine power is not linear. As I recall from the charts I've seen, at least with the 400 vs 440 they make the same power in the usable RPM range. Once you started getting outside the desired RPM range, the 440 pulled ahead in power. My seat of the pants test failed to confirm that the 450 has more power and showed me it is not needed. Someone may still want it though.

Finally—less weight in the bow? So the setup wasn’t the same?
Just trying to make sense of the seat of the pants science.

It wasn't the same, but it was in favor of the 450. As you know, a heavy boat will benefit from having more bow weight when trying to get to speed. The 450 had a 700 pound bag in the bow. We topped out at about 11.2mph. We then added a "240" pound person sitting on the forward gunwale of the bow. This was required to get the boat to 12mph.
The 400 had a 1000 pound bag mostly full in the bow walkway with no one at all in the bow. This moved the weight a bit more rearward which should have made it a bit more difficult to get to speed. There was no issue getting to 12mph on the first try.

The seat of the pants science is the only thing we can go off of. Indmar can state anything they want in their advertising as far as power goes, or anything for that matter. Who is going to contest it? I'm not saying that's what they do, just that they can. No one is going to engine dyno their set up and see for sure what power it's putting out. Testing the same model boat with different power ratings is the only thing we can do to really see if they are different. This is what I did and what I reported on. I came to my own conclusion that the 450 in a Max is a wasted set up. You know of my struggles with low power at elevation and the things I've either done or wanted to do to correct it. So you know how important it is to me to verify a boat is powerful enough for me. I went from thinking a 450 Max was our next boat to being perfectly happy with the 400. Then mamma shot the Max down all together and we bought another Tige.

[dakota4ce]

They both had what Moomba wants to call the "high altitude prop". Unless they changed it between 2019 and 2020 who knows.



There's no debate that on paper the 450 makes more power after a certain RPM. I haven't seen any independent dyno test reports to confirm that's the case in real life though. Keep in mind that engine power is not linear. As I recall from the charts I've seen, at least with the 400 vs 440 they make the same power in the usable RPM range. Once you started getting outside the desired RPM range, the 440 pulled ahead in power. My seat of the pants test failed to confirm that the 450 has more power and showed me it is not needed. Someone may still want it though.



It wasn't the same, but it was in favor of the 450. As you know, a heavy boat will benefit from having more bow weight when trying to get to speed. The 450 had a 700 pound bag in the bow. We topped out at about 11.2mph. We then added a "240" pound person sitting on the forward gunwale of the bow. This was required to get the boat to 12mph.
The 400 had a 1000 pound bag mostly full in the bow walkway with no one at all in the bow. This moved the weight a bit more rearward which should have made it a bit more difficult to get to speed. There was no issue getting to 12mph on the first try.

The seat of the pants science is the only thing we can go off of. Indmar can state anything they want in their advertising as far as power goes, or anything for that matter. Who is going to contest it? I'm not saying that's what they do, just that they can. No one is going to engine dyno their set up and see for sure what power it's putting out. Testing the same model boat with different power ratings is the only thing we can do to really see if they are different. This is what I did and what I reported on. I came to my own conclusion that the 450 in a Max is a wasted set up. You know of my struggles with low power at elevation and the things I've either done or wanted to do to correct it. So you know how important it is to me to verify a boat is powerful enough for me. I went from thinking a 450 Max was our next boat to being perfectly happy with the 400. Then mamma shot the Max down all together and we bought another Tige.

Indeed I am familiar with your ways.

So the boats weren’t even the same year? That then invites transmission ratio into the party.

Anyway, I really don’t care. Your tests aren’t much good for the general public to consume, and they ultimately ended up not mattering to you anyway.

Any sound/logical test putting a 450 vs a 400 would always show a 450 being the stronger result. Yours actually showed the opposite.

Unless Indmar is possibly lying as you seem to be hinting at?

Enjoy your Tige!


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[dakota4ce]

2 different year boats, 2 unknown props, 2 different transmission ratios, very possibly two totally different ballast setups (3200 vs 4000 vs who knows), and two different above seat bow ballast setups, and possible false manufacturer information.

One clear winner.

Got it.




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[Prospersigman]

Do we have anyone active on the forum who has a 575?

We have several people on the forum with the 575...I happen to be one although I wouldn't have purchased it if I hadn't gotten a stupid good deal on it.

[larry_arizona]

A supercharger absolutely makes sense for high elevations. But highly overkill for flatlanders.

That said, if money was no object, I would get the 575 because I could.

But I do think it hurts resale unless you are in the mountains. It just adds to the sticker shock and narrows your buying audience.


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[TXSurf4]

My dealer told me that he hasn't sold a single 575. I don't know if he meant "ever" but he did make a point of commenting on it when we were discussing the motor options on the Makai. Do we have anyone active on the forum who has a 575?

My dealer does not spec their "stock" SEs with anything less than a 575 and they sell them all. Now if you get your own build slot with them I assume you can get it with the 450 which is what I would do. Not really sure why they spec the 575 as elevation is not a concern for us but that is what they do.

[larry_arizona]

My dealer does not spec their "stock" SEs with anything less than a 575 and they sell them all. Now if you get your own build slot with them I assume you can get it with the 450 which is what I would do. Not really sure why they spec the 575 as elevation is not a concern for us but that is what they do.

Because everything is bigger in Texas!!!!


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[dakota4ce]

575s are so damned awesome. I would take one in SL or SE every time.


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