Trayson's 2008 XLV ballast system upgrade

[jasonwm]

I'm following this thread, I don't want to derail it, but am curious if what I am thinking would work. Right now I have the GIII system but with upgraded bags all running off the standard single pump and sprinkler valves.

Here's what I'm thinking, if I replace the sprinkler valves and single pump with three of these pumps; http://www.amazon.com/Attwood-Corpor...s=tsunami+pump

Can I use the single thru hull intake? do I need an intake for each pump?

At this point I am trying to piece this together as funds are available. Having a baby and building a house all while trying to make my GIII system better.

Thanks for you input

Read these two articles we have regarding upgrades to the 2002-2008 Gravity III system, I think they'll be beneficial for you:

1. 2002-2008 Moomba Gravity III Ballast Upgrades
2. Pre-09 Moomba Ballast Upgrade Options

We've been upgrading these boats since 2005, and have pioneered most of what you see people doing on the forum, so I'm completely confident saying we have the most knowledge and experience out there.

Is this what you suggest then? I am actually thinking about something similar to this but with the 1 1/8" hardware and the 1" hose instead of constricting myself back down to 3/4... Thoughts?

Yep, we even offer a 1" version: http://www.wakemakers.com/attwood-12...k-connect.html

First off, I found out that there's two styles of Tsunami pumps. The ones on ebay and amazon are typically the ones that have the weird 1 1/8 thread that you can't find hardly anything to mate up with. The ones that wakemakers sells are a smidge more expensive, but they have the inlet that's 1" NPT and that's TOTALLY worth it because it'll screw directly into a 1" ball valve or an elbow or whatever typical plumbing stuff you're using from the thru hull.

What I found is that our Factory intake is a "scupper" and would have forced water into the pumps even when they were turned off.

I chose to go with dedicated thru-hulls for each of my 3 pumps. I could have possibly gone with fewer and a Tee, but I wanted to do it right from the start.

I am finding that had I gone with reversible, it would have most certainly made for an easier install. I'm still okay with my decision, because I do think I'll still have a faster system in the end, but the cost difference between reversible and aerators (if you're upgrading your hoses and everything) starts to narrow. especially when you have to make trips to the plumbing store for more pieces. The factory thru-hull with the scupper could be reused with a reversible pump.

The pumps off ebay and amazon with the 1 1/8 on the intake are fine for your drain pumps though.

I chose to have separate thru hulls for my drain and vent also, because it was cheaper to buy another thru-hull than to buy a Tee and a check valve.


Honestly it's hard to piece together an upgrade because I've found that if you simply upgrade to 3 pumps, you'll have to deal with the scupper forcing water through them when off (i.e. new thru hulls or grinding off the fins of the scupper) and you'll also have to deal with whether the 3/4" thru hull is really enough for 3 pumps at once. Then you're hooking 3/4" hose to the pumps... If you ever decide to go to larger diameter hose (1" or 1 1/8") then you're possibly having to replace some of the fittings you just bought.

I did contemplate going with 1" lines on the fill side and then 3/4 on the drain side, because then I could reuse a lot of my 3/4" bag fittings and stuff on the drain side and save a little bit of money that way... But in the end, I'm leaning towards going with bigger lines all around, even if it means I'm blowing a little more money on the front end.

Trayson is starting to experience why it makes sense to go with reversible pumps for a lot of people. You gain a dedicated vent/overflow and don't have to do ANY work for that functionality, and fitting everything in the boat is much easier.

The factory scooper can be removed a couple different ways. One way is to use piano wire to cut thru the adhesive. Another way, which I did, is to set up a 'puller' to pull the scooper free. I placed a piece of threaded rod thru the center of the scooper. In the bilge area, I placed a large washer and nut. On the bottom of the boat, I placed a spreader bar, washer and nut across two short pieces of wood, which sat on both sides of the scooper. Tightening the nut pulled the scooper towards the spreader bar, and broke it free from the adhesive.

Careful here, the factory intake has screws that secure it in place to prevent it from rotating. If you remove that fitting and replace it with a standard mushroom intake you'll have four exposed holes in the hull that need to be dealt with. Ideally they should be filled and gelcoat matched, although we've had some customers just apply sealant to the screws and run them back in place, which would probably be fine.

Regardless, that's why we suggest cutting the scupper off, which has basically been accepted as the standard practice by everyone since we started recommending it.

So is that a drain? Shouldn't it be on the low side? On the back side of the bag..

When the boat is stationary in the water, the front of the bag actually is the lowest point. That's typically how the boat will be when you're trying to get the bags completely flat at the end of the day, and from a packaging standpoint it's much easier to put the pump there than it is between the bag and transom.

[trayson]

QUESTION:

There is factory wiring in the bilge for each of the (3) actuators on the sprinkler valves and also another wire that goes to the (1) factory fill pump.

I assume that things are wired from the factory so that the fill pump turns "on" with any of the 3 switches and the sprinkler valves turn "on" (open) with EACH of the 3 switches.

So I'm thinking as I rewire the factory wiring to my new 3 fill pumps that I'd simply use the sprinkler valve wiring to power each of the pumps, and the factory wiring for the OEM fill pump would go unused?

Does that sound right?

[trayson]

Yep, we even offer a 1" version: http://www.wakemakers.com/attwood-12...k-connect.html

Oh, cool. Spencer couldn't find that SKU when I was on the phone with him this morning! Thanks for the link. (I was just going to make my own, but I'm down to buy yours if it saves me a buck or two, haha)



I'll read those articles tonight.

[jasonwm]

QUESTION:

There is factory wiring in the bilge for each of the (3) actuators on the sprinkler valves and also another wire that goes to the (1) factory fill pump.

I assume that things are wired from the factory so that the fill pump turns "on" with any of the 3 switches and the sprinkler valves turn "on" (open) with EACH of the 3 switches.

So I'm thinking as I rewire the factory wiring to my new 3 fill pumps that I'd simply use the sprinkler valve wiring to power each of the pumps, and the factory wiring for the OEM fill pump would go unused?

Does that sound right?

Check the gauge of wire on the solenoids, I don't know what it is off the top of my head, but we don't suggest using it, so I'm guessing that's because it's relatively small. You need to be able to support 5A of current without significant V drop, so you can run the math on that based on the AWG you measure. If it's sufficient by all means go that route.

Oh, cool. Spencer couldn't find that SKU when I was on the phone with him this morning! Thanks for the link. (I was just going to make my own, but I'm down to buy yours if it saves me a buck or two, haha)

I'll read those articles tonight.

Haha, I'll have to give Spence a hard time about that!

[kaneboats]

Several folks on here have successfully run one Tsunami off the sprinkler lead with no problems.

[jasonwm]

Has any one calc'd the V drop? Just because the pump runs doesn't mean it's operating at maximum capacity.

[trayson]

[gregski]

Has any one calc'd the V drop? Just because the pump runs doesn't mean it's operating at maximum capacity.

What gauge wire is used for those lines? If it's 20AWG for example, you have about 0.033 ohm/m. Let's guess 3m of wire, so 0.1 ohm. I don't know how much current those draw at 14V but it's fused for 5A so we can calculate using that which will definitely be worst case. V=5*0.1 = 0.5V. So you would lose 0.5V based on those assumptions which probably isn't too bad of a deal.

[bergermaister]

What gauge wires came on the pump pigtails? Why not keep it simple and match that. Bet it's at least 16ga.

Or you could steel some wiring out of an amp installation kit just to be safe.

[gregski]

Bet it's at least 16ga.

16ga is 0.013 ohm/m. So the same calculation would result in a 0.2V drop.