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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Posts
    698

    Default Using Zero Off GPS on the river - 22 Mojo

    Hey all, I'd appreciate some help understanding how best to use Zero Off GPS. I was kind of on the fence about selecting this feature when shopping in 2021 but with 2022 it became base equipment. We tow quite a bit and boat on lakes, reservoirs and rivers. The first few times we were out, we were just on our local lake and things worked great. This past weekend, we went to the Mississippi, so this was the first time we've really used the boat in any real type of current. The current where we were was about 1.2 mph and the only way to achieve a clean surfable wave was to manually adjust our set speed of 11.4 to 12.6 going downstream and 10.2 going upstream (offsetting 1.2 mph for the current speed). Is there some "river mode" setting that I'm not seeing?

    I also have the Paddlewheel backup (Paddlewheel, Depth Finder, Water Temp) option on my boat. Is there any way to switch between the GPS speed control and paddlewheel? I believe with the backup, it will switch if it sees variance of speed over a certain amount and time. I'm not sure. None of this is called out in the display or boat manual. Side note - inclinometer and draft sensor calibration instructions are called out in the display menu for those that have wondered how to do those.

    Our favorite place to surf is a certain stretch of river that we typically go back and forth on so it's kind of a pain to constantly change set speed depending on direction... especially with everything else going on (and math is hard on weekends :P).

    I appreciate any insight you all might have. If there isn't anything embedded in the software... this would be a great add!

    On a similar note, on the ride back to the dock (about 10 miles), I noticed that my actual and set speeds did not match, the maps screen was just blank white and the satellite status showed 0 (I think it showed 12~16 earlier in the day). When I got back to the dock, we power cycled the battery switch and things went back to working. I'm assuming something errored out on the Zero-Off system and my backup paddle wheel took over? I never saw any error messages.

    Thanks!
    2022 Moomba Mojo
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5 (sold)

    Tow - 2019 Ford F150 Ecoboost

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Posts
    698

    Default

    It's not often I hear crickets on this forum... are there not many folks using ZeroOff pre 2022? Does my post not make sense?
    2022 Moomba Mojo
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5 (sold)

    Tow - 2019 Ford F150 Ecoboost

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Hockley, Tx
    Posts
    986

    Default

    It makes sense and there are tons of us using ZeroOff GPS but I feel like most people are boating on lakes so current speeds are not a concern. There are a few guys on here that do surf on rivers but they aren't on here as much as they used to be. That being said I think there is a river mode somewhere in the settings but IIRC it is something where you have to tell it each time you turn and head in the other direction whether that is with or against the current. If that is the case it might just be easier to adjust your set speed each time as opposed to having to access the settings menu each time. I will be at my boat on Friday and can poke around in the menu to see if it is actually there.
    2019 Makai
    Raptor 450 w/ 1.76 Trans
    WakeMakers 1350s in the rear & 1K in Lead

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    South Georgia
    Posts
    1,367

    Default

    There was a post about this several months ago. I can't recall what it was called, but there were MANY comments and explanations of physics and relativity involved. It was like being back in a Highschool science class LOL! I think there was some discussion about paddlewheel being a better use for rivers, but I don't recall how to "command" the boat to use one over the other. Maybe someone else will recall the discussion.

    Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
    2021 Moomba Makai
    Black Cherry Metal Flake & Fire Red
    Nibral OJ 15.5x15 Altitude/Wake prop w/1.76 trans v-drive
    Wet Sounds bow speakers & 10's on the Tower & ported sub

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Ft Gibson Lake OK
    Posts
    310

    Default

    Paddle wheel works the best on the river, but to my knowledge Moomba doesnt have a way to switch to a river mode only Supra. Yes your method is correct for a GPS system you have to offset for the current flow in order for the wave or wake to be correct. So up river it feels like the boat isnt moving, down river it feels like your flying relative to the bank. Kind of a pain to check the current flow and off set each time but thats really the only nice way to make it happen with a GPS system. Most people if they know they are going to be on the river the majority of the time wont order a boat with zero off for that reason.
    2021 Makai

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Posts
    698

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RUGER761 View Post
    Paddle wheel works the best on the river, but to my knowledge Moomba doesnt have a way to switch to a river mode only Supra. Yes your method is correct for a GPS system you have to offset for the current flow in order for the wave or wake to be correct. So up river it feels like the boat isnt moving, down river it feels like your flying relative to the bank. Kind of a pain to check the current flow and off set each time but thats really the only nice way to make it happen with a GPS system. Most people if they know they are going to be on the river the majority of the time wont order a boat with zero off for that reason.
    Yeah, I was on the fence about it - but with it becoming the base option in 2022 the decision was made for me. It sure seems like this Supra feature should be brought to Moomba with us not really having a choice of what we wanted... and I'd opted to add the backup paddlewheel assuming it could be used (not sure what it's doing now besides plugging a hole in the boat lol)
    2022 Moomba Mojo
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5 (sold)

    Tow - 2019 Ford F150 Ecoboost

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    966

    Default

    If you don't have river mode but have all the hardware and this is the new standard from Skier's, I would be calling and asking about software updates to make this work.

    Yes, you can adjust but for the cost of these why should you have to. Adding a button to switch between 2 different inputs for speed is not a big change to the overall programming.
    2015 Moomba Mojo Surf Edition
    4,000lbs
    Manual Flow

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Ft Gibson Lake OK
    Posts
    310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uniwarking View Post
    .... and I'd opted to add the backup paddlewheel assuming it could be used (not sure what it's doing now besides plugging a hole in the boat lol)
    Its a triducer so its a depth finder, temp sensor and paddlewheel all it one. So while its there not sure if its even functional or not, wired up to work. That's a question for Moomba engineers on that one.
    2021 Makai

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Posts
    698

    Default

    Here are the options currently on the builder, and the one I selected:

    Depth Finder and Water Temp (No Paddlewheel) +$360
    Paddlewheel backup (Paddlewheel, Depth Finder,Water Temp) +$400
    Paddlewheel backup (Paddlewheel Only) +$290
    2022 Moomba Mojo
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5 (sold)

    Tow - 2019 Ford F150 Ecoboost

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Hockley, Tx
    Posts
    986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RUGER761 View Post
    Its a triducer so its a depth finder, temp sensor and paddlewheel all it one. So while its there not sure if its even functional or not, wired up to work. That's a question for Moomba engineers on that one.
    So here is a post Matt Brown made a while back that would lead me to believe that if you have a paddle wheel present it is wired up as a back up to the GPS

    "hey guys! Its me again, Matt Brown. I have been trying to keep up with this chain and I have noticed there are lots of confusion about some of the new 2022 Moomba software features. So to try and help, I will go back to my old "tips of the day" where hopefully I can give you guys some info in easily digestible sections. So, without further ado....

    Random tips of the day (2022 Moomba software) - paddlewheel fault

    In the post above, you will notice one of the new features is a new "paddlewheel fault". We call it that on our development pages in the software. As you can see, when this "fault" occurs, it shows up on the screen as a small icon on the bottom right that reads "Cruise disabled - No vessel speed". The reason we added this logic is because for 2022 ZeroOff is standard and the paddlewheel is optional. In the past, if you had ZeroOff then you still had paddlewheel as a backup if you lost GPS. However, without paddlewheel backup, we had to add logic in case you lost GPS. While very unlikely, if you did lose vessel speed and cruise was engaged, it might be possible for the engine to increase rpm to try and maintain a vessel speed that was not present. So, the way the new logic works is it is constantly monitoring rpm and vessel speed. The default settings are if the engine is on, and the RPM is going over 1800 and if the system sees a 0.0 speed for at least 50 milliseconds, then the system will turn off cruise, give you the popup and reduce RPM to 80% of the RPM that the engine is currently running. However, there are a few times when you might need to adjust these settings. For example, if you are running paddlewheel only, then it might be possible for the system to "lose signal" for 50 ms. That is a very fast period. If you have this popup, you might want to go into the development pages and adjust that setting from 50ms to 150 ms or maybe longer. Every paddlewheel is different but if you have to adjust it higher than 250ms (1/4 of a second), then you might need to replace your paddlewheel. Another situation that might not need adjustment, but rather education is if you turn on engine and immediately try to accelerate. The GPS puck is powered from the ignition circuit. So, it takes about 30 seconds from the time you turn key on for the GPS puck to lock in on speed. If you turn key on and immediately accelerate, it is possible that the system might not lock in GPS speed and in that case, it would not engage cruise because it sees 0.0. In that case, watching the screen can show you that. If you accelerate and the speed shows 0.0, then you are definitely going to get that popup. In that case, you might just need to wait a few seconds longer before you accelerate. The truth is you wouldn't want cruise to engage like that anyways. Not sure if you have ever seen this, but we have had that feedback before of the boat accelerates, then cruise takes over and the engine slows way down. That can happen for the same reason. If you accelerate with no speed, then speed kicks in, it can make the cruise feel very awkward for a little bit.

    Ok, hope that helps. If you are not familiar with the "development pages", then ask your dealer for help. They can adjust these settings for you if necessary. In the next few days I will try to write up similar tips for "Leak detection" and "Autofill". These seem to be very confusing for some people but I think once you guys understand it, you will love these new features. Hope you guys and girls are having a great summer!!"
    2019 Makai
    Raptor 450 w/ 1.76 Trans
    WakeMakers 1350s in the rear & 1K in Lead

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