2022 Mojo vs 2017 Nautique G23 and 2017 Mastercraft x23 - for surfing

[sandm]

I can tell you there is currently zero depreciation on a 2021 so far, perhaps equity versus price paid at this point


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these prices can't sustain. at some point as tommy mentions the market is going to fall. I don't see it crashing but there is a market correction that needs to happen or a few years of zero price increases which will impact everyone.

[benny32]

Mastercraft would be out for me, two reasons.

1) Ugly ass tower
2) bow rise is high when surfing.


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We have friends with a x23 and we a morning on my Makai and the afternoon on his x23 and the bow rise was nuts in comparison. Driver has to almost stand at the helm to see over the bow. My Makai I sit comfortably, don't even need the booster, and can see over the bow. I know that might not be a primary driver but it looked super annoying.

[larry_arizona]

these prices can't sustain. at some point as tommy mentions the market is going to fall. I don't see it crashing but there is a market correction that needs to happen or a few years of zero price increases which will impact everyone.

I don’t disagree, but with 22’s so much higher than 21’s and likely 1-2 more years of price creep, those in 20-21’s will be price sheltered.


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[sandm]

I don’t disagree, but with 22’s so much higher than 21’s and likely 1-2 more years of price creep, those in 20-21’s will be price sheltered.

will be interesting to see how the market is in mid2022. there's currently over 700 2022boats for sale from all brands on onlyinboards which tells me that no one is a sellout for '22 at the manufacturer level(pockets of dealers are out, I know this) but as the market moves into '22 having unsold build slots will push dealers into deals which then starts to deflate the used market.
you are correct I think that it'll take a year for it to all sort out.
said it before but would love to have access to the data Ian has on onlyinboards as it relates to days on market and listings by brand/year. TONS of data there that speaks to the overall health of the wakeboat market.

[larry_arizona]

will be interesting to see how the market is in mid2022. there's currently over 700 2022boats for sale from all brands on onlyinboards which tells me that no one is a sellout for '22 at the manufacturer level(pockets of dealers are out, I know this) but as the market moves into '22 having unsold build slots will push dealers into deals which then starts to deflate the used market.
you are correct I think that it'll take a year for it to all sort out.
said it before but would love to have access to the data Ian has on onlyinboards as it relates to days on market and listings by brand/year. TONS of data there that speaks to the overall health of the wakeboat market.

This high inflation will kick the boat markets a$$, it will curb stomp disposable income.

I have no doubt the boat market will stall soon, but I don’t ever see new MSRP’s dropping or discounts getting to 30-40% off MSRP.


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[sandm]

This high inflation will kick the boat markets a$$, it will curb stomp disposable income.

I have no doubt the boat market will stall soon, but I don’t ever see new MSRP’s dropping or discounts getting to 30-40% off MSRP.

not sure about that. our last tige we bought in 2020 had an msrp of 112k and we paid 82. we all know that both tige and dealer made a buck. that's 27% off and it was at the start of this frenzy. the discounts have pushed in the 20%+ on a lot of lines pre covid and I suspect we will see 30% in 2023 OR you will see a reduction in staffing and total boats built by year will shrink. likely some brand consolidations or manuf. thinning out the available models. they may not drop msrp's but they can kill off the SA and replace with the SA2 with an msrp lower and a few less costly "standard" features.
tige killed off the z3 and created the r23. same hull. same engine. same tower. same layout. less costly vinyl and a few missing options at a cheaper msrp. others have done similar.

[KnoxMojo]

not sure about that. our last tige we bought in 2020 had an msrp of 112k and we paid 82. we all know that both tige and dealer made a buck. that's 27% off and it was at the start of this frenzy. the discounts have pushed in the 20%+ on a lot of lines pre covid and I suspect we will see 30% in 2023 OR you will see a reduction in staffing and total boats built by year will shrink. likely some brand consolidations or manuf. thinning out the available models. they may not drop msrp's but they can kill off the SA and replace with the SA2 with an msrp lower and a few less costly "standard" features.
tige killed off the z3 and created the r23. same hull. same engine. same tower. same layout. less costly vinyl and a few missing options at a cheaper msrp. others have done similar.

Skiers Choice already has a budget level SA, it is called the Max or Mojo. I really don't see Supra killing off any model except maybe the SR, especially not the flagship SA. Back when Tige did that with the Z3, they didn't really offer a budget line, kinda like Malibu came out with the V-Ride for entry level. Skiers entry level that keeps adding value is Moomba, that is by design to keep their premium line more exclusive.

I do agree we will start seeing bigger discounts off MSRP as compared to last year, used market stays red hot.

[sandm]

Skiers Choice already has a budget level SA, it is called the Max or Mojo. I really don't see Supra killing off any model except maybe the SR, especially not the flagship SA. Back when Tige did that with the Z3, they didn't really offer a budget line, kinda like Malibu came out with the V-Ride for entry level. Skiers entry level that keeps adding value is Moomba, that is by design to keep their premium line more exclusive.

I do agree we will start seeing bigger discounts off MSRP as compared to last year, used market stays red hot.

agreed but was only pointing out that a manuf. doesn't have to go backwards on msrp but rather kill off a model and replace with a like that cost less. I bet back 12 years ago we all would have said supra will never kill off the launch22ssv as that was the meat of sales and look where we are today. back in the late 00's the sante220/230 were the crown jewels. it's the g today but who knows where it will be in another 5 years. x-star was the ruler and now it's barely a blip on mc's radar for sales. supra will move on at some point when the market dictates pricing is out of reach. whether they call it the SA or some other new name, evolving and rebranding has kept them at the top of the game and hope they don't get complacent.

[KnoxMojo]

Yeah, they start up new models going forward, not backward. The next versions will be even better and more expensive. Lol.

[SONIC]

Yeah, they start up new models going forward, not backward. The next versions will be even better and more expensive. Lol.

I think that's his point is that they won't.
They are likely to be more budget friendly options rather than fancier and more expensive.
We're seeing nice boats getting up to and well above 1/4 million dollars at this point, all of which has happened in the last 10 years.

I don't see the average income increasing nearly as fast as the price of wake boats, so in my eyes at some point they are all going to price themselves out. The ONLY reason they haven't already is because as prices increased banks followed suit and allowed longer and longer loans.

Realistically the only reason 90% of "owners" afford a wake boat at all these days is the fact that you can finance it for so damn long. But it's already 20 year financing, I don't see how anyone could justify going to 30 but who knows I said the same thing about 15yr financing on toys.