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  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,948

    Default Kaiyen has no push

    Quote Originally Posted by Cylee View Post
    When I'm surfing (220lbs) just the wife and two kids in the boat. They total about 250. Sometimes we have the dog for 30 more.
    You are at roughly 8900# boat weight. If your crew is going to be that light as a norm, you need at least 1000# to start to get a big push and 1500 would be impressive.

    start with 1000# of lead and go from there.

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    Last edited by larry_arizona; 07-22-2021 at 08:50 PM.
    2021 Supra SA 400
    2018 Supra SA 400 (SOLD)
    Michigan

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    7

    Default

    I hear ya. We trailer so I'm not looking to add any more lead. And we don't seem to have the same issues as the initial poster with push. My family surfs fine with just the 500lbs of lead.

  3. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Schlanseay View Post
    Thank you, Iíve read about the 15ft as well. We have three other Moombas that all surf the same depths some even shallower, one Max and a couple Makaiís. Figure our Kaiyen should be able to as well. We dont use autowake, we only flip it on to check where numbers are at then flip it off. What was your mondo like out of the box to inform you to weight the bow and rear?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Do you know what the other boats are running for extra weight and as Ralphy notes if they are doing anything different speed wise etc? Just a thought might be worth picking their brains if nothing else to help figure out what they did vs stock. We ride with a light crew typically (spotter and driver max 300lbs if that but I am not asking my wife or mother what they weigh) and yes you can surf it but I think you might be suffering from less than ideal depth and light crew killing your push. Watching the wake 9 video for the mondo we just tried to replicate it as best we could, the 500 plus lbs in the bow (they used 500 but we go more as it is not all the way forward) and the extra 400lbs in the back on the floor to make up for the light crew although we do ride it with a larger crew sometimes because as larry notes more displacement the better. If I were you I would see if you can get your hands on some more weight and or people ballast and see if that helps you out, if possible try it on a deeper lake just to see how much that is impacting you. As sandm and others have noted these boats typically like more weight than stock ballast provides , not to say that you can't surf it stock but it will be harder with less push in less than perfect conditions. We don't do lead just because our launch is shallow and I don't want to have to load lead in and out every time plus we have the single axle trailer.
    2021 Moomba Mondo (waiting for open water)

    2018 Yamaha 212x (SOLD)

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cylee View Post
    I hear ya. We trailer so I'm not looking to add any more lead. And we don't seem to have the same issues as the initial poster with push. My family surfs fine with just the 500lbs of lead.
    I mixed up OP and your set up.

    Regardless, Kaiyen will benefit from more weight.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2021 Supra SA 400
    2018 Supra SA 400 (SOLD)
    Michigan

  5. #15

    Default

    Sounds Like I need some lead or ballast bags for more weight and increasing my roll from -1 ish to at least -2


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  6. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cylee View Post
    We got a 21 Kaiyen and have had zero issues getting a great wave for surfing. Did drop in 500 lbs of lead in the rear lockers but it worked without the lead as well. Still recommend the lead as you can then get more weight in the back so the front bag will actually fill up while still achieving the pitch. I use autowake and tweak the pitch and roll to maximize the amount of ballast the boat can hold. Usually around 8.5 to 9.5 pitch. -2 roll. Prefer to put the wake plate at 0 but it always moves back to 25 for some reason after picking a rider back up. Using the default settings for surf plates which is 60 or 70. I did have to burp the bags initially. Have checked since and haven't needed to burp again.
    This is helpful thank you, I may not be getting enough roll, we were around -1 to -1.5. Some Kaiyen owners say they like it around -3 to -4 even


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  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    85

    Default

    With our Kaiyen, we've noticed that if you try to tune for amplitude you actually get less push than setting up a nice long wave. When I surf, it's just my wife and two young kids in the boat for a generous combined weight of 200 lbs after a few breakfast tacos. We have 700 lbs of lead in the boat evenly spread throughout... so we're at ~9k combined weight all in.

    We've ditched autowake and the regular footed surf setup I've been using lately is:

    11mph
    0% wakeplate
    45% starboard surf plate (Flow 3)
    100% Front / 100% Port / 90% Starboard

    Sorry for the crappy video screenshot, but it's a pretty fun wave with good push:



    If wife turns to the right slightly while surfing, the wave stacks! So I'm going to try adding a little more roll into the equation if I ever get a chance to fool around a bit more...

    The more people I have in the boat, I start adding a bit more surf plate and bumping up the speed.
    2020 Kaiyen

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rhouse181 View Post
    With our Kaiyen, we've noticed that if you try to tune for amplitude you actually get less push than setting up a nice long wave. When I surf, it's just my wife and two young kids in the boat for a generous combined weight of 200 lbs after a few breakfast tacos. We have 700 lbs of lead in the boat evenly spread throughout... so we're at ~9k combined weight all in.

    We've ditched autowake and the regular footed surf setup I've been using lately is:

    11mph
    0% wakeplate
    45% starboard surf plate (Flow 3)
    100% Front / 100% Port / 90% Starboard

    Sorry for the crappy video screenshot, but it's a pretty fun wave with good push:



    If wife turns to the right slightly while surfing, the wave stacks! So I'm going to try adding a little more roll into the equation if I ever get a chance to fool around a bit more...

    The more people I have in the boat, I start adding a bit more surf plate and bumping up the speed.
    Looks awesome though!

    Suggestion - skip the tacos and get burritos next time!


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  9. #19

    Default

    Went out again today, had about 600lbs of people all on port side (surf side) and as far back as possible.

    Manual settings: front and port rear 100%, starboard was 85%, center plate 0%, surf plate 60%. Check autowake and pitch was 8.5 and roll was -2

    Turned on autowake it filled both rear bags to 100% and emptied the front to 40%. It achieved pitch 9.5 and roll to -3.5.

    The auto wake I could start to get a slight feel of push but nothing to actually ride still. It seemed like at one point the boat sped up and I could see the start board plate digging in, I usually canít see any difference when surfing from the plate being down. Does anyone have photos of the back of their Kaiyen surfing so I can see what it looks like on the side the surf plate is deployed on? I am starting to think my surf plates arenít doing the correct thing.


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  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Boating on Lake Martin, AL
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Turn off Autowake!! If you donít have a big crew itís just going to make it a pain to use Autowake and get a good wave. You can worry with Autowake later on when you have a big crew more consistently or when youíve added enough extra ballast.

    I know the Max is not the same as the Kaiyen but as a general rule it takes about 5k lbs of ballast on a Max before it comes alive to make a big, strong wave with plenty of push. With the Kaiyen being a little smaller I suspect it would take just slightly less ballast to also get a bug, strong wave with plenty of push.

    As mentioned, there is no replacement for displacement. You need to add some extra bags and or some lead.
    Last edited by haknslash; 07-25-2021 at 07:21 AM.
    2019 Moomba Max "MOOMBAE"
    Mods: Wakemakers upgrade + 500 lbs of lead
    2016 Yamaha AR192 - sold

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