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  1. #1

    Default Kaiyen has no push

    Got our Ď21 Kaiyen and the wave has zero push. Things Iíve tried

    Passenger Load: Wife and 7 yr old
    Water depth: ~15ft
    Surf Side: Port
    Things Iíve tried
    - Burped bags
    - fill all bags until overflow
    - Calibrated inclinometer
    - All bags 100%, all tried settings all on these ranges center plate 0-25, wake plate 40-90
    - Added 400lb fatsac to rear seat, same ranges as above, got pitch to 9 and roll to -1 to -2

    Nothing works, Iím an experience surfer on right sized board. Appearance wise the wave looks decent, just doesnít have any push.

    Any ideas? Iím pretty bummed and out of things to try.


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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Katy, TX
    Posts
    1,668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Schlanseay View Post
    Got our Ď21 Kaiyen and the wave has zero push. Things Iíve tried

    Passenger Load: Wife and 7 yr old
    Water depth: ~15ft
    Surf Side: Port
    Things Iíve tried
    - Burped bags
    - fill all bags until overflow
    - Calibrated inclinometer
    - All bags 100%, all tried settings all on these ranges center plate 0-25, wake plate 40-90
    - Added 400lb fatsac to rear seat, same ranges as above, got pitch to 9 and roll to -1 to -2

    Nothing works, Iím an experience surfer on right sized board. Appearance wise the wave looks decent, just doesnít have any push.

    Any ideas? Iím pretty bummed and out of things to try.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    https://youtu.be/NXx_nCSc3gc

    Sent from my Note9 using Tapatalk
    2017 Moomba Craz Surf Edition
    Flow 2.0 Surf System w/ AutoWakeô
    5,600 Lbs Ballast - Enzos + Lead + Sumo
    Wet Sounds REV10s + REVO12-XXX

  3. #3

    Default

    First off is it 15' or sub 15', the one thing we notice in our Mondo is that as our lake shallows up on the one end and we get into the 15' range it really impacts the wave and the waves push. Not certain this is your issue but it likely is not helping as 15' is on the lower end of water depths for a good wave with these boats from what I have read/experienced. Also when you are saying that the pitch and roll are hitting the target numbers is that with autowake left on as with your crew size and weight autowake would likely be draining the rear bags to try and hit your pitch numbers. Not the same boat I know but I would load that 400lbs in the bow and pick up another 400lbs for the back if you need more weight but that is just based on my Mondo experience but not a crazy difference in the boat sizes and same ballast. We put a 400lb bag on the floor as far up as it will go and then a 155lb on top in the bow and when running light crew like you are we throw another 400lb bag on the floor as far back as we can get it. Not sure if any of that helps but I hope you can get it dialed in.
    2021 Moomba Mondo (waiting for open water)

    2018 Yamaha 212x (SOLD)

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuds View Post
    First off is it 15' or sub 15', the one thing we notice in our Mondo is that as our lake shallows up on the one end and we get into the 15' range it really impacts the wave and the waves push. Not certain this is your issue but it likely is not helping as 15' is on the lower end of water depths for a good wave with these boats from what I have read/experienced. Also when you are saying that the pitch and roll are hitting the target numbers is that with autowake left on as with your crew size and weight autowake would likely be draining the rear bags to try and hit your pitch numbers. Not the same boat I know but I would load that 400lbs in the bow and pick up another 400lbs for the back if you need more weight but that is just based on my Mondo experience but not a crazy difference in the boat sizes and same ballast. We put a 400lb bag on the floor as far up as it will go and then a 155lb on top in the bow and when running light crew like you are we throw another 400lb bag on the floor as far back as we can get it. Not sure if any of that helps but I hope you can get it dialed in.
    Thank you, Iíve read about the 15ft as well. We have three other Moombas that all surf the same depths some even shallower, one Max and a couple Makaiís. Figure our Kaiyen should be able to as well. We dont use autowake, we only flip it on to check where numbers are at then flip it off. What was your mondo like out of the box to inform you to weight the bow and rear?


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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Henderson, NV
    Posts
    6,609

    Default

    my gut is with only 2 on the boat(7yo isn't even a cooler of weight) you need more weight. our old 22ft tige had upgraded 1500lbs in the rear and with only 2 of us on the boat, wave would look good but it sucked to ride. we needed 3-4 in the boat and an additional grand in weight to even begin.
    know it's not apples to apples but we came so close to purchasing a kaiyen and since it's usually just the 2 of us and 1 other couple, we had a grand in lead we were prepped to use.

    pitch/roll are part of the equation but you also need to displace more water and weight is the answer there. bet you run with 8 adults and same bag and it'll be AMAZING.
    '06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,948

    Default Kaiyen has no push

    No replacement for displacement.



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    Last edited by larry_arizona; 07-22-2021 at 06:51 PM.
    2021 Supra SA 400
    2018 Supra SA 400 (SOLD)
    Michigan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    7

    Default

    We got a 21 Kaiyen and have had zero issues getting a great wave for surfing. Did drop in 500 lbs of lead in the rear lockers but it worked without the lead as well. Still recommend the lead as you can then get more weight in the back so the front bag will actually fill up while still achieving the pitch. I use autowake and tweak the pitch and roll to maximize the amount of ballast the boat can hold. Usually around 8.5 to 9.5 pitch. -2 roll. Prefer to put the wake plate at 0 but it always moves back to 25 for some reason after picking a rider back up. Using the default settings for surf plates which is 60 or 70. I did have to burp the bags initially. Have checked since and haven't needed to burp again.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,948

    Default Kaiyen has no push

    Quote Originally Posted by Cylee View Post
    We got a 21 Kaiyen and have had zero issues getting a great wave for surfing. Did drop in 500 lbs of lead in the rear lockers but it worked without the lead as well. Still recommend the lead as you can then get more weight in the back so the front bag will actually fill up while still achieving the pitch. I use autowake and tweak the pitch and roll to maximize the amount of ballast the boat can hold. Usually around 8.5 to 9.5 pitch. -2 roll. Prefer to put the wake plate at 0 but it always moves back to 25 for some reason after picking a rider back up. Using the default settings for surf plates which is 60 or 70. I did have to burp the bags initially. Have checked since and haven't needed to burp again.
    What is your human crew weight typically with that 500# lead?

    For reference.

    21 Supra SA

    Surfs great at 10,200# total weight
    Surfs amazing at 10,700# total weight
    Surf wave is ridiculous at 11,600# weight

    My guess is a Kaiyen will rock a great wave at 10000# total weight
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by larry_arizona; 07-22-2021 at 07:08 PM.
    2021 Supra SA 400
    2018 Supra SA 400 (SOLD)
    Michigan

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    7

    Default

    When I'm surfing (220lbs) just the wife and two kids in the boat. They total about 250. Sometimes we have the dog for 30 more.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Schlanseay View Post
    Got our ‘21 Kaiyen and the wave has zero push. Things I’ve tried

    Passenger Load: Wife and 7 yr old
    Water depth: ~15ft
    Surf Side: Port
    Things I’ve tried
    - Burped bags
    - fill all bags until overflow
    - Calibrated inclinometer
    - All bags 100%, all tried settings all on these ranges center plate 0-25, wake plate 40-90
    - Added 400lb fatsac to rear seat, same ranges as above, got pitch to 9 and roll to -1 to -2

    Nothing works, I’m an experience surfer on right sized board. Appearance wise the wave looks decent, just doesn’t have any push.

    Any ideas? I’m pretty bummed and out of things to try.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Our lake has a shallow side as well. We used to avoid it as the loss of push was noticable. I read on an earlier post here that someone who surfed on a 15 ft slowed down to 9.9 mph, so I started messing around and settled on 10.2 mph with around 8.5-9 deg. pitch works great.
    I use 800# of lead and typically 3-5 peeps on the boat. At lower speed I try to stay no more than -1deg. roll. This is hard to maintain when the boat is loaded with people for some reason, so I just revert to factory settings when the boat is full. For reference total weight we surf is 9500 - to 10k#s.
    We have a Mondo, but Kayen isn't that much different. Hope it helps.
    2022 MB F22 Alpha
    2021 Mondo (sold)
    2020 Grand Island Fish
    2017 Sea-Doo Spark

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