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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
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    1,382

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayden View Post
    I agree that spending money on maxing out ballast is the first step. After that it's picking the options that give you the most fun on the water imo; shorter transitions and faster wave cleanup when swapping, seems like it would be really good. (All anecdotal evidence from researching/watching Moomba youtube videos all week.)
    Please accept my eyewitness accounts of it working. It does. Basically accomplishes what the swell 3.0 system accomplishes on the supra with a slightly different mechanical approach


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  2. #12

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    Thank you all for the answers.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Hockley, Tx
    Posts
    1,013

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    Quote Originally Posted by haknslash View Post
    Is it possible to retrofit the 3.0 tabs and actuators on a 2.0 flow boat?
    As far as an OEM retrofit to 3.0 no you are not able to through the dealers. I already asked mine and they contacted SC and were told no. Dakota and I have discussed a few other way to do it lol


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    2019 Makai
    Raptor 450 w/ 1.76 Trans
    WakeMakers 1350s in the rear & 1K in Lead

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Commerce Lake, MI
    Posts
    2,145

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    You could make it mechanical with a tie rod connected back up to the transom so as the plate goes down it pulls on a lever connected to the hinged portion of the plate to tip it down. Only down side doing it that way is that is would deploy in direct proportion to the amount of tab you use.


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    2017 Moomba Craz

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mn
    Posts
    705

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota4ce View Post
    A lot of misconception about there about what tabs and gates do.

    Yes 3.0 is worth it. It does not make a different shaped wave, or a larger wave.

    It introduces more yaw to the hull as it travels through the water. The main effect is that your wave face will be clean with less roll and true level weighting. You can switch the wave side to side—without moving weight—and have a clean wave face on both sides.

    That’s it. And it works.

    As for the addition of gates to tabs as mentioned above, this is really kinda what 3.0 does. Introduces MORE yaw. Yaw creates the “delayed convergence” more than the tab alters water flow. If that makes any sense.


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    Hmmm, don't mean to drag this out or be argumentative but about your Yaw comment. It's an interesting effect I had not considered.
    First, are you and engineer, hydraulics, boat designer? I truly am not being facetious, I honestly would like to know. I'm not, my deductions are based on loose research around forums and pure deductive reasoning. I'm not a hardheaded person and am always willing to learn.

    But, you mention Yaw being provided by the 3.0 tab design cleaning the wave lip. I'm just trying to understand how that occurs. Again, likely b/c I'm an engineering layman.
    This is the explanation I come up with. When surfing, what I have seen is that when the boat turns toward the side contralateral to the surf wave, even with mild turns, the wave lengthens and cleans up nicely. That would be equivalent to Yaw to the right if you're surfing regular. If the boat turns toward the surf side the wave shortens and gets all rough, so much that I have to surf closer to platform in order to not loose wave. That's equivalent to Yaw to left. I'm sure we're all familiar with this.
    So, if the 3.0 tab increases Yaw, it would be to the side ipsilateral to the tab, it would in effect cause the bow to point slightly to the right when surfing regular, so right side Yaw, similar to having the boat turn right. Is this what you are referring to? Did I get this right?

    I would think any tab deployed will cause some Yaw to the ipsilateral side. We see that when we're driving straight and we have to keep the boat from turning to the side of the deployed tab. That lip on the 3.0 makes that much difference, huh?. Ok, if that is the case, I'll buy it. No arguments here, but then you still have the question of what gets you more bang for buck, extra ballast or the extra Yaw you get from the 3.0's.

    Listen man, If you have bottomless pockets, get it all. Don't leave anything behind, but, most frequently we must make decisions based on budgets and someone's gonna get cut.
    2020 Supra SL 400
    2015 Moomba Mojo(Sold)
    2018 Yamaha Waverunner(Just to fool around)
    2018 F150 Lariat
    sport edition, 3.5lt ecoboost

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Posts
    167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaguel View Post
    Hmmm, don't mean to drag this out or be argumentative but about your Yaw comment. It's an interesting effect I had not considered.
    First, are you and engineer, hydraulics, boat designer? I truly am not being facetious, I honestly would like to know. I'm not, my deductions are based on loose research around forums and pure deductive reasoning. I'm not a hardheaded person and am always willing to learn.

    But, you mention Yaw being provided by the 3.0 tab design cleaning the wave lip. I'm just trying to understand how that occurs. Again, likely b/c I'm an engineering layman.
    This is the explanation I come up with. When surfing, what I have seen is that when the boat turns toward the side contralateral to the surf wave, even with mild turns, the wave lengthens and cleans up nicely. That would be equivalent to Yaw to the right if you're surfing regular. If the boat turns toward the surf side the wave shortens and gets all rough, so much that I have to surf closer to platform in order to not loose wave. That's equivalent to Yaw to left. I'm sure we're all familiar with this.
    So, if the 3.0 tab increases Yaw, it would be to the side ipsilateral to the tab, it would in effect cause the bow to point slightly to the right when surfing regular, so right side Yaw, similar to having the boat turn right. Is this what you are referring to? Did I get this right?

    I would think any tab deployed will cause some Yaw to the ipsilateral side. We see that when we're driving straight and we have to keep the boat from turning to the side of the deployed tab. That lip on the 3.0 makes that much difference, huh?. Ok, if that is the case, I'll buy it. No arguments here, but then you still have the question of what gets you more bang for buck, extra ballast or the extra Yaw you get from the 3.0's.

    Listen man, If you have bottomless pockets, get it all. Don't leave anything behind, but, most frequently we must make decisions based on budgets and someone's gonna get cut.

    Good points. Would be nice to have a clean wave face without a little bit of listing that I currently use. Throw in hydraulic steering and a stern thruster and I would never feel the need to upgrade.

    PS. Ipsilateral, contralateral.... I'll believe you are not in engineering....but going to go with healthcare professional, haha
    2018 Max - Ultrablue flake/Gray - 4400 lbs water (720s midship), 750 lbs lead somewhere

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,382

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXSurf4 View Post
    As far as an OEM retrofit to 3.0 no you are not able to through the dealers. I already asked mine and they contacted SC and were told no. Dakota and I have discussed a few other way to do it lol


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    It’s all about the PDM. The older boats don’t have it.


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  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,382

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaguel View Post
    Hmmm, don't mean to drag this out or be argumentative but about your Yaw comment. It's an interesting effect I had not considered.
    First, are you and engineer, hydraulics, boat designer? I truly am not being facetious, I honestly would like to know. I'm not, my deductions are based on loose research around forums and pure deductive reasoning. I'm not a hardheaded person and am always willing to learn.

    But, you mention Yaw being provided by the 3.0 tab design cleaning the wave lip. I'm just trying to understand how that occurs. Again, likely b/c I'm an engineering layman.
    This is the explanation I come up with. When surfing, what I have seen is that when the boat turns toward the side contralateral to the surf wave, even with mild turns, the wave lengthens and cleans up nicely. That would be equivalent to Yaw to the right if you're surfing regular. If the boat turns toward the surf side the wave shortens and gets all rough, so much that I have to surf closer to platform in order to not loose wave. That's equivalent to Yaw to left. I'm sure we're all familiar with this.
    So, if the 3.0 tab increases Yaw, it would be to the side ipsilateral to the tab, it would in effect cause the bow to point slightly to the right when surfing regular, so right side Yaw, similar to having the boat turn right. Is this what you are referring to? Did I get this right?

    I would think any tab deployed will cause some Yaw to the ipsilateral side. We see that when we're driving straight and we have to keep the boat from turning to the side of the deployed tab. That lip on the 3.0 makes that much difference, huh?. Ok, if that is the case, I'll buy it. No arguments here, but then you still have the question of what gets you more bang for buck, extra ballast or the extra Yaw you get from the 3.0's.

    Listen man, If you have bottomless pockets, get it all. Don't leave anything behind, but, most frequently we must make decisions based on budgets and someone's gonna get cut.
    What you state is correct. It creates adverse yaw, which in a simple way directs the rooster tail (which extends in the opposite direction of the hull direction through they water) away from the desired surf wave face. The turbulence of the rooster tail is what dirties the wave face.

    Yes there is drag created by the deployed plate that creates yaw, it just happens to not be quite enough in a lot of cases. The yaw plate gives it the extra bit of force needed.

    The sole purpose is yaw generation exactly as you state, and that’s why it works. The supra Swell plates are mounted at an angle that generates this yaw inherently. Not sure why Supra and Moomba address this design need differently, but the net effect is the same.

    I am not an engineer, just a very studious user with deep conversations with the engineering department at SC under my belt. Lots of chats. Awesome people.

    Ballast is always priority number one. If you’re pinching pennies. I am not sure what the Flow3 option costs—as I am getting a Max on which it’s not offered. But for 2021, the Max has the brain to run it (7” screen required). Parts at retail to add it are in the $2600 range by loose calculations.

    If I was optioning any of the other models that are 22’ and longer, Flow 3.0 is a no brainer for me. As you can imagine, more yaw force is needed for the longer hulls.


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  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,382

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    Good points. Would be nice to have a clean wave face without a little bit of listing that I currently use. Throw in hydraulic steering and a stern thruster and I would never feel the need to upgrade.

    PS. Ipsilateral, contralateral.... I'll believe you are not in engineering....but going to go with healthcare professional, haha
    I caught that too—I sell total knee and hip replacements for a living. These are common speak for me too.


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  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    304

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota4ce View Post
    ....I am not sure what the Flow3 option costs—as I am getting a Max on which it’s not offered. But for 2021, the Max has the brain to run it (7” screen required). Parts at retail to add it are in the $2600 range by loose calculations.

    If I was optioning any of the other models that are 22’ and longer, Flow 3.0 is a no brainer for me. As you can imagine, more yaw force is needed for the longer hulls.
    Damn, was really hoping 2021 Max would have Flow 3.0 as a standard option. Wondering why they'd tease you with such high potential in displacement (vs. Craz/Mojo/Kaiyen) but then limit some aspect of the surfing? I've attached a spec sheet I made for the 2020 models, where I compare all the publicized spec info. (I didn't include fuel weight but it only varies by about 200lbs from Helix to SupraSE.)

    Model Ballast (std) Ballast (opt) Length Pass. Weight Boat Weight Boat + Pass. + Ballast
    Helix 2400 2800 20'5" 2000 4000 8800
    Max 3200 4000 22'6" 2800 4500 11300
    Craz 3000 22' 2400 4200 9600
    Mojo 3000 23' 2500 4400 9900
    Kaiyen 3700 21'5" 2100 4500 10300
    Makai 4000 24'5" 2500 5200 11700
    SupraSR 3300 20'11" 2200 4950 10450
    SupraSA 3500 22'5" 2400 5800 11700
    SupraSL 3500 23'5" 2500 5600 11600
    SupraSE 4100 24'5" 2800 6150 13050
    2021 Mojo, 6.2L Raptor 400/1.76, Acme 3407 15.5x13, G6, Flow3, +6500 lbs ballast
    2005 Mobius LSV (sold)
    Windermere Lake, B.C., 2800' Elevation
    2021 Mojo Mods

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