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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Ft Gibson Lake OK
    Posts
    205

    Default

    We have a 2020 Makai with the 400 and haven't had any issues with power at 580 ft. Seems to be a great boat IMO. Just note the 2020s have a different geared Vdrive than the earlier 2019 models. Either works just make sure you have the right prop.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Posts
    52

    Default

    My lake’s elevation is 1,127.

    Would the standard 400hp work ok?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,748

    Default Makai underpowered and unreliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by RB56 View Post
    My lakeís elevation is 1,127.

    Would the standard 400hp work ok?
    Yes, I would say 2500-3000 feet is where it starts to become a minor concern if you were trying to wakeboard full ballast at 22mph


    Just to clarify, the raptor 400 is 350hp and 404ft lbs of torque.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2021 Supra SA 400
    2018 Supra SA 400 (SOLD)
    Michigan

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mn
    Posts
    703

    Default

    I hear this discussion about high altitude and engine performance quite often. But it makes me wonder, based on how IC works, really what you need is turbos or superchargers. Naturally aspirated engine performance will decrease significantly as O2 concentration thins out in higher elevation and barometric pressure drops. So, I would assume you get a little more performance out of the 440, but as far as I know, it is still naturally aspirated, it may have larger air intakes and filters but, the displacement is the same and unless you push air under pressure with a turbo or supercharger, the engine is still starving for O2 and the benefit of the 450 will not be anywhere near as good at the same elevation. You really want the forced air of the turbo with the 550.
    2020 Supra SL 400
    2015 Moomba Mojo(Sold)
    2018 Yamaha Waverunner(Just to fool around)
    2018 F150 Lariat
    sport edition, 3.5lt ecoboost

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Isaguel.... I have been in a mojo but not a
    Makai. Since you have owned boat I’m curios your thoughts
    On roominess for passengers between the 2
    Models? Does the Makai provide that much more room than
    A mojo?

    Thanks!
    2016 Sweetwater Godfrey Tritoon 150Hp

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mn
    Posts
    703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tgardner917 View Post
    Isaguel.... I have been in a mojo but not a
    Makai. Since you have owned boat I’m curios your thoughts
    On roominess for passengers between the 2
    Models? Does the Makai provide that much more room than
    A mojo?

    Thanks!
    The makai is 1.5 ft longer and also deeper to account for the subfloor ballast. I have been in a Makai and I have to admit, it is substantially roomier inside. Thankfully SC chooses not to waste space in those less than useful transom seats we see in other boats like MC and Nauti's. Therefore, that extra length directly translates into quite more noticeable room in the seating area. The bow seems also larger. That being said, you're also talking about a boat that's 800lbs heavier. Think about towing or fitting lengthwise in garage. The difference maker really is the subfloor ballast. The Mojo will need more ballast, the extra bags will take up your storage. When you have a couple of families and all their stuff, the extra storage under the seats is essential.
    One way to ameliorate this shortcoming on the Mojo is to get the 1100 lb WM bags and then add 800lb of lead evenly throughout the boat. It'll get you the minimum 4k lbs ballast that the Mojo needs and save some storage. Just remember to reinforce the engine compartment divider walls. If you live on a lake and don't have to tow, the Makai has the advantage.
    I think both boats are great. The short answer to your question is, yes, the Makai has substantially more room and the SBF is awesome. But the Mojo has plenty of room, well designed and roomy for a 23 ft boat, but you'll need to opt for the Pro tower in order to fit in an 8ft garage.
    2020 Supra SL 400
    2015 Moomba Mojo(Sold)
    2018 Yamaha Waverunner(Just to fool around)
    2018 F150 Lariat
    sport edition, 3.5lt ecoboost

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Henderson, NV
    Posts
    6,513

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaguel View Post
    I hear this discussion about high altitude and engine performance quite often. But it makes me wonder, based on how IC works, really what you need is turbos or superchargers. Naturally aspirated engine performance will decrease significantly as O2 concentration thins out in higher elevation and barometric pressure drops. So, I would assume you get a little more performance out of the 440, but as far as I know, it is still naturally aspirated, it may have larger air intakes and filters but, the displacement is the same and unless you push air under pressure with a turbo or supercharger, the engine is still starving for O2 and the benefit of the 450 will not be anywhere near as good at the same elevation. You really want the forced air of the turbo with the 550.
    probably a good topic for the indmar engineers

    forced induction, specifically turbos make more power at lower elevations and it holds true at higher but they experience a loss of power as well. the air in denver is much different than the air in san diego. the turbo crams the same psi of air into the engine regardless of altitude(wastegate holds psi) but due to less oxygen the engine is still working harder and producing more heat which reduces power. superchargers spin at a constant speed unlike a turbo so 10psi of boost at sea level will likely not be 10psi of boost in denver. now a 10% reduction in power off a 400 is a lot different than a 10% loss off the 550 so supercharger would still be a good bet at higher elevations but still not ideal I believe.

    on the 400 vs 440, It's my understanding that they are identical in all aspects and the extra oomph is all in software tune. no difference in actual engine components. I could be wrong on this and indmar seems to keep it a secret on what they are doing. it would suggest above that the 400 is very conservatively tuned and the 440 likely has a little more fuel and some timing changed to get the extra output but I remember reading somewhere that the extra hp/tq is all on the mid-top end so out of the hole the engines are almost identical.
    they don't publish the dyno charts that I have ever seen and likely for good reason. there's a 460 version that it looks is tuned for higher octane and closer to the edge. this would be the "upgrade" to get as I bet the curve has a larger bump in low end grunt than the 440.

    a lot of people get hung up on engine specs and if you go back 12-14 years ago mastercraft was loading the snot out of the xstar hull with engines putting out less hp/tq than the raptor motors. props- and now tranny/vdrives really make a bigger difference than the few ftlbs you are going to get from the 440 upgrade.
    again all imo......
    '06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mn
    Posts
    703

    Default

    I get what u say. I take back the comment of the 550 having a turbo. I knew it was superchgr, just a slip in thought stream.
    But, what I mean is, at any elevation, all other things being equal, with forced induction you're always going to retain more power at higher elevations. If you cram in more air, you will have more oxygen available to burn more fuel and generate more power. A forced induction enhanced engine should theoretically retain more efficiency as the elevation increases than a naturally aspirated one. I just don't think you get the bang for the buck in the 440 that you would if you could somehow bolt a turbo onto that thing. I'm not saying you don't get any extra power. I'm not mechanically savvy, I'm just questioning how much benefit you would gain for 8k$. Do you gain just as much "torque equivalent" if you would just switch to a lower pitch prop and sacrifice some speed rather than spend 8k$ for a marginal benefit? I dunno. I wish someone would run the numbers. It would be an interesting project. Not sure how you Dyno a boat, but I'm sure there are ways.
    BTW, on that subject. Why hasn't anyone ever commented on easy ways to get more air in that doesn't cost a fortune. A high flow air filter and larger air intake e.g. Should not have to mess with ECU and it's a bolt on mod. Should not void warranty, and if you ever need warranty work and you're concerned, just remove it and bolt on the old one. It's just a car engine. It's one way to get more air in without spending 8k. I'm sure someone here is knowledgeable and can provide some info. I'm just curious. I have no idea how feasible this is. Room in engine compartment a problem?
    2020 Supra SL 400
    2015 Moomba Mojo(Sold)
    2018 Yamaha Waverunner(Just to fool around)
    2018 F150 Lariat
    sport edition, 3.5lt ecoboost

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,748

    Default

    A 460 at 5000 feet elevation will lose 61.5hp or make 348.5 hp. So it would perform the same as a 400 (350hp)does at sea level.

    A 580 at 5000 feet loses 76 hp and makes 433 hp.

    Elevation is a killer, but that is the purpose of the 460 and 580 options for high elevation regions.

    Do you need more than a 400 at low elevations? Nope. But at $8000 and $21000 option, if money is not a problem why not lol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2021 Supra SA 400
    2018 Supra SA 400 (SOLD)
    Michigan

  10. #20

    Default

    The $8,000 they charge for nothing more than software has had me thinking. It’s highway robbery frankly. Do you suppose they expect reliability to go down...aka warranty claims up? I get it - if the charge was $1,000 or less, I would bet every boat would have the 450.

    Our Makai has the 400, were at low altitude and I have never had an inkling for wanting more...

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