Ethanol vs non-ethanol, problems?

[MLA]

For high performance use, E85 (up to 85% ethanol) is poor mans race gas at appx 105 octane.

You can make serious power running E85 especially in forced induction applications.

I would clarify that this is when building an engine and writing a custom tune (if an ECM controlled engine) but would not be the results in a "street" engine thats designed for typical pump gas and E10. You would not want to run E85 unless you have a "flex fuel" vehicle and would not get a boost in performance running E85. Hell, I have a flex fuel tahoe and WILL NOT run E85. Corn is meant for whiskey not my gas tank.

[larry_arizona]

I would clarify that this is when building an engine and writing a custom tune (if an ECM controlled engine) but would not be the results in a "street" engine thats designed for typical pump gas and E10. You would not want to run E85 unless you have a "flex fuel" vehicle and would not get a boost in performance running E85. Hell, I have a flex fuel tahoe and WILL NOT run E85. Corn is meant for whiskey not my gas tank.

Very good points of clarification, you need to be tuned for E85 and it helps to have a flex fuel sensor.

GM started using hybrid flex fuel tunes on their full size trucks in 2014. What I mean is they started taking advantage of the extra hp by adding timing when the flex sensor reads more %alcohol.

The 5.3 V8 on 87 makes 355hp and 383 ft lbs. on full E85, GM rates power at 380hp and 417 ft.lbs.

The tune adjusts for any ratio of 87 and E85 based on % alcohol read by the flex sensor.

I ran E85 often in my 2015 Silverado, it lost 1.5 mpg on average but would stay in V4 mode longer due to the higher hp. Was still a cost save due to E85 being so cheap (90 cents at the time). But the power gain was very noticeable.


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[sandm]

lots of tuners were playing with e85 when I sold my old evo9. bottom line there's a lot of other parts than just software that have to be changed out to run 85 in a car- or any motorized vehicle for that matter. quite a bit of the fuel system had to be replaced along with adding larger injectors as 85 needs more fuel to burn properly. flip side is a lot of added horsepower.

to the OP, your engine so do what you like but if you don't have the 575 blown motor, if your manual calls for 89, you are pissing money away running 93. there is no advantage to running higher octane gas and in some cases it can not be good for the motor since the higher octane has a different burn rate that your ecu is not tuned to handle.
I have no issues running ethanol blended gas during the summer(these are nothing but slightly modified car engines) but if you leave the boat sitting idle for extended periods or it's the end of the season and time to lay up, find ethanol free gas or use some stabil or startron additive.

[larry_arizona]

E85 needs injectors that are full stainless internals, ideally you want a flex fuel kit, there are many kits available for most GM performance cars after 2009. Also you run out of fuel pump pretty quick depending on how much HP you are at. The flex kit adds a alcohol sensor and ties into your PCM wireharness. Then your tuner can do two tunes, one for E85 and one for 93. Then the tune can be scaled between the two fuel extremes based on
%alcohol reading from the alcohol sensor.

6-8 degrees added timing is a ton of power and alcohol behaves like a liquid heat exchanger to cool intake temps on forced induction applications.

There is one HUGE problem with E85, the black goo of death......it’s real and not much you can do about it other than cleaning injectors and pulling pump to clean.

Alternating e85 and 93 helps, but eventually the goo will get ya.






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[jason1973]

using ethanol even e-10 attracts moisture. I avoid it at all costs. If you have to use it i would suggest an additive to help with that. Boats run in wet environments and we don't need more moisture attracting substances. Is it safe to use? yes, but again i have heard from man mechanics that e-10 is good for about 30 days. Most of the time boats don't get used like cars where you are running thru the system on a daily basis.

And i would never store it with ethanol gas over the winter. I think the stuff is crap and always use 91 NON eth gas from my weed wacker all the way up to my boats and toys.

[Surf Wagon]

I would clarify that this is when building an engine and writing a custom tune (if an ECM controlled engine) but would not be the results in a "street" engine thats designed for typical pump gas and E10. You would not want to run E85 unless you have a "flex fuel" vehicle and would not get a boost in performance running E85. Hell, I have a flex fuel tahoe and WILL NOT run E85. Corn is meant for whiskey not my gas tank.

Amen

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[Surf Wagon]

Lots good information guys. May I ask, if there's a boost in HP with E85. On the occasional longer boating trips. Would it be worth putting E85 in a flex fuel vehicle for tow? Talking like 2-3 total tanks!

Thanks

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[sandm]

everything I read on the ranger forums when I had my old flex fuel ranger said to either run e85 regularly or stay away from it. most that had 75k+ on their rides stated they had a lot of issues with the e85 picking up crap in the tank/lines and a clogged fuel filter within a day or 2 if they switched over.
google search the forums and you'll see the power pickup is not real noticable and the loss of fuel economy can be up to 20%.
I chose not to run e85 in the ranger for this reason.

now if I would have kept my old evo9 I would have already converted over to e85 as there's lots of reasons to switch over if you're running a boosted motor and can get it tuned/replace the fuel parts to take advantage of the energy in the fuel. and in that car who cares about fuel mileage

[larry_arizona]

I agree on no power gain and lost MPG on the early flex fuel vehicles in the early 2000’s

GM finally hybrid tuned for them in 2014+ flex fuel trucks. $100 option and the power is up 30hp and 40 ftlbs and it’s very noticeable, mpg loss was appx 1.5 mpg but worth it because when I had the truck, it was nearly $1 per gallon cheaper to run E85, so it was a significant cost save despite less mpg.


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[larry_arizona]

Lots good information guys. May I ask, if there's a boost in HP with E85. On the occasional longer boating trips. Would it be worth putting E85 in a flex fuel vehicle for tow? Talking like 2-3 total tanks!

Thanks

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IF the truck is tuned for it, yes. 2014+GM trucks are the only ones currently taking advantage of the higher octane and adding timing for it.

Just make sure you have the flex option, easiest way to tell is yellow gas cap.


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