Ethanol vs non-ethanol, problems?

[MLA]

The EPA does mandate a basic additives package for every gallon of road fuel that goes into the pipelines. The more name brand gas companies do add some proprietary additives to the gas once they draw it from the pipeline though. IMO, this is manly marketing.

I fuel up at where ever the gas is the cheapest. My 17 year old SUV with 280K averaged 16+ MPG from new up to the day it died. Zero fuel problems.

[sandm]

edo- texas may be different due to the location to refineries but out west in Boise, there was only 1 main pipeline into the valley and all but 1 of the major brands buys from the same source out of salt lake city(iirc flying J travel center buys from a different refinery in slc and trucks it up). each manufacturer then adds their own special mixture to make it unique. chevron could get the "bottom of the barrel" and then add from there. stations are selling the same basic gas and adding what they want to it but in the end costco, walmart, chevron, insert any name here- are all coming from the same holding tanks.
I would be surprised if it's much different around other parts of the US. with razor-thin margins buying in bulk from wherever and adding your own additives makes business sense.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/...e40864992.html

not sure about requirements in the midwest with detergent being required but would not surprise me. gasoline in green bay was price controlled in that you could not sell below cost so everyone sold for the same amount. no reason to not add it as margins were the same for everyone.

[Edo88]

I’m just saying there is a big difference between top tier fuel and regular there’s nothing wrong with running cheap fuel on a motor that uses good ol sequential or TB injection. But for motors with direct injection I would only run a top tier brand even if it is 87 octane seen plenty of motors carbon up with 30 40k miles. Vw actually made us add a fuel additive that would help break the carbon down if it had cold start misfires. Lexus was replacing pistons. Since carbon is a by product of combustion and with direct injection you don’t have the injector cleaning the valve a good detergent is a must

We had a diesel that got bad fuel at shell and blew up the injection pump and sent metal through the entire system shell cut a check for 10k for the repairs also another reason I’ll only get fuel at a reputable place.


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[sandm]

since we're on a boating forum, I'll bring up the raptor motors are not gdi so good to go

Just because a station does not say "top tier" does not mean they are selling poor gas. costco in boise for a long time bought their gas from the chevron wholesaler. they couldn't advertise as chevron fuel as they are not part of the network but a few shops did testing and found it to be the same exact formula coming out of the chevron station across the street for $.75 more/gallon.

I'm with MLA. buy it cheap unless it's layup time.

on gdi. it's how auto makers found a quick way to get around gov't fuel economy requirements and not having fully tested the technology problems look to be coming to light. calling out to use top tier gasoline is a way to get them out of any accountability to repairs and push ownership of any breakdowns onto the general public. I would bet a beer that there are lots of examples like you list above where engines have issues from using top tier and similarly 100k engines ran on "poor grade" gas.

[larry_arizona]

since we're on a boating forum, I'll bring up the raptor motors are not gdi so good to go

Just because a station does not say "top tier" does not mean they are selling poor gas. costco in boise for a long time bought their gas from the chevron wholesaler. they couldn't advertise as chevron fuel as they are not part of the network but a few shops did testing and found it to be the same exact formula coming out of the chevron station across the street for $.75 more/gallon.

I'm with MLA. buy it cheap unless it's layup time.

on gdi. it's how auto makers found a quick way to get around gov't fuel economy requirements and not having fully tested the technology problems look to be coming to light. calling out to use top tier gasoline is a way to get them out of any accountability to repairs and push ownership of any breakdowns onto the general public. I would bet a beer that there are lots of examples like you list above where engines have issues from using top tier and similarly 100k engines ran on "poor grade" gas.

For the record, Costco gas is top tier.




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[sandm]

For the record, Costco gas is top tier.

good to know but for a long time they didn't or couldn't advertise that. looks like around 2014 they received the designator.

here's the latest list of top tier. what I find interesting is this seems to cover the majority of the stations peddling gas today. doing some quick looking top tier is really a business that these retailers below "license" from. they are required to meet a certain detergent rate but can go up to 3x that required rate indicating that you might think chevron is the best but in reality quik trip might be selling a better blend. both are able to advertise the same. wonder how many other stations that are not top tier "certified" are really selling good gas but not willing to pay for the licensing fees since it's coming from the same wholesaler.

Top Tier Retailers
76, Aloha Petroleum, Amoco, ARCO, Beacon, BP, Breakaway, Break Time, Cenex, Chevron, CITGO, Conoco, Costco, CountryMark, Diamond Shamrock, Entec, Esso, Express Mart, Exxon, Fast Fuel, HFN, Hele, Holiday, Kwik Star, Irving, Kirkland Signature, Kwik Star, Kwik Trip, Marathon, Metro Petro, MFA, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Phillips 66, PUMA, QT, Quik Trip, Road Ranger, Shamrock, Shell, Sinclair, Sunoco, SuperAmerica, SuperFuels, Texaco, Valero, Value America, Wow, and Win Win.

[larry_arizona]

I monitor knock retard on my fun car, I see no knock with Costco 93 and 2-4 deg KR with Sams 93.

It makes a difference.


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[asteggall]

I monitor knock retard on my fun car, I see no knock with Costco 93 and 2-4 deg KR with Sams 93.

It makes a difference.


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And what fun car would that be Larry? Oh I bet I can guess

[larry_arizona]

And what fun car would that be Larry? Oh I bet I can guess

Hey buddy, WELCOME!!


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[Jeepers]

Octane comes into play in two and only two circumstances.

1. Elevation. Your engine needs less octane at higher elevations due to lower compression at high altitudes.

2. Engine compression. The higher compression your engine, the higher octane is needed to decrease the chance of pre-ignition. (Think Diesel. Diesel fuel combusts due to compression).

You can only take advantage of the higher octane if you increase the engine’s compression. Tuning won’t do jack crap and anyone who says otherwise you should ignore. They have no fricken clue what they’re talking about.

Just use Indmar’s recommended octane level for your engine and purchase top tier detergent gasoline. Indmar specifies a specific octane rating for your engines compression ratio. Make sure to use Stabil Marine 360 fuel stabilizer at every fill up and completely fill your tank before storing for any length of time.

The only potential issue you may see with ethanol gas is water accumulation in the fuel tank. Stabil Marine will eliminate this issue.

Don’t get me wrong; Ethanol blended fuels are giant scam! Besides decreasing fuel economy it was a mega welfare program for corn ethanol producers and does absolutely nothing to reduce emissions. You must also take into account that the increased fuel economy of non-ethanol gasoline does not offset the increased price per gallon and lack of detergents. Even though the gas station sign says: Chevron, Conoco, Texaco... the non-ethanol fuel the station is selling is not from that brand. They buy the non-ethanol from tiny local fuel distributors and there are no detergents. These detergents are vital to the longevity of your engine.

Ultimately it’s your boat and your decision. The individuals giving you miss information don’t have to live with the consequences.

Octane is simply the measure of how much compression a fuel can withstand before igniting. That’s it! There’s nothing magic about it! In fact!; The only reason Lead was ever added to gasoline was to increase the octane rating to auto manufacturers specifications with the introduction of higher compression engines.

Raptor compression ratio: 9.8:1
325 Assault compression ratio: 9.4:1

These are not high compression engines!

Comparison

HEMI 5.7L compression ratio: 10.5:1
HEMI 6.4L compression ratio: 10.9:1
2019 GM 5.3L compression ratio: 11.0:1

I hope this helps and I hope I didn’t hurt anyone’s feelings. That’s not my intention. My only intention is to provide the truth so the individual asking an honest question can make an honest decision for themselves.

It’s difficult to navigate through the abundance of hype and marketing. Most mechanics don’t even understand this stuff and can caught up in the misinformation.

Good luck!

“That’s all I gotta say about that!”






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