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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Kuna, Idaho
    Posts
    146

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    Quote Originally Posted by parrothd View Post
    Autowake for the win, like any tool you have to know how to use it. I didn't use it for my first 150hrs cuz I didn't read the posts and apply it. Now 100% autowake.

    Next time you have that great wave flip on autowake and record the pitch and roll you like. Then set autowake to those numbers for the next time. Helps if you fill all ballast, then do a test run, turn on autowake then move ballast people to achieve the pitch roll you want. That way you get max ballast. It'll keep the pitch roll even when people move or as you burn fuel.
    Same here, we tired, we failed and just did our own thing.. Got about 70 hours on the boat and I spent a lot of time reading here and thought I finally understood. It got better... but I needed time to play with it.100 hours later I read it again and BAM, we wont go back to not using it now. Even reading through this thread I learned a couple little new things and understand even more. Now onto the tips of the day thread!
    2018 Max - Wetsounds - Wake Makers upgrade

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    288

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    Quote Originally Posted by goose View Post
    Hey guys. I read most of this post and just wanted to let you know that I put the "printable" tips of the day on the sticky AutoWake post in the Sales forum......
    Goose- First a big thanks for all your help and contributions.

    I do have a question. From what I can tell the only way to adjust roll access in autowake is in the user menu autowake settings. Why is this? Speed control and pitch are both simplistic, however the roll access adjustment is very cumbersome especially while driving. Is it not meant to be "tweaked" while underway?

    It seems I have a "better looking" wave it AW on. However, the best surfing wave at least to me has been with it off. I tend to like a shorter, taller wave. AW seems to drain a lot of the ballast. Perhaps we should keep the boat more center balanced??
    I am guilty of my trying new roll settings too.

    a few vids.


    Here is what I consider to be the best wave I have had. We had about 10 people on board.
    AW-OFF
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oebNFZm6VBE

    - This wave is bigger than it looks, the water was a little choppy so it ts not all that clean looking.


    This is a different day. We had AW-ON.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuKGmKmo5yU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V5TFQbAaUU

    The wave seems a little smaller
    2019 MAX
    2015 Mobius LSV Surf Edition (SOLD)
    2001 Supra Sunsport SSV- SOLD
    2017 Ram 2500 Crew Cummins 6.7L

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,522

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    Quote Originally Posted by flienlow View Post
    Goose- First a big thanks for all your help and contributions.

    I do have a question. From what I can tell the only way to adjust roll access in autowake is in the user menu autowake settings. Why is this? Speed control and pitch are both simplistic, however the roll access adjustment is very cumbersome especially while driving. Is it not meant to be "tweaked" while underway?

    It seems I have a "better looking" wave it AW on. However, the best surfing wave at least to me has been with it off. I tend to like a shorter, taller wave. AW seems to drain a lot of the ballast. Perhaps we should keep the boat more center balanced??
    I am guilty of my trying new roll settings too.

    a few vids.


    Here is what I consider to be the best wave I have had. We had about 10 people on board.
    AW-OFF
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oebNFZm6VBE

    - This wave is bigger than it looks, the water was a little choppy so it ts not all that clean looking.


    This is a different day. We had AW-ON.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuKGmKmo5yU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V5TFQbAaUU

    The wave seems a little smaller
    Re-read this thread, especially the tips.
    http://www.instgram.com/jlyons30
    2002 Moomba Mobius LSV - Sold
    2006 Moomba Mobius LSV - Sold
    2017 Moomba Craz - Enzos, Lead

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Boating on Lake Martin, AL
    Posts
    1,523

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    Those a nice vids flienlow and thanks for sharing your settings. Going to give them a try. I can’t remember or keep up with everyone’s setup but did you add midship ballast in those videos or still stock?

    BTW you gotta update your sig homie
    Last edited by haknslash; 07-15-2019 at 08:24 PM.
    2019 Moomba Max "MOOMBAE"
    Mods: Wakemakers upgrade + 500 lbs of lead
    2016 Yamaha AR192 - sold

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by haknslash View Post
    Those a nice vids flienlow and thanks for sharing your settings. Going to give them a try. I can’t remember or keep up with everyone’s setup but did you add midship ballast in those videos or still stock?

    BTW you gotta update your sig homie
    I managed to squeeze in My wakemaker's 1100lb bags from my LSV in the midship lockers. They do not fill all the way, but I think I am getting around 800 a side.
    I find it so strange how one day you have a boat load of people and the wake is unreal. Then the next you have just about the same crew and it's just not there. We went out yesterday and had a great time, but the wave was not quite there. I do love this boat a LOT more than my lsv. I just need to figure out the consistency. The max is very capable.
    Last edited by flienlow; 07-15-2019 at 10:12 PM.
    2019 MAX
    2015 Mobius LSV Surf Edition (SOLD)
    2001 Supra Sunsport SSV- SOLD
    2017 Ram 2500 Crew Cummins 6.7L

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    195

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    Hey man. If you want you can email me at work for more details, but on first glance I see a few things that might can answer some of your questions.

    First of all, on the home screen, the actual pitch is the numbers on the outside. The numbers on the inside are the "set" numbers. That means the boat is trying to get to that, but if that inside number is orange, that means it hasn't gotten there yet, if it is green it has gotten there and ballast is holding steady, and if red then it doesn't think it can get there. Again, I know we haven't been great about explaining that, but that alone answers some of the questions in the videos.

    Again, I can't see everything in the video, but it appears in the first video, you are actually running about 8.5 pitch on first glance at screen and looks like close to 9 before you switch AW off. When you turn AW off, you can see that you are running 100, 100, 100, so in the first video you have maximized ballast in all 3 compartments and obviously you have dialed in the passenger location because you are running close to the desired pitch and roll that matches the set numbers of 9 and -3.5. The reason the wave is so good is because you really have everything as optimized as much as possible and that is the goal of AutoWake.

    On the second video, on the first glance at screen, you are actually running 7.5 pitch and -2.5 roll. With the lower pitch, that means the wave will be longer. With the less roll, that means you will have a less steep wave. So, in just pitch and roll alone, I can see why you think the second wave might not be as good from a shape standpoint.

    On the third video, it looks like you are back to about 9 and -3.5 so the shape should be back to about where it should be, but I noticed on that screen that you are running 65% on the port plate and 25% on the center plate. The 65% is another factor throwing you off. The default would be 60% so the 5% is not far off, but like someone said if you read in the tips of the day, you would probably find that a much lower % would give you the shape I think you are looking for. Again, read the tips, but someday run the same setup, turn off AW, and adjust that plate up and down. You will find that if you moved that plate to 50 or maybe even 40, the steepness would greatly improve and if you looking for a shorter taller wave, then less plate might be more preferred for you.

    The last thing is I can tell you don't have GPS. On the first video you can see it says "paddlewheel cruise". Not sure if you know, but paddlewheels are extremely inconsistent. You really need to make sure your speed is correct. I doubt you are actually doing 9.8mph in the first video and 10.6 in the second. But once you get it dialed, speed also makes a huge difference. The faster you go, the longer and smaller the wave. The slower you go, the taller and shorted the wave. Another thing that probably no one has picked up on is with a paddlewheel, at surf speeds, because of the location of the pickup, surfing port or surfing stbd actually changes the accuracy of the paddlewheel. If you don't believe me, try it. When you surf port, I think it actually displays the speed faster and surfing stbd is displays slower. The point is, doublecheck the accuracy of your speed if you have paddlewheel and check it port and stbd. It really doesn't matter if it isn't accurate because it is relative to what you like, but if all your friends are surfing at 11.2 and you are surfing at 9.8, that doesn't really mean you are surfing slower, it just means you speedo is showing a slower speed. I bet in those videos you are really going closer to 10.7-11. At a true 9.8 you would probably not have a wave that long...

    Last thing that ALWAYS is most critical is displacement. On one of the videos, you can see the amplitude display is maxed. But you can't trust that when the boat is moving. You have to check amplitude when the boat is sitting still and not rocking. Also, you might doublecheck that the draft sensor is not too high. That is not in the tips, but if you are in a boat with only 1 passenger, no ballast, and the amplitude is much higher than the very bottom, then that means you draft sensor might be mounted a bit low. If you find that to be a problem, let me know and I can help. But when the amplitude is dialed in, that is typically the major factor in wave shape and size. Trust me, it is not a linear thing. Once you get to a certain point in displacement, adding 500-700 lbs can almost double the wave "feel" and "push". And without the amplitude display, it is hard to really know if you are 500 heavier or 500 lighter. If you are not running the exact same amount of fuel, passengers, gear, etc, you really don't know how much weight you have. In one of the videos you are almost out of gas. In another you are full. That is the equivalent of having one extra adult on board. That stuff adds up quick.

    Ok, that is just some of the things I noticed. Again, I think if you go back and read all the tips, experiment with flow plate location, and watch amplitude displacement, I think you will find that even if you don't love AutoWake, it can help you understand why things are different such as wave shape and size. And hopefully as you learn how all that works, you can get to where you are duplicating the exact same wave in the first video everytime....

    Hope that makes sense.

    The last thing I will comment on is it appears the girl in the video is having a blast. And that is the main thing. As with anything, I think sometimes we as adults try and make everything perfect, but that girl seems to be having a blast with the rollers, not perfect conditions, and really that is the best part. Glad to see you are having a great time in your boat. Hopefully some of these tips will keep you happy and entertained everytime!!
    Matt Brown
    Product Development Manager

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goose View Post
    Hey man. If you want you can email me at work for more details, but on first glance I see a few things that might can answer some of your questions.

    First of all, on the home screen, the actual pitch is the numbers on the outside. The numbers on the inside are the "set" numbers. That means the boat is trying to get to that, but if that inside number is orange, that means it hasn't gotten there yet, if it is green it has gotten there and ballast is holding steady, and if red then it doesn't think it can get there. Again, I know we haven't been great about explaining that, but that alone answers some of the questions in the videos.

    Again, I can't see everything in the video, but it appears in the first video, you are actually running about 8.5 pitch on first glance at screen and looks like close to 9 before you switch AW off. When you turn AW off, you can see that you are running 100, 100, 100, so in the first video you have maximized ballast in all 3 compartments and obviously you have dialed in the passenger location because you are running close to the desired pitch and roll that matches the set numbers of 9 and -3.5. The reason the wave is so good is because you really have everything as optimized as much as possible and that is the goal of AutoWake.

    On the second video, on the first glance at screen, you are actually running 7.5 pitch and -2.5 roll. With the lower pitch, that means the wave will be longer. With the less roll, that means you will have a less steep wave. So, in just pitch and roll alone, I can see why you think the second wave might not be as good from a shape standpoint.

    On the third video, it looks like you are back to about 9 and -3.5 so the shape should be back to about where it should be, but I noticed on that screen that you are running 65% on the port plate and 25% on the center plate. The 65% is another factor throwing you off. The default would be 60% so the 5% is not far off, but like someone said if you read in the tips of the day, you would probably find that a much lower % would give you the shape I think you are looking for. Again, read the tips, but someday run the same setup, turn off AW, and adjust that plate up and down. You will find that if you moved that plate to 50 or maybe even 40, the steepness would greatly improve and if you looking for a shorter taller wave, then less plate might be more preferred for you.

    The last thing is I can tell you don't have GPS. On the first video you can see it says "paddlewheel cruise". Not sure if you know, but paddlewheels are extremely inconsistent. You really need to make sure your speed is correct. I doubt you are actually doing 9.8mph in the first video and 10.6 in the second. But once you get it dialed, speed also makes a huge difference. The faster you go, the longer and smaller the wave. The slower you go, the taller and shorted the wave. Another thing that probably no one has picked up on is with a paddlewheel, at surf speeds, because of the location of the pickup, surfing port or surfing stbd actually changes the accuracy of the paddlewheel. If you don't believe me, try it. When you surf port, I think it actually displays the speed faster and surfing stbd is displays slower. The point is, doublecheck the accuracy of your speed if you have paddlewheel and check it port and stbd. It really doesn't matter if it isn't accurate because it is relative to what you like, but if all your friends are surfing at 11.2 and you are surfing at 9.8, that doesn't really mean you are surfing slower, it just means you speedo is showing a slower speed. I bet in those videos you are really going closer to 10.7-11. At a true 9.8 you would probably not have a wave that long...

    Last thing that ALWAYS is most critical is displacement. On one of the videos, you can see the amplitude display is maxed. But you can't trust that when the boat is moving. You have to check amplitude when the boat is sitting still and not rocking. Also, you might doublecheck that the draft sensor is not too high. That is not in the tips, but if you are in a boat with only 1 passenger, no ballast, and the amplitude is much higher than the very bottom, then that means you draft sensor might be mounted a bit low. If you find that to be a problem, let me know and I can help. But when the amplitude is dialed in, that is typically the major factor in wave shape and size. Trust me, it is not a linear thing. Once you get to a certain point in displacement, adding 500-700 lbs can almost double the wave "feel" and "push". And without the amplitude display, it is hard to really know if you are 500 heavier or 500 lighter. If you are not running the exact same amount of fuel, passengers, gear, etc, you really don't know how much weight you have. In one of the videos you are almost out of gas. In another you are full. That is the equivalent of having one extra adult on board. That stuff adds up quick.

    Ok, that is just some of the things I noticed. Again, I think if you go back and read all the tips, experiment with flow plate location, and watch amplitude displacement, I think you will find that even if you don't love AutoWake, it can help you understand why things are different such as wave shape and size. And hopefully as you learn how all that works, you can get to where you are duplicating the exact same wave in the first video everytime....

    Hope that makes sense.

    The last thing I will comment on is it appears the girl in the video is having a blast. And that is the main thing. As with anything, I think sometimes we as adults try and make everything perfect, but that girl seems to be having a blast with the rollers, not perfect conditions, and really that is the best part. Glad to see you are having a great time in your boat. Hopefully some of these tips will keep you happy and entertained everytime!!
    Think one big missing point is water depth, needs to over 10feet.
    http://www.instgram.com/jlyons30
    2002 Moomba Mobius LSV - Sold
    2006 Moomba Mobius LSV - Sold
    2017 Moomba Craz - Enzos, Lead

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by parrothd View Post
    Think one big missing point is water depth, needs to over 10feet.
    @Parrothd- YES! We change course to avoid the shallow areas.

    @Goose. Thank you so much for your time. I did read all of your tips of the days the day, and your last post here helps a bunch too.

    Some take aways.
    1 you guys did the research, defaults are probably best, deltas from that should be minimal.
    2 the challenge for the driver seems to be keeping AW from dumping ballast. - Fill ballast full, arrange crew and gear evenly, set surfing to manual and adjust pitch, speed, and people, until wave is looking favorable. Once achieved, flip on AW to get real time settings and then use those setting in AW. If they are far off default settings something may be a miss. Hence try to set the attitude up so ballast dumping will be minimal.
    3. I need to look at the draft sensors. - where do I find more information? what it looks like, where its located, how to adjust.
    4. I Need to burn some gas in a manual mode and simply get more accustom to adjusting the display and wake settings.


    Question- Whether I have 1000lbs of ballast, or 10,000lbs is the best shape of the wave achieve by that -3.5 roll setting? In other words If you were to magically roll the boat 90 degrees left. The Prop be half out of the water, and the starboard hull would be straight up in the air. Obviously this wont work, so by rolling it back down to -3.5 +/- is that what we are after? How does more ballast relate to that?


    and yes, you are correct. The daughter just loves the boat and going surfing, and this is something we enjoy together. I tell her all the time "not everybody gets this."
    2019 MAX
    2015 Mobius LSV Surf Edition (SOLD)
    2001 Supra Sunsport SSV- SOLD
    2017 Ram 2500 Crew Cummins 6.7L

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    ALABAMA
    Posts
    202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flienlow View Post
    Question- Whether I have 1000lbs of ballast, or 10,000lbs is the best shape of the wave achieve by that -3.5 roll setting? In other words If you were to magically roll the boat 90 degrees left. The Prop be half out of the water, and the starboard hull would be straight up in the air. Obviously this wont work, so by rolling it back down to -3.5 +/- is that what we are after? How does more ballast relate to that?
    This is the same question I have. I'm running a small crew so I have a good bit of additional ballast.
    I've always wondered:
    1) if the stock roll setting would still apply
    2) Is a higher roll, say 4-5, "more optimal" when you have more displacement?

    The reason I ask is because once I get out of the boat to surf, whatever AW is set to, that's all I'm getting. My wife, bless her heart, does an excellent job of driving, picking up riders, and even docking but when it comes to altering settings based on how the wave looks or what I tell her I'm experiencing, FORGET it. So, in my case, AW is a tool that allows me to at least have some sort of a decent wave once I get my chance to get out of the driver's seat and into the water. I've just always wondered what the correlation is between maxed out ballast (bags, lead, fuel, crew, ect) and roll numbers.
    2017 Moomba Helix
    Flow 2.0
    AutoWake
    Surf Edition
    WM Rears 1200s
    Fresh Air Exhaust
    Fat Sac 400s (Midship compartments)
    LeadWake bags

  10. #40

    Default

    I would think that Goose and the Skiers Choice folks should have a "Ideal or Optimum" Pitch and Roll for each hull from the Moomba and Supra lineups. Surely the "ideal or optimum" pitch and roll cannot be the same for say a Craz to a SL or SE.
    2018 Supra SL550 with 850lbs of lead wake
    2017 Supra SA400 (Sold)
    2016 Moomba Mojo Surf Edition (Sold)
    2017 Ford F250 Super Duty (Sold)
    2019 Ford F250 Super Duty (Sold)
    2021 GMC Denali 2500
    Soulcraft Vodoo
    Soulcraft Jordi Pro
    Soulcraft Super AV
    Phase Five Matrix

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