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  1. #151
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,214

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    Quote Originally Posted by goose View Post
    Yeah, what he said. I am not sure exactly what type of "technical data" you want because I can spit a bunch of numbers out and truth is you can't probably prove them right or wrong. But what I can tell you is we spent a LOT of time driving the boats and you need to do the same. The theory behind the transmission is we were wanting to spin a bigger prop. Back in the day when boats were not as heavy and the engines did not have as much power, there was no need to spin a larger diameter prop. The boat didn't need it and the engine couldn't handle it. But now with the boats we have, the engine CAN handle it AND the boats need it. If you notice, that has definitely been the trend and we were not the only people to play with transmission ratios. The problem is everything is a tradeoff in propulsion. What we have found is the 1.76 is the best tradeoff we can see right now. With a 2.0 or larger ratio, you can run a larger prop. BUT, to get clearance under the boat you have to change the strut angle or something different. When you do that, you lose efficiency. Also, going to that requires a larger shaft, different shaft materials and other changes. If not done correctly, all that can be bad. Not trying to start any fights, but some people have had issues with that. By using the 1.76 ratio, we can turn a 15.5-16 inch prop using the same strut angles and still have proper clearance. AND with some testing, we now have 3 pitch options to go with the larger prop. For max low end, we offer the 15.5x15. For general purpose we offer the 15.5x16.5. For higher top end and lower rpm, we offer the 15.5x18.

    Personally I ran the 15.5x18 all year this year. I love it! On the R&D Kaiyen I can get the boat about 43 mph unloaded and when loaded down for surfing it gets on plane good but really runs lower RPM's. The general idea is as you go down in pitch, you can get more weight on plane at wakeboarding speeds. Between the 15.5x18 and the 15.5x15, you can probably get about 1500lbs on plane with similar performance. If you are wakeboarding with 5000lbs or more and you do that often then maybe the 15.5x15 is the better prop for you. However, as you go up in pitch you gain speed AND lower rpms. You gain about 2 mph per pitch change. So, on a boat where you might get 42 or 43, the 16.5 is probably going to be about 40 and the 15 will be about 38. Also, as you go up in pitch, you lower rpms. Again, these numbers are rough, but I tell people about 200-300 rpm. So, if you are surfing at 3800 rpm with the 16.5, you would probably be closer to 3500-3600 with the 18. Again, everyone uses their boats differently, but some people on this forum have tried some of these props and you can probably get them to chine in with their personal examples also. For the way we use the boat, we surf a LOT, wakeboard with a lot of weight ONLY occasionally, and we sometimes go by water to a marina or different areas of the lake. By lowering the rpm at surfing, it is not only more efficient, but it lowers the noise. And then when it is time to get home or outrun a storm, the higher top speed is really nice. I have tried all the props and they all serve a purpose, just depends on what you want to be most important.

    To sum it up again, the 400 with the 1.76 is probably similar to the 450 was with the 1.5, if not better. And with the new prop options, I think it is even more drastic. We offered the 450 with 1.76 last year and if you drove a boat with 450 vs 400 there was a HUGE difference. Now, with the 1.76 and prop options, you can get closer with just the 400. Because of that, I would imagine that most boats NOT at altitude can do fine with just the 400 with 1.76 and the right prop. If you are altitude, then you still might consider the 450 because it does have more power.
    Goose,

    Thank you sir, Exactly why I asked the question. Details from Engineering is credible versus anything from Facebook.

    Many of SC boat owners are gearheads or Engineers that crave data.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Supra SA 400
    Michigan

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    189

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason1973 View Post
    question is, why hasn't anyone done the 1:76 from the start? why do we even have 1.5. Not like there is a material cost difference.
    Just for the record, I am not really an engine or prop specialist, but in the past, we didn't really need the 1.76. The gear ratio and prop have to go hand in hand. In the past, the 1.5 was the best tradeoff because we had the right props to match it along with the boat sizes. 20 years ago, the majority of boats were sold with 1 or 1.25 gear ratio. Because again, at that time they had the right props to match it. A larger prop is NOT always the best solution. As I said before, everything is a tradeoff. A large prop can give more torque, but sometimes a smaller prop gives more speed. Also, a larger prop without the power to turn it is not effiecient. Same as a small prop that just slips.

    That is why I explained the props and the transmission. I am sure with time we will find even better solutions, but these things take a little time. And there is actually a material cost difference. The props are more expensive and the transmissions are a little more expensive too. If the 1.76 takes over the market then higher volumes can probably get the 1.76 transmission close in price to 1.5, but a larger prop has more material and is more expensive. Also, the standard prop for the 1.5 was actually a hand finished prop. The 15.5 props are CNC cut.
    Matt Brown
    Product Development Manager

  3. #153
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,214

    Default 2020 Models Supra New Features - Speculations?

    Saw a new 2020 SL at dealer today.

    There is a badass new metallic black color!!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by larry_arizona; 08-03-2019 at 04:52 PM.
    2018 Supra SA 400
    Michigan

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Nor Cal Central Valley
    Posts
    32

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry_arizona View Post
    Saw a new 2020 SL at dealer today.

    There is a badass new metallic black color!!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ..and you didnít take a pic?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Mojo Pro
    Intense Green

  5. #155
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,214

    Default 2020 Models Supra New Features - Speculations?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2018MojoPro View Post
    ..and you didnít take a pic?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not sure itís ďallowedĒ yet.

    I do have a picture

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Supra SA 400
    Michigan

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    304

    Default

    Iíd say if itís at the dealer surely the public can see it


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  7. #157
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    1,245

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by larry_arizona View Post
    Saw a new 2020 SL at dealer today.

    There is a badass new metallic black color!!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Local dealer had a 2020 SL. That new black is sweet.

    Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk
    2007 Supra SSV 22'

  8. #158
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MJHSupra View Post
    Local dealer had a 2020 SL. That new black is sweet.

    Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk
    There are 4 black color options now


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Supra SA 400
    Michigan

  9. #159

    Default

    Every other boat dealer has announced their 2020 lineups and changes. Why is Supra taking so long to announce theirs?

    Can we see the new goods now please??


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Supra SL550 with 850lbs of lead wake
    2017 Supra SA400 (Sold)
    2016 Moomba Mojo Surf Edition (Sold)
    2017 Ford F250 Super Duty(Sold)
    2019 Ford F250 Super Duty
    Soulcraft Vodoo
    Soulcraft Jordi Pro
    Phase Five Matrix

  10. #160
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    I am guessing this week


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Supra SA 400
    Michigan

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