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  1. #61
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    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevatedconcept View Post
    I roll 1k in lead 400 mid ship and 600 in the bow, it doesn’t move. I run 650 pnp in the rear. I do this because of two reasons. I go out with a light crew 1-2 religiously and I don’t want this boat to ever lose a demo. Which it doesn’t.

    In your neck of the woods this may not be the case or any of your concern but the name of the game for most consumers in my area? “It’s about the biggest wave, if this boat has the biggest wave I’m in”

    Couple that with some of the big factory ballasted boats out, I have to even the playing field.

    I do that with Pnp and lead. And I don’t lose. Ever.
    I leave lots of lead in the Makai too. It does not give 2 sh!ts. Huge boat, huge freeboard, and the 450. I basically bring it up to the equivalent weight of an empty SE with a little lead in it. And you could store a football team’s equipment in that boat. Insane caverns of storage.


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  2. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
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    112

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    I haven't been into boating as long as a lot of people on this forum...but what I will say is that every boat i have been on requires additional weight from stock...even the top end boats! If you think you can get a boat and run 100% stock...you are fooling yourself for a variety of reasons(aftermarket opportunity, but primarily weight restrictions)


    Talking of the SL with hands tied...what I will say is the following:

    1) The Garcia family has that goofy wave dialed!
    2) Part of running it stock with autowake was proving a point on how awesome that wave is stock!


    Personally if I were to buy any boat out there...it would be a 2018 or newer Supra SL...the finish coupled with the surf system technology, wave quality, and boat size is so darn good for me personally...that I would definitely make it happen if money wasn't an object in the equation!

    As far as the boards go...some thoughts on boards i tried:

    1) LibTech's - Not bad boards....but they are indestructible!

    2) Zombie Boards were FAST!

    3) I ended up buy a Soulcraft Secret Weapon after the event that I have yet to try...but should tell you what I thought of that board!

    4) Tried a selection of BluSurf, Varials, HyperLite, Victoria Skims, etc....but what stuck out to me were the Zombie and Soulcraft boards!
    2017 Mondo

  3. #63
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    Aug 2017
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    1,008

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcredible View Post
    I haven't been into boating as long as a lot of people on this forum...but what I will say is that every boat i have been on requires additional weight from stock...even the top end boats! If you think you can get a boat and run 100% stock...you are fooling yourself for a variety of reasons(aftermarket opportunity, but primarily weight restrictions)


    Talking of the SL with hands tied...what I will say is the following:

    1) The Garcia family has that goofy wave dialed!
    2) Part of running it stock with autowake was proving a point on how awesome that wave is stock!


    Personally if I were to buy any boat out there...it would be a 2018 or newer Supra SL...the finish coupled with the surf system technology, wave quality, and boat size is so darn good for me personally...that I would definitely make it happen if money wasn't an object in the equation!

    As far as the boards go...some thoughts on boards i tried:

    1) LibTech's - Not bad boards....but they are indestructible!

    2) Zombie Boards were FAST!

    3) I ended up buy a Soulcraft Secret Weapon after the event that I have yet to try...but should tell you what I thought of that board!

    4) Tried a selection of BluSurf, Varials, HyperLite, Victoria Skims, etc....but what stuck out to me were the Zombie and Soulcraft boards!
    Good post. Good feedback!

    The Weapon is wildly popular for a reason!

    Also heard good things of Zombie Next Level.

    Handbuilt Chaos customs are freaking sick too. Not sure Nick sent out those—I didn’t see any in vid. I saw what appeared to be a couple bamboo Sixers which are also sweet wips.


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  4. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    487

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota4ce View Post
    You bet—although I would submit there’s not much heavy hitting here. It’s all stuff that comes up continually over and over. People are mistaken to think there is a magical silver bullet to making a big ass surf wave. Hull designs, surf systems.....they’re cool, but unfortunately they’re not THAT meaningful. 80% of the factors are non-manipulable laws of physics. The rest is frosting, convenience, style points. Hulls need to sink. The bigger the hull the more WEIGHT it needs to sink. A pound is a pound. Buoyancy is buoyancy. No way around this.

    We can have a heavy hull, we can have a light hull, we can have lots of ballast or a medium amount, we can use a wedge....yadda yadda yadda but they all need to converge at roughly the same end point to perform comparatively.

    The point about a surf boat shootout actually having all the heavy hitters is valid if it carries the “best surfboats of 2019” title. I get that. And agree!



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    Hull shape and surf systems aren’t THAT meaningful? Man a guess a lot of really smart people wasted a ton of time developing CFD.
    '06 Outback - Gone but not forgotten
    '13 Mojo

  5. #65
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    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by muehlcj View Post
    Hull shape and surf systems aren’t THAT meaningful? Man a guess a lot of really smart people wasted a ton of time developing CFD.
    They can’t do it without the weight. Read it in context and it makes sense. They all need to displace a boatload of water first. Pun intended.

    Give me a suckgate or 3, a cement truck, and a life jacket and let’s go make a Bayliner throw a sweet surf wave. Well and maybe a helmet and an extra outboard motor.

    To further illustrate the point.



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  6. #66
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    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by muehlcj View Post
    Hull shape and surf systems aren’t THAT meaningful? Man a guess a lot of really smart people wasted a ton of time developing CFD.
    Here’s another way to maybe show what I mean: with every manufacturer using roughly similar surf tabs (Malibu aside) and with widely variable hull shapes—is it a giant coincidence that they all make a clean wave once slammed/leaned and otherwise finessed into the right setup?

    How do these pre-surfing-craze hull designs even manage to make a wave?

    Here’s another one: how is GSA able to work well on basically any hull you bolt it to?


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    Last edited by dakota4ce; 03-12-2019 at 04:30 AM.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NY
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    487

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota4ce View Post
    They can’t do it without the weight. Read it in context and it makes sense. They all need to displace a boatload of water first. Pun intended.

    Give me a suckgate or 3, a cement truck, and a life jacket and let’s go make a Bayliner throw a sweet surf wave. Well and maybe a helmet and an extra outboard motor.

    To further illustrate the point.



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    I don’t disagree that weight is an overwhelmed factor. However if you have a hull a and a surf system that doesn’t work in concert with your weight for equation then you are adding more weight to overcome your Hull and SS.

    I think what JMV is saying is work smarter not harder.

    That said I’m the first person to say something if every square inch of a boat isn’t full of ballast and lead. Kind of the pot calling the kettle black here - hahahahaha
    '06 Outback - Gone but not forgotten
    '13 Mojo

  8. #68
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    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by muehlcj View Post
    I don’t disagree that weight is an overwhelmed factor. However if you have a hull a and a surf system that doesn’t work in concert with your weight for equation then you are adding more weight to overcome your Hull and SS.

    I think what JMV is saying is work smarter not harder.

    That said I’m the first person to say something if every square inch of a boat isn’t full of ballast and lead. Kind of the pot calling the kettle black here - hahahahaha
    Except it’s really pretty linear—work smarter not harder doesn’t really play. There’s no way to fool the water into making a massive wave. You have to move it first, so it “springs back” and makes your wave. Move more, get more. Hull depth is the main factor.

    Your main statement was that adding 1000# to a factory system should make a tsunami. Take the PB Makai as an example. It had 1000# in it. But it STILL was 1200# LIGHTER than the Fi.....

    That’s not going to be a fair wave comparison. Give that Makai the missing 1200# and then you have a fair contest.




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  9. #69
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    Apr 2011
    Location
    NY
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    487

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota4ce View Post
    Except it’s really pretty linear—work smarter not harder doesn’t really play. There’s no way to fool the water into making a massive wave. You have to move it first, so it “springs back” and makes your wave. Move more, get more. Hull depth is the main factor.

    Your main statement was that adding 1000# to a factory system should make a tsunami. Take the PB Makai as an example. It had 1000# in it. But it STILL was 1200# LIGHTER than the Fi.....

    That’s not going to be a fair wave comparison. Give that Makai the missing 1200# and then you have a fair contest.




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    Consider designing a hull and surf system that doesn’t create as much lift that needs to be counteracted by weight - smarter not harder

    So you are saying someone should drop six figures on a Moomba then they have to add 2000 + lbs of lead to maximize the wave? I’m a loyal Moomba customer and I say no thanks l.
    '06 Outback - Gone but not forgotten
    '13 Mojo

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    1,335

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcredible View Post
    As far as the boards go...some thoughts on boards i tried
    !
    Too bad the event did not have a method where the riders could post their comments on some of these boards. Like you did.

    How many different boards did you get to ride - 6 to 8? If I recall, each rider gets 2 morning and 2 afternoon sets for 2 days? And 8 different boats to try.


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    2018 Supra SL400

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