How/Why is GPS speed control supposedly better? I love paddlewheel.

[trayson]

Okay, I've been having a discussion and I honestly can't figure out WHY or HOW that GPS speed control would be better in any way than paddlewheel.

First off, I'll say that I'm even more in love with paddlewheel because 90% of my riding is done on a river with current. That said, my paddlewheel is truly "Set it and Forget it". I have presets for "surf" at 10.0mph and "Wakeboard" at 21.5mph and "ski" at 30mph, etc. (FWIW, I have PP Wakeboard Pro).

I don't have to evaluate the speed of the river current and determine whether we're going to go upstream or downstream and then do the math to add or subtract the current speed depending on which way we wanna go.

With the GPS boats I've been in, we've lost signal going under bridges (and then the boat launches up to the speed that the Throttle is at). I've had issues where the GPS speed control was set to a particular direction and the boat was pointed sideways because it naturally gets pushed around by wind/rollers/current. Trying to take off in a turn caused the boat to bog down miserably and it stayed at like 3-5 mph until the GPS could figure itself out and finally accelerate.

Remember when Perfect Pass was invented and they called it the "marriage saver"? Because you could set it and not require your driver to have to make any adjustments. Not that the current is 1.7mph and the optimal speed is REALLY 10.9 but to adjust for current, you have to either add or subtract... And don't forget to 'carry the one' when adding those decimals! And what if the current changes while you're out riding? Better be ready to adjust your settings. And don't go under that bridge or make a turn with the boat and expect you to be able to keep your rider with a consistent pull...

Supposedly paddlewheel has its limitations... but in almost 1000 hours of boat usage, I haven't found them. I've never had surging. I've never had a paddlewheel wear out, break, or spontaneously combust. I've never had the wheel get jammed or clogged. I've had it stop transmitting the signal, but that's because a wire broke, not because of the sender itself. (a wire could just as easily break on a GPS sender).

But as passionate as I am for paddlewheel, I'm open to hearing situations where GPS is actually better. Discuss.

[parrothd]

Okay, I've been having a discussion and I honestly can't figure out WHY or HOW that GPS speed control would be better in any way than paddlewheel.

First off, I'll say that I'm even more in love with paddlewheel because 90% of my riding is done on a river with current. That said, my paddlewheel is truly "Set it and Forget it". I have presets for "surf" at 10.0mph and "Wakeboard" at 21.5mph and "ski" at 30mph, etc. (FWIW, I have PP Wakeboard Pro).

I don't have to evaluate the speed of the river current and determine whether we're going to go upstream or downstream and then do the math to add or subtract the current speed depending on which way we wanna go.

With the GPS boats I've been in, we've lost signal going under bridges (and then the boat launches up to the speed that the Throttle is at). I've had issues where the GPS speed control was set to a particular direction and the boat was pointed sideways because it naturally gets pushed around by wind/rollers/current. Trying to take off in a turn caused the boat to bog down miserably and it stayed at like 3-5 mph until the GPS could figure itself out and finally accelerate.

Remember when Perfect Pass was invented and they called it the "marriage saver"? Because you could set it and not require your driver to have to make any adjustments. Not that the current is 1.7mph and the optimal speed is REALLY 10.9 but to adjust for current, you have to either add or subtract... And don't forget to 'carry the one' when adding those decimals! And what if the current changes while you're out riding? Better be ready to adjust your settings. And don't go under that bridge or make a turn with the boat and expect you to be able to keep your rider with a consistent pull...

Supposedly paddlewheel has its limitations... but in almost 1000 hours of boat usage, I haven't found them. I've never had surging. I've never had a paddlewheel wear out, break, or spontaneously combust. I've never had the wheel get jammed or clogged. I've had it stop transmitting the signal, but that's because a wire broke, not because of the sender itself. (a wire could just as easily break on a GPS sender).

But as passionate as I am for paddlewheel, I'm open to hearing situations where GPS is actually better. Discuss.

It costs more and they call it an "upgrade" so people think it's better. GPS is pretty inaccurate, you need a lot of locked in satlights and there's lag when you do speed changes but the software smooths those out so you don't notice it. Except when you go under a bridge and it freaking takes off like a bat outta hell. Seriously have to warn people about that.. Lol

We ride in a dirty log filled river, never had an issue with paddle, it would suck having a GPS version on the river though. My new craz has the paddle wheel.

[bergermaister]

For me I didn't have to drill another big hole under the water line - no existing paddle to tap into. PerfectPass Stargazer was a simple install and maintenance free for the last 7 years.

I don't really care if the GPS speed is spot on to actual speed as long as it is consistent and maintains whatever it's set at. Are we surfing at 10.1 or 10.7? Don't really care as long as the wave looks good and it's reproducible. Same with wake boarding. But it seems to me that we are adjusting speed a little rider by rider anyway with different abilities and who is sitting where when they get back in the boat.

We have yet to experience the loss of signal under a bridge and taking off. I'll have to give that one a try.

Strong river currents will cause you to change surf speeds to accommodate going up or down stream as discussed a couple dozen times before, but not a big deal in my book.

[trayson]

For me I didn't have to drill another big hole under the water line - no existing paddle to tap into. PerfectPass Stargazer was a simple install and maintenance free for the last 7 years.

I don't really care if the GPS speed is spot on to actual speed as long as it is consistent and maintains whatever it's set at. Are we surfing at 10.1 or 10.7? Don't really care as long as the wave looks good and it's reproducible. Same with wake boarding. But it seems to me that we are adjusting speed a little rider by rider anyway with different abilities and who is sitting where when they get back in the boat.

We have yet to experience the loss of signal under a bridge and taking off. I'll have to give that one a try.

Strong river currents will cause you to change surf speeds to accommodate going up or down stream as discussed a couple dozen times before, but not a big deal in my book.

Well, I can't figure that one out either. I had to put in 3 big thru-hulls when I gutted and upgraded my ballast system. They haven't leaked a drop. I had to drill 3 holes to put in a temp sensor for my depth gauge that has that functionality. So what. I think that the 3m 5200 will live longer than I will. It's like people that won't mount a front license plate because they don't want to drill a hole in their bumper that they'll never see because it's covered by the front plate! LOLOL

so for you it's like when cell phones "upgrade" and you just accept it because it's what you're forced to swallow and it's not that big of pill? Like when I-phones get rid of headphone jacks or when phones change to different charging plugs or when phones stop having removable batteries? It's an "upgrade" because they say so.

And who's to say that a paddlewheel install wouldn't have been maint free? I have yet to hear of a paddlewheel problem being posted on this forum. But yeah, I can get that on a NEW install, not having to run wires into the bilge would be easier. I still haven't heard an usability argument where GPS works BETTER. Just that GPS isn't "that bad" or GPS isn't "that hard" to constantly adjust.

That said, go surfing in downtown portland under the various bridges. pretty much every time we've rode with GPS it loses signal. And trust me, it's awesome to set the Perfect pass at 10.0 and not care about where we are, what direction we're going, or any of that. You sound like you're adjusting your speed all the time. I rarely if ever adjust mine.

[Broke Pilot]

Paddle wheel is great, but I’ll be the devils advocate and say I’ll never not have the gps speedo again. It’s incredible. I’ve never had issues with it dropping out under a bridge. It has a river mode.
It has had a few hiccups where it loses signal (I guess that’s what happening) but it doesn’t race to the throttle. Mine actually decelerates until it catches back up. Which is always fun to watch the terror in the surfers eyes as they get sling towards the boat! Lmao

Now then, here’s the major difference, my boat being newer also has a drive by wire throttle. It’s instantaneous changes. It never lets the boat get more than .2mph off the set speed. Having an electronic throttle body just lets the motor fine tune itself so much easier. If it was a cable actuated TB, yea I’d say paddle wheel all the way.
And having a steering wheel mounted switch to make speed changes on the fly is the s@%t!

[jcarter20]

I think changing the speed all the time would be a huge pain in the ass. Call me crazy, but I can tell a difference between surfing at 11.2 and 11.4 behind my boat. I opted for the paddle wheel because I saw no advantages in GPS. I mostly boat on lakes, but we do have the Ohio River fairly close. I thought we might boat there some, so that was my deciding factor. For the record, my buddy had a Malibu with GPS, to my knowledge he has never lost signal or had any issues with speeds. However, his boat has never seen the river either.


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[trayson]

Paddle wheel is great, but I’ll be the devils advocate and say I’ll never not have the gps speedo again. It’s incredible. I’ve never had issues with it dropping out under a bridge. It has a river mode.
It has had a few hiccups where it loses signal (I guess that’s what happening) but it doesn’t race to the throttle. Mine actually decelerates until it catches back up. Which is always fun to watch the terror in the surfers eyes as they get sling towards the boat! Lmao

Now then, here’s the major difference, my boat being newer also has a drive by wire throttle. It’s instantaneous changes. It never lets the boat get more than .2mph off the set speed. Having an electronic throttle body just lets the motor fine tune itself so much easier. If it was a cable actuated TB, yea I’d say paddle wheel all the way.
And having a steering wheel mounted switch to make speed changes on the fly is the s@%t!

BUT, is it REALLY the GPS Measurement device that's doing your instantaneous speed control and never getting more than .2 off? I have DBW in my 2008 with my paddlewheel speed control. It sounds like what you're really describing is a more aggressive KDW (throttle pull rate). it's a setting in Perfect pass where you can determine how aggressively the throttle will seek your desired speed. And one might also speculate that the simple fact that you have a more powerful engine with an agressive prop enables you to stay on speed easier. I wouldn't think that the speed measurement device would be the key factor. In fact, we all know that there is flat out GPS lag in measurement of speed and therefore I would argue that GPS might be less accurate in some regards... Isn't there lag in the GPS measurement of your flight speed changes?

For your speed control to have "river mode" doesn't that mean that it DOES have a paddlewheel that it actually uses to suppliment (or override) that GPS?

The ones I've been on with GPS, when they lose signal it's literally like turning off the speed control and the boat defaults to wherever the throttle lever is. We all just throw down to the lever to farther than it needs to be, right? So most boats start running like a raped ape!

[trayson]

I think changing the speed all the time would be a huge pain in the ass. Call me crazy, but I can tell a difference between surfing at 11.2 and 11.4 behind my boat. I opted for the paddle wheel because I saw no advantages in GPS. I mostly boat on lakes, but we do have the Ohio River fairly close. I thought we might boat there some, so that was my deciding factor. For the record, my buddy had a Malibu with GPS, to my knowledge he has never lost signal or had any issues with speeds. However, his boat has never seen the river either.


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Absolutely. I can most certainly tell the difference between 10.0 vs 10.3 vs 10.5

The Boats that have lost signal under bridges have been a 2015 G23 and also a 2009 Supra 24ssv. Obviously not all GPS units are created equal, especially since manufacturers have simply started integrating speed control into their boat computer systems rather than using add on systems like Perfect Pass.

[KnoxMojo]

They are both useful. I find GPS works better for wakeboarding when loading the line, edging hard and driving doubles. I like paddlewheel for surfing. Not towing, don't care. The newer 0 off systems have a river mode that you can click for going up or down stream. Either way, they are both better than doing it by hand.

[trayson]

I find GPS works better for wakeboarding when loading the line, edging hard and driving doubles. .

Thank you. That's the first argument that actually makes sense.