Problems with GIII Upgrade (Pump Hose Connection & Through-Hulls)

[Hayden]

So two issues came up last night:

1) I had finished my through-hulls on Sunday and let them sit for a couple days for the silicon adhesive to cure. When I attached the new valves on and tightened down, the outer "male" end started to slip and turn with the inner valve I had just attached. So far it's slipped about a quarter turn, I left it after that hoping to get advice here or from Wakemakers. It happened on both of my new through-hulls. Are those seals now effectively broken? I need to remove the fittings, scrape off the adhesive and redo? To be clear the inner hold down nut, which I also put some silicon on, did not move, just the outer.

As a follow-up question to that, do you need 2 people to do this part of the install? One guy under the boat with some sort of tool locked on the inside edges of the through-hull fitting, preventing it from turning, and one guy on the inside with a wrench tightening down the inner nut? Did I just go get too aggressive trying for a tight fit with my valves? I got them to hand tight and then took a wrench for another turn or so.

2) I moved on after that and got all my 1" ballast hose routed throughout. I then tried to work the hose onto the brass inlet/outlet of the Johnson Pumps. What techniques are people using to do this? I had already mounted the pumps above my V drive, on the back of the wall separator but could not get the hose all the way onto the brass nozzles. I'd get maybe 1/2" onto the nozzle and then the white-hardened portion of the hose cross section would catch and jam on the pump nozzles outer lip. The harder you tried to manhandle it, the more of ridge would form and deform the hose.

I tried using a heatgun, but found that although it helped make the end more flexible, it would then deform the pipe and create, new, bumps/ridges that would further impede.

I tried using some dishwashing soap to lubricate both the hose and the fitting. It didn't seem to make much difference or dried too quickly, I'm not sure.

Is there a tool or method that I'm missing with these brass nozzles? Never had such difficulty with ballast fittings before. It feels as if the nozzles are made for 1 1/8" diameter ballast hose.

[Stazi]

You really should use 3M 4200 or 5200 for sealing the through hulls to the boat. Also if you look inside of the through hulls you should see a couple of ridges 180° apart from each other, if you find the right width wrench, you can jam it into the through hulls and hold it against those ridges while someone inside the boat tightens the nuts.

I use silicone spray to lubricate the inside of the hose as well heat on the hose. Don’t heat the pump barb.


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[gmarkham1]

For the through hulls, I would feel more confident that I wouldn't have issues if I just started over at this point. You are probably OK, but it will always be in the back of your head.

When you put them back in consider putting your connecting valves/fittings on while the silicone is still fresh so any movement would not affect the seal, I also found it helpful to have them in place to ensure that if I am using an elbow, it is pointed in the direction I want it to be when everything is done. An extra hand underneath with a tool inserted into the hole that catches on the nubs is nice, but I did not have that luxury.

For the barbed fittings, I think it is easiest to put them on the barbed fittings before the pumps are mounted so you can work both the hose and the pump at the same time. Using a blow dryer for heat did assist in getting the tubing flexible enough to easily go over the barb on the pump, though I actually had more issues with the barbed flow rite fittings to the bag then I did the pump.

I am guessing you used a blade of some sort to cut the tubing, I decided to spend the $14 at the local hardware store and purchased a tube cutter, much cleaner and easier to cut and easier to work with afterwards as there are no barbs to catch on. here is a link to the one I purchased, sure you can find something local.
https://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...4428688236.htm

[Hayden]

Quick follow up on this...

I talked to Wakemakers this morning and they said that because I'm in Canada and we're still seeing 0 degrees C (32F) overnight, that it's likely that I needed to give a few additional days for the adhesive they supply (Attwood) to setup. He commented that it should be rock/glass solid when it's done. Mine was still gel/tacky after +30 hours. He said if I only turned it a bit and there's not much movement/mess that I could just reseal with more but he said if did turn it a bunch and the silicone has bunched up, then I should pull it out, scrape and redo. He said they do get calls on this, and that it's the curing temperature that is the issue.

Edit: He also mentioned, you should not need two people - use one hand to grip the through-hull threads coming up and then use the other hand on a wrench to tighten down the nut. Don't need much strength on this and as soon as the threaded fitting is slipping in your grip hand, you're good.

With regards to the hose fitting, it sounds like it was a case of a novice installer (me) and that I just need to be more patient with the heat gun, get more even heating all the way around the hose to prevent one part of the hose from catching on the barb. He also mentioned that I shouldn't need any lubricant, (soap/spray/etc), and that heat gun is all that is required.

Stazi, Gmarkham, appreciate the comments, thanks. Back at it tomorrow night.

[bsharer]

Yes the heat gun, and a glove. Heat up the hose a tad longer than the barb length and be ready to put it on the fitting right away. It should go on easy about 1/4 or more of the way. Then grab the end of the hose and pull it up the barb with the gloved hand while you push the hose the rest of the way on with the other. If you just try to push the hose on the hose will collapse/deform because it will be so soft if you got it hot enough. If you don't heat it enough the inner support band will break and split the hose.

[MJHSupra]

You really should use 3M 4200 or 5200 for sealing the through hulls to the boat.
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I agree. Did wakemakers give you this? If so, you are good to go.

https://www.wakemakers.com/3m-4000-marine-adhesive.html




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[MLA]

Im going to disagree with some above advise. 1 or 2 people id not so much the point, but you cannot effectively tighten down a ball valve to a thru-hull without properly holding the thru-hull. Holding it with your finger is not enough. Cured sealer, is not enough. You need to securely hold the thru-hull while tightening the ball-valve. best advice, do this all in one step while the sealer is fresh and uncured, not later.

Cold temps can slow the cure. However, what ever curing took place, has not been compromised when that thru-hull rotated. Take it out, start over. If you are working in temps that are outside of the products recommendations, do what you can to change environments. Temps not only slow/speed up curing, but they can effect the integrity once cured.

For your hose connections, yes, a heat gun helps, but rather then silicone spray, use a dab of your supplied below-waterline sealer smeared on the tip of the bard fitting. Breaks the friction of the hot hose on the plastic fitting but adds another layer of sealing.

[Hayden]

If you don't heat it enough the inner support band will break and split the hose.

This is very close to what was happening. The inner, white support wasn't breaking though, it wasn't getting heated enough (I think) and so wasn't bending, and was blocking as I tried to push it onto the pumps barb. Good tip on the gloves with pull and push, I bet that will do it.

Did wakemakers give you this? If so, you are good to go.

https://www.wakemakers.com/3m-4000-marine-adhesive.html

Wakemakers supplied me with Attwood silicone adhesive sealant. I'll see if I can get the 3M-4200.

Im going to disagree with some above advise. 1 or 2 people id not so much the point, but you cannot effectively tighten down a ball valve to a thru-hull without properly holding the thru-hull. Holding it with your finger is not enough. Cured sealer, is not enough. You need to securely hold the thru-hull while tightening the ball-valve. best advice, do this all in one step while the sealer is fresh and uncured, not later.

My sense from talking to the guy is that you shouldn't think of needing it to be really locked down to the hull the way you would with main supports for your tower, etc. He was saying that it's only about 3 psi of water pressure and locking down too much on the fiberglass could cause structural damage to it. He may have been trying to protect me from myself though if I've already overtightened once. I agree with what you're saying, and the through hull having those rails inside for that purpose seems like what was intended. Doing it right after you put the sealant on and using a tool to brace the through hull, (plus a wrench for the nut), is how I plan to do it....just not too tight.

[parrothd]

As otherwise have said you just need it snug, the 4200 makes the seal, not how tight it is. Just loosen it a tad and use your finger to smear a small amount of 4200 on the fitting then snug it back up and wait. I also put a small amount on the inside between the nut and hull to glue the nut in place. ��

[MLA]

Wakemakers supplied me with Attwood silicone adhesive sealant. I'll see if I can get the 3M-4200.

You dont necessarily need 3m 4200. Its just one of a dozen proper products that can be used. Instead, you need to see what the applications are of the product you already have. Is it for below waterline applications? Whats its setup and cure time? Are you working in its recommended temp range?

My sense from talking to the guy is that you shouldn't think of needing it to be really locked down to the hull the way you would with main supports for your tower, etc. He was saying that it's only about 3 psi of water pressure and locking down too much on the fiberglass could cause structural damage to it. He may have been trying to protect me from myself though if I've already overtightened once. I agree with what you're saying, and the through hull having those rails inside for that purpose seems like what was intended. Doing it right after you put the sealant on and using a tool to brace the through hull, (plus a wrench for the nut), is how I plan to do it....just not too tight.

The 3 PSI of water pressure is not what you need to be concerned with, but the flow rate of the lake water rushing in, if there is a failure. With that said, I highly doubt anyone is going to be able to tighten down a thru-hull's jam nut with enough force to damage the hull. Even with the proper thru-hull holding tool and wrench.

With that said. Unless im misunderstanding your thread, you had an issue with ball valve turning the thru-hull when you were tightening the ball valve to the thru-hull. To properly tighten the self-sealing tapered pipe thread ball valve to the thru-hull, you have to hold the thru-hull with more then the average hand. Hand tight ball valve is not enough. 3 PSI or not.