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  1. #21
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    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by muehlcj View Post
    I’m aware that the OP was in regard to the ‘08 LSV - to that I say there isn’t a manual flow option out there that will work for you.

    To your blanket statement about bolting something on a boat in ‘17 you are completely off the mark. If my ‘13 mojo didn’t have manual flow and my options were a factory system installed by a dealer for $1000-$1500 or $200 suck gate or $5000 automated system I’m going to go with the manual flow all day. Nothing like trying suction cupping something to a 70k boat when there are better cleaner options.
    Let me get this straight: you would pay $1500 to have manual flow installed on a boat right now in 2017? Okay....by "bolting something" I unequivocally meant manual flow.

    If that is a yes, I guess that is what I was referring to, and I disagree. I would never do that in 4000 risings of the sun. I would fabricate a fully automated goose slapper system (fake surfgate) for around $1000-1500 (check out MB forums), I would buy Wavecontrol on a 20% discount for $3200, or I would save 15 tanks of gas worth of money and use a good suckgate. Not sure what the $5000 system you reference is.

    Manual flow to me is roughly akin to a suckgate, except less versatile and functional--even less "clean." The fact that manual flow is "factory" and "dealer installed" means little to me, because it is the 2013 attempt at a surf system when leaps have been made since then. Think: iPhone 4. Factory systems from then are obsolete for the most part--every major manufacturer has changed them significantly or even drastically. And don't get me started about dealer installed. In my adventures I have learned that 90% of dealers don't know sh*t about surfing, surf systems, ballast, wave creation, surfboards, etc etc etc. The expertise is almost all out here in the user community. In fact, many factory cues for changes are derived from user engineering. And recipes for dialing are 1000% out here in the minds of the users.

    Did manual flow do the trick back then? Yes, it pretty much did with enough weight and dialing. It was a good iPhone 4. Now we are on to the X and not looking back.

    AND TO CLARIFY, I WOULD NOT REMOVE A FUNCTIONING MANUAL FLOW FROM A BOAT WHERE I HAVE IT DIALED AND IT IS WORKING FOR ME. It clearly works well on many boats and gets lots of people great waves. I just would not seek one out for lots more money than a suckgate.
    Last edited by dakota4ce; 11-21-2017 at 09:59 PM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Keuka Lake, NY
    Posts
    7,692

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    FWIW I would not pay for a 250 suck gate that you can make for less than 50bucks and a two beer job. I never could get the suck gate to work on my 12 xlv due to graphics so the old fashion 20 ghetto gate works wonders as created a great wave ��. So to the op I would not search for the manual flow but try a ghetto gate first , then to a suck gate My.02
    A Day at the Lake...Priceless
    A Day in Powder...Endless


    Joe V
    2012 Möbius XLV~ Loaded & Exiled
    2007 Outback V ~ sold

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,382

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmvotto View Post
    FWIW I would not pay for a 250 suck gate that you can make for less than 50bucks and a two beer job. I never could get the suck gate to work on my 12 xlv due to graphics so the old fashion 20 ghetto gate works wonders as created a great wave ��. So to the op I would not search for the manual flow but try a ghetto gate first , then to a suck gate My.02
    Great point!


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  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    487

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota4ce View Post
    Let me get this straight: you would pay $1500 to have manual flow installed on a boat right now in 2017? Okay....by "bolting something" I unequivocally meant manual flow.

    If that is a yes, I guess that is what I was referring to, and I disagree. I would never do that in 4000 risings of the sun. I would fabricate a fully automated goose slapper system (fake surfgate) for around $1000-1500 (check out MB forums), I would buy Wavecontrol on a 20% discount for $3200, or I would save 15 tanks of gas worth of money and use a good suckgate. Not sure what the $5000 system you reference is.

    Manual flow to me is roughly akin to a suckgate, except less versatile and functional--even less "clean." The fact that manual flow is "factory" and "dealer installed" means little to me, because it is the 2013 attempt at a surf system when leaps have been made since then. Think: iPhone 4. Factory systems from then are obsolete for the most part--every major manufacturer has changed them significantly or even drastically. And don't get me started about dealer installed. In my adventures I have learned that 90% of dealers don't know sh*t about surfing, surf systems, ballast, wave creation, surfboards, etc etc etc. The expertise is almost all out here in the user community. In fact, many factory cues for changes are derived from user engineering. And recipes for dialing are 1000% out here in the minds of the users.

    Did manual flow do the trick back then? Yes, it pretty much did with enough weight and dialing. It was a good iPhone 4. Now we are on to the X and not looking back.

    AND TO CLARIFY, I WOULD NOT REMOVE A FUNCTIONING MANUAL FLOW FROM A BOAT WHERE I HAVE IT DIALED AND IT IS WORKING FOR ME. It clearly works well on many boats and gets lots of people great waves. I just would not seek one out for lots more money than a suckgate.
    Yes - yes I believe he best bang for your buck is manual flow. I’ve had it for four years now. Curious to know what your experience with it is?

    Who’s installing your wave control? I also have first hand experience how well that fits up without any extra parts. Also curious to know how your factory hull warranty is going to hold up after you’ve lagged a bunch of aftermarket components from your “surf gate” you plan to design, fab and install over what I could only guess might take 6 months if done correctly.

    Your anolgy about the iPhone doesn’t apply. The suck gate is like putting a plastic phone case from a kiosk at the mall on a iPhone 4 and calling it better. I’m not sure you understand that the suck gate is using the exact same tech as manual flow, surfgate and others. It’s slowing the flow around one side of the boat and delaying the convergence of the water allowing the wave to form. Hardly a breakthrough in hydrodynamics.

    You say back then but nothing in the physics has changed from ‘12 or whenever SG debut- just fancier contol systems.
    '06 Outback - Gone but not forgotten
    '13 Mojo

  5. #25
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    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,382

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    Ok sounds like I have messed with the wrong cowboy. I think I may snag some manual flow plates for my Supra SE.

    I installed my own Wavecontrol on my own 2013 MB Sports F24. Piece of cake. Maybe 10 hours? In my garage. Beautiful system.

    I also installed a goose slapper aka fake surf gate system on my friends MB B52 21 WB last spring. After a week of ordering a few parts, I installed it in about 6 hours. Just a tad shy of 6 months. He makes such a killer wave now. 650s in the rear compartments and amazingly I plumbed l those on reversibles also.

    I understand the physics. I also understand that device efficiency has increased dramatically. You should see Swell 2.0 outperform original Swell. Amazingly, it’s much better. Crazy huh? On the same hull no less. Weird. And 3.0 is supposed to be even better yet.

    Rode behind a Moomba with manual flow. It was just fine. Slapped a Nauticurl on same boat, quite a bit better. Not sure why? Maybe some sort of metaphysical warp zone. It was an LSV. But the physics are the same, right? Yes, in the same way that a Chevy Cavalier and a Corvette are both cars.

    Factory hull warranty? I guess I am not too worried about my boat snapping in half due to some stainless lag screws set in 5200. Well, and most people aren’t original owners of their hulls anyway, so it’s often a moot point.

    And no, your physics explaination isn’t exactly comprehensive. Newer systems do a better job of vectoring flow to make a stronger and more shapely wave. With regard to suckgate vs manual flow this isn’t such a big deal, I concede. But suckgates work super well. And are larger, diverting more water. That’s good, right?


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  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    north texas
    Posts
    1,164

    Default orig moomba flow system?

    Anyone with the manual Moomba system take off at full speed and full ballast on third setting? Haha...quite the geyser!!

    I think it happened at least once per trip out to the lake. My kids be like uh Dad something is bad wrong back there. I am thinking hell thats why it is pulling so bad. Put it in neutral, sit my beer down, take the walk of shame to the back of the boat. Almost fall in leaning off platform to move steel plate. Bust my knuckle on the pin. Come back to drivers seat bleeding on the carpet so I could announce “we are good to go now” kids.


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    Last edited by russellsmojo; 11-22-2017 at 12:46 AM.
    2017 Supra SA

  7. #27
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    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,382

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    Lest we not forget, dearest OP, that consensus seems to be manual flow is not great on LSV hulls.

    Which is your ultimate question. Get a suckgate, save money, buy more ballast, have a blast.


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  8. #28
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    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,382

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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsmojo View Post
    Did anyone have the manual Moomba system and take off full speed and full ballast on third setting? Haha...quite the geyser!!

    I remember the first time I did. My kids were like uh Dad something is bad wrong back there.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    LOL “Something feels weird.”


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  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    487

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota4ce View Post
    Ok sounds like I have messed with the wrong cowboy. I think I may snag some manual flow plates for my Supra SE.

    I installed my own Wavecontrol on my own 2013 MB Sports F24. Piece of cake. Maybe 10 hours? In my garage. Beautiful system.

    I also installed a goose slapper aka fake surf gate system on my friends MB B52 21 WB last spring. After a week of ordering a few parts, I installed it in about 6 hours. Just a tad shy of 6 months. He makes such a killer wave now. 650s in the rear compartments and amazingly I plumbed l those on reversibles also.

    I understand the physics. I also understand that device efficiency has increased dramatically. You should see Swell 2.0 outperform original Swell. Amazingly, it’s much better. Crazy huh? On the same hull no less. Weird. And 3.0 is supposed to be even better yet.

    Rode behind a Moomba with manual flow. It was just fine. Slapped a Nauticurl on same boat, quite a bit better. Not sure why? Maybe some sort of metaphysical warp zone. It was an LSV. But the physics are the same, right? Yes, in the same way that a Chevy Cavalier and a Corvette are both cars.

    Factory hull warranty? I guess I am not too worried about my boat snapping in half due to some stainless lag screws set in 5200. Well, and most people aren’t original owners of their hulls anyway, so it’s often a moot point.

    And no, your physics explaination isn’t exactly comprehensive. Newer systems do a better job of vectoring flow to make a stronger and more shapely wave. With regard to suckgate vs manual flow this isn’t such a big deal, I concede. But suckgates work super well. And are larger, diverting more water. That’s good, right?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sounds like we are going to have to agree to disagree.

    I’m really starting to question the “manual flow 4 life” tatoo I got
    '06 Outback - Gone but not forgotten
    '13 Mojo

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ennis, TX
    Posts
    841

    Default orig moomba flow system?

    This has been very entertaining.
    Just so everyone knows, Exile is better than Wetsounds! take that!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Shane
    2016 Supra SE
    EXILED
    6 XM9 Tower
    6 Wetsounds XS650 Cabin
    1 EXILE BIG 12 DVC 2000 watt in a ported box
    1 XM 15.4
    XI 1500.1
    2 MX 30.2
    Wetsounds 420 EQ
    EXILE Blue tooth EXBT4
    Blue LEDs

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