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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    212

    Default Diesel Truck owners. need info/opinions on Deletes and Tuners

    I have a 2013 Ram Cummins 6.7 and unbeknownst to me, there is a required service to be performed every 67,500 miles that involves removing and cleaning the soot out of the EGR cooler, EGR valve, crossover tube and replacing the CCV filter (which is inside the valve cover I understand). It cost me $1,100 for the dealer to perform this service and would have been more but I had just recently replaced the fuel filters (2 of them that cost about $100 each at the parts counter). It's obvious why they don't really highlight this in their cool "look how much pipe you can haul" commercials. lol.

    In a nutshell, the EGR system pumps exhaust gas with all the soot in it, back into your intake contaminating your valve train, combustion chamber, turbo, etc. some of it gets into your oil diluting it (and potentially causing catastrophic bearing failure), it clogs up the EGR itself (hence the required cleaning) causing the engine to be less efficient over time... therefore causing you to burn MORE fuel...creating more soot/emissions etc. The DPF system has to "regen" periodically when it collects enough of the soot that's not being "burned off" in the EGR system and when it "regens" it's sending additional unburned diesel thru the combustion chamber (on a non combustion stroke) and super heats the DPF which significantly reduces your power and efficiency during a cycle, creates more NOx gas. NOx is just as bad for the environment as the particulate matter. potentially worse since the DPM is heavy and falls to earth and gets washed away and is essentially just carbon. Not to mention these components wear out over time. In the end, just because you don't see the black smoke anymore, doesn't mean the engine is any more "clean".

    So, the argument is that by removing these EPA mandated systems, and programming the truck to be more efficient will A.) allow the engine to last a LOT longer B.) cost you less in the long run on having these systems maintained and/or replaced. A new DPF system can cost up to $8000! and guess what, at least for Ram's the emissions system warranty is only 50k miles. and C.) Deleting is at a minimum no more harmful to the environment than WITH the emissions systems and potentially less harmful over time due to less fuel being consumed in the 1st place.

    Here's where it gets tricky. It's illegal to tamper with or remove factory installed emissions equipment and recommended for off-road use only. Disclaimer: I'm just educating myself on this topic.

    I'm just learning about deleting systems and tuners. Anyone here have experience w/EGR deletes, DPF deletes, and the myriad of available tuners out there that they can recommend me to look into? I've paid this truck off already and plan to have it for a LONG time. Regardless, I still like the truck and the power it has.
    Last edited by Pound; 08-17-2017 at 11:05 AM.
    2016 Craz

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Hayden Id
    Posts
    339

    Default

    I've got a 2012 ram with 200,000 on it, did the delete at 120,000 I use the h&s mini max , installed it when truck was new but ran it in factory emissions mode until the 12,000, have had no issues with it, on our fleet trucks that are rams , I would do the ccv filter at the 60,000 mark , but wait and do the the egr cleaning till the next go around at 120,000 , so far has been working out , we have a good sized fleet of them too. Tried a race me in one to save money, and it works, but it does cause problems about every 2 months or so
    2017 Craz surf auto wake
    1140 # rears wet sounds

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    159

    Default

    I had a 2008 f250 and I did the delete at about 36000 miles. I ran the minimaxx and loved it. The power increase was unreal and very tough to avoid squeezing the throttle pedal a bit. Only issue I know of now is that the EPA hit the manufacturers very hard and most now only sell tuners that are deemed street legal meaning no ability to do the delete. The only company I know of that was still selling delete program tuners was spartan but I don't know if they do Cummins motors or not.
    Rusty

    2013 Mojo

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Henderson, NV
    Posts
    5,257

    Default

    just had to have the '99 f250 v10 inspected in utah to get it registered as we're new to the state. not sure what all that entailed as all my other vehicles are new enough they don't require it. buddy sent me to a local shop that doesn't check. walked in, $20 and 10 minutes later walked out with a complete vehicle inspection and she never even left her pc. knowing it's illegal and finding the workarounds if you live in a emissions testing state is easy.

    if you're modding the truck tho, don't be one of the peckers that has a diesel truck with a 5" exhaust out the bottom that every time they step on the gas it blows out a thick cloud of black smoke right into traffic next to it. don't think most appreciate breathing that soot.

    if you were in my neck of the woods, i'd tell ya to stop in and see this guy. grantsville is a town of about 9000 people and this guy is a legend in the area. even if he does spew black soot
    http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1...king-the-part/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC3ft2RLLyM
    Last edited by sandm; 08-17-2017 at 12:50 PM.
    '06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Hayden Id
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    You can still get the mini maxx , since it has the capability to run both with factory emissions or in off road use, you do have to sign the waiver for not to be used on registered vehicle , same with most of the exhaust systems you would need to go with it. I went with the 5" turbo back with performance muffler from flow pro, price was great and the sound is perfect , no drone when towing, not much louder than factory in the cab, only gets loud when hammering down on it. Averaging 17.5 mpg running 37 13.5 toyos
    2017 Craz surf auto wake
    1140 # rears wet sounds

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    212

    Default

    Thanks for the replies. I've not found anyone yet that says they deleted and would not do it again.

    What about the various EFI Live tunes? I hear they get good reviews. I'm mostly concerned with longevity of the vehicle, and performance/sound improvements secondarily. Definitely not interested in "rollin' coal".
    I'm not sure yet if i'd go w/a full exhaust replacement, or just the tube that replaces the DPF section.
    So i'm thinking tune, EGR blanks, and cut out the DPF only. maybe not even gauges. The edge products look really cool but i just don't think i'd use much of what it does. It's not required is it?
    2016 Craz

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Gauge question depends what tune you go with.

    I did EFI Live on an LMM Duramax at 150k. Replaced injectors at 220k (mechanic claims tune did not do it, that the time frame is about right) and sold at 240k. It had the EFI Live ECM with everything deleted. I used an Edge CTS for the gauges.

    Now I'm in a Powerstroke currently under warranty. I miss having a tuned truck and now realize I was always looking at the Edge CTS. I'll go with a similar setup when its time to tune this truck. Last truck was 5" straight pipe but ill likely go with a muffler next time around.

    When I did all my work the standard recommendation was not to go more than 100'ish hp over factory on a stock transmission. I'm not sure if that is still the typical recommendation or not.

    I enjoyed the improved fuel economy and drive-ability of the tuned truck.
    2016 Moomba Mojo
    2006 Supra 24SSV - Traded

  8. #8
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    Apr 2017
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    The down pipe is full off honeycomb more restriction , I like replacing it, and exhaust bolts and clamps suck, was much easier to just replace the whole thing, I have heard great things about EFI live , have never used it though, have used some edge products in the past and have had good luck with them as well, my reason for the mini maxx is it is easy to use, you get 4 gauges built into to the unit, can choose what you want to monitor, you can get the tranny tune , I think is a must, and it is very easy to go in and set your desired defuel parameters, install is very easy . And mounted in the right place very easy to adjust on the fly. And idea of it installedmini max.jpg
    2017 Craz surf auto wake
    1140 # rears wet sounds

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    212

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stevemarich View Post
    ...but wait and do the the egr cleaning till the next go around at 120,000 , so far has been working out , we have a good sized fleet of them too.
    My mileage had decreased to around 15 over the last 2 years. It's now back up to 17.4 after about 500 miles of mixed use driving (hwy, traffic and city). I can only assume the soot buildup in the EGR system was causing the degraded performance. Truck seems more peppy too.

    I've found a few vendors on Ebay that sell complete kits (exhaust, EGR delete, Tune and monitor) for reasonable prices. But I'm still not sure if i want to go that route.
    2016 Craz

  10. #10
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    Apr 2017
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    Hayden Id
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    Yours is a 13 , were you lucky enough to not have the DEF fluid, most 13 added the def, have might need to have the turbo cleaned as well if there was a noticeable difference, there is a service bulletin out about cleaning the vgt, about to have mine done , first 50,000 average 12mpg , went to 14 mpg till the 120,000 when did full delete, after that has been steady 17-18 , the 2016 and 2017 that have the def they have been averaging in the 17-19 range.
    2017 Craz surf auto wake
    1140 # rears wet sounds

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