AutoWake questions

[korey]

Coming from a background of running wake boats "manually" for most of my life, and now that I've got about 30 hours on Autowake (45 hours on the boat) I'm feeling pretty good about using AW as a tool, but have some reservations - which may actually be ideas for improvement... Actually I think my reservations are about the rest of the controls, not Autowake. Of course this is coming from the mind of a Mechanical engineer in the industrial machinery industry who now spends most of his time developing the controls architecture for some pretty advanced machinery. I'm probably a little tainted by getting to do whatever I want in our one-off machinery...

The discussions here about MAXIMIZING displacement have sparked ideas about how to better use the tools the boat has to keep as much weight in the boat as possible. Surfing (mostly starboard surfing on my boat) I've gotten happy that has me running more surf plate than most as a way to induce roll without sacrificing as much displacement. Last weekend I was running 70% surf plate and letting autowake manage the ballast, which ended up at like 80% on the non-surf side and we had a monster behind the boat - I wish i had pictures... Applying a similar theory to the smart plate, my boat is always imbalanced to the rear - I don't usually take my lead and/or external ballast with me because of the way we use the boat - I'm running 35-40% smart plate to keep pitch under control but keep as much weight as possible in the boat. I'm targeting 3.5 degrees roll and 10 degrees pitch at the moment.

That leads me to my "wish list". Maybe these things are included with the Supra's rider profiles that we don't get in "cheap boat" land... Number 1 is saving the smart plate and amplitude settings with the different modes (surf Stbd, surf port, and wakeboard). I've gotten burned several times now by hopping in the water to surf after switching from wakeboard and the AMP setting staying at what I had it set for wakeboarding (typically 60% for me, whereas I want 100% for surf) and the boat dumps ballast on me... Same thing with the smart plate, but this happens even more often since we switch back and forth between AW off and AW surf Stbd much more often. I typically use the smart plate while cruising to do what I can to optimize the running surface for fuel efficiency versus ride/water conditions. It happens to me frequently after ripping that glassy "last ride in" on the way home on a Sunday evening on a wakeboard, then getting the boat back out on Friday night for an evening surf as soon as we get back to the lake. Then there I am fighting it because I forgot what I did 5 days ago...

My second thought is about including the smart and surf plate settings in AW. If my theory is valid (and I'm still learning a lot there), it's just as useful to manipulate the plates as it is to move ballast around. Any plans to add the control of the plates to the AW arcetecture? I'm sure you can;t say, but I'm certainly excited to start hearing about what's new for 2019 - if the used market stays as wacky as it has been, I COULD be shopping again!

[Idcatfan]

Okay Matt (and anyone else that wants to chime in):

So we’ve now had the boat for about 40 hrs. and I’ve had a chance to play around w/ Autowake and manually for surfing, and I have a few questions:

1. I surf goofy on starboard side and it says my factory defaults are 80 for port surf plate w/ a goal of 5 degrees roll. Does that sound correct? If so, why is there such a difference from regular where the surf plate is set at 65 and roll is -3 degrees? I’ve actually had more success w/ the surf plate closer to 65 on the goofy side.

2. Matt, your tutelage has allowed me to really get the hang of dialing in wakes for others. But when I get behind the boat, others are having trouble getting a good wave for me! I’m really struggling to drop the rope at 6’5” and 260 lbs. Even w/ autowake, the pocket is tiny and I only feel like I get any decent push RIGHT behind the boat! I’m riding a 5’ Doomswell Neo and we normally have about 500 lbs. of person weight beyond full or nearly full ballast. Is there just not enough displacement w/o me in the boat? I seem to do a bit better w/ speed above our typical 10.7 mph cruising speed (11.3). Would going faster help? Any other tips?

[Stazi]

Okay Matt (and anyone else that wants to chime in):

So we’ve now had the boat for about 40 hrs. and I’ve had a chance to play around w/ Autowake and manually for surfing, and I have a few questions:

1. I surf goofy on starboard side and it says my factory defaults are 80 for port surf plate w/ a goal of 5 degrees roll. Does that sound correct? If so, why is there such a difference from regular where the surf plate is set at 65 and roll is -3 degrees? I’ve actually had more success w/ the surf plate closer to 65 on the goofy side.

2. Matt, your tutelage has allowed me to really get the hang of dialing in wakes for others. But when I get behind the boat, others are having trouble getting a good wave for me! I’m really struggling to drop the rope at 6’5” and 260 lbs. Even w/ autowake, the pocket is tiny and I only feel like I get any decent push RIGHT behind the boat! I’m riding a 5’ Doomswell Neo and we normally have about 500 lbs. of person weight beyond full or nearly full ballast. Is there just not enough displacement w/o me in the boat? I seem to do a bit better w/ speed above our typical 10.7 mph cruising speed (11.3). Would going faster help? Any other tips?

I surf goofy and only deploy the port plate a max of 65%. 80% is too much. It sucks and makes the wave flat as shit.


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[goose]

Coming from a background of running wake boats "manually" for most of my life, and now that I've got about 30 hours on Autowake (45 hours on the boat) I'm feeling pretty good about using AW as a tool, but have some reservations - which may actually be ideas for improvement... Actually I think my reservations are about the rest of the controls, not Autowake. Of course this is coming from the mind of a Mechanical engineer in the industrial machinery industry who now spends most of his time developing the controls architecture for some pretty advanced machinery. I'm probably a little tainted by getting to do whatever I want in our one-off machinery...

The discussions here about MAXIMIZING displacement have sparked ideas about how to better use the tools the boat has to keep as much weight in the boat as possible. Surfing (mostly starboard surfing on my boat) I've gotten happy that has me running more surf plate than most as a way to induce roll without sacrificing as much displacement. Last weekend I was running 70% surf plate and letting autowake manage the ballast, which ended up at like 80% on the non-surf side and we had a monster behind the boat - I wish i had pictures... Applying a similar theory to the smart plate, my boat is always imbalanced to the rear - I don't usually take my lead and/or external ballast with me because of the way we use the boat - I'm running 35-40% smart plate to keep pitch under control but keep as much weight as possible in the boat. I'm targeting 3.5 degrees roll and 10 degrees pitch at the moment.

That leads me to my "wish list". Maybe these things are included with the Supra's rider profiles that we don't get in "cheap boat" land... Number 1 is saving the smart plate and amplitude settings with the different modes (surf Stbd, surf port, and wakeboard). I've gotten burned several times now by hopping in the water to surf after switching from wakeboard and the AMP setting staying at what I had it set for wakeboarding (typically 60% for me, whereas I want 100% for surf) and the boat dumps ballast on me... Same thing with the smart plate, but this happens even more often since we switch back and forth between AW off and AW surf Stbd much more often. I typically use the smart plate while cruising to do what I can to optimize the running surface for fuel efficiency versus ride/water conditions. It happens to me frequently after ripping that glassy "last ride in" on the way home on a Sunday evening on a wakeboard, then getting the boat back out on Friday night for an evening surf as soon as we get back to the lake. Then there I am fighting it because I forgot what I did 5 days ago...

My second thought is about including the smart and surf plate settings in AW. If my theory is valid (and I'm still learning a lot there), it's just as useful to manipulate the plates as it is to move ballast around. Any plans to add the control of the plates to the AW arcetecture? I'm sure you can;t say, but I'm certainly excited to start hearing about what's new for 2019 - if the used market stays as wacky as it has been, I COULD be shopping again!

Korey,

Thanks for the suggestions and questions. Glad to hear you are understanding AW better and we are always wanting to hear how we can make the systems better for our consumers. As an engineer, I am sure you can relate, but we have an understanding and knowledge of our system that no one else has. Because of that, what we might think is easy or self explanatory is NOT always the same as someone that is not as involved in the design process as we are. So that is why your feedback is so valuable.

You are correct that some of those differences are available in the Supra "Profiles". You can save plate locations, amplitudes, etc per profile. As a company with 2 brands sometimes we just have to make differences in some areas, but I can also tell you that with more complication also comes confusion. While some consumers LIKE the ability to make all those changes and selections, some consumers find it intimidating. In my personal use, IF you are likely to forget to change amplitude before you jump in the lake, you might be just as likely to forget to change the profiles. I have done the EXACT same thing as you and many times I have pulled my younger boys wakeboarding at a 50% or less amplitude, hit the surf switch WITHOUT changing amplitude and then once the boat got to speed, I instantly realized I forgot to change amplitude. Now, I always think to first pick discipline, second pick amplitude, third pick speed. If you do that, then that is all you really need. We did make a few small changes for 2019 and I can't really get into that yet, but it might help a little. But I do like your feedback. We will continue to try and figure out what is the right balance for Moomba. We do want to make it as easy as possible to operate, but we also want to keep it simple and non-intimidating for the people that are not as familiar with all the controls that can be adjusted.

As to your plates, it looks like I need to give another explanation on that. We are right in the middle of model change right now but I will try and give a better explanation on that soon.... Stay tuned...

[goose]

Okay Matt (and anyone else that wants to chime in):

So we’ve now had the boat for about 40 hrs. and I’ve had a chance to play around w/ Autowake and manually for surfing, and I have a few questions:

1. I surf goofy on starboard side and it says my factory defaults are 80 for port surf plate w/ a goal of 5 degrees roll. Does that sound correct? If so, why is there such a difference from regular where the surf plate is set at 65 and roll is -3 degrees? I’ve actually had more success w/ the surf plate closer to 65 on the goofy side.

2. Matt, your tutelage has allowed me to really get the hang of dialing in wakes for others. But when I get behind the boat, others are having trouble getting a good wave for me! I’m really struggling to drop the rope at 6’5” and 260 lbs. Even w/ autowake, the pocket is tiny and I only feel like I get any decent push RIGHT behind the boat! I’m riding a 5’ Doomswell Neo and we normally have about 500 lbs. of person weight beyond full or nearly full ballast. Is there just not enough displacement w/o me in the boat? I seem to do a bit better w/ speed above our typical 10.7 mph cruising speed (11.3). Would going faster help? Any other tips?

Ok, I will try to answer your questions, but I will do it with another "long winded" explanation. haha

Most people understand that by moving the plate down (higher #) that it will help "roll" the boat. However, what most people don't understand is that when you move the plate down you also create lift. And lift is basically the opposite of what displacement is trying to do.

So, what you really need to do is experiment with how much roll relative to how much lift you want to create when you use the plate. Here is what I recommend....

Start with your current best setup. In this case you are talking about having the port plate set at 80%. Let AutoWake do its thing and see how the wake looks and feels. Then go into manual mode and on the controls page slowly move the port plate all the way down to 100% by moving it 5% at a time. Then, move the plate all the way to 0%, again 5% at a time. As you do that you can physically watch the shape of the wave change. If you turn on AutoWake, you would also see both the roll AND pitch change as you did that (you can't adjust plates with AW on, so you would have to turn on each time). As you do that what you will find is there will be a range of where the wave looks best. It is likely the wave will be completely washed out from 0-35%. Then around 40% it will start to clean up and then about 85%, it will start to lose any lip to the wave. Now you will see based on your current ballast setup, what the range of plate you can be. Truth is you will get the most push on the low side of that range and the most length on the high side of that range.

As an fyi, your factory default should be 70% on port plate, NOT 80%. For your size and your desire for push, I would first recommend adding MORE displacement. Remember, NO replacement for Displacement. Then, I would recommend you move the plates as low as they can to give you max push. I have obviously not ridden your exact board, but I would think a larger board might also help if you want more push. I have ridden some Doomswell boards and they seem to have a lot of buoyancy, but without knowing your ability to pump the wave, I can't really say if that is the right board or not.

I have said this before, but I do NOT recommend you move your plates too much. We have found that 60% on stbd plate works MOST of the time for most people and 70% on the port plate works MOST of the time for most people. And as I said, moving the plates changes both roll and pitch. So, while you can fine tune with the plates, any movement of the plate will need to be taken into consideration with ballast locations and amounts. Less plate and you might need to put MORE weight on the surf side and less weight in the front. But the same is also true about displacement. As you add more displacement, then you can move that displacement and that does about the same thing as moving the plate. Do you see how this gets confusing??? Here is my general recommendation....first, ALWAYS add more weight. If you want to surf, then you really need to have at LEAST 70% of your full capacity in the boat. 80% or 90% capacity and the wave gets really nice. And truth is that applies to all boats and all brands. It is just basics of lift vs displacement. Second, if you just do NOT have displacement, then slowly raise the flow plates. This will allow you to get max displacement with less lift. If I only have a few people in my boat, then I might fine tune plates, but I typically also run enough ballast to never have to mess with that.

Ok, good luck. Hope that helps.

[Snowslydder]

In my personal use, IF you are likely to forget to change amplitude before you jump in the lake, you might be just as likely to forget to change the profiles. I have done the EXACT same thing as you and many times I have pulled my younger boys wakeboarding at a 50% or less amplitude, hit the surf switch WITHOUT changing amplitude and then once the boat got to speed, I instantly realized I forgot to change amplitude. Now, I always think to first pick discipline, second pick amplitude, third pick speed.

When you say change amplitude are you talking about adding weight to the boat or is there a setting I have missed entirely.

[Stazi]

When you say change amplitude are you talking about adding weight to the boat or is there a setting I have missed entirely.

The 2018 software lets you set the displacement with the menu buttons on the main page. More amplitude means the program will add more ballast. And vice versa.


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[chezdude]

To questions:

1) What is the latest version of the firmware available? I just flashed 20171121,and I think it’s the most recent but wanted to check.
2) in the new firmware, there is a dealer setting option that is looking for a code to tell it the boat model. It defaulted to 0000 which makes the system think it’s a Helix, but it’s a Craz. What is the proper code for the Craz and what does this really do to the system? Does it preset the AW settings or something?

Thanks,
Heath

[stevemarich]

At the moment that does nothing for the system, it is for future changes when their are actually different setting/ features for different models, you can probably have your dealer input the code and change the setting to a craz, hence dealer settings, requires a code to change settings, , but it will not affect anything other than it will say craz instead of helix.

[Stazi]

To questions:

1) What is the latest version of the firmware available? I just flashed 20171121,and I think it’s the most recent but wanted to check.
2) in the new firmware, there is a dealer setting option that is looking for a code to tell it the boat model. It defaulted to 0000 which makes the system think it’s a Helix, but it’s a Craz. What is the proper code for the Craz and what does this really do to the system? Does it preset the AW settings or something?

Thanks,
Heath

If you have the latest firmware then you will have the amplitude bar on the screen when Autowake is engaged. If you don’t see that, the. You don’t have the latest one. Email me if you don’t and I can send it t you. If you type in 9191 you can select your boat type.


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