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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Stazi,

    Another good question and I wish I had a better answer for why we didn't do that in the past. In 2018, the Mojo, Craz, and Max do come with 3,000lb ballast standard. Granted you could change the 900lb bag with a longer bag that might hold 1000 or 1100 in the Mojo, but we have to balance overall storage space and passenger capacity in our decision making. Not everyone buys the boat to surf with 5000lbs in the boat. As we increase std ballast, we have to decrease std capacity left. So, if we made 4,000lbs ballast standard, then we would be left at 1,500lbs of capacity. That also reduces the number on the plate. Then if you get pulled over and have 10 people in the boat, you could be considered over capacity. Does that make sense?? That is why I am trying to educate everyone on how the entire displacement comes into play. If you only have a couple passengers, but you want 4,000lbs of total ballast, then you need to do something else because just changing the pitch or roll angle is NOT going to add the push you are looking for.
    Matt Brown
    Product Development Manager

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Hayden Id
    Posts
    339

    Default

    Matt, can the ballast not be added to the capacity plate? Since you are in control of how much ballast you have on board like gear or people, for the numbers you stated above could it not just read, 17 people or 5500lbs max capacity ballast gear people, just a curious thought, might not be possible or worth it . Really appreciate your info, and how you guys are always finding ways to improve your products
    2017 Craz surf auto wake
    1140 # rears wet sounds

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Well, while that sounds very logical, unfortunately it doesn't really work in a logical fashion. We are NMMA certified. To be certified, we have to meet their standards including testing, validation and on the capacity side, they have a standard capacity calculation that we have to fill out. Truth is ballast has never really the hit the radar on this calculation. As a manufacturer, we have not "poked" the bear too much and we consider ballast as part of the boat weight. Because it is part of boat weight, then it is not the same as additional capacity. Because of safety factors and the way the capacity is calculated, 1000lbs of ballast that is included in the boat weight is actually not the same as 1000lbs of capacity as I made it seem. Without making that even more complicated or by getting into the details, lets just say we are maximizing total capacity the way we currently do it. On the Mojo specifically, if we actually took the ballast out of the weight of the boat and just included it as total capacity, it would actually reduce how much total weight we could get in the boat from 5500lbs to about 3500lbs. I know that doesn't make sense, but it is part of a standard capacity calculation that includes safety factors and such. Just so you know, we do also do a full "real float test" as we configure the boat with the actual 5500lbs of total capacity. It is actually quite funny because we do it here at the factory in our test pool and to get the total number of people we take all the engineers, sales people, marketing people, and sometimes people from the line. And considering we are a manufacturing facility, the majority of those people are male. So, if you could imagine a Mojo, sitting in a test pool, with 3000lbs of ballast and 17 dudes basically sitting on each other's laps, that is what we do every year in the new boat. Needless to say I try and get the driver seat location. I guess that is perks of my job. hahaha

    Not sure if that answers your question, but just trust us that the way we are doing it today is the best way we can do it and maximizing the potential based on the way we understand it.
    Matt Brown
    Product Development Manager

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    1,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goose View Post
    So, if you could imagine a Mojo, sitting in a test pool, with 3000lbs of ballast and 17 dudes basically sitting on each other's laps, that is what we do every year in the new boat.
    17 dudes in a boat on each other's lap . . . . yea . . . a day of fun in Maryville TN. Sorry Goose.
    2018 Supra SL400

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Random AutoWake Tip of the day - Garbage In Garbage Out

    Not sure if anyone has heard of that saying, but as with any computer based system, the output of the system is only as good as the inputs to the system. Our AutoWake system is actually a very complex system. While we try and make the system really easy to use, the truth is the overall system is very complex and includes many different variables. If you think about it, before AutoWake, we tried to get every driver to adjust port ballast, stbd ballast, front ballast, port flow plates, wakeplates, and stbd flow plates to the perfect spot. The driver also had to figure out how much additional weight was in the boat in terms of passengers and where those passengers were sitting. They also had to adjust speed and sometimes rope length to get each rider the perfect wave or wake for the way they liked it. While many of you are still living in that technology and doing a great job with it, you can see where this can be very complicated and intimidating for new users. That is also why if you look at our Surfing section, you will see hundreds of posts about "How do I adjust my ....." or "Flow plate settings for ...." or my favorite is always the way "Why does my wave suck so bad" posts. What happens is you can have 8 of the 9 parameters just right and it only takes 1 parameter to be off to completely screw up the wave. That one parameter might be an inaccurate paddlewheel speedo, an inaccurate ballast gauge, a flow plate that has not completely reset itself, and now you no longer have a surfable wave. In this case, an inaccurate input or sensor has totally ruined the output. You even had the parameter at the right number or setting, but the input was wrong to start with, giving you a bad experience.

    Same thing can happen with AutoWake. With AutoWake, we take all the frustration out of having to try and keep up with the 9 parameters and we really reduce that to 4. They are Pitch, Roll, Displacement, and Speed. In fact, we try and make it even easier by giving you factory defaults that should give you are a really good starting point on Pitch and Roll. Now all you have to do is pick a speed and then the more displacement you add, the bigger the wave or wake. Sounds simple right?? Well, the truth is there is still one VERY important factor that has to be perfect. And that is the Inclinometer. The Inclinometer is possibly one of the most important components in the AutoWake system and it is probably the part we have talked about the least. The Inclinometer is a sensor that is mounted under the dash and it tells us exactly what the actual pitch and roll of the boat is at any time. As I said before, Garbage IN will always give you Garbage OUT so if your inclinometer is NOT sending the right information or calibrated correctly, then it will obviously not be changing the ballast to get you to an accurate pitch and roll. The first thing you always need to consider is if the Inclinometer is working properly and most importantly is it calibrated properly. We calibrate the inclinometer at the factory, but obviously sometimes we make mistakes. The best way to check the calibration of the inclinometer is to actually run the boat at wakeboarding speeds. For 2017, it was best to do that with 2 passengers that are close to same size. When driving at wakeboard speeds, it is really easy to tell when the boat is actually running level. If the wakes are symmetrical side to side, then the boat is running close to level. If the wakes are not symmetrical, have the passenger move around until wakes are level. Once you validate that, turn on AutoWake and see what the actual "Roll" is displaying. If you are displaying within .5 degrees of 0, then you are probably close enough. However, if the inclinometer says you are running at more than +1 degree or less than -1 degree, then you should recalibrate the inclinometer. To recalibrate, you can go to the Menu button, Vessel Settings, AutoWake settings, and then hit Calibrate Inclinometer. For 2017, you have to calibrate the inclinometer when the boat is sitting still because it resets pitch and roll to 0. If you did that while running, you might get roll correct, but the pitch would then be off probably 8-9 degrees. For 2018, you can calibrate pitch and roll independent of each other. So for 2018, you can actually calibrate roll while driving level.

    The key to this tip is to make sure your AutoWake system is working properly, you need to make sure your Inclinometer is calibrated properly. If you are having problems with calibration, then you can also talk with your local dealer about having them do it for you. Once you get the Inclinometer calibrated correctly, there is no need to recalibrate in the future even if you upgrade software levels.
    Matt Brown
    Product Development Manager

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Hayden Id
    Posts
    339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goose View Post
    Well, while that sounds very logical, unfortunately it doesn't really work in a logical fashion. We are NMMA certified. To be certified, we have to meet their standards including testing, validation and on the capacity side, they have a standard capacity calculation that we have to fill out. Truth is ballast has never really the hit the radar on this calculation. As a manufacturer, we have not "poked" the bear too much and we consider ballast as part of the boat weight. Because it is part of boat weight, then it is not the same as additional capacity. Because of safety factors and the way the capacity is calculated, 1000lbs of ballast that is included in the boat weight is actually not the same as 1000lbs of capacity as I made it seem. Without making that even more complicated or by getting into the details, lets just say we are maximizing total capacity the way we currently do it. On the Mojo specifically, if we actually took the ballast out of the weight of the boat and just included it as total capacity, it would actually reduce how much total weight we could get in the boat from 5500lbs to about 3500lbs. I know that doesn't make sense, but it is part of a standard capacity calculation that includes safety factors and such. Just so you know, we do also do a full "real float test" as we configure the boat with the actual 5500lbs of total capacity. It is actually quite funny because we do it here at the factory in our test pool and to get the total number of people we take all the engineers, sales people, marketing people, and sometimes people from the line. And considering we are a manufacturing facility, the majority of those people are male. So, if you could imagine a Mojo, sitting in a test pool, with 3000lbs of ballast and 17 dudes basically sitting on each other's laps, that is what we do every year in the new boat. Needless to say I try and get the driver seat location. I guess that is perks of my job. hahaha

    Not sure if that answers your question, but just trust us that the way we are doing it today is the best way we can do it and maximizing the potential based on the way we understand it.
    It sure does Matt , figured it could not be that easy , thanks again for the tips and info.
    2017 Craz surf auto wake
    1140 # rears wet sounds

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Tims Ford Lake TN
    Posts
    290

    Default

    As an engineer, the advice to calibrate on the go seems too dangerous with variability. Wouldn't more a more prudent argument be setting on the trailer still on a good level lot with a long bar level checking across the seats port to starboard? Granted, some folks who store at the lake won't have this chance but at beginning and end of season but if they know that up front.....
    2016 Mojo Surf
    Raptor 400
    1100 rear bags
    Exile amps/tower - Kicker in-boat
    FAE

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    310

    Default

    I've been out on a 18 mojo pro, it had the amp setting but we didn't know what it was lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    310

    Default

    And we got the best wave with autowake off.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO
    Posts
    688

    Default

    Hey Matt, what are you using for the draft sensors? I've been homebrewing a system that sounds an awful lot like Autowake. I'm using pressure transducers measuring an air tube with the open end held underwater.
    2007 Mobius LSV
    1989 Sanger Skier DX - sold

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