AutoWake questions

[Mondo Ken]

Hi Matt,

I know you have been troubleshooting within your explanation of AutoWake, but when do you think we can expect “advanced user part 3”?

This has been amazing information as I was ready to give up on AutoWake until this tread appeared.

[goose]

Hi Matt,

I know you have been troubleshooting within your explanation of AutoWake, but when do you think we can expect “advanced user part 3”?

This has been amazing information as I was ready to give up on AutoWake until this tread appeared.

Thanks Ken. I am glad this thread has helped and I will try and see if I can part 3 done very soon. I started writing these tips just off the top of my head, but after a while I started to forget what all I had said so I copied and pasted them into one large document and now I am trying to write them in order so that one day we can have one long document with all the tips so that anyone could read from start to finish and it make more logical sense. I will try and have that part 3 done no later than Monday. (But probably today. hahaha)

Glad this info has helped. AutoWake really is an awesome technology and while it may still not be perfect, I really think the next few years are going to be amazing as we continue to develop even better uses for it. Stay tuned....

[goose]

Well, not going to get part 3 done today. I have about half of it written, but as always it is getting wordy and I am not going to finish today. Stay tuned, I will try to post it Monday. Hope everyone has a great weekend!

[moombahighrider]

Regardless, I will ask about adding more time on the ballast timers. Like I said, we are still working on the 2017 field fix so we can probably get the extra long timers added to that. Unfortunately we will probably still want to put a cap of some type on it. You have got to see our side of the liability part and if someone flipped the switch to fill, but the bag wasn't connected, we couldn't have an unlimited timer on there. That would basically sink the boat. Especially considering that the ballast fills MUCH faster than the bilge pump can keep up. ESPECIALLY if someone did upgrade to 6 pumps and still had higher timers. Currently if you had 6 pumps filling approximately 90lbs per minute and you didn't have bags, in 15 minutes you would have pumped in over 8000lbs of water in the boat. I think anyone could see where that could be an issue....

I will see what I can do...

Goose, how is the update looking? I'm heading to Powell on Thursday morning and would love to have the update loaded on Wednesday evening before I leave for this weekend.....

[goose]

Goose, how is the update looking? I'm heading to Powell on Thursday morning and would love to have the update loaded on Wednesday evening before I leave for this weekend.....

Moombahighrider, Check your inbox... Still working on final testing...

[chezdude]

Goose, any news on the firmware fix, the next installment of the guide or the odds of getting the 2018 firmware update for a 2017 boat?

I really appreciate the guide. This is the kind of stuff that should be in the owners manual and as a first time wakeboard boat owner it has helped me understand how the boat and all its components work together. It's not my first boat (traded in a 1984 SeaRay that had been in the family since 1987), but a V drive and the ballast/plate systems are all new to me.

[goose]

Goose, any news on the firmware fix, the next installment of the guide or the odds of getting the 2018 firmware update for a 2017 boat?

I really appreciate the guide. This is the kind of stuff that should be in the owners manual and as a first time wakeboard boat owner it has helped me understand how the boat and all its components work together. It's not my first boat (traded in a 1984 SeaRay that had been in the family since 1987), but a V drive and the ballast/plate systems are all new to me.

Well, I have all good news. I have written 2 more installments that cover wakeplates and also how and when to adjust pitch and roll. I will be posting those shortly. Also, all our testing has been very promising and we have a firmware fix for any 2017 or 2018 Moomba models. In fact, it is all the same software. And that software includes all the new predictive logic and amplitude display that we included for 2018. If you have a 2017 model, then you will not have a draft sensor, so if the system doesn't see a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display is more like a graphic version of ballast gauges. If you have a 2018 model and it does have a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display works as designed for 2018. We are still experimenting with the idea of making draft sensors available for 2017. It is not as easy as plug and play because we had to change pickup locations to make the draft sensor work, so just know that right now it is not available, but at some point, it might be. If you want the new software, contact your dealer. They can contact our customer service department and we can email them a link to the software. In fact, the dealer should be able to email you the software also and you could probably reflash the software yourself. Another idea is if you use your dealer to winterize or service your boat, then that would also be a good time to get the software installed. Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know that the glitch has been corrected and for those customers with 2017 models, you will also be getting a free upgrade to the improved logic. Stay tuned for more tips posted shortly....

[goose]

Random AutoWake Tip of the Day – Advanced Users (part 3 – WakePlate)

Ok, so now we understand what displacement is and how important it is. We also understand what pitch and roll is and how it shapes the wake. We understand how the inclinometer works and how important it is that it is calibrated properly. We understand how the flow plates work and when we might want to adjust them. But the last 2 adjustments we need to understand are the wakeplate and when exactly do we adjust pitch and roll. This tip is going to be specifically on the wakeplate.

One factor in wave and wake shapes is the “feel” of the wave or wake. We have discussed how sometimes a wave can be tall, or long, or have a lot of push, but one characteristic that actually has a lot to do with the push is the firmness or hardness of the wave. If a wave looks tall but feels “soft”, then typically it doesn’t have a great push. To create a more “firm” wave, think of it like compression. You basically want to displace a lot of water, but put a lot of pressure on it so that when it creates the wave, it has compressed energy. As weird as it may sound, the best way to do that is to actually fight that displacement with lift. That is where pitch adjustments and wakeplate adjustments can start to come in.

The wakeplate works under the same logic as the flow plates. When the wakeplate is down, water is forced down, pushing the boat up. When the wakeplate is up, water is NOT necessarily forced up, but with the plate in the up position, the rear of the boat can sit as deep as possible. The pitch of the boat can be adjusted several degrees by moving the plate from 100% down to 0% down (or all the way up). The factory default when cruise is on is 25% down. I guess in another tip I can talk about smartplate, but the short version of that is when the boat comes to a stop the plate goes to 100% down to help accelerate. Once the boat reaches a “cross-over” point, then the plate goes to 25%. We chose 25% because for the average user running factory ballast or less, a lower wakeplate number allows the back of the boat to sit as deep as possible allowing the boat to displace a good wave. In fact, for many people, you might even want to run the wakeplate at 0%. However, for some people running a LOT of extra ballast, they want to run extra weight in the rear and then “compress” that water with a slightly lower wakeplate of maybe 30-40%. But keep in mind that all of this works together. If you run too much weight in the back and then run the wakeplate down to 50-60%, then it will greatly reduce pitch. If you don’t change your AutoWake pitch values, then the system might actually drain water out of the front bag because the wakeplate would be fighting the effects of not adding weight in the front to offset the extra weight in the back. Draining water always reduces displacement and as we said in an earlier tip, displacement is the most critical component, so we want to minimize draining as much as possible. In this case, most users would not want to use the wakeplate to lower pitch, but instead use front ballast to affect pitch. That is why most users that add more weight in the rear, ALSO add weight in the front. That is basically doing the same thing of compressing the water. The extra weight in the rear pulls the back down. The extra weight in the front, pulls the rear up basically compressing all the displaced water.

One additional point that should be mentioned about the wakeplate is if you adjust the wakeplate too far down, it can drastically affect the wave. Once the plate moves past about 50% deflection, then it does more than just create lift. It actually starts to interfere with the roostertail coming from the prop. This deflection of the roostertail can drastically affect the wave shape and creation. To see how that works, fill your ballast to factory defaults, allow pitch and roll to adjust correctly, then once the wave has formed, move the wakeplate to 100% down. It is very likely that this will make the wave unsurfable.

The learning point here again is to understand what the wakeplate is doing, and experiment with it to see how you can maximize wave shape and length once you become an advanced user. As I said before, most users will typically want to maximize displacement by running the wakeplate between 0-25 and allow the boat to sit as deep as possible. However, if you are running really high amounts of displacement, then you might find that fine tuning the plate down a little could give you a more firm wave or possibly even a slightly longer wave.

[goose]

Random AutoWake Tip of the Day – Advanced Users (part 4 – When to adjust Pitch and Roll)

The last adjustment you need to understand is when to adjust pitch and roll. Unfortunately many people that don’t understand AutoWake immediately adjust pitch and roll. In the classic example of if 1 is good, 2 must be better, many people have adjusted pitch and or roll to extreme amounts before learning how the system works or even trying the factory defaults. Again, the thought process is if -3 roll is good, then -6 roll has to be better. Or if 9 pitch is good, then 11 pitch has to make the wave taller. Hopefully by now everyone understands that these are NOT good ideas. As we have discussed many times, only wave shape is dictated by pitch and roll. Wave size or push is always dictated by displacement. So, the answer to the original question is you should only adjust pitch and roll if you truly want to maximize ballast IF you are running more displacement than factory ballast. So the next question is how or when would you do that?

Let’s say you want to experiment with more displacement than factory ballast. You have already experimented with factory defaults, experimented with flow plates and understand how they work, experimented with the wakeplate and understand how that works. You have tried different boards, different speeds, and now you want to try and maximize what the boat can do. So, you get a couple extra friends, a couple extra fat sacks and head to the lake. My first recommendation would be to try and add any additional weight as centrally located as possible. Granted, you might surf on the port side all the time and the logical thought would be to add all additional weight on the port side, but we have learned better than that and we understand that overall displacement is more important than just displacing water on one side of the boat. So, if you have a couple extra fat sacks, fill them in the middle of the cockpit. Depending on the size and shape, you might want to fill one in the middle and the other closer to the walkthrough area at the dash. Remember, if you add all the additional weight in the back, then you will need something in the front, or you will be drastically changing the pitch. Next thing is fill all factory ballast to 100%. Once this is all done, then check the “Amplitude” display on the dash if you are in a 2018 model. If you have maxed the “Amplitude” display, then first make sure you have not exceeded the capacity of the boat. Obviously, that would be a big safety issue. Once you have made sure you have NOT exceeded the capacity of the boat, then try and run the boat with factory flow settings, wakeplate settings, and keep it in manual mode. Once you get the surf speed, check the shape of the wave. If the wave is not clean, then you could adjust passengers to the side you are surfing on. If the wave is very smooth with not a good defined “zone”, then try moving passengers to the non surf side. If the wave is rather short, then try moving passengers to the bow of the boat. If the wave seems extra long, then try moving passengers to the rear of the boat. By experimenting with different passenger locations in manual mode, then you can see what the maximum potential is of the wave with maximum displacement. Ok, you might be confused at this point because what does that have to do with AutoWake, but stay tuned…

The next thing you should do is hit the left button and engage AutoWake. As soon as it comes on, note the actual pitch and roll of the boat. With your extra ballast and optimized seating locations, you can now see what your actual pitch and roll are. If you had a good wave, then I would imagine that pitch and roll would likely be close to factory defaults. You might find that the pitch or roll is actually a degree or more off. As we have said many times, displacement trumps everything. With enough displacement, you can actually get good results even if the pitch is at 8 degrees or 11 degress. With enough displacement, you can actually get good results on port side even if the roll is at -2 degress or -4 degrees. So, for that day, you can now see where you are with pitch and roll. If you want to try and maintain that for that day, then you can now adjust pitch and roll to the new settings and as long as you have the extra ballast, then you should have a consistent wave throughout the day as you change riders with minimum ballast draining. Keep in mind that as passengers move, it will obviously have to drain some ballast to keep the pitch and roll, but this would be one example of when you might want to adjust pitch and roll from factory settings. One very important thing to remember is just because those pitch and roll values work that day, does NOT mean the same settings will be optimal when you reduce displacement. In fact, it will very likely NOT work as good and let me try and explain that.......

[goose]

Let’s say you did the “experimenting” with maximum ballast on a Saturday. On that day, you had an extra large crew of 10 passengers and you even had an extra fat sack in the cockpit area. When you moved all the weight around and filled all the factory ballast, you actually found on that day that the optimal pitch was at 10.5 degrees. In fact, it could never get less than that because with all the passengers in the rear of the boat, the front ballast was always at 100% just trying to maintain 10.5 degrees. With all that displacement, you still had a very surfable wave and in fact you really loved it because it had a great amount of push. In fact, several of the passengers learned to surf for the first time without the rope and now you are convinced that 10.5 pitch is the “Magic” number. The roll was actually close to -3 so you just left the roll alone. You had such a great experience that you wanted to do the same thing on Sunday. However, on Sunday, you only have 3 passengers and the person with the extra fat sack was not one of them. So on this day, you only have factory ballast and 3 passengers. The truth is you just will NOT get the same results on Sunday as you had on Saturday. When you get to the lake, the “Amplitude” display will explain that. On Saturday, the “Amplitude” display was maxed out. On Sunday, the “Amplitude” display will be at about 50%. This is when you really need to change pitch and roll BACK to factory default. If you don’t, this is what will happen. When you turn AutoWake on, the roll will get achieved first, then it will try and fill ballast to reach the “AMP” setting of 100% of ballast in the rear. It will get there. Let’s say you have all passengers sitting perfect and both rear ballast get to 100%. So, the roll is achieved and rear ballast is achieved. However, the front ballast will never fill all the way up, because if you left the pitch at 10.5 degrees, then it will actually need to add more weight in the rear to get to the extra high pitch and the only thing the system can do is NOT fill the front or drain the front to try and get to 10.5 degrees. So, in this case, it is likely that you will end up with 30%, or maybe less ballast in the front. As I have described before, this is a huge mistake, because now you are actually losing about 700lbs displacement to try and get to a “MAGIC” number of 10.5 pitch. If you change the pitch back to default of 9, then the front would continue to fill and in fact, you might get to 100% ballast in the front. In this case, the less pitch actually makes the wave bigger because it increases displacement. Remember the no replacement for displacement??

Confused now?? This is a prime example of why it is very important to understand how all the components work in the overall system. Let’s say you are a new user and you went out on Saturday as we described. Let’s say you just left all factory defaults and just operated the boat normally. What would likely have happened is the AutoWake system would have filled all the ballast to 100% in the rear. With all the passengers and ballast in the rear, then it would likely have filled all the ballast in the front to 100% to try and get to 9 degree pitch. It is very likely once it got to 100%, it would have given you a popup that said front ballast maxed, unable to achieve 9 degrees pitch, move passengers to front. This would have been a little annoying, but if you wouldn’t have done anything, the popup would go away and you would have ended up running most of the day at 10.5 degrees pitch with popups coming on every time you took off. While the popups would have been annoying, it would at least be telling you what was going on, and the best part is the performance would still have been there and you would have had a great day. Now on Sunday, when you went out with less displacement, you would still get maximum factory ballast, because you never adjusted from factory defaults. On Sunday, you would NOT get popups, because with only 3 passengers, the system can easily achieve the factory settings for pitch and roll. On Sunday, you would not have the same push as Saturday, but you would have more push than if you had left the 10.5 pitch settings. And the best part is by not adjusting settings, you can actually see how the only variable between Saturday and Sunday was the “Amplitude” display and now you see exactly what we mean by how important displacement is.

One example where you might actually want to adjust roll is if you want to play with “wave transfers”. The Flow plates can generally make about a 4 degree change from port surfing to stbd surfing without moving passengers. So, if you want to do transfers without moving passengers, then you might adjust port surfing to a -1 degree roll and stbd surfing to a 3 degree roll. If you do that, then you will probably want to make sure that you have plenty of displacement so that the wave is still good and surfable with these new reduced roll amounts. Like I said before, with enough displacement, it will overcome the slightly lower roll amounts so you should be good. However, if you only have a couple passengers in the boat and factory ballast, then this might not be possible. If that is the case, then during transfers, you might have to have one passenger also move in the boat to help with the roll change between port surfing and stbd surfing.

So, after reading this, you might think I am suggesting that you don’t adjust pitch and roll very often. If so, then you are getting my point. Unless you really know what you are doing, and you have a good knowledge about how you are making adjustments and how they relate to the displacement in the boat that day, then you can actually get less performance if you adjust pitch and roll too much. If you really must adjust pitch and roll, just always remember that high pitch or roll numbers can cause the system to drain front ballast or rear ballast to try and achieve those numbers. While that might be what you want to do to personalize the wave shape or length, just always keep in mind that push and size will always be more affected by displacement than pitch or roll.