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  1. #381
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    477

    Default

    How do the bag sensors work if you piggyback another bag like an IBS?


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    '19 MAX
    '13 Mobius LSV - Sold
    '05 Mobius LSV - Sold

  2. #382
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Commerce Lake, MI
    Posts
    2,145

    Default

    They are on the overflow, so it might be ok.


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    2017 Moomba Craz

  3. #383
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by csm View Post
    How do the bag sensors work if you piggyback another bag like an IBS?


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    In Makai an IBS would be awkward as heck IMHO. Plus I haven’t encountered a too little bow weight scenario yet. It’s got plenty.


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  4. #384
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    1,372

    Default

    What the heck is predictive state and what does it actually do? How is it any different than activating a rider profile and waiting on the boat to do its thing? Is in only in use in auto wake? I have read through this thread more than once and still can't figure out what it does and how it helps me on the water.
    2018 Supra SA400 aka The Ron Burgandy
    2011 Sea-Doo Wake 155
    2015 Mojo Surf, sold...2013 Axis A22 Recon Edition, sold...2010 Axis A22, sold...2007 Maxum 1800sr3, sold

  5. #385
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    4,920

    Default AutoWake questions

    Quote Originally Posted by KnoxMojo View Post
    What the heck is predictive state and what does it actually do? How is it any different than activating a rider profile and waiting on the boat to do its thing? Is in only in use in auto wake? I have read through this thread more than once and still can't figure out what it does and how it helps me on the water.
    Predicative state basically takes how you are sitting with people and ballast statically on the water and PREDICTS how the boat will sit dynamically and will adjust ballast before you start your pull so that you hit your pitch and roll targets.

    It works and it’s very cool.

    Watch the wake 9 interview with goose.


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    Last edited by larry_arizona; 10-06-2018 at 07:36 AM.
    2021 Supra SA 400
    2018 Supra SA 400 (SOLD)
    Michigan

  6. #386
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    4,920

    Default

    Predictive state and autowake 2.0 with 6 ballast pumps is basically instant perfect wave and wake every time no matter how people are situated in the boat.

    If autowake doesn’t like how the boat is sitting dynamically and can’t adjust ballast to get where it wants to be, it will tell you where to move weight in the boat.

    It messes with the guys who are manual set up pros, but really mimics what pros already do.

    It makes a newb driver “good” out of the box while teaching what makes a good wave/wake.

    It only makes a pro better.




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    2021 Supra SA 400
    2018 Supra SA 400 (SOLD)
    Michigan

  7. #387
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Hey guys. Sorry I was out last week on fall break with the kids.

    I think all the questions have been answered but I will add a little just to be sure (because I like typing sooo much...haha)

    As the other guys have said, predictive state works by "predicting" where the boat will be dynamically and moves the ballast when the boat is sitting still to try and get ballast correct before you ever take off. For example, if the Autowake is set to surf on the starboard side at 5 degrees to starboard, then based on our testing, we know the boat needs to be sitting close to 2.5 degrees to starboard so that once the boat gets going and flow plates are working, the boat should be close to 5 degrees. As I say all the time, the biggest confusion with surf boats these days are how passengers and gear affect displacement and roll. If all the passengers are sitting exactly level in the boat AND you have a cooler full of beer on the port side, then the boat is probably sitting at a roll TO the port side. It is almost impossible for a person to look at the boat and see a difference sitting still of 1 or 2 degrees. 1 or 2 degrees may not seem like much roll, but in the Surfing world, a half a degree of roll can be the difference in having a surf wave and NOT having a surf wave. So, before predictive state, with people sitting as described, the boat would take off, AutoWake would see that we are actually running at a 0 or 1 degree roll, and then it would have to drain ballast on the port side (assuming all ballast is full) to offset the passengers NOT sitting in the optimized spot. And this takes a while. While the ballast is moving, the rider is frustrated because the wave does not look good and I am sure everyone has been in this position. Then after a few minutes, the ballast has drained maybe 15-20% on the non surf side, the boat is sitting at proper roll and everything is relatively good.

    The difference with predictive state is as soon as you turn the key on, AutoWake sees that you are sitting at the wrong roll. So, it starts draining on non surf side immediately. If you really want to be an expert driver, then the driver sees this and immediately knows that we should actually move passengers toward side with 100% ballast, moves a passenger to starboard side, predictive state shows you are good on roll, you take off, the wave is perfect and with passengers sitting in optimized locations, you also have max displacement. Lets say the driver doesn't look at the dash or no one wants to move. Again, no problem, while the rider is getting ready with jacket, rope, drinking his last sip of beverage, etc, the ballast is moving and now with 6 pumps, within a minute or so, predictive state has roll correct and as soon as you take off, the wave is correct.

    Again, all that was in 2018, but if people were confused about how it works, hopefully that gives more clarity.

    As to 2019, the biggest change was the ballast sensors. Again, I think that has been covered, but on most boats, the rear sensors are tubes that measures the actual level of the water. Currently, the software is setup so that when the bags are completely full in the rear, because the sensor sees it is full, then it turns off pumps and resets gauge to 100%. On some boats, the rear sensors and front sensors are flow sensors that measure when water starts to flow out the overflow. Those work similar in that when the ballast is full and flowing out, then it turns pump off and resets gauges so that you can not OVERFILL the ballast and cause other issues like busted bags or fittings. We do have several things in the works for the future, but we don't want to show our hand on all that yet. Believe it or not, sometimes our competitors go on this forum just to see if they can learn anything so not planning on giving them too much info. Just know that we are trying to keep pushing the envelope on technology that actually helps. While the other guys are working on louder stereos, fancy strobing RGB lights, and seats that are electric, cooled and heated, we are trying to keep focusing on actual performance related stuff. We assume that is why people are buying tow boats in the first place....

    Ok, hope that helps. Got to get back to work... Hope we have a short winter. hahaha
    Matt Brown
    Product Development Manager

  8. #388
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Vancouver WA
    Posts
    5,019

    Default

    Okay Goose, I've only had a couple opportunities to ride behind boats with Autowake. The most recent one was very disappointing. It was a stock 2018 Max with the G6 ballast. We had 3 adults, one kid and I was surfing. They set the autowake to 100% amplitude, 100% ballast and I surf regular. It was bad. We tried between 10 and 11mph and while the wave looked fine, I got dropped right off it almost instantly. I am a good surfer and have a really fast board. The wave had no little power that it was worse than my XLV with half the ballast of the Max. to even get a wave I could stay on (with effort) we had to drop the speed to around 9mph and I was almost eating the swim platform. I couldn't really kick my board out sideways because there'd be no way I could recover.

    Needless to say I was incredibly disappointed. My friend said the tabs were deployed too far, but wouldn't the draft sensors be able to measure this and not have the tabs deploy so far it'd lift the stern and take all the push away? My XLV with 3000 pounds of ballast destroys the Max wave I was on.
    2008 Moomba Mobius XLV. Monster Cargo Bimini, WS Rev 410's, Polk Cabins, 3 Infinity Subs, PPI amps, WS420, Exile BT, upgraded ballast pumps, up to 3,500+ pounds of ballast, Blue LED's...
    1992 Supra Sunsport. **SOLD** 2k pounds ballast, Surf System, Blue LED's everywhere, decent audio system.
    Tow Rig: 2013 F150 Ecoboost FX4 (wife's rig) Other money pits include:1998 BMW M3 Cabriolet, 2009 Audic A6 Avant 3.0T, 2005 Kawasaki ZX-6R 636.
    www.TraysonsToybox.com

  9. #389
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Commerce Lake, MI
    Posts
    2,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trayson View Post
    Okay Goose, I've only had a couple opportunities to ride behind boats with Autowake. The most recent one was very disappointing. It was a stock 2018 Max with the G6 ballast. We had 3 adults, one kid and I was surfing. They set the autowake to 100% amplitude, 100% ballast and I surf regular. It was bad. We tried between 10 and 11mph and while the wave looked fine, I got dropped right off it almost instantly. I am a good surfer and have a really fast board. The wave had no little power that it was worse than my XLV with half the ballast of the Max. to even get a wave I could stay on (with effort) we had to drop the speed to around 9mph and I was almost eating the swim platform. I couldn't really kick my board out sideways because there'd be no way I could recover.

    Needless to say I was incredibly disappointed. My friend said the tabs were deployed too far, but wouldn't the draft sensors be able to measure this and not have the tabs deploy so far it'd lift the stern and take all the push away? My XLV with 3000 pounds of ballast destroys the Max wave I was on.
    Draft sensor only works while stationery. So if they thought 100% tab was the best and used that too, then it would explain the crappy wave. I have yet seen a need to ever use more than 65-70% surf tab for goofy side and 50-60% for natural foot. Any more and the wave may look nice and smooth but is as flat as a pancake and lacks push.


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    2017 Moomba Craz

  10. #390
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    UT 6000'
    Posts
    1,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trayson View Post
    Okay Goose, I've only had a couple opportunities to ride behind boats with Autowake. The most recent one was very disappointing. It was a stock 2018 Max with the G6 ballast. We had 3 adults, one kid and I was surfing. They set the autowake to 100% amplitude, 100% ballast and I surf regular. It was bad. We tried between 10 and 11mph and while the wave looked fine, I got dropped right off it almost instantly. I am a good surfer and have a really fast board. The wave had no little power that it was worse than my XLV with half the ballast of the Max. to even get a wave I could stay on (with effort) we had to drop the speed to around 9mph and I was almost eating the swim platform. I couldn't really kick my board out sideways because there'd be no way I could recover.

    Needless to say I was incredibly disappointed. My friend said the tabs were deployed too far, but wouldn't the draft sensors be able to measure this and not have the tabs deploy so far it'd lift the stern and take all the push away? My XLV with 3000 pounds of ballast destroys the Max wave I was on.
    This is where AW gets it's bad name an uneducated people trying to use it. Come to UT and I'll show ya a MAX that you will be very happy with. A poorly setup Max sucks to see and hear, I've beat some big names with customer side by side with the Max wave.
    DFTR Josh
    Supra/Moomba
    www.marine-products.com (Discount Code: DFTR-1)

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