Trayson's 2008 XLV ballast system upgrade

[trayson]

I want to make a shopping list for my ballast system upgrade. I want the list to be comprehensive since my plan is to buy anything I’d be getting from wakemakers on the weekend of Black Friday. I will source the pumps from EBay if cheaper. I will source standard plumbing fittings from my local plumbing store when possible if cheaper than WM.


Current setup

• 1 Rule 2000 (1200GPH) fill pump
• Sprinkler valves as a manifold for fill
• 3 drain pumps (~700GPH)
• No vent lines or check valves
• 1100 rear locker bags
• 650 center bag in basement locker

Thoughts and Assumptions

• My system will be the standard aerator system, repurposing existing components where logical.
• I think that I would rather have a dedicated vent thru-hull rather than T-ing into my drain line. It seems wasteful to buy a t-fitting and a check valve for the vent line just to avoid cutting a hole in the side of my boat. I’m not bashful about cutting holes and having more thru-hulls. No worries.
• Since I don’t currently have vent lines on any of my bags, I would need to buy the bag fittings and hose for these vent lines, if I am going to have to buy flowrite fittings and some hose ANYWAY, I might has well buy 1” fittings and hose and use that for the FILL and repurpose the ¾” existing fill fittings/hose for venting.
• I am fine with ¾” hose/fittings/thru-hulls for draining because draining seems to be less of a priority than filling and much of it can be done while underway or even after the boat’s pulled out of the water (assuming a level boat). Plus, when draining, it’s cool to see water shooting a good distance out of a ¾” thru-hull!
• I am not sure about the whole vented loop vs. check valve on the fill lines. Obviously the vented loops are a LOT more expensive than check valves. It sounds like if I don’t use vented loops that the bags will fill on their own while underway? I am not a fan of that.
• I currently have issues with the rear bag draining through the drain hole even with all the pumps off. I am wondering if I need to have the drain thru-hull located higher up (or possibly more forward?) I am thinking the bag is siphoning because the top of the bag when filled is higher than the drain thru-hull? I don’t know any “solution” for this other than placement of thru-hull.

Setup
1. Center bag (1180 gravity bag)

a. FILL: existing factory thru-hull, existing factory ball valve, new 1” hose, new T1200 Pump, new 1” flowrite bag connector

b. EMPTY: existing ¾” flowrite bag connector, existing ¾” drain hose, T1200 pump, existing ¾” thru-hull

c. VENT: repurpose ¾” flowrite bag connector, repurpose ¾” hose, add ¾” thru-hull

2. Rear Bags (x2)

a. FILL: New 1” thru hull, new 1” elbow and ball valve, new 1” hose, new T1200 pump, new 1” bag connectors

b. EMPTY: existing ¾” flowrite bag connector, existing ¾” drain hose, T1200 pump, existing ¾” thru-hull

c. VENT: repurpose ¾” flowrite bag connector, repurpose ¾” hose, add ¾” thru-hull

Shopping list:

• 1180 Gravity Games bag
• 2 Attwood T1200 Pumps: I need a total of 6 of the T1200’s. I currently have 3. I think I might steal a 4th one from my throw-over and repurpose the factory Rule 2000 as my throw-over. They are basically the same pump, but the rule takes more voltage and is bigger. It seems to make sense to have all uniform pumps anyway.
• 2 bronze thru hulls (1 inch?)
• 2 bronze elbows
• 2 ball valves
• 2 sets of 1” flowrite bag/hose fittings
• 2 black plastic thru-hulls
• A whole bunch of hose clamps
• 1” hose (length?)
• Vented Loops?
• Check Valves?

Questions

• What size thru-hull is optimal for the T1200 fill pump using 1" hose/hardware/fittings?
• Where do I need to put check valves or vented loops?
• Am I correct in my assumption that I need to locate my rear bag drains more forward?

[jstenger]

A vented loop does nothing to keep a bag from self filling. It is used as a vacuum break so that the water does not syphon out of the bag. The duck bill valve lets air in and keeps water from coming out. A check valve will do the same thing. I removed the sprinkler valve and cut the scooper off of my intake on my 2010 OBV to keep the bags from self filling.

[bergermaister]

http://www.wakemakers.com/resources/...-vented-loops/

I have vented loops on all fill lines. No passive filling or draining but they are bulky, spenive, and a PITA to mount in the rear lockers up high under the gunnel.

Criss Cross your vents/drains to the opposite side to negate the dribble effect.

Less holes is more. I'd combine vent/drain lines to a single thru hull all day long before drilling another hole.

[jmvotto]

check the flo rite site for parts .. wm has come in on price on some. have to use the fly high bag connectors the ones from flo rite leak and are a different shape on top if you glue them they most likely wont leak.

Cut scupper and criss cross drain lines, wye the drain lines with the vent will help siphon the bags more flat..

??? if your going to drill holes in the bottom why not just by reversible pumps. solve a lot of problems... and work.

[trayson]

Less holes is more. I'd combine vent/drain lines to a single thru hull all day long before drilling another hole.

Well, an argument can be made for "more is less".

Thru Hull = $3

versus

Check valve $14 + $6 Wye or $1 Tee.


So, it's $15 to $20 for combining lines vs. $3 for adding another thru-hull. More (holes) is Less (money). LOL!!!

[trayson]

check the flo rite site for parts .. wm has come in on price on some. have to use the fly high bag connectors the ones from flo rite leak and are a different shape on top if you glue them they most likely wont leak.

Cut scupper and criss cross drain lines, wye the drain lines with the vent will help siphon the bags more flat..

??? if your going to drill holes in the bottom why not just by reversible pumps. solve a lot of problems... and work.

It's the classic aerator vs. reversible argument.

Aerator pumps cost less and in my setup should stay lower even with the extra "stuff" needed for my setup.
Aerator pumps draw a lot less current
Aerator pumps should end up faster
Aerator pumps don't require replacement of $20 impellers every couple of years.
Oh, and I forgot the trump-all argument: Because Berg has Aerators and EVERYONE wants to be like BERG!!!!

I just decided to go that way--I already have 4 of the 1200 Attwood Tsunami pumps sourced, so I'm marching forward.

[trayson]

I talked to Wakemakers a little during my lunch hour. They said if I do a check valve on the fill line and loop it up high (similar to the placement of the vented loop) that it should accomplish the same thing (keep it from siphoning). I guess I'll give that a shot since the vented loops are spendy and a PITA like Berg mentioned.

Other than that, I think I have a basic plan. I'm still planning on going with separate vent/drain lines. I'm not really worried about a few more holes.

Since I'm only using 2 of the 3 ports on the current bags, I'll be needing to buy one more set of fittings. So I'll get 1" and do that for the fill line and do 1" hose as well. I'll end up with 3/4" fittings and line on the drain and vent. I think that will be fine.

[trayson]

Also, on the thru-hull, it says on the wakemakers site that a 1" thru-hull requires a 1 5/16" hole saw. My set of hole saws has 1 1/4 and then skips to 1 1/2. Do I really need to get a 1 5/16th? Can someone with experience chime in?

[bergermaister]

You should be able to pick one up for a few bucks at HD or Lowes. For anything under the water line you want minimal gap around the fitting - don't just rely on the 3M sealant to fill in any extra space from too big of a hole. Well you could but I wouldn't.

For above the water line a little oversized on the hole won't hurt. It's a low pressure system and once you goop it up with sealant, as long as the thru hull has a decent sized outer lip, you'll never know there was a tiny gap after you tighten it down.


Too small of a hole and you're forcing the fitting through or going after it with a file to open it up - too easy to chip the gel.

I may have one or a 1-3/8" you can borrow if you don't find what you're looking for.


Of course I'm a GOOD influence. As far as you know...

[parrothd]

I'd go with the reversibles, less headache and easier install, I've seen enough people having to mess around with those aratetor pumps it's not worth the time or the few dollars saved.