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  1. #1
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    Jul 2009
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    Default What to upgrade first? Stock amp, or speakers?

    I'm going to eventually upgrade both my stock kicker cabin speakers and the zx200.4 that powers them. I'm wondering which will yield me better results since it will likely be a couple months between when I can get each. I'm leaning towards amp because they seems to be so underpowered according to their specs.
    -2012 Supra Launch 21V
    -2008 Mobius LSV

  2. #2
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    Jul 2008
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    Des Moines, IA
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    Default

    Definitely the amp. There are some great choices in class D amps right now from Kicker, Alpine , JL.. all great quality and reasonbly priced. The stock speakers are actually quite nice and will sound much better with some extra juice.

  3. #3
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    Mar 2010
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    Arkansas
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    Default

    Is a class D going to work for cabins?

    I agree. Upgrade the amp first and make sure you buy one big enough to push whatever you upgrade to. I'd find something that is pushing 70 to 100 watts rms.

    I know you have the 770s up top. FWIW, I love my Bullet coaxials in boat. I am pushing them with a JL G4500 because I couldn't justify springing for the JL G6600. Not sure if those are current models, though.
    2016 Moomba Mojo
    2006 Supra 24SSV - Traded

  4. #4
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    Jul 2008
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    Des Moines, IA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KG's Supra24 View Post
    Is a class D going to work for cabins?
    Yep, the new full range class D's are awesome, and perfect for the marine environment. Better efficiency, longer play times, less heat, smaller footprint, etc.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Stillwater, Oklahoma
    Posts
    400

    Default

    Ask around for the guys who are starting to use the new IX500.4 on their KM6500.2 tower speakers. Absolutely ther is some Killer Class D amps out there now, not only from Kicker but from a few others as well.

    The new Kicker IX amps feature Boost Converter technology for their power supplies. Efficiency is better than 90% in the power supplpy for these amps.


    As for the OP question, why is it that everyone thinks "stock" needs to be replaced? You wouldn't go buy a boat and then change out the stock motor would ya? the guys at Skiers Choice do a good job of building a top-notch boat, including the audio system.

    That being said, the obvious place to "play" with your stereo is more power. A bigger amp will allow you to drive your speakers fully to their rated power and beyond, without the amp clipping. You have more headroom to drive the speakers cleanly and loudly. Most of the bad sounding stereos you hear in party cove sound bad becuae the amps are clipping; they are trying to make more power than they can and the crunchy sound the speakers are making are actually the amps fault. Put in a bigger amp, and those same speakers at the same apparent volume will get a clean un-clipped signal from the amps and the crappy crunchy sound goes away.

    So, if I were to answer your question, I wold tell you that for the current stock system, with Kicker speakes and Kicker amp, change out the amp first. Consider a bigger amp, maybe with a built in sub channel, like the Kicker ZXM700.5 or look at one of the digital offerings in the Kicker IX line for greater efficiency Brain Rinse is right, the stock speakers can handle much more power than they are currently being run on.

    Phil
    Kicker

  6. #6
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    Jul 2009
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    Fort Worth, TX
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    Default

    The bullet coaxials were what I had planned. This is the amp I was thinking of going with. I've had really good luck with hi fonics in the past but only with subwoofers. Any one know the kind of sound quality you can get from one? My main goal for the cabins is to get the best sound quality possible at a reasonable price.

    http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...s-ZXi80.4.html
    -2012 Supra Launch 21V
    -2008 Mobius LSV

  7. #7
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    Jul 2009
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    Fort Worth, TX
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    Default

    If I like the way the kickers sound when I replace the amp I will definitley keep them. This is what I am hoping will happen. They have just been clipping at high volume which I assume is because they are underpowered. This is why I am trying to upgrade. What do you think the sweet spot for the km613 is as far as rms watts?
    -2012 Supra Launch 21V
    -2008 Mobius LSV

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
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    5,456

    Default

    I don't have the most high end of systems on here but I was told to overpower by 10-20%. So 65watts RMS on the km613 would suggest going with ~80watts rms. I am overpowering everything now by 15-20% in my setup and only find distortion on the really heavy booty bass stuff when it is blasting at near full volume. Can also start to hear the difference in sound quality of songs with lower bitrate when you're cranked up.
    So when is this "old enough to know better" supposed to kick in?

    2001 MobiusV - Slightly Modified...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    887

    Default

    An upgrade in in-boat speakers will have the greatest impact on sound quality because they are near field and reproduce 80 percent of the music content. Even the percieved tonal contstruction of the upper bass can be profoundly improved by the right in-boat coaxials. Certainly there is a difference between sound quality while running at high speed versus low speed or at rest. But the in-boat speakers are your best shot at improving the sound quality.
    However, with the present factory system its actually the amplifier that is the weak link. When you hear distortion it is the amplifier clipping provided all is tuned well. You may or may not be satisfied with the sound quality of the factory speakers but there is no doubt that they have the potential to play louder and cleaner with new power. Certainly the construction of the factory Kicker coaxial is top notch.
    When the time comes you will see an improvement in the smoothness and particularly in the treble by going from any coaxial with a 'W' dome to a true dome whether it be a HollowPoint, JL Audio, Kicker, etc.
    As for the amplifier upgrade, I would not only upgrade power but upgrade the technology also by going with fullrange Class D. Its 60 percent more efficient, generates a quarter of the heat and has numerous other benefits in keeping voltage higher and for longer not to mention the numerous advantages for your charging system.

    David
    Earmark Marine

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Stillwater, Oklahoma
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    400

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bzubke1 View Post
    If I like the way the kickers sound when I replace the amp I will definitley keep them. This is what I am hoping will happen. They have just been clipping at high volume which I assume is because they are underpowered. This is why I am trying to upgrade. What do you think the sweet spot for the km613 is as far as rms watts?



    Quote Originally Posted by bergermaister View Post
    I don't have the most high end of systems on here but I was told to overpower by 10-20%. So 65watts RMS on the km613 would suggest going with ~80watts rms. I am overpowering everything now by 15-20% in my setup and only find distortion on the really heavy booty bass stuff when it is blasting at near full volume. Can also start to hear the difference in sound quality of songs with lower bitrate when you're cranked up.
    I agree with bergermaister to a large extent. Understand that unlike amplifier power, which is easy to physically measure with test equipment, there is no real way to meaure a speakers power handling. Power handling is largely a "safe guess" put out there by the manufacturer, and you can usually exceed it.

    I honestly would be comfortable with 100 watts per speaker for bzubke1's boat, with the caveat that he either know or learn the aaudible signs of a speaker being driven beyond its mechanical limit. You can do things, (Bass Boost and EQ aare two key areas) to create mechanical stress where the higher power doesn't work, but with a proper system with crossovers set appropriately, minimal EQ etc. you can really pour the coals to the KM613 / KM6130 without too much concern. Listen for the sounds of the system misbehaving and adjust or turn down so that the bad sounds quit and you will be able to keep the system running without blowing speakers.

    Phil
    Kicker
    Last edited by philwsailz; 07-15-2011 at 01:00 PM.

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