^agreed unless they can go to a flat tax.
I can't imagine that EVER happening as that would reduce the irs to 1/10 of what it is today and we all know shrinking gov't is not in the english language..
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^agreed unless they can go to a flat tax.
I can't imagine that EVER happening as that would reduce the irs to 1/10 of what it is today and we all know shrinking gov't is not in the english language..
No but they should be forced to pay. This does not apply only to maternity cases...really why should someone not have to pay for something with no consequence and here hardworking people that pay our bills have to pick up the Tab while they don't. Obviously the business has to pass expense on to their customers but these deadbeats shouldn't get a free pass to ride on the coat tails of everyone else. Makes me sick
Because, we, as a society, have decided that healthcare is a right and should be available to everyone ... same with roads, police, education, etc.
There is always going to be a "tax" associated with a service. Now we have to figure out the best way to collect that "tax". Our last system made it way too easy for insurance companies to exploit the system and by doing so they have elevated hospital cost to an unreasonable amount.
I'll admit, I get frustrated with the way people look at. Perspective with the current system ....
Most hate the fact that XXXXX has 5 kids and can't pay for a dang one. She is bleeding the medicare system!! Lets make her pay 25,000 (5,000 per kid). We now have $25,000 to contribute to the "pool".
Medicare tax is capped around $115,000. You pay 1.45% into this "pool" until you reach 115k, nothing after that. Let's look at one guy that makes 2M. If he had to pay "his share" on the income past 115k, he would have to pay an additional 27k.
The philosophy has been that the 2M guy won't use Medicare so we decided to cap it at 115k. Yea, I can rationalize that BUT how is that the answer to everyone splitting the burden of providing a service to society? That's just splitting the burden between everyone making 115k or less.
If I make 115k I'm going to pay 1650 into the "pool" to help this lady. If Joe Millionaire makes 2M, he pays 1650 into the "pool". How does that not frustrate someone in the middle class that also doesn't use the Medicare services? Why should you have to pick up that ladies tab more so than Joe Millionaire?
Is it more efficient to pay people to collect the 25,000 (meaning you net less than 25k) from the lady poppin out babies or does it make more sense to ask the wealthy to "pay their share". Yea, the lady poppin out babies she can't afford is a POS but that's not going to change.
Somehow the wealthy have sold everyone this idea that squeezing the middle class is ok because one day you will rise up and be one of them. LOL
I am FAR from wealthy, but I do believe everyone should pay their fair share. In my opinion a flat tax is the better way to do things. No deductions no credits, no exemptions...nothing. EVERYONE pays the same percentage. So Joe the plumber over here who makes 35K pays 10% (or whatever it is) $3,500, and Harry Rockefeller over here who make 3.5 million pays $350,000. Both pay the same percentage however the more you make the more you pay. THAT is FAIR and equal. Everyone should pay the same according to their income level.
Solid idea but then it would be easier for everyone to calculate their tax ... and i might not have a job. I'll have to lobby against that. :p
There are no easy answers. I don't think the ACA even solves most but its a start to some of the healthcare problems. (many other issues) Sadly, the chances of Congress working together through the problems are dismal. 9% approval rating last i heard. Its sad .... and scary.
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Flat tax would raise unemployment big time, including kg and myself, irs would be minimal and cpa's, tax practitioners, advisors, lawyers , etc would all be in line for the handout. Hence the 80,000 pages of the IRS code. No chance on the forbes flat tax.
Funny you guys bring up the tax part in the ACA discussion, only reason this passed muster in the Supreme Court is because congress has the ability to tax, the penalty for not having healthcare is actually a tax, that's why Roberts had to vote the way he did, invoking taxes is not unconstitutional .
That said, that fool Obama was on the boob tube today! extending another boo boo on his plan!another extension to a poorly executed strategy . This program will unwind faster that a baseball without a cover...
This govt is a frigging mess!
My .02 of course
CPAs will find something else to do. And we need to eliminate 90% of the irs. We are already balancing the budget! Sorry KG haha
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David, you're taxes are going up because you just got married. You HAVE to file jointly now which means your deductions went down. Ah the joys of marriage.
On a not about the original point. My wife and I are self employed. Last year we payed $295 a month for insurance with a $7,200 deductible. That plan has been cancelled and I've been offered a comparable plan at $695 a month. Just a little increase. I would shop for a new plan in the health care marketplace but I'm stuck in a loop on the healthcare website and nobody can figure out why yet. So I wait..........
Pretty sure that 50% of all tax returns filed end up with 0 tax liability, mostly due to low income. And the top 5% of earners already pay over 90% of income tax collected. So this whole concept fo "Fair Share" has no meaning. Recognizing that you can't get blood out of a rock, I don't know what the solution is. "... tax the rich, feed the poor, till there aren't no rich no more ...." Ten Years After. I have a basic problem with the concept of "Q: How much do I owe?, A: How much ya got?", but the money has to come from somewhere.
Found this statistic:
In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 34.6% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 50.5%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 85% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 15%. Financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 42.7%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50.3%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.[9] However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 34.6% to 37.1%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 85% to 87.7%. The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36.1% in median household wealth but a drop of only 11.1% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the top 1% and the bottom 99%.
^ This!! So much this!!
Working with the stats Benson mentioned ... "And the top 5% of earners already pay over 90% of income tax collected" ... that could mean that the top 5% of earners pay too much tax OR it could mean that the top 5% of earners bring in substantially more than the 95% below them.
I've seen statistics saying that to get into the top 1%, you need to make 400k. 400k!!! is a 1%er? That's physicians and successful small business owners, not the "elite". You should be making serious bucks to be in the top 1% of the nations earners.
"you can be a 1 percenter in Arkansas as a whole with family income of $254,000." ... " in Arkansas, 43 percent have family income — family income — below $30,000 a year. You're in the upper third of all Arkansas families if you and your spouse make $50,000 or more."
RCA, you have the option to file separately but in most cases it will benefit you to file together.
From the people I have talked to, individuals like you seem to be the most effected. Guys that had insurance to cover catastrophic events (high deductible plans). They are the ones being forced into more expensive plans.
To top it off, just heard on the radio the insurance industry isn't interested in extending everyone's plans 1 year while the bugs get worked out. Why? Bc they are about to cash in on guys like you while the ACA takes the blame. Administration screwed up this roll out but hopefully they can find a way to work together to iron out the issues.
you don't seriously believe that line you just typed. we saw how well they work together during the last financial crisis.. they don't care. want some real progress on issues there? fine them a hefty penalty every day the govt is closed and eliminate their free healthcare.
Actually, being a former CPA, I'm pretty sure you do not have the option of filing separately. If you are legally married you are required to file joint.
I did say former, as in 25 years ago, lol. So you can file jointly or as Married Filing Separately, but not an individual return like you could before you were married. The MFS usually is worse than the MFJ option if you both work.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/29/pf/t...-income-taxes/
So even if you took all the income from the bottom half of the eraners (not just some percentage in the form of a tax) you still would not have enough to be a significant contributor to the economy.
So you take more from the top half. At what point does the top half see no incentive to be in the top half? Probably never, but it could happen.
There is no question that there is an income gap - but that does not mean that those at the bottom 'deserve' money from those at the top. At least not in a capitalistic society. That's not to say that it wouldn't be nice to have corporations share the wealth a bit - sending more to the workers and a little less to the officers. Who wouldn't want more. It's a complex situation to say the least. But like the Eagles say - Get over it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-Y7MAASkg
This should be in the joke of the day.
Even if your married with a family , have a job and live in another state your covered until 26
benson, your right in that the bottom does not deserve from the top, but we have built it that way with too many tax loopholes and a code that no one really understands. as much as I hate to see KG out a job, it needs to be fixed to be simple. we would feel the effects of layoffs/unemployment for a few years but it would eventually even itself out.
granted this was a few years ago.. guy that worked for me. single breadwinner, 4kids and wife. makes somewhere around 40-43k. at the end of the year, we totalled up his irs federal contributions to the tax pool and it came to $740. he received a refund that year of almost 8grand. progressive flat tax will eliminate some of that pool of $$ being handed out to lower income. no tax deduction, some will think twice about having them. I don't have to tell you that refund didn't go to supporting a family, insurance or the such. new computer, new tv, etc... and I do not believe for a second that this is an isolated incident.
my ex manages an optical shop. I can't tell you how many stories of single moms coming in on medicaid to get glasses for kids or self. they don't like the assortment as it's not really "fashionable" so boyfriend that is with mom whips out cash to pay for trendy products. they have same address, but don't get married as then mom loses benefits..
the whole system is screwed..
I certainly don't have the answers. The balance point between the humanitarian desire to not have people living in poverty vs. the desire to improve ones own condition and or meet your list of wants vs. the "Why do you deserve MY money?" is a difficult juggling act. We are not going to solve it on a waterski forum.
It would be interesting however, if instead of getting money from the government - when peolpe get a check it actually identifies a person - like "You just took $5000 out of the pocket from Joe Blow in Des Moines. He has 3 kids, one in college, and a mortgage and has been working his a$$ off for the last 25 years to improve life for his family. But you get his money. You should thank him."
Maybe if we made everyone in the world responsible for one other person - thats all - and it is not the person that is respsonsible for them. Then everyone would be taken care of.
I bet we could.
Why do I think this? Even with our differences, I am convinced the talent, insight, knowledge, and humility exhibited here by forum members could devise a system of health care that improves the lot of all, without destroying the insurance and healthcare industries, interfering in the doctor/patient relationship, centralizing control, or placing an unwanted financial burden on someone else, today or a future generation. Solutions to big challenges such as this can and need to come from us – you and me, regular Joes. I promise you they cannot come from inside the Beltway. Arrogance, pride, ignorance, immaturity, plain old stupidity, and a deeply disturbed legislative body presumably representing the interests of 330 million citizens defy the capacity for logic and reason. I know. I work there.
Keep the discussion going.
This blows me away! If your whole family income is less than 30,000 a year maybe the problem is staring you back in the mirror! I don't think big business is holding anyone down that low, especially since I work for a huge company and make more than that! When you see stats like that, IMO it doesn't show how bad big business is, just how stupid or lazy our society is. But then again I'm a priceless white kid so that makes up like 90% of my check right?
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Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage.
There is no fault - it is natural selection. Bottom line - not everyone can be a millionaire without taking all the money from the millionaires - but then there probably won't be any millionaires any more.
What do you suppose would happen if the 7.50 / hr folks started getting 50 /hr? The 50 / hr guys would start getting 400 / hr. your $3 burger goes to $10. Inflation. In a capitalisitic society you will always have income stratification. That is the built in incentive. Without that things get pretty dismal. A lot of life is unfair - just the way it is. I know what is like to be poor. In 1977 I was about a month away from being homeless. I was lucky and found work and pulled myself up through poverty to comfortable to slightly more than comfortable. No one helped me. I just lived within my means.
We're on the same page. I'm glad to hear of your recovery from a challenging situation.
It's unfortunate, but a brutal truth that there are plenty of dedicated, motivated and hard working people out there that will struggle to surpass $30k a year and belittling those folks is wrong, IMO.
I'm not belittling but if you are an adult working minimum wage at Walmart trying to support a family you have obviously made some bad and probably down right stupid decisions at some point that put you there. Minimum wage IMO is for people who just got there first job or put themselves there due to poor decision making. I got minimum wage in high school working at spring creek BBQ, within 6 months I had found more money and a better job at best buy. I was off minimum wage before my senior year of high school started.
I guess it's sad but it's not always enough to work hard, you have to make decision too. If you are smart and willing to make some sacrifices there is not reason why you can pull yourself up into the middle class IMO
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I would disagree. I have worked with a lot of people over the years in retail stores that are working for less than $8/hr. many have worked hard and risen to better jobs, but there are some that, simply put, don't have the ability to move beyond that basic entry level job. I really hated to type that but look around any blue collar industry and you will find many in the entry level ranks that will move up and succeed and always a few that their calling in life is that entry level job and don't have the skillset or ability to move beyond that. fact of the matter is we need that job filled and those end up offering some stability to the entry workforce.
I have issues with those maintaining minimum wage jobs, unable to supply for their family and yet they still keep having kids subsidized by taxpayers that have no choice in the matter. if you can't afford them, you shouldn't have them.
I agree with you Sandm. I have a saying that you don't get pick where you are born and the circumstances that surround that. Not everyone is born with the same intelligence or family circumstance to succeed. What if you were born in poverty stricken Africa? It is too easy to criticize or look down on others. In this latest economic downturn, many skilled intelligent people were out of work and forced into lower paying jobs. Many areas within the U.S. have very high unemployment rates and people are just happy to have a job. I too hated to post to this but felt I needed to give my perspective on this.
Historically, if you were willing to make sacrifices and work hard in this country you at least had the opportunity to get yourself and your family ahead. Most of the problem now is that we allow (maybe even teach) people that they don't have to make any sacrifices to get ahead. They deserve not just food and shelter but cell phones and cable and flat panel TV's and new cars. They also deserve alcohol, cigarettes, tatoos, etc. just like everyone else does. Even now if you watch those fortunate enough to be born in this country vs. immigrants who don't or barely speak the language, I'll put my money on the immigrants. They already know what it's like to sacrifice and have NO opportunity. Give them the opportunity and they will make sacrifices until they are successful. Do you know why there are so many successful Chinese laundries, Greek restaurants, Indian 7-11's, etc. Those people seized the opportunity while making personal sacrifices to build something. They also worked incredibly hard. Don't ask me to feel sorry for able bodied poor in this country. That's how my family started too. If you need charity, don't ask this US Govt, go to your church. Oh, that's right, churches are evil and mean to gay people. Sorry. I think FDR created the notion that government is one big fat charity. Well, I have news for you. It can't be. It won't work. We need to separate church and state, including the charity part that everyone loves to ignore. If we all got back to the place where we stopped trying to take everybody else's dollar and committed ourselves to making our own dollar we would all be fine.
I am in total agreement with your viewpoint Kane when it comes to government handouts and that the problem needs to be addressed. I just wanted to point out that there are hard working people who are having a tough time out there. We shouldn't look at people making minimum wage as being lazy or not hard working individuals.
I think I delineated a difference between those who are willing to work hard and those who have NO IDEA what that really means.
That could just as easily read, "Alabama."
There are plenty of small towns in America that have seen their key economic centers/drivers exported to other countries leaving them the choice of staying in their hometown, taking whatever pay they can get or moving in hopes of finding a better future.
I just don't have much sympathy for people who are so unwilling to relocate that they would rather stay out and be poor over move and make a living. Then they cry about how there is no work. If anyone knows someone who needs a job send them to south Louisiana, drilling companies and service companies are hiring, as long as you can pass a physical and a drug test you can find a job offshore. Heck roustabouts who pretty much mop and move stuff around make 50k and that job requires NO skill, just a willingness to work.
I admit that I would be in a world of hurt if the world suddenly ran out of oil, I would be out of a job then but I would do what it takes to survive. If that required moving somewhere that had work where Heidi could also get a job then that's what we would have to do. I wouldn't just sit around expecting a handout.
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I'm touring the community and I found this very interesting stuff. I just love the exchange of ideas.