Anyone seen one of the new Pavati boats in their area? Looks like a really cool boat!Here is a link to their website.
http://www.pavati.com/wake_boarding_boat/
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Anyone seen one of the new Pavati boats in their area? Looks like a really cool boat!Here is a link to their website.
http://www.pavati.com/wake_boarding_boat/
Think its on the fugly side.
racks are to low and the tower base is to wide--blocking to much side vision
sides look unprotected from dock rash too
They look pretty sick to me, I would love to see one in person and ride behind one. I'm definitely still a used boat buyer though, so pretty sure I couldn't afford to own one for about 6 or 7 years if they're just coming on the market now lol!
Never seen one in person. Always thought it was a neat concept. I would think it would be much easier to repair any hull damage, and the thing would last forever!
It's a bit fugly, but cool at the same time.
That front end sure would hurt to get poked by...
That's what she saidQuote:
Originally Posted by sicktc06
got to surf it in oct last year. it was a way cool boat. imagine being able to run your wakeboard boat up on the beach, complete with rocks and not care :)
boat was a wakeboard machine from what I heard, but from a surfing standpoint, every time we stopped to pick up a rider, the wave would wash up against the "rodeo chair" and the bilge pumps(2) could not keep up(you can lift that chair up for complete front of engine access. cool for self service). tons of cool features and with a few tweaks, will be a solid boat. you think the g23/25 has storage, the freeboard on that boat is massive and the first time it came around to pick me up, it's quite intimidating from the water level..
search out the polar bear event put on by Wake9 and you'll see vids of it surfing.
I often question the Moomba brand in their name selection (if they sounded cooler maybe folks wouldn't buy a supra?).
When I read "Pavati", the last thing I think of is a sleek wakeboard boat...
So "Pavati" argues that aluminum is superior because it is lighter, yet their 22 footer weighs more than a Mojo...
Aluminum also corrodes, is louder than fiberglass when on the water (I spent a lot of time in an aluminum crew boat). It's more expensive than fiberglass to repair (by a factor of at least 5), it dents easily, heats up fast, cannot be bent into multiple compound curves, and the list goes on.
The boating market either buys boats based on brand reputation; or switches brands to get a better deal or innovation.
Unless someone thinks aluminum really is an innovation or really digs the looks, I doubt they sell many.
I think aluminum in a wake boat is definitely an innovation, since nobody else has done it. I was doing some internet searching and this boat actually sounds pretty cool. Custom made to your preferences for $65k for the 21ft boat, if that number is realistic, seems like a good deal. I'm not sure if it will ever hang with the big boys, but I'd be willing to bet they will be pumping out a good number of boats in the next few years as word spreads. There's enough rich people that like unique things like this, and if the wake is really great then who knows where it might start showing up.
Innovative - yes
Looks - Not really a great looking boat imo
durability - I'd love to be able to beach it and tie up without worrying my ass off
interior - not very plush, reminds me of a fishing boat but that's their roots so is makes sense
slalom wake - ??
wakeboard wake - ??
surf wake - ??
verdict - never seen one in person let alone ride behind it. Still new so not many reviews out there on it. With a few more years under their belt and some tweaks here and there I think it could be a solid vessel and contender
so a few thoughts..Quote:
Originally Posted by NateHaskovec
more expensive to repair, corrodes, dents easily, heats up fast and cannot be bent into curves.
so why then is it the ONLY material used for boats that are thrashing up and down hells canyon river, loaded with massive boulders that one wrong move would send a boat made out of any other material to a watery grave? and btw, they have been making em that way for years? repairs are as simple as a welded patch panel. if they dented easily(were talking major dents, not a simple dime-sized dimple then why would they be bouncing off rocks in whitewater? don't understand the heats up fast comment other than the topdeck in the sun but that was not an issue on the 90deg day in sacramento the day I was on it, and based on the wake potential I saw, compound angles are a non-issue. amazing what a skilled welder can do.
I do agree with the noise issue as it was somewhat louder from an engine and hitting the wakes perspective.
at the end of the day, take the boat and the company for what it is. a VERY solid fishing/river boat company that has the founders son taking on some of the reigns and he's looking out of the box for some untapped market that they are not currently in. from a business perspective kudos and if they take 5% of the overall market in 3-5 years, I would consider that a success. the boat was very well built, top notch welds, all high end components and some unique features and storage that would be impossible to get out of any other 21ft boat today due to the fiberglas vs auminum hull build process..
don' t discount it until you've been in it and ridden it. is it perfect? no, but the kid took a notebook full of feedback away and if he does anything with it, version 2 at the polar bear this year will be a force.. and fwiw, it was hands down the most talked about boat at the surf event..
I'm curious why the aluminum is more expensive to repair than fiberglass, by a factor of 5 especially. There are plenty of shops around that can weld aluminum; pretty much only boat specific places really do fiberglass repair that I know of. Also the aluminum should hold up better than fiberglass and it can get small dents and still be fine, where as fiberglass can be damaged relatively easily. I've had multiple fiberglass repairs on my boats in the past where I think an aluminum boat wouldn't have even been damaged other than a scratch or a very small dent. I'd definitely rather have small dents or scratches in my boat than cracks. I do own both fiberglass and aluminum watercraft, and I go places and do things with my aluminum boat in ways I would never consider using a fiberglass. I really think repair cost is a pretty insignificant point when we're comparing $65-100k boats, considering how infrequent most people have to get their fiberglass repaired.
Looking on a lot of other forums, what Nate mentioned though were all points I saw brought up. The noise was brought up at length, and Chuck who is apparently the owner talked about how they added reinforcements and dampening in areas to deaden the sound.
I wouldn't think heat is a factor as long as the boat isn't painted black or something dark that absorbs heat and is painted something light. I'm not sure about bare because I don't deal with a lot of bare aluminum in sunlight and heat, but maybe it might not be best to leave it bare as that might heat up in the sun? Although maybe the ambient air temparature cools the bare metal enough to overcome the radiant heat, think about touching aluminum foil coming out of the oven. Of course the boat aluminum is much thicker, so I'm not sure if it correlates.
I thought aluminum was a great material for boats because it won't corrode easily, especially with like zinc anodes?
Definitely a very interesting topic. Definitely hope I get a chance to ride behind one.
I don't know whats not to like. I'm with the guys that see more benefit to aluminum over fiberglass and I think the boats lines look great.
Will be interesting to see where it goes over the next several years. I would have imagined the price being higher than the 60's.
I am shocked that the cost is less than 70k. I would think it would be more time consuming to do all the wields correctly as opposed to the standard Fiberglass Mold construction. Also all the money I assume they are spending on R&D is more than just a little pocket change.
I am sure as their market share starts to grow their price will increase.
Also this is not the first time that I've hear about them being very receptive to input from people who had a pull or ride in the boat. Other people from the polar bear surf event that reviewed the boat said the same thing. That bodes well for the companies future.
And gelcoat/fiberglass repair is not cheap! I'm very excited to see where this company is in 5yrs.
That hasn't been confirmed. The first thing I saw said $100k, but they have 3 models. I saw multiple other people mentioning the company is planning on offering the smallest boat, the 21ft, at around $65k. Like I said before, in my mind that's a bargain to have a customized boat (if they actually offer that option at that price level, or even end up offering the boat at that price level). People were even talking that Pavati was going to allow you to customize the bow shape, interior configuration, dashboard, and all sorts of other stuff at a level of customization not available on the market today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salyers
I will be watching this one closely. I spent much of my life on aluminum boats for commercial operations and contrary to what some people are saying here, nothing is more durable than aluminum in my opinion. I speak from experience. We even considered building a V-drive ski boat back in the 80s that would have been truly revolutionary. If done right, these guys could make a boat that caters to the salt water application and have a real niche market.
And right now it seems like it's all hearsay anyway on pricing. I don't think they have any dealers yet at all so it's all direct and custom. Can't imagine they can sell one for $65k yet.
I know the answer is probably never, but when is somebody going to come up with a good real wake boat for like $25k? I am more shocked every year at the prices of wake boats, especially compared to other boats.
Aluminum is durable and don't deteriorate over time as bad as fiberglas. Most law enforcement boats around here use them for that reason. Weakest point is the hardware hanging under them. A V drive aluminum boat can't go anywhere different than a fiberglas v drive. Most aluminum boats use jet pumps to minimize the draft needed. An outdrive aluminum boat still has draft issues. At our dive rescue, we are looking at a hard bottom (aluminum plate) zodiac with a jet pump outboard just for the rivers and those nasty rocks that go with it.
Because they are crew style boats, like the one I mentioned in my first post. If you are mass producing a hull shape, fiberglass makes more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm
If it is a low freeboard, wide beamed boat that can carry 20+ passengers, there is no reason for a company to build molds for it. There is a very low demand for such a boat. In these situations it is cheaper to fabricate.
These river boats can be beat to death and the owners don't care. I have yet to meet a wake boat owner who would be OK with deep gouges, dents, scratches etc in their 70k+ pleasure craft.
My more expense to repair is true if you care what the repair looks like. They don't.
TIG welding sheetmetal together and metal-finishing the welds requires a craftsman. Mixing resin and using fiberglass cloth is something nearly anyone can do.
Aluminum certainly would offer the ability to do changes to the hull or custom designs much much much easier than glass does. No need to make a new plug, then mold to make a change, just bend it a little differently and there you go. Changes to a molded piece cost a fortune to do and you have to hang onto that mold for quite a few units to recoup the investment. Aluminum, just make the change and keep notes, easy enough. Pretty cool but I'm not sure I like the look of it so far. Maybe one of those, it looks better in person things.
I have seen the pics and toured boats at the boat show that make the sticker prices on our wakeboats look like a kia. $149k for a twin blown engine 28ft river boat with all the trimmings. you are a minimum of 45-50k to walk in the door of a customweld/northwest jet boat designed for big water so to say we care more due to cost is not correct(iirc, about the same as a new lsv?). we care more as a few dimples in a riverboat are no big deal. hit a rock in fiberglas and you open up a potential sinking can of worms or at the least, a stress crack that will get worse with every surf wave it crosses. we buy wakeboats that look good and personalize it for that very reason(stickers/wraps), they buy aluminum to run rivers and know it's going to get beat up. it's designed for it. I would look at the sales numbers from customweld vs moomba and challenge the mass-produced hull shape theory. fiberglas demands a hull for mass production, aluminum just needs welders with precut stringers and hulls. different boats and different production methods.
the pavati was handbuilt, no forms so that will explain some of the lower cost of production and they can customize any part of it to your liking because of that. it's a VERY high freeboard and standing in the storage locker behind the driver seat, the seatbase was at my waist-very deep storage.
I don't work for them/own one or try to plug them, but I can say being on one, it is a unique design that has a place in the market and it seems that some are ready to dismiss it because it's "different"(and have no experience on it). I did hear from some wakeboarders that saw the wake friday night before the surf contest that it was very nice(heard the word mackin used once). the surfwave from our groups opinion had a solid base and had it not been for a few issues(typical with any new production boat) it could have been one of the better in the group. it was absolutely HUGE, just not much length and the transition took a while to figure out.
I would like to see/ride in/ride behind one. And when was that thing is Sac?!! Nobody called me! WTF!Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm
Hell, I was probably busy at Oroville trying to figure out why my ballast pumps weren't working, Oh Well...
- Any idea of what or where that thing is going to show up for us non-industry types??
it was at the polar bear event sponsored by wake9 at oroville. 18 regular and 8 or 10 goofy riders sign up and ride different boards/boats for 2 days. it's a ton of fun but also a ton of work. at the end, you have to write a review of every boat/board you were on.
last year I got lucky and got in with another surfer from Boise, but it typically fills up in a few hours. last year was awesome as shane stillman had Mike Mandleys mojo there and he and I got to surf it fri night(before mike bought it). it's a load of fun if you get a chance to get into it, but it is a commitment and believe it or not, it was work.
mojo wasn't able to be a part of it on the weekend, but that aside, we got to surf a supreme 226, enzo 244, z3 with vx, sanger 237 and the pavati. the enzo was the only stock boat there so the waves were amazing.
if you watch the initial video on the main page, I'm in group 3 and all but 1 of our riders vid are behind the pavati boat so you can see the wake in action.
http://wake9.com/polar-bear-2012/recap.php
Looks like the same one from the 2012 Portland Boat Show?
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k...2/P1080790.jpg
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k...2/P1080778.jpg
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k...2/P1080772.jpg
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k...2/P1080774.jpg
Karma caught me saying this ^^ I gouged my gelcoat really bad in several places this weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wax
I will be posting a DIY thread on gelcoat repair.
The repair will cost $50.
If my boat had been aluminum, the only repair option would have been bondo (or weld fill and grind), and a complete panel re-paint. ($1000 minimum).
That sucks! True, fiberglass is cheap for the DIY, but in all honesty probably 90% of boat owners won't attempt it. I guess my thought was that fiberglass will crack and actually require repair to be seaworthy more than aluminum, since aluminum could get scratches and minor dents without necessarily requiring repair. I can understand how a major aluminum repair would be expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by NateHaskovec
When it comes to a major blow, I would choose aluminum every time. Major shots to the hull don't happen very often to inboards since we have stationary props and they normally hit first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wax
Gelcoat is cheap and easy to fix. Paint work is expensive. Every boat hits the dock, logs, has boarders hit boards on it, kids hitting bike handle bars etc..
These are the things that would keep me away from a hull painted with automotive paint.
agree with the paint statement. I looked at the pavati several times and thought it would be 'spensive to repaint. nice thing about a small company are that you can do anything you like. naked aluminum with stickers just like our boats. simple, cheap to repair when it comes to stickers.
I will say that an all aluminum wakeboat won't ever be as flashy as our gelled and stickered up boat but look at it from the aspect that you can hit the dock a lot and never have to worry about a chip growing. it would be a boat that you could run anywhere and not cringe at what's in the water/around the boat.
there are pro's/con's to both 'glas and aluminum and each company has found a different way to skin the cat so to speak.
that pavati above was the one at the polar bear. lots of work to do with it still and that boat had WAY too many skulls on it for most over 30 but if you step back and look at the quality of the build, it was top notch.