I want a bigger wake

This is my first boat so please bear with my ignorance.

I have a 2005 outback with I'm assuming a stock prop (it is a 3 bladed prop)

I just installed a new dimensions tower this past weekend and went boarding.
Had fun but want to get a better wake.

Here are my questions to the crew:
1)Do they make a wake plate for my boat and will it help all that much?
2)What water bags/ ballast do you all recommend for the boat?
3)How fast should I be going while pulling an adult or being pulled?
4)What rope lenght should I be at. I have a really nice pro line with the Accurate proof handle.

Lastly how long does it take to get the balls enough to do a Raley?
I can catch pretty big air but man I get chicken everytime I cut in.


Thanks for wasting you time reading my plea for help.
Any suggestions?

Chris

1) I am not sure, but I was shopping in 2005 and I think that all models were available with a wakeplate.

2) I upgraded the bags in my XLV from its Gravity III to Fly High 750's in the rear and 1000 lbs in the center. You might not be able to fit ones that big in the Outback, but I can say that the Fly High's came with fittings that mated fine with the boat's plumbing. It was an easy upgrade.

3) Typical speed ranges are 22-24 MPH for tricks that you are ready to try whole hog. For warm-up and practice, it depends on what you are doing, but I'd say that 17-20 MPH is warranted. For surface activities, you can tune it right down to 12-16, depending on weight and board. I basically re-learned wakeboarding from scratch last year after buying "The Book" DVD set, and the most useful thing that I got out of it was the sliding drill at about 12 MPH. It made me much better at landing 24 MPH jumps later.

4) Rope length opinions vary, but so do boat wakes at various speeds. Greater length and lower speeds make the wake that you'll experience be wider. Shorten the rope or speed up the boat and the wake gets narrower. I ride at 65' and 22-24 MPH if I'm trying to go wake-to-wake, or longer/slower if I'm trying to work on technique without clearing the wake. Lots of other people go full length (75-80') and full speed (say, 24 MPH) ASAP.

Raley: I am nowhere near that stage yet. I only just this season managed to get my first heelside wake-to-wake jump landed in the flats.

If you want to maximise your courage, you could try to maximise your protective gear:

a. A properly fitted watersport helmet with ear flaps.

b. A vest with sipes, thick padding, or both. Make sure that it's long enough to protect most or all of your chest and midsection.

c. A Neck Roll (http://cinchmax.com/_wsn/page3.html). This device was created for hydrofoilers to protect their necks in crashes, but is also great for most any watersport. It comes with a disclaimer against any medical benefit, but I find that it pretty much does as you'd expect. It seems to work best in conjunction with a conventionally-shaped helmet that comes low at the back and rear of the skull, as the lower edge would press against the Neck Roll in a crash.

d: Watersport goggles (http://www.bartswatersports.com/catalog.asp?P=4427). These do away with the "eye opener" effect in a face plant.

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Originally Posted by ducatichris

This is my first boat so please bear with my ignorance.

I have a 2005 outback with I'm assuming a stock prop (it is a 3 bladed prop)

I just installed a new dimensions tower this past weekend and went boarding.
Had fun but want to get a better wake.

Here are my questions to the crew:
1)Do they make a wake plate for my boat and will it help all that much?
2)What water bags/ ballast do you all recommend for the boat?
3)How fast should I be going while pulling an adult or being pulled?
4)What rope lenght should I be at. I have a really nice pro line with the Accurate proof handle.

Lastly how long does it take to get the balls enough to do a Raley?
I can catch pretty big air but man I get chicken everytime I cut in.


Thanks for wasting you time reading my plea for help.
Any suggestions?

Chris

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1)Do they make a wake plate for my boat and will it help all that much? Yes they do but it will not be worth the money you spend on it aftermarket.

2)What water bags/ ballast do you all recommend for the boat? You'll be surprised in that boat how a relatively small amount of weight will increase your wake. I would advise a 750 in the rear and a 500 in the front ski locker and see how that works. You should be able to progress nicely on that. When you want more - add a bow sack with something like 500 in it and add a 400 on each side of the motor (assuming it's a direct drive). I suspect a 750 in the back and 500 up front will be plenty.

3)How fast should I be going while pulling an adult or being pulled? To start - 20mph is about "right". As you increase the weight in the boat and your skill level, you'll want to raise the speed. We run a BUNCH of weight in our boats and have SICK wakes and we ride between 23.6 and 24mph.


4)What rope lenght should I be at. I have a really nice pro line with the Accurate proof handle. This depends on the wake and the rider level. For newer riders, shorten the rope so wake to wake jumps are easier. For more advanced riders - have the rope as long as you can ride it so you're still hitting the meaty part of the wake. If it's washed out where you're hitting it, shorten it up 5 feet and go again.

A Raley is an advanced trick. Unless you are nailing some inverts, have solid switch riding and can take all of your jumps w2w - you should hold off on the Raley. I've seen a lot of people get hurt trying to hit Raleys too early in their wakeboarding career. Be careful and have fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducatichris

. . . want to get a better wake. . . .
I get chicken everytime I cut in.

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I don't know how you reconcile these two statements. You are afraid of what you have now but you want a larger wake. Go get "The BOOK" and start over. Practice technique without taking shortcuts and you'll know when you need more wake.

i think chicken was referring to the raley. The book dvd is a great tool, i am only on chapter 2 and thats all i need.;)

Thanks for the insight everyone.
I guess I should have given a little bit of my skill level first also.

I can get plenty of air on my jumps and can land w2w no problem, and I can also do a back roll and almost land it but I have always let go of the handle in the past.

Are there any aftermarket wake plates you guys would recommend or should I start with a fat sac first?

doesn't the wake plate push the bow down and raise the transom to reduce the wake size? with our lsv, if the plate is down, then the wake is smaller, if the plate is up, the wake is bigger.

i think you would get more wake from sacs not a plate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yearround

doesn't the wake plate push the bow down and raise the transom to reduce the wake size? with our lsv, if the plate is down, then the wake is smaller, if the plate is up, the wake is bigger.

i think you would get more wake from sacs not a plate.

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The wakeplate changes the wake's shape, not its size. Bow down gives you a softer ramp, bow up gives you a sharper, steeper ramp. In the operating range of the wakeplate, there won't be any significant change to the energy imparted, so the wake size will be the same overall.

The wake's shape can also vary with boat speed, so the wakeplate allows the driver to make small adjustments to compensate. On my XLV, I ride with the wakeplate down up to 22 MPH, then have the driver put it up about halfway at 23 MPH, as this threshold appears to slightly blunt the wake at 65'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducatichris

Thanks for the insight everyone.
I guess I should have given a little bit of my skill level first also.

I can get plenty of air on my jumps and can land w2w no problem, and I can also do a back roll and almost land it but I have always let go of the handle in the past.

Are there any aftermarket wake plates you guys would recommend or should I start with a fat sac first?

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Dont even consider an aftermarket wake plate. If you don't have one - dont' think about it.

Just put weight in the boat. Fat sacs. The more you put in - the bigger the wake will get. Don't think about a wakeplate anymore. It's a nice OEM option but not worth the money for aftermarket. It will only shape your wake, not make it bigger.

Get a 750 or 900 lbs for the rear and a 500-750 for the front and you'll be VERY happy with the wake.

Well, if it's just the raley you are sweating I wouldn't call that chicken. Agree that ballast is the way to go.

Do I need to get ones in the bow of the boat also.

How necessary is it?

I am currently looking at the 750lb. fat sac for the rear under the seat when it is in the top positon.

Any help and recommendation is more than welcome.

Another question is do I need a special pump to fill these things up?

Thanks again.

Chris

the fly high tsunami pump. i just bought one for 99 smacks (can't find it less anywhere)

this is a good deal 1/2 price refurbed. I wish i waited two weeks:mad:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fly-High-Fat-Sac...634.m332.l1262

Well with my 07 outback i have 750 in rear and then 400lb in the bow. I actually try to sit the front sack as close to the motor as possible in the bow walkway. I like wake more rampier. Plus it helps when only two or three ppl are in the boat. One thing i should mention is the 750lb sac when full will push ur back seat up. I believe the seat sits 18inches from the carpet and the 750lb sac is 20inches tall. But i dont even carry the back seat with me any more due to broken supports on where the seats sit in the up position and b/c sac pushes it up off the supports. You will also need to do some plumbing if ur boat comes with a ballast or just buy a pump which works a whole lot faster (filling/unfilling). I load my outback to 2k ballast (sacs/ppl), and it is a prty nice wake.

Another point,
With that much more weight in the boat you have to be very carefull not to take water in over the bow. I have the 07 outback as well and learned very quickly (even with no extra ballast or people in the front) that it's easy to do if not carefull.

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Originally Posted by Limishowman3

Well with my 07 outback i have 750 in rear and then 400lb in the bow. I actually try to sit the front sack as close to the motor as possible in the bow walkway. I like wake more rampier. Plus it helps when only two or three ppl are in the boat. One thing i should mention is the 750lb sac when full will push ur back seat up. I believe the seat sits 18inches from the carpet and the 750lb sac is 20inches tall. But i dont even carry the back seat with me any more due to broken supports on where the seats sit in the up position and b/c sac pushes it up off the supports. You will also need to do some plumbing if ur boat comes with a ballast or just buy a pump which works a whole lot faster (filling/unfilling). I load my outback to 2k ballast (sacs/ppl), and it is a prty nice wake.

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JeffW is correct. Add weight. The wakeplate will do practically nothing for an Outback. Also, the more weight to the front of an Outback, the better the wake. We had my 2001 Outback dialed in this week. We had about 600# in the bow, about 600# in the aft ski locker, and another 250# in the floor between the observer seat and the engine box. There were only two of us (one rider, one driver) and the wake was the biggest I have ever seen behind my boat. I hit it one time and I jumped so high, that it scared me and I screamed like a girl and let go of the handle! Not my proudest moment. You do have to be careful with the bow though. We dunked it several times. At rest, the bow rail is only about 3 inches above the water. A couple of times we took on so much water that we just sat there for a few minutes so the bilge pump could do its job. I am thinking of upgrading the bilge pump this winter, because the wake is worth it.

I havnt put in the boaw sack yet. I do get the ski locker completly full and have peeps up front and my D ring is in the water at idle.

The best way i found to not take water over the Bow is when you get off the throttle. Float forward. Dont turn at all jsut let the boat flow about 30 or 45 seconds. Then you can turn and idle back to your rider.

Course it works best when others arnt ridding near but i had to learn the hard way this summer between me and Claudia driving and taking rollers over the nose i was for ever cleaning and airing the nose out on the days we wernt in the garage. In the NW its so humid and damp that the carpets never dry unless its in direct sunlight.

Just my exp.

as far as getting a bigger wake, your best bet is to just weigh that girl down. as for the bags, i'm not sure - depends on if you are just piling them on the floor, stacking them on the seats, or in compartments. fly high is probably the best company to get your ballast bags from. they will make custom ones if you want (fatsac.com). otherwise you can find deals on used ballast bags on wakeworld.com or wakeboarder.com.

as for the rope length, you have to play with that a little bit. a lot will depend on your speed (average for a beginner/intermediate is 21-24 mph) and the amount of weight you have in your boat. it is not an exact science - you have to dial it in depending on what you have to work with. i ride at 25.5 mph at with a 75 ft rope only because i run close to 2400 lbs of ballast and it is hard on my knees when i land way out in the flats. i'd rather have a wider wake that is still big where i can land on the downslope of it while still catching big air.

the prop isn't necessarily going to change the size of the wake. i upgraded my boat to the wakeboard prop which helps me get a better hole shot.

i've been wakeboarding since 1991 and i still can't do a raley. IT IS AN ADVANCED TRICK. once you've got your 180's, 360, tantrum, and hs backroll, then maybe think about a raley. like one other guy said, "the book" is the best instructional i've seen. for raley's you need lots of ab strength. trampoline work helps. lessons at a cable park will also help.

Thanks for your input.
I bought a 750lb sac for the back and a the tsunami pump.
I am waiting to same up some more money to buy a couple more tube sacs (to put in the bow) from one of the members here and then I should be set.
Any body have a copy of the book I can borrow and copy?

Thanks again guys.

Chris.

Dude, if you only put that 750# sac in the rear of on Outback, you are going to be dissapointed. The wake will be crappy, the boat will struggle to get on plane, and it won't drive worth a damn. Trust me, we used to do the same thing with my Outback. We had so much weight in the back, the platform was under water 6-8 inches, and the wake was crap. The general rule of thumb for weighting a boat is 60% rear & 40% front. Well, with an Outback, I have had the best results doing the opposite. Also, when my boat is loaded and has the best wake, the platform is barely any deeper in the water than when the sacs are all empty.

Where can I get '' The Book" oh and a wife thats not afraid to drive wouldnt hurt either!:cool:

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Originally Posted by KJSCIBER

Where can I get '' The Book" oh and a wife thats not afraid to drive wouldnt hurt either!:cool:

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I taught Claudia how to drive this spring and i know she was scared. Shes still afraid she might hurt me when pulling me up or something like that.

We came up with a game i called wake boarder down in the spring when it was too cold to board but i just had to be out on the water.

I let her drive. I would say ok your boarder is ready pull him up. She would accelerate up to 20mph and i would try to judge by how fast she pulled if she needed to go easier on the throttle or what. I would watch her speed increase smoothly and not jerky. I showed her how to hold and use the throttle.

Then with out warning i would toss my $4 rubber football over the back of the boat. Say Wake Boarder down.

Then she had to slow it down and turn the boat and go get the ball. WHat really helps is she had to get close enough to the ball for me to grab it over the side, if she went to fast the the boat wake would push it away. Yet if you run over the ball it wont hurt it as its rubber and wont hurt the prop eighter.

This is a silly little game at first but it really teaches you a lot for when you get a rider in the water. It gives her something physical to drive up to.

With this she was able to get used to acceleration, slowing down, turning, approaching the rider, and built her confidence a lot.

Now when she started pulling me the first time it was some trial and error as to how fast or slow to hit the throttle but at least she knew how the throttle feels all the time.

She said she was realy glad we played wake boarder down because she was able to get a lot more comfortable with the boat and not worry about other people or anyone in the water getting hurt.

She does get nervous if other riders are in the lake near us now but shes became a very good driver in only 1 season.

Thats almost the same way i taught my wife and two daughters how to drive,pulling either a skier or wakeboarder,only using a bumper to simulate a person.Its a nice way to get a little practice especially if no one else is around.
When pulling a real person,ie ME, when there is any amount of traffic around to make things simple and safe we just stay as straight as possible and when its time to stop i signal just to cut the throttle and i will sink then pull/swim myself back to boat just so no one gets paniced and or hurt.
This is when i have inexperienced drivers pulling me otherwise i use the boat to its full advantage and will also use it to protect MY skiers/boarders from harms way from others.