So what would everyone want to see on the new 23s?
The next Supra in the 'rotation' would be SE, but then the newer ideas will flow over to the SA, SL, etc.
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So what would everyone want to see on the new 23s?
The next Supra in the 'rotation' would be SE, but then the newer ideas will flow over to the SA, SL, etc.
I am ordering a 2023 SL this week and dealer told me no major changes for 2022 to 2023 SL.
I am wondering if the SE and SA will get the bow walkthrough/air damn.bowfiller combo. Also, if the SA/SE will get the observer cutout like the SL has (not sure if SE already has this). Finally, would be nice if they put the battery cover and flush amp rack in the SA/SE that the SL has.
Those are the features that sold me on the SL over the SA. If the SA had those features I would be looking harder at the SA.
Some things I would like to see on the SA/SE line:
As mentioned flush amp rack and battery like the SL with accessible jump start lugs.
The bow seat, arm rest, air dam config of the SL
Memory drivers seat with driver 1 and driver 2 settings
Wearable transfer switch like Nautiques have
Covered Trickle charger plug on exterior of boat ( the 22 plug set-up is horrible)
Incorporate Sonic’s trash chute for the trash in the starboard bench end with 5 gal can
Cooler compartment in OB compartment that opens into walkway, or a lifting mechanism for the floor cooler (thinking air bag or water bladder)
12v cooler option
Hinged corner cushions
Factory completed ceramic coating option
Same key for surf locker and ignition
Key/wrist FOB or phone key app for ignition
Better hinges for the transmission hatch (the only greater frustration in life is having with a teenage daughter)
Plug holder in battery switch compartment
Less useless swag. Towel was good, thermal cup was meh, and key chain went to donation. I’d rather the price be lowered the $20 those items cost.
2022 SA 450
Factory ceramic coating would be bad idea.
There are so many factory scuffs, scratches,mars and gloss correction that is required on a new boat before I would ceramic coat it.
The leather key chain is bolted to my tower and works as a rope holder.
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Good deal. What is your build date?Quote:
Originally Posted by mgswake
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Curious to see the new colors on both Supra and Moomba.
I'm betting the ballast is increased from 4100#s to somewhere around 4500-4750#s for the SE.
As brought up before in the 2023 Moomba wishlist, a rudder position indicator would be great. I hate going back and forth between full lock to find center.
2022 SA 450
https://www.amazon.com/Davis-385-Rud.../dp/B005GT6EZ0
I know some would never use this, but I'm not uppity and more DIY with finding solutions for my SA. Put this on my steering wheel a couple years ago, very simple and works great! Also, people having issues, just don't go WOT on takeoff, ease into the throttle. That does 2 things, keeps the prop from slipping so it engages better and uses less gas and it gives the driver time to correct the rudder to straight while not being under load.
I used to want a rudder indicator, however it just really isn’t that critical. Even at full lock it’s easy to correct quickly.
You get a little wiggle, but net result to rider is minimal.
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My buddy just wrapped his July build on a 23 Se. Essentially has all the updated features Of the 22SL but updated ballast to 4700 lbs. The shocker is the 2023 msrp prices. His build price was 271k msrp. For comparison sake we built a 2022 sl and se before finalizing our purchase. They were within 1500 of each other with an msrp of 231-233k. We ended up going going the sl route. Essentially almost a 15% increase from 22-23.
Wow. At that rate Supra will be overpriced just like Nautique and MC.
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They are overpriced IMHO. I wish one of the big companies would make a budget boat without all the fancy electronics. I just want a nice wake machine. Heck, Axis and Moomba are well over 100k now. Even Heydays are over 100k. Seems like the rising prices at the top just kept dragging the lower end brands up in price. Hard to even find a deal on a used boat right now. The past year or two, they have all been priced over what the original owners paid. I can't see how people keep dishing out the money for these boats. When you start approaching 200-300k what average person has that kind of money to throw at a wake boat? It is baffling to me, but the demand seems just as high as ever.
Mind is blown that in 2018 a well equipped SA could be had for $100k with dealer discount and potentially a 2023 SA would be $230k with dealer discount……
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I’m not seeing over 200k quotes for 2023 SA or SL from my dealer. What specs are y’all seeing these builds at? Even if I opt for 450 engine, thrusters, etc the build is not that high, at least in my area.
I agree with everyone these prices are absurd and hard to swallow, especially when you look at just a few years ago how steep the price has climbed. Weigh that against the latest tech or do-dads and it’s really hard to swallow in some cases. I’ve been weighing out an upgrade and would likely go SL over SA but I just don’t know if the cost over my Max is really going to be worth the squeeze when I only use the boat every other week or so at our current boat usage rate. That being said love the new Supra boats!
@haknslash Are you pricing the 2023? I think there is a big price increase coming that hasn’t been applied to the online builder yet. Or, have you priced 2023’s with your dealer?
I spec’d an SL400 2022 and it was 182,000 before dealer discount. Add a 450/550 and thruster and you are at or over 200k. That is a 2022, prices are jumping up for 2023.
[QUOTE=haknslash;379710]I’m not seeing over 200k quotes for 2023 SA or SL from my dealer. What specs are y’all seeing these builds at? Even if I opt for 450 engine, thrusters, etc the build is not that high, at least in my area.
I agree with everyone these prices are absurd and hard to swallow, especially when you look at just a few years ago how steep the price has climbed. Weigh that against the latest tech or do-dads and it’s really hard to swallow in some cases. I’ve been weighing out an upgrade and would likely go SL over SA but I just don’t know if the cost over my Max is really going to be worth the squeeze when I only use the boat every other week or so at our current boat usage rate. That being said love the new Supra boats![/QUOTE
A lot of it has to do with options
We had 70k just in options over the standard price. You start adding thrusters, 550, and trailer options it adds up pretty quick.
Ya the new prices are a real bummer. Does anyone think that these MSRPs will hold long term?
You will never see MSRP’s drop, as we enter a recession, and interest rates continue to increase and buying power drop, discounts off MSRP will return.Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSurf4
But you will never see a 2025 MSRP be less than a 2024 MSRP
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2022 SA pretty easy to get above 200k, add 15% price hike and it’s in the $230k’s
A 230% price increase in 5 years.
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I had to look up the equation, but 230% seemed off. It’s 130% increase. But still just mind blowing that the prices have increased so much. Prior to Covid I complained about increases and now they are just getting worse.
I truly blame walesurfing as it has just exploded in participation. And, because of the low impact and relatively low learning curve compared to other water sports, it has brought with it a older crowd with better credit and deeper pockets. That’s not supposed to be a dog at wakesurfing, just my rationale on what is driving up prices. Also, the supply chain issues and inflation.
LOL! Low impact, Old guy, low learning curve! You just profiled me perfectly! Ha, Ha. But hey, old guy is relative you know!
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These days you have to grow old before you can afford a boat, so old guys wakesurfing is going to be the new norm.
2022 SA 450
Not trying to insult anyone. I have seen wakesurf injuries, just not as many as skiing and wakeboarding. And the learning curve more for getting up. The tricks are still difficult. And you are right old is a relative term. But I’ve seen people in middle age coming back to boating or just getting into solely based on their wakesurfing experience. This is all anecdotal from talking with friends, forum posts, and FB posts
Thanks for correcting, yes, still mind blowingQuote:
Originally Posted by mgswake
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I'm not insulted.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgswake
Just poking fun
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Idk man, my buddies ‘19 T22 is just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgswake
A wake tractor. Nothing more in my opinion lol.
No frills. At all.
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Yes quotes are for 2022 build sheet with an $18k 2023 price increase line item tacked on. I don’t think my dealer has updated their spec sheet to say 2023 until after the 2023 SC dealer meeting happening I think this week or very soon. Boat was moderately equipped with 400 and prop upgrade. Only options I didn’t splurge on were trailer options or 2 pair of tower speakers etc. had enough room to add 450 engine and thrusters not going over $200k. Idk. I can’t really fathom upgrading right now since my Max does plenty for what really matters without the luxury. We have been waiting on housing market to crash so we can get in on a home foreclosure. After then a boat upgrade maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgswake
You are exactly right about the wakesurf only crowd driving up prices. But we also have way better tech now and boats are so much easier to use than 5-10 years ago. 6 pump ballast has been a blessing, knowing the running attitude of the boat at a glance and other advances. But yeah, upper middle class that only surf are driving prices up. Sucks to say that I am priced out of the new Supra market. Even a new well equipped Mojo is $20k higher than I paid for our brand new SA in '18.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgswake
Just a few things to think about…. there is a lot at play here…. everything is through the roof pricing wise. So much has changed in 10 years with the build quality and tech on these boats... just like automotive, Ag equipment and about anything else. Corona also drive prices of everything from raw materials to micros up and the supply chain still hasn’t recovered. Many of these price increases are likely only maintaining margin on sales, it’s a tough place to be. Corona also drive people outside… and into hobbies that were family/close friend oriented such as boating. Many of our local sporting good/outdoor stores were waiting on truck loads of pre-sold kayaks not too long ago too.
And sure, “old” people surf… but I think there are more young people not skiing, kneeboarding and wakeboarding and opting to surf instead. Just like everything else, things change. Often times, I’m also seeing wakeboats being used by people who don’t even participate in water sports… maybe a tube but the racks are empty and they’re anchored up or on the beach.
I think if you looked at runabouts or pontoon boats, pricing growth would be similar.
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I am tapped out of Supra now too. But honestly a GEN2 or GEN3 SA is leaving me wanting for nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnoxMojo
One bonus with high gas prices is Lake traffic is way down this season.
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Gas isn't stopping anyone around us so far, but have a feeling the longer it lasts, the less traffic there will be. A 2020 SA would be awesome some day, could have traded mine in on a used one, but would have had to throw down another $20k or so. No thanks, lol. My 18 has been pretty rock solid other than the V drive, now having the 1.7, no huge reason to upgrade.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
That 1.7 is the best upgrade available.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnoxMojo
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I’ve noticed less traffic as well the few times we’ve been out this season. Still fairly crowded but nowhere near 2020 or 2021 amount of boaters.
I have looked at Axis, but in my opinion they should be closer to 80k new. At the price range of a new Axis, you might as well just get into a premium boat. I have been waiting for my wife to finish her residency so I have been watching boat prices for the past 4 years or so. I was really looking hard at used G23's. Prior to covid, a 2016-2017 used G23 were 85-100k. That was in 2018-2019. Now three years LATER and those same boats are 100-120k. I know a lot of that has to do with supply/demand and covid pricing, but my whole frustration is it feels like there has been more than just those outside factors causing price increases. New prices have jumped and used boats got a huge inflation and in a lot of cases are selling for more than they were bought for. I know its a free market and people can sell for whatever there boat commands, but I just think it is crazy that a depreciating asset for years becomes an apprcieting asset overnight. Again, its a free market and more power to them, but how long can these prices continue to rise? We have already had a couple people say they are priced out.Quote:
Originally Posted by j.mo
it's happening everywhere. we sold our chevy silverado in december for more than I paid for it 1 year old in 2017. the colorado I bought to replace it was priced right at msrp for a 5 year old truck with 36k on the clock. I did the quick math before finalizing and had we done the deal 2 years earlier before all the nonsense the actual out of pocket cash would have been very similar. if you are trying to get into the market as a first time, it's stupid expensive. if you're selling to upgrade, not quite as painful as you are going to net more at trade in on your current whip.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgswake
been tempted a couple times to sell the '17 kawi z650. I got a steal on it as a 2 year old leftover in '19 and I could sell today for 2k more than I paid for it. I want a bigger ride and pricing for them is crazy but looking at actual out of pocket to do it, it's not bad.
go back to covid 2020 and all the free money they gave away to both individuals and companies drove a lot of this as well. there's also dealer greed. the tige I bought in 2020 caused a little ruckus when a couple closer "local" dealers found out what I paid from a dealer 1500 miles away. there was almost 15k difference between dealers.
An observation…….
I Bought a NEW leftover stock 2003 Honda Aquatrax R12x (MSRP $10k) in 2005 for $6900 with a trailer out the door.
Rode it for 6 years and sold it to one of my friends in 2011 for $4600.
He rode it for 10 years and sold it summer 2021 for $8200.
18 year old PWC sold for more than I paid new. CRAZY!!!
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I have a feeling access to capital may become a factor in demand.
Not so easy to get a heloc or refinance homes with the rates they are.
I’ve never financed a boat, so I’m not exactly sure, but I believe these are the most common forms of financing for them? At least In regards to the new market.
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Just checked my credit union, still 3.99 for up to 20 years.
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Wow. Will they do a house for that rate?! 20 year homea are in the 5+ range most placesQuote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
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No, rates are in the 5’s for mortgage and 6-8% on HELO’sQuote:
Originally Posted by HFarr
But still low on boats
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