2022 Mojo vs 2017 Nautique G23 and 2017 Mastercraft x23 - for surfing

I'm buying my first boat and I'm prioritizing surfing as #1. I'll be teaching my 8 and 10 yr old boys to surf and will probably take out a lot of my coworkers on a regular basis.

The Mojo is $107k and the G23 is $130K and the x23 is $125K. I'm ok with the extra cost of the G23 or X23, but only if it's actually a better surf wave. For those that have been on any of these, is the G23 or X23 better? I understand the G23 hull design is geared towards surf/wake, so I believe it creates a good wave with less ballast weight. Not sure on the X23.

As for the actual boat, I've seen them, but not been on the water in any of them. The G23 is very nice, but the Mojo is pretty good for the price. Any other big considerations between the three?

Thanks!


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The Mojo will be the lighter boat of the 3 and will likely require more ballast to put out a big wave, unless you have a large crew onboard. I’ve never surfed behind a G23 or an X23 but I’d say the G will have the better wave out of the box of the 3 boats you’re looking into. It has a steep shape and lip that some people like and others don’t like. I’d be sure to surf demo all of them. A Supra would be a more comparable wave to the Nautique or MasterCraft boats than the Moomba will. That being said you can make a Moomba throw a big meaty wave with the right ballast setup.

If buying new your dealer will be nearly as important besides the brand of boat. You could buy a badass boat but have a crappy dealer ruin the ownership experience. So I would not only shop the boats but also shop the dealerships. That sometimes will matter more than surf performance.

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Originally Posted by haknslash

The Mojo will be the lighter boat of the 3 and will likely require more ballast to put out a big wave, unless you have a large crew onboard. I’ve never surfed behind a G23 or an X23 but I’d say the G will have the better wave out of the box of the 3 boats you’re looking into. It has a steep shape and lip that some people like and others don’t like. I’d be sure to surf demo all of them. A Supra would be a more comparable wave to the Nautique or MasterCraft boats than the Moomba will. That being said you can make a Moomba throw a big meaty wave with the right ballast setup.

If buying new your dealer will be nearly as important besides the brand of boat. You could buy a badass boat but have a crappy dealer ruin the ownership experience. So I would not only shop the boats but also shop the dealerships. That sometimes will matter more than surf performance.

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Not gonna lie the g23 is pretty sweet ride, my surf coach has one. But my 2017 Craz with lead and upgraded ballast bags absolutely destroys his surf wave.

It really depends on what you like, the g23 looks awesome and I'm jealous of it until I surf it. I'd rather spend that extra cash on upgrades, gas and a slip. :)

Go sit in the boats and figure out what you want to do with it. Looks or function. Just remember with moomba, you need to add weight, so factor in an additional 2-3k for ballast upgrades. Once you do it'll perform as good or better as the stock more expensive boats.

If I had your budget I'd be looking at a supra.. :)

If anyone that could be truly non-biased is reading this (like maybe Wake9?), it would be cool to see a wave shootout comparison on three different boats all at the same time![emoji2]

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in the end, none of you are going to be on the pro surfing circuit for some time if ever. all 3 boats will put out a wave that will be a ton of fun to enjoy and someone will always have a boat with a "better" wave. the last 5 years or so have not really produced any "poor" surf boats from any of the bigger names and even heyday has a wave that most say is good.

that said, if it was my coin, I'd take the mojo ALL DAY LONG as it has a warranty and lower cost to add more cash into gear. mastercraft would not even be in the hunt for us as you are paying a lot of money for that name on the side and materials/fit/finish that don't command it. nautty is a solid boat and it will show a much better interior and fit/finish than the moomba but it's also used. unless you plan on living on them, once you are out on the water enjoying the sun and wave, 99% of your guests won't care the name on the side and in the end you are the only person that will ever care that the nautty upholstery is "X" mm thicker than the moomba or that the x23 has 3 more cupholders that are positioned better.

good luck and whichever you choose, your family and the memories coming are the big winner.

Mastercraft would be out for me, two reasons.

1) Ugly ass tower
2) bow rise is high when surfing.


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If this is your first boat, here are two important items:
1) Dealer
2) Warranty

If your area has a 'bad rap' for service on one brand, that is not going to help you when something happens and you do not want to loose water time over the summer.

With a 2017, things WILL start to break. So, what is the warranty? And when things break on these new boats, they cost $$. For example, on a 2017 w/o warranty if you do not mind spending a few thousand dollars if the screen goes out, it's not a big deal.

I'm sure you are going to the other sites as well. I've been on all three boats and I'm not brand hating:
1) Mojo
* New and Warranty
* Best boat in the Moomba line for size and performance
* Not crazy price and holds it value b/c they do not produce that many. You will have extra $ for surf boards.
* It will not have the high-end features like a NAUT, MC, or Supra
* Go to WAKE9 and watch their Mojo videos. I've been on their boat and what you see is what you will get will add'l ballast.

2) G23
* Anyone hating on a G is blowing smoke. It throws great waves and wakes.
* High dollar boat with nice features, thus could be expensive when something breaks
* If you go over to the Naut sites, you will hear about bow spray. I think it affects this model. When surfing and windy, the water spray against the hull causes the people in the boat to get 'spray'. Some do not care and with others it drives them nuts.
* I was looking at used G23 before I bought my Supra SL, but my buddy sells Supra/Moomba and I've been treated right.

3) X23
* Deep boat and nice finishes. Handles rough water very well b/c of the hull design.
* I'm not sold on the surf wave. Over the years reading on the MC forums, the X23 was not fan favorite even with the MC loyalists. It sounded like a lot of X23s new owners then switched/moved to the XT, XStar, and then the X22. They have a lot of models. They switch out and retire too.
* MC peeps also complained how loud the boat was. I think it was the transmission.

Overall, good of for you. Any of these boats are great. Have fun taking them for test rides. Look for things like:
* Bow rise
* Easy of setting up the wave
* How the helms are setup and features
* What 'extras' on on the boat to make one stand out over the others?

Sandm has good points, even though he just smashed my hopes and dreams for becoming a superstar! (I am quietly crying inside right now, LOL) it is very true that all of the boats out there now that are designed to surf will put out a good wave, and one you can surf all day thinking it is the best. He is right that there is ALWAYS a better wave out there. Even by the same exact boat that the other guy has set up his way verses yours. So just get the one you really feel you like the best. You will have fun regardless!

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Originally Posted by HFarr

Sandm has good points, even though he just smashed my hopes and dreams for becoming a superstar! (I am quietly crying inside right now, LOL) it is very true that all of the boats out there now that are designed to surf will put out a good wave, and one you can surf all day thinking it is the best. He is right that there is ALWAYS a better wave out there. Even by the same exact boat that the other guy has set up his way verses yours. So just get the one you really feel you like the best. You will have fun regardless!

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Yep, even which side you surf makes a huge difference, G23 goofy is the better side, Moomba is port.. :)

Hey guys, thanks SO much for the replies, makes a lot of sense. I'm going to move forward with the Mojo!

One more question, I don't think it comes with the surf exhaust, is this a must have?

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Originally Posted by Homer2022

Hey guys, thanks SO much for the replies, makes a lot of sense. I'm going to move forward with the Mojo!

One more question, I don't think it comes with the surf exhaust, is this a must have?

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I'd add it, makes the boat quieter overall and will be better while surfing from the exhaust smell. I'll never not have another boat without 1! And congrats! You're going to love it.

As others have said, the MC tower is just WAY to ugly. They are nice boats and I came from a mastercraft to a moomba. The mojo will need a ton of weight added whereas the MC and the Nautty will too, just not as much. I would suggest getting the biggest ballast installed for ANY of them. As far as fit and finish the G will be the best no doubt. They are amazing boats but you also pay much more for them. MC is quality too, but they have been falling behind IMO for the last number of years in tech and i am starting to consider them as a niche boat not sure why. I don't think they do anything the "best" but do most things well. As others said, Supra would be worth a look as that is directly competing with MC an Natique. Properly weighted i don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices. that being said, make sure you trust your dealer and let that guide you as well. None of them are worth a damn without a good dealer.

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Originally Posted by Homer2022

Hey guys, thanks SO much for the replies, makes a lot of sense. I'm going to move forward with the Mojo!

One more question, I don't think it comes with the surf exhaust, is this a must have?

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I would add it to any new build.

I had it on my previous Supra. My current 2018 SL does not have it. I was going to install one last summer, but there was a part delayed and then I waited b/c to lose wkend water time. This winter project.

I REGRETTED IT! When surfing and I could smell exhaust which makes me think of what I cannot smell - like carbon dioxide w/no odor.
Plus, it's one of the best stereo upgrades.

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Originally Posted by MJHSupra

I would add it to any new build.

I had it on my previous Supra. My current 2018 SL does not have it. I was going to install one last summer, but there was a part delayed and then I waited b/c to lose wkend water time. This winter project.

I REGRETTED IT! When surfing and I could smell exhaust which makes me think of what I cannot smell - like carbon dioxide w/no odor.
Plus, it's one of the best stereo upgrades.

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Don't forget autowake and g6 ballast, those are must haves.. :) oh and the larger screen!

Out of the three options the Mojo for sure! However if my budget was looking into 125K 2017 boats I would take a hard look for a RI257 I've seen several lately for around that price and since you main goal is surfing...

Surf exhaust is an absolute must. It should be standard on all builds for safety reasons.

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Originally Posted by Josh828

Out of the three options the Mojo for sure! However if my budget was looking into 125K 2017 boats I would take a hard look for a RI257 I've seen several lately for around that price and since you main goal is surfing...

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solid point. the 2021 ri237 was hands down the best surfing boat I have ever been on BUT be mindful of the engine/exhaust issues that can lead to hydrolock.

If it hasn’t already been mentioned, if you go with new Moomba you will be getting factory warranty but the trade-off will be that you will have to eat the depreciation on the new boat while the used boats will hold their value better. Boat prices are at their peak right now. When the inevitable crash comes the new boats will take the biggest hit.

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Originally Posted by Tommy2slow

If it hasn’t already been mentioned, if you go with new Moomba you will be getting factory warranty but the trade-off will be that you will have to eat the depreciation on the new boat while the used boats will hold their value better. Boat prices are at their peak right now. When the inevitable crash comes the new boats will take the biggest hit.

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I can tell you there is currently zero depreciation on a 2021 so far, perhaps equity versus price paid at this point


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Originally Posted by larry_arizona

I can tell you there is currently zero depreciation on a 2021 so far, perhaps equity versus price paid at this point


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these prices can't sustain. at some point as tommy mentions the market is going to fall. I don't see it crashing but there is a market correction that needs to happen or a few years of zero price increases which will impact everyone.

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Originally Posted by larry_arizona

Mastercraft would be out for me, two reasons.

1) Ugly ass tower
2) bow rise is high when surfing.


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We have friends with a x23 and we a morning on my Makai and the afternoon on his x23 and the bow rise was nuts in comparison. Driver has to almost stand at the helm to see over the bow. My Makai I sit comfortably, don't even need the booster, and can see over the bow. I know that might not be a primary driver but it looked super annoying.

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Originally Posted by sandm

these prices can't sustain. at some point as tommy mentions the market is going to fall. I don't see it crashing but there is a market correction that needs to happen or a few years of zero price increases which will impact everyone.

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I don’t disagree, but with 22’s so much higher than 21’s and likely 1-2 more years of price creep, those in 20-21’s will be price sheltered.


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Originally Posted by larry_arizona

I don’t disagree, but with 22’s so much higher than 21’s and likely 1-2 more years of price creep, those in 20-21’s will be price sheltered.

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will be interesting to see how the market is in mid2022. there's currently over 700 2022boats for sale from all brands on onlyinboards which tells me that no one is a sellout for '22 at the manufacturer level(pockets of dealers are out, I know this) but as the market moves into '22 having unsold build slots will push dealers into deals which then starts to deflate the used market.
you are correct I think that it'll take a year for it to all sort out.
said it before but would love to have access to the data Ian has on onlyinboards as it relates to days on market and listings by brand/year. TONS of data there that speaks to the overall health of the wakeboat market.

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Originally Posted by sandm

will be interesting to see how the market is in mid2022. there's currently over 700 2022boats for sale from all brands on onlyinboards which tells me that no one is a sellout for '22 at the manufacturer level(pockets of dealers are out, I know this) but as the market moves into '22 having unsold build slots will push dealers into deals which then starts to deflate the used market.
you are correct I think that it'll take a year for it to all sort out.
said it before but would love to have access to the data Ian has on onlyinboards as it relates to days on market and listings by brand/year. TONS of data there that speaks to the overall health of the wakeboat market.

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This high inflation will kick the boat markets a$$, it will curb stomp disposable income.

I have no doubt the boat market will stall soon, but I don’t ever see new MSRP’s dropping or discounts getting to 30-40% off MSRP.


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Originally Posted by larry_arizona

This high inflation will kick the boat markets a$$, it will curb stomp disposable income.

I have no doubt the boat market will stall soon, but I don’t ever see new MSRP’s dropping or discounts getting to 30-40% off MSRP.

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not sure about that. our last tige we bought in 2020 had an msrp of 112k and we paid 82. we all know that both tige and dealer made a buck. that's 27% off and it was at the start of this frenzy. the discounts have pushed in the 20%+ on a lot of lines pre covid and I suspect we will see 30% in 2023 OR you will see a reduction in staffing and total boats built by year will shrink. likely some brand consolidations or manuf. thinning out the available models. they may not drop msrp's but they can kill off the SA and replace with the SA2 with an msrp lower and a few less costly "standard" features.
tige killed off the z3 and created the r23. same hull. same engine. same tower. same layout. less costly vinyl and a few missing options at a cheaper msrp. others have done similar.

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Originally Posted by sandm

not sure about that. our last tige we bought in 2020 had an msrp of 112k and we paid 82. we all know that both tige and dealer made a buck. that's 27% off and it was at the start of this frenzy. the discounts have pushed in the 20%+ on a lot of lines pre covid and I suspect we will see 30% in 2023 OR you will see a reduction in staffing and total boats built by year will shrink. likely some brand consolidations or manuf. thinning out the available models. they may not drop msrp's but they can kill off the SA and replace with the SA2 with an msrp lower and a few less costly "standard" features.
tige killed off the z3 and created the r23. same hull. same engine. same tower. same layout. less costly vinyl and a few missing options at a cheaper msrp. others have done similar.

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Skiers Choice already has a budget level SA, it is called the Max or Mojo. I really don't see Supra killing off any model except maybe the SR, especially not the flagship SA. Back when Tige did that with the Z3, they didn't really offer a budget line, kinda like Malibu came out with the V-Ride for entry level. Skiers entry level that keeps adding value is Moomba, that is by design to keep their premium line more exclusive.

I do agree we will start seeing bigger discounts off MSRP as compared to last year, used market stays red hot.

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Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

Skiers Choice already has a budget level SA, it is called the Max or Mojo. I really don't see Supra killing off any model except maybe the SR, especially not the flagship SA. Back when Tige did that with the Z3, they didn't really offer a budget line, kinda like Malibu came out with the V-Ride for entry level. Skiers entry level that keeps adding value is Moomba, that is by design to keep their premium line more exclusive.

I do agree we will start seeing bigger discounts off MSRP as compared to last year, used market stays red hot.

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agreed but was only pointing out that a manuf. doesn't have to go backwards on msrp but rather kill off a model and replace with a like that cost less. I bet back 12 years ago we all would have said supra will never kill off the launch22ssv as that was the meat of sales and look where we are today. back in the late 00's the sante220/230 were the crown jewels. it's the g today but who knows where it will be in another 5 years. x-star was the ruler and now it's barely a blip on mc's radar for sales. supra will move on at some point when the market dictates pricing is out of reach. whether they call it the SA or some other new name, evolving and rebranding has kept them at the top of the game and hope they don't get complacent.

Yeah, they start up new models going forward, not backward. The next versions will be even better and more expensive. Lol.

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Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

Yeah, they start up new models going forward, not backward. The next versions will be even better and more expensive. Lol.

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I think that's his point is that they won't.
They are likely to be more budget friendly options rather than fancier and more expensive.
We're seeing nice boats getting up to and well above 1/4 million dollars at this point, all of which has happened in the last 10 years.

I don't see the average income increasing nearly as fast as the price of wake boats, so in my eyes at some point they are all going to price themselves out. The ONLY reason they haven't already is because as prices increased banks followed suit and allowed longer and longer loans.

Realistically the only reason 90% of "owners" afford a wake boat at all these days is the fact that you can finance it for so damn long. But it's already 20 year financing, I don't see how anyone could justify going to 30 but who knows I said the same thing about 15yr financing on toys.

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Originally Posted by SONIC

I think that's his point is that they won't.
They are likely to be more budget friendly options rather than fancier and more expensive.
We're seeing nice boats getting up to and well above 1/4 million dollars at this point, all of which has happened in the last 10 years.

I don't see the average income increasing nearly as fast as the price of wake boats, so in my eyes at some point they are all going to price themselves out. The ONLY reason they haven't already is because as prices increased banks followed suit and allowed longer and longer loans.

Realistically the only reason 90% of "owners" afford a wake boat at all these days is the fact that you can finance it for so damn long. But it's already 20 year financing, I don't see how anyone could justify going to 30 but who knows I said the same thing about 15yr financing on toys.

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Exactly!!

I feel for ANYONE that took out a low/no down 20 year note on a boat in 2021 or 2022. in a couple years my crystal ball says they are going to be upside down for half that note. some will choose to walk as the novelty of boating wears off or gas hits higher prices regularly. that will start the spiral along with feds pushing up interest rates.

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Originally Posted by sandm

Exactly!!

I feel for ANYONE that took out a low/no down 20 year note on a boat in 2021 or 2022. in a couple years my crystal ball says they are going to be upside down for half that note. some will choose to walk as the novelty of boating wears off or gas hits higher prices regularly. that will start the spiral along with feds pushing up interest rates.

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I don't feel for them honestly. Call me an asshole but I have a big pet peeve about people making stupid financial decisions and then wanting people to feel sorry for them. You make your bed you sleep in it IMO.

For me if you can't buy the boat with cash you shouldn't have it. Doesn't mean you shouldn't finance it because that's just smart money use depending on the rates, but if the note comes due tomorrow and you can't pay it and still feed your family you shouldn't have it.
That's just how I handle my finances I know everyone is different.

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Originally Posted by larry_arizona

I can tell you there is currently zero depreciation on a 2021 so far, perhaps equity versus price paid at this point

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Agree. I know people that trade every year. One made money on his 21. Mostly b/c they get a smoking deal each year and the price increases on 22s.

The world is FULL of people that finance themselves to the point of being upside-down. Of course loan companies shouldn't allow it and deny them loans, but instead they just throw really high interest rate on them and let em' have it. Which actually makes it worse for the payee! Still, people do it all the time.

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I prefer to let people do what makes them happy, I'll do what makes me happy, that's how to win at life. Could care less what others do with their finances. If they can't afford to pay cash and choose to finance, great. If they pay cash, great as well. I'm not sure why people get so caught up in what others do. You get 1 chance at life, live it your way.

And Supra isn't going to build a budget boat, just not going to happen. That's why Skiers has Moomba. They'll quit increasing prices year over year as much and offer discounts. Plenty of people are still buying and according to my dealer, a high percentage aren't financing. All things being equal, these boats aren't that expensive. Take a look at all the off shore boats, cruisers and everything else out there, plenty of money out there.

Boats are just like cars. You have utilitarian type boats some people use to make a living, cheap fishing, cheap fun seeking, mid level price, high priced, and damn near insane priced. Just like cars&trucks. Work trucks and Low priced kias all the way up to Lamborghini and Ferrari. Just pick your level use and luxury.

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To get back to the actual question and not focused on who is the smartest in the room about finances….the 22 has a warranty which is a really nice safety blanket and you save $20k. Add some ballast bags and enjoy a wonderful boat while saving some money. You also get to build it the exact way you want it. The g would be second choice because 17 should be solid and most kinks worked out. Only risk in my mind would be electronic stuff assuming the motor was maintained properly. The mastercraft comes in third imo. But that is for sure debatable.


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Originally Posted by russellsmojo

To get back to the actual question and not focused on who is the smartest in the room about finances….the 22 has a warranty which is a really nice safety blanket and you save $20k. Add some ballast bags and enjoy a wonderful boat while saving some money. You also get to build it the exact way you want it. The g would be second choice because 17 should be solid and most kinks worked out. Only risk in my mind would be electronic stuff assuming the motor was maintained properly. The mastercraft comes in third imo. But that is for sure debatable.


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I agree with that order too.

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Originally Posted by Homer2022

Hey guys, thanks SO much for the replies, makes a lot of sense. I'm going to move forward with the Mojo!

One more question, I don't think it comes with the surf exhaust, is this a must have?

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Definitely at the surf exhaust to the build. I didn’t and regretted it. Just installed an FAE myself. It was a pain In the ass, and in the end cost me the same price to just add it to the build. What I can’t get over is how much quieter the boat is. It was. MAJOR difference. I will never own another boat without it for that reason alone.


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Originally Posted by HFarr

I agree with that order too.

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