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I have a deposit down with a dealer. The original deposit was for another used boat that we decided was not for us. We moved the deposit for a build spot on a new Kaiyen. We sent the build from the web site on Sunday and it's been crickets all week...We really like Moomba but I'm not impressed with the dealer I am working with. Does Moomba have strict territories or I can buy elsewhere? Is there any negotiating from list price?
I think tomorrow I am going to bail and shop other brands.
They do have territories which I think is somewhat crap...impedes competition.
How close is another dealer? For me I was somewhat halfway between two dealers and so I got quotes from both. Thankfully I did because one dealer was significantly lower in price. I wanted to buy from the other dealer so used the lower pricing as leverage. In the end it worked out..
There are ways around territories..
Moomba does have dealer territory when ordering, but if you buy an inventory boat there is freedom.
MSRP is absolutely negotiable, 6-8% is typical, plus Moomba is offering a 7 year powertrain warranty currently.
It’s a quirky time to buy as boat market is red hot.
Where are you located?
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Not to excuse the dealer but most spring slots are full so it's not likely that you need to immediately finalize your selections and options.
Doing a build is not buying a honda civic. If you REALLY want a Kayien save the tantrum.
#FirstWorldProblems
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I certainly feel you on being annoyed however the only question I have is did you follow up with said dealer? The only reason I ask is that I know how busy my dealer is, he has so many sales taking place complete with emails we had a few email misses in our back and forths. I did not hold this against him as I know how insane things have gotten since COVID hit and he is run ragged, heck I miss more than my share of emails at work when I am swamped. That being said since you have a deposit in and you must have liked the boat or you wouldn't put a deposit down I would check in on them, you never know maybe your build email was lost in the ether or if you build slot is a long ways out there is no real rush as you will likely modify your build a bunch before you need to finalize your build.
You may be right about what you say, I agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by RC_Hinojosa
Don't hold the interweb or email against your dealer. Not returning phone messages is a little different. You need to go into the dealer and speak to them. If you have your order ready, you can go through all the details in person, discuss exact dates, check the boxes, and sign appropriate paper work. Building from the Web Site is for customers. Separate process for the dealer to get that order into the SC system for manufacturing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 185BR
Plus, the dealer should be helping you along the way: "you need to select this prop if your primary use will be wake boarding" or "if you plan on surfing and will add more weight, then it's best to select this prop"
Per your impression on the dealer, talk to some people that have purchased boats from the dealer. New boats from ANY boat dealer or ANY boat maker will need warranty work sometime. If you get a bad experience down the road, you will be second guessing yourself about "I knew this would happen . . . . blah, blah . . . I'm never buying again" Or your boat is out of commission for weeks and weeks during the summer months.
It's pretty easy to get on social media and find boat owners to speak to. Go to the Supra Moomba Facebook page.
There are some great dealers out there (like ours in Knoxville), other that probably need some work.
There are some with great communication skills, others that probably need some work.
For new buyers, hard to compare buying Boats and Cars. The process has always been different and will continue to be different in the future.
Good luck
I just went through shopping this fall and the dealers I delt with were all communicative ( emails answered within a day or two). Buying this type of boat is exciting and emotional so I hear you.
One of the reasons I ordered my Mondo was the dealer which I like a lot. Perhaps your email went to junk... I would call them and ask. If you don't feel the warmths and fuzzies by then, don't buy there because this is the service you will be getting later.
Also, the price is always negotiable. We didn't get a discount we felt we would've gotten 2-3 years ago, but there's got to be some love. If there isn't, move on.
Good luck �� and I hope to see some Moomba pics posted from you in the spring ��.
Assume no boat territory. Two Moomba boat owners have the same issue with a boat starter that needs to be replaced under warranty.
Boat Owner A purchased the new boat from that dealer and has a relationship with the dealer.
Boat Owner B purchased the new boat from a different state and different dealer and does not have a relationship with the dealer.
Who's boat will be worked on first?
Now assume that same dealer sells 20 or 30 or 40 Supra and Moomba boats per year and has a loyal customer base in the SC line.
That same dealer also sells other lines of boats like pontoons or jets.
Any change on who's boat gets worked on first?
All great points...I reached out on Monday with the sales person via text and he confirmed that they received my build from Moomba, he also said he was going to let the bossman know so he could work up numbers. Our lakehouse is actually closer to another dealer but the wrong direction so we thought the dealer closer to home might be easier for service. They mentioned that they have an April build slot for another boat that can be changed to a Kaiyen for a May-ish delivery. (True?)
Another thought is that they will not negotiate at all off the MSRP and if we keep getting stalled there will be no options left from other dealer/boats. I get the who will get service first argument but it's not worth it to me overpaying by 10K... I will follow up again today but it just feels wrong when your dropping over a 100K.
might want to check on that. we have been told over and over that there is no freedom until the next model year is released in june/july then all bets are off. that is all dependent on the integrity of the dealer you are calling tho... our boat came from 1500 miles away and salesman had to go check with boss before they would authorize the sale to confirm we were actually "x" miles away from nearest dealer to confirm we didn't have a "local".Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
personally, I get that boat businesses are booming BUT there is absolutely no excuse or reason to not be communicating with buyers or leads other than pure laziness. salesmen are used to seeing "x" leads a week and it's tripled. they know boats will sell and people will follow up with them so no reason to.
we shopped 5 dealerships while figuring out our next whip. only 2 ever followed up with us after the visit. not tough to send a quick call/text/email but they don't have to.
I would look elsewhere at other dealers and/or other brands if you are being asked to pay msrp. moomba discounts are not huge but typically in the 5-9% range seems be where most land and right now I would expect in the 5% range for a build and a tad higher if on the lot. it's what we expected when the dealers built out pricing out.
If both are respectable, competent and customer focused dealers it shouldn’t matter... The dealer who didn’t sell the boat is presented with an opportunity to win a new customer for their next purchase. Plus, dealers are not doing repairs (warranty or not) for free! Revenue is revenue- (new sales, service and warranty work).Quote:
Originally Posted by MJHSupra
We closed on our new boat earlier this week- last week I emailed my dealer rep and he called me within 2 minutes! Same as when we built the boat and finalized everything- they responded almost immediately...Why? Because they are a competent dealer.
Everyone keeps making excuses for crap dealers...
Correct. I thought if the dealer has a boat in stock, they can work with another dealer to transfer that boat to be sold out of the new dealer. Since the new dealer would be responsible for the warranty work.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm
I'm betting this happened more when boat dealers had boats in stock at the end of the year (end of summer months around the time of new model release) and the original dealer did not want to risk holding that boat all winter.
I would assume both dealers would want to make something on the deal, but maybe the original dealer just wants to cover costs and move the boat off the lot.
Our 2012 was transferred in and dealer that had boat stated they could not sell to us until end of july due to agreements. It had to be a dealer transfer. Once 2013s shipped end of july and 12s are "1 model year old" then alls fair game. Tige, skiers and mb all told us same story in 12 and 20 when we shopped new. Supreme in 20 didnt care.
We did have to pay a grand in "transfer fees" to the dealer that had the boat but our dealer ate half and since we had a trade it all worked out but sure there are some that have good relationships with others and transfer regularly.
I understand there is a certain level of customer service expected when dropping $100k on a boat, but $100k isn’t what it used to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by 185BR
Not shocked dealers are stuck at MSRP pricing, just keep in mind the pandemic has driven boat sales up 355%.
This is not a buyers market.
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As a matter of principle I rather wait to buy a boat then pay MSRP..(guess I am too stubborn and this market won’t last much longer). We got a very good deal on our 21 Moomba...in fact I’ve yet to see a used ‘19 or ‘20 priced lower than what we paid by ordering new..
At a minimum perhaps they can waive the freight and setup..
I would struggle pulling the trigger on a full MSRP boat only due to future resale.
The key to getting out of a boat is not overpaying for it.
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to a certain degree yes, but there are deals out there. just have to search.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
we scored 28% off our boat in july last year at the height of the insanity(sure you're pretty close or over that as well) but it was 1500 miles away. closer dealer was only discounting 10-ish%.
I'm with both you and brad tho that paying msrp you'll be upside down for years and years.
Likewise ^^^^
We shopped for well over 6 months. We found a Great boat for a decent price and negotiated the price down a bit as well. However, it was 1600 miles away in Texas.
Boat is a 17 SA 400
Dealer here has a 15 SC for more than what we purchased ours.
Definitely a tough market for buyers. But patient pays off.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
The issue of course is that the boating market as well as the economy are both cyclical in nature. Those dealers who choose to squeeze every last egg out of the golden goose while simultaneously treating it like crap, will have a hard time when geese aren't as easy to come by.
Not offering a token discount in an effort to build a long term relationship on a product that families spend a lifetime of work to acquire is douchebaggery. There's an absolute crap load of margin built in to these boats without taking into account margin heavy dealer prep fees and doc fees. If only there was some sort of information super highway where people could openly chat about which dealers are interested in long term relationships and which aren't.
I agree that dealers should be giving the typical MSRP discounts and building customer relationships.
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I mean being honest. Let’s say the economy tanks. Dealers inventory builds up. You go to buy a new Supra and they offer 30% off to move a unit. Would you say no and say only take 10% off because you just want the normal discount.
The pricing thing is working just the way it is supposed to imo. Ford raptors were selling over sticker price at one point. Heck the new Cadillac Escalade is over sticker price in some cases. Supply and demand from middle school. Kids used to do supply and demand business with atomic fireballs on the playground.
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I totally agree with Russell....I wanted to get a Telluride for my wife and they are selling for over sticker (if you can find one).Quote:
Originally Posted by russellsmojo
For a fucking Kia....let that sink in.
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I get the whole supply and demand and I am well versed in economics.
But I will say.......I will never buy anything with ADM. No vehicle is worth that, especially a Kia lol.
I would do some more research on the telluride/palisade, outstanding on the surface, but an absolute shitshow in the real world.
I know 3 friends who bought them and deeply regret it. 2 of the 3 got rid of them already and the 3rd is ready too.
I would actually never pay MSRP for anything major.
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I got a buddy that works for Hyundai/Kia finance which is one of the reasons we were entertaining the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
We're just gonna wait for the '22 Expedition to drop, it'll have a facelift and the new F150 interior...plus the capability to tow the boat.
Here's ADM:
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Agree Larry I’m never paying msrp or really even close imo. But don’t want to declare good or bad dealer over the pricing in a high demand market.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
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all good stuff but......
going back to '06 I bought a mitsu evo9. the dealer in boise had it priced at msrp(29k) plus 7.5k markup totaling 36.5k and taxes/fees on top. south coast mitsu in cali was the largest evo dealer in the nation and offered same car for(and don't ask me why I remember this) 27,988 otd only tax extra. those cars only had a couple options so it was apples. gave dealer in boise a chance and they told me to have a nice flight so I did and came home with a new one a month later.
as russell points out supply and demand is likely working the way it should as dealer in boise sold the car 5 months later just after I was in for first oil change. I was with 2 others picking up same car in cali that day. so economics 101 was good.
except in that case I was free to fly to cali to buy the car. had it been a supra boat, I would have been screwed to drive to cali to buy a new build boat as dealer wouldn't be able to sell it.
last I checked economy 101 wasn't predicated on dealer "territories".
neighbor behind me just took delivery on a new 2021 corvette. he flew to bowling green and took delivery at the vette museum and then had it shipped out. all of that was still cheaper than the local dealer that is offering 8k over msrp on any new vette.
my take is IF you are going to mandate dealer territories then you should also mandate MAP pricing like bose. to let dealers make up their own pricing based on profit margins needed but then tell customers you can ONLY shop from that dealer can set a sour taste in some mouths.
and rc, our ford dealer I pass by every day has 5 gt500's and 1 gt350 sitting in the front of the building all with markups. interestingly the blue one is only marked up a few grand but the lime green one has the same markup above. it's just over 130k.
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Corvette museum delivery is technically just a museum pass and they drive your car across the street and park it inside the museum and put some velvet ropes around it. I think you get a sticker and a wall plaque too. All for $995.
You may even get a small box of toothpicks.
Then they ship your car as normal to the selling dealer.
All said, the corvette museum is largely unimpressive other than when the giant sink hole formed under it and collapsed taking a few corvettes underground.
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That was Blue Devil in that hole....the very first new gen ZR1 [emoji24]Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
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That ZR1 was largely ok, all the wrecked cars are on display.
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Sandm very valid point on territories changing supply and demand dynamic. I am glass always full on the good dealer topic because the fellas at slalom shop has always been awesome. I know other areas are not so lucky.
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this was his second delivery there and 3rd vette overall. it was still quite a bit cheaper to do that vs paying to buy locally and delivery was to his driveway. he bought from kerbeck. told me that findlay chevy in vegas is allocated 40 vettes for 2021. kerbeck is allocated 950.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
he paid full msrp of 88k but NO markups and NO dealer add on's.
it'll go well with the rivian he is expecting in september. he was one of the first 100 to put a deposit on one 2 or 3 years ago. he selected interior and exterior colors 2 months ago and said delivery was slated for august but he thinks it'll be mid september.
ya I'm just a cheap ass when it comes to a few things and if I can figure out how to save a buck I'm going to. the dealer network for boats is a very frustrating and NON consumer friendly model if you ask me. manufacturers should not dictate nor control products in a free market economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by russellsmojo
I completely understand the need to support local dealers so you have support there BUT should it come at the price of getting "forced" to bend over and grab your ankles while purchasing.
Ahhh - the COVID effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm
On social media, you can almost hear the frustration with some people when they ask these questions and people are telling them about the deals they got last year and the year before.
Another factor is the volume of boats. Small dealer with lower number of boats will need to make the margins and does not have add'l inventory to make up a smaller margin number.
I completely understand where you and coming from, but not entirely apples to apples. The Ford Raptor and some of the other auto examples mentioned were selling for ADM at EVERY dealer in the nation (for the most part). I was offered 9% off the Mojo I was going to order and I think the vast amount of clients right now are getting above 5%. I get the dealer can do whatever they want vis a vis the laws of supply and demand, but they are clearly not interested in establishing a long term relationship. It’s the risk they take, and it could potentially bite them in the butt.Quote:
Originally Posted by russellsmojo
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJHSupra
totally agree and that smaller dealer should then likely have superior customer service to keep you as a customer. if the supplier(skiers) tho are going to have dealer territories in place, there is ZERO reason for a dealer to work to earn your business tho. they know if you want a supra/moomba they are the only game in town.
I would bet that's likely playing into a lot of the frustrations that people voice about no return call or followup. they don't have to.
[emoji1426] This is on point. In Texas we have Supra/Moomba dealers in Houston, Austin & Dallas but many other states are not as fortunate.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm
For the folks that don't have dealers in their state, they are kinda at the mercy of the dealer they are working with. Shitty situation for sure....
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I am lucky that my local dealer plays nicely, although my salesman recently left.
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All of your points are excellent... I texted the salesperson on Monday, and he verified that they had gotten my construct from Moomba, as well as stating that he would inform the bossman so that he could work up figures. Our lakehouse is really closer to another dealer, but in the opposite direction, so we figured the closer dealer would be easier to service. They indicated that they had an April build slot available for another boat, which might be converted to a Kaiyen for a May-ish delivery.
cookie clicker
Why are post 10 and post 39 pretty much the same post, but from 2 different accounts?