Now its getting crazy!!

OK, so Supreme should be considered in same market as Moomba, IMO. How does this boat get to the >130K .

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2021-Su...as-119722.aspx

Is this the trend?. That is close to what I paid for my SL! Supreme is supposed to be an entry level. These boats were the answer for those who did not want to go to the six figure and yet still wanted a decent surf boat, albeit still expensive by any measure, but not exorbitant. If this is where this is going, this will really narrow the market to an ever shrinking few.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isaguel

OK, so Supreme should be considered in same market as Moomba, IMO. How does this boat get to the >130K .

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2021-Su...as-119722.aspx

Is this the trend?. That is close to what I paid for my SL! Supreme is supposed to be an entry level. These boats were the answer for those who did not want to go to the six figure and yet still wanted a decent surf boat, albeit still expensive by any measure, but not exorbitant. If this is where this is going, this will really narrow the market to an ever shrinking few.

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The yearly price increase is aggressive, your SL now is a $170k+ MSRP.

The Zeus boats are meh for $130k


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The price of wakeboard boats have increased far more than anything I’ve ever seen..to the point it’s ridiculous. Goes hand in hand with folks on here telling others to just go with the new/latest/better boat- it’s only $8000 more. That’s apparently the same attitude the boat manufacturers have...its only 8k..30k..50k more..Here is a picture of a Mobius at the boat show in (2012?) it was only $44k! If we ever get into a 2008-09 type recession we may see some manufacturers go under.

Attachment 29252

I got into a discussion with someone else on a tige forum on this same topic and politely reminded me that it's marketing 101 supply and demand. and we're all paying it.....

we almost traded our old boat in '14 on a supra sc in WI and pretty much fully loaded it was going to be in the 70's. today sa decked out is what.. 130?
I get all the tech they have but in some instances the tech is a wash in both builder supply pricing and ease of assembly compared to what it was replacing......
back in '06 bought a sportbike for 6500 cash. same bike today is running 12-13k. by that logic i should be able to replace my old supra launch20 with a SR in the 80's but last time I checked it's north of 120 once optioned.

I hate to say it and don't wish it... but a market correction really needs to put pricing back into check. it really has gotten silly. it's like boats are made of bitcoins......

When is the last time boat prices dropped?

I mean new price MSRP drop?

My point is they never go down.


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And I get it, there should be a yearly increase partly based on tech and partly on inflation, but man, I bought my Mojo NEW in 2015 for 69K. It is evident wakeboat price increases have grossly outstripped income growth. That, in long term, cannot possibly be sustainable. I fear a correction will be forthcoming and it is going to catch those who are paying these stratospheric prices with their pants down. Seeing how much an SL is going for now, I feel like I got a bargain. I offered my brother in law my Mojo for 55k in April when I took delivery of the SL, he turned it down, he is now on the market and looking, after seeing these prices, he tells me he should of bought it. Well, no S***.

I had a Supreme quote that listed MSRP and selling price. It was about 20% less. I think they really artificially inflate the prices to create the illusion of a good deal.

I bet this sells for 106K plus another grand or two in fees.

My stocks/investments have increased more than boats % in the last 4 years...just thinking out loud...

Boats are no worse than trucks or campers or anything for that matter. As fast as things seem to be selling right now, especially anything outdoor related I doubt we see a ceiling very soon on pricing.

Posting the list price of $133k for a Supreme is one thing, selling one at that price is different.

My theory is the OEM’s understand most buy boats with long term loans that make it difficult to pay down principal owed.

To combat that, OEM’s keep bumping prices 5-7% per year to keep the used market prices up. By doing so, it helps sell used boats which in turn creates new boat sales.

All said, this is likely my last new boat purchase, not too far from retirement and boating will not be on my 10 year forecast.

Six figure boats are the norm now, put a 2 in front of that six figure and I am tapped out personally.


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I agree.
For fun I looked up Malibu's P&L info (public company so easy to get)
Their gross profit for fiscal 2020 was $150,000,000
Boats sold was 6444
Making profit per boat $23,277
Average boat sale price was $101,360 which puts their average profit margin at 23%


Comparing to 2015 Data:
31,846,000 in profit
3404 boats
67162 average cost per boat

That puts profit per boat at $9355
And profit margin at 14%


So over 5 years their average boat cost has gone up 151% and their profit per boat has more than doubled while their volume has also doubled.

What this tells me is:
It's good to be in the boat business lol

I went into this expecting that the profit margin would have stayed about the same which would mean that the cost increase on the boats has been mostly from cost increase incurred by the manufacturers. Seems that's not fully the case.

March/April/May 2020 that stock hovered in the $30s with the COVID fears on the luxury good market. Got to a low of $18.xx at one time.
Now it's high in the high $60s

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SONIC

I agree.
For fun I looked up Malibu's P&L info (public company so easy to get)
Their gross profit for fiscal 2020 was $150,000,000
Boats sold was 6444
Making profit per boat $23,277
Average boat sale price was $101,360 which puts their average profit margin at 23%


Comparing to 2015 Data:
31,846,000 in profit
3404 boats
67162 average cost per boat

That puts profit per boat at $9355
And profit margin at 14%


So over 5 years their average boat cost has gone up 151% and their profit per boat has more than doubled while their volume has also doubled.

What this tells me is:
It's good to be in the boat business lol

I went into this expecting that the profit margin would have stayed about the same which would mean that the cost increase on the boats has been mostly from cost increase incurred by the manufacturers. Seems that's not fully the case.

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How does that breakup then when considering profit. I have heard dealers make over 20-25% profit(markup) on each boat. So Bu's avg sale/boat must no include dealer profit. So the avg sale price /boat at the consumer level must be another 20% above that, so around 121k. Right?

The good news for future new boat buyers is that I just purchased my first brand new boat (spring delivery).

That virtually assures that new boat values will plummet precipitously in the next year or two.

You're welcome.

Market correction is coming.... thats for sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guppydriver

That virtually assures that new boat values will plummet precipitously in the next year or two.

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Ha ha . I think we are all good for 2021 with some of the major boats makers selling out all 2021 build slots.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SONIC

I agree.
For fun I looked up Malibu's P&L info (public company so easy to get)
Their gross profit for fiscal 2020 was $150,000,000
Boats sold was 6444
Making profit per boat $23,277
Average boat sale price was $101,360 which puts their average profit margin at 23%


Comparing to 2015 Data:
31,846,000 in profit
3404 boats
67162 average cost per boat

That puts profit per boat at $9355
And profit margin at 14%


So over 5 years their average boat cost has gone up 151% and their profit per boat has more than doubled while their volume has also doubled.

What this tells me is:
It's good to be in the boat business lol

I went into this expecting that the profit margin would have stayed about the same which would mean that the cost increase on the boats has been mostly from cost increase incurred by the manufacturers. Seems that's not fully the case.

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I assume this includes Axis as well?? I can't' think of one Malibu you can buy $101.630K, no way this is the median or I'm the world's worst negotiator. I think the T23 I had quoted for me was almost 6 digits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dank

Market correction is coming.... thats for sure.

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I think you are right Dank. I think the used market might be soon saturated with lightly used quality boats. I just think a lot of people spent their 10K they normally use for annual and semi annual vacations on down payments without really knowing if "the boat thing" is for them.

Eventually, they are going to realize that the cost and care of running, storing and maintaining the boat exceeds what they had anticipated. Plus, the payments get a little harder to swallow when there is snow on the ground and the boat is taking up your garage space or storage unit.

I know I will probably take a good beating by ordering a new boat this year, but the cost and availability of quality used boats out there this year made the cost delta marginal between the two. All the meticulous, lightly used premium brands in my area were north of 120K. It would have made financial sense for me to hold off and wait for a market adjustment , but my family has a only a few years left all together under the same roof and not missing the memories we will create in the next year or two helps to offset any loss to market adjustment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guppydriver

I assume this includes Axis as well?? I can't' think of one Malibu you can buy $101.630K, no way this is the median or I'm the world's worst negotiator. I think the T23 I had quoted for me was almost 6 digits.

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I think this average sale price dealer cost, not the average price the consumer paid for a Malibu boat in 20202. Correct me if I am wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guppydriver

I think you are right Dank. I think the used market might be soon saturated with lightly used quality boats. I just think a lot of people spent their 10K they normally use for annual and semi annual vacations on down payments without really knowing if "the boat thing" is for them.

Eventually, they are going to realize that the cost and care of running, storing and maintaining the boat exceeds what they had anticipated. Plus, the payments get a little harder to swallow when there is snow on the ground and the boat is taking up your garage space or storage unit.

I know I will probably take a good beating by ordering a new boat this year, but the cost and availability of quality used boats out there this year made the cost delta marginal between the two. All the meticulous, lightly used premium brands in my area were north of 120K. It would have made financial sense for me to hold off and wait for a market adjustment , but my family has a only a few years left all together under the same roof and not missing the memories we will create in the next year or two helps to offset any loss to market adjustment.

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We are in the same boat. Our current boat is a I/O that is 16 years old. We missed the window before COVID but my kids are only getting older so I either bite the bullet now and get a new boat or wait a couple years and get one but miss out on memories with the kids. I only have 3 more summers with my oldest. The used market now is garbage so we are going new. Got a moomba max with a build date in March. We were looking used at first but that market is toast now.

I don’t see the new market MSRP’s being corrected ever. Skiers sells out every year.

The market has proven the 200k-300k ceilings have been sustainable so anything under 200k is a bargain.

Master craft and Nautique sell more than SC yearly at significantly higher MSRP’s.

Entry level boats are now near 6 figures and still selling even before the pandemic rush.

The used market will get an adjustment just based on supply and demand in the next few years, but it will likely be a 1-2 year dump for those who didn’t like the experience. But it’s not like prices are going to be $25k less, maybe $5k-$10k less.

It’s still a growing sport, market saturation has not occurred yet even with a 355% increase in boat sales.

I am out in the next 5 years, but at the current pace of boat pricing, I would not be buying a Supra in 2026, they would officially be out of my price range and I would shopping Moomba.

Not sure how much more significant tech upgrades or hull designs are coming in the future.


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I echo the sentiments of those who point out the value of memories. My daughter will be out in another 2 years, my 12 y/o son is loving watersports, he is getting his 360's every time we go out. The pictures, memories , the stories are invaluable to me, no matter what the market correction does.
Additionally, one must consider these are not short term purchases. I plan to keep my boat for at least another 6-7 years. Market corrections are cyclical. If there is a correction in next 2-3 years, by the time I'm ready to upgrade it'll likely be on the upswing again. It only hurt those who are getting out of the sport.
IMO the most important thing is to buy within your means. If you do your boat will never be a burden, regardless of what the market does.
When we built our house in '06, a financial manager friend of ours recommended we buy the biggest house we could afford. "House prices will never come down", its yearly return, 10-15%, was better than any investment, blah, blah blah. We looked at >$800k houses. I felt somewhat uneasy about the whole idea. We did not risk it, instead we built a house that fell comfortably within our budget. The same year we closed the market collapsed. I have never lost one night of sleep over it, why? because it was not a investment, it was long term, it was our home. I eventually heard he lost one of his high end homes. Point is, if you buy a boat today, most likely its a long term purchase, the market may correct but it'll adjust back up, don't worry, just follow one simple principle, if the payment ever keeps you up at night, stop, reassess and adjust down until you feel at ease with it. And then enjoy all the awesome memories.

We will probably never buy again. Now that we moved near Table Rock Lake, we may join a boat club. It would be interesting to see what boats are available.



Branson Boat Club – Boat more, Work less!
http://bransonboatclub.com/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zabooda

We will probably never buy again. Now that we moved near Table Rock Lake, we may join a boat club. It would be interesting to see what boats are available.



Branson Boat Club – Boat more, Work less!
http://bransonboatclub.com/

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Wouldn’t it be a constant battle to get a club boat to produce a good wake? Different boat every time?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ae74_tx

We are in the same boat. Our current boat is a I/O that is 16 years old. We missed the window before COVID but my kids are only getting older so I either bite the bullet now and get a new boat or wait a couple years and get one but miss out on memories with the kids. I only have 3 more summers with my oldest. The used market now is garbage so we are going new. Got a moomba max with a build date in March. We were looking used at first but that market is toast now.

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You totally did the right thing... the Max is a freaking awesome boat. You'll be looking at years of problem free boating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guppydriver

I think you are right Dank. I think the used market might be soon saturated with lightly used quality boats. I just think a lot of people spent their 10K they normally use for annual and semi annual vacations on down payments without really knowing if "the boat thing" is for them.

Eventually, they are going to realize that the cost and care of running, storing and maintaining the boat exceeds what they had anticipated. Plus, the payments get a little harder to swallow when there is snow on the ground and the boat is taking up your garage space or storage unit.

I know I will probably take a good beating by ordering a new boat this year, but the cost and availability of quality used boats out there this year made the cost delta marginal between the two. All the meticulous, lightly used premium brands in my area were north of 120K. It would have made financial sense for me to hold off and wait for a market adjustment , but my family has a only a few years left all together under the same roof and not missing the memories we will create in the next year or two helps to offset any loss to market adjustment.

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totally agree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dank

Market correction is coming.... thats for sure.

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I’ve been on the fence about a new (or used) boat for a couple of years and I’ve heard this sentiment often, so I’ve waited.

Well, even during a pandemic nothing has “corrected” and my window with the kids is closing, so I’m pulling the trigger.

There may be a correction, but it would be 10-15% which I can live with. My dealer was telling me the investment banker they (and some of the OEMs) use for forecasting is pointing to 2023 at the earliest for a slow down (which doesn’t necessarily mean correction). BTW he’s sold all of his Supra and Moomba slots for 2021.

I agree with OP, buy what you can afford today so you don’t freak out or panic about what happens tomorrow.


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With some brands sold out or very limited stock at best, spring time will kick in the used market again, although stock will be limited as sellers will only be those getting out of the sport.


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With the number of new and used boats being bought, I have real concerns about lake traffic. Last year was the worst I’d seen on two lakes.

So far out west, snow fall is well below average. Our lakes were already in bad shape, and if we don’t get sizable snowfall in the next 3 months, launching past July 4th won’t happen as the lakes will be too low.

If that happens, you’ll see a flood of boats hit the used market July-October 2021. If winter pans out and give enough snowpack to keep the lakes full, I can see summer being aquatic mayhem.

Lakes were busy last year already with the new surge


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ae74_tx

We are in the same boat. Our current boat is a I/O that is 16 years old. We missed the window before COVID but my kids are only getting older so I either bite the bullet now and get a new boat or wait a couple years and get one but miss out on memories with the kids. I only have 3 more summers with my oldest. The used market now is garbage so we are going new. Got a moomba max with a build date in March. We were looking used at first but that market is toast now.

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We also ordered a 21 Moomba Max- I noticed the used 2019 and 2020 Max’s (in most cases) were selling for more than we paid for ours (spec-ed exactly how I wanted it)...

Why in the would someone pay more for a used boat than a brand new boat?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brad460

We also ordered a 21 Moomba Max- I noticed the used 2019 and 2020 Max’s (in most cases) were selling for more than we paid for ours (spec-ed exactly how I wanted it)...

Why in the would someone pay more for a used boat than a brand new boat?!

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Same deal here.... though a little less than we couldn’t justify buying a used one that was “kind of what I wanted”

Wow, lots of new Moomba orders. Awesome. Should be a pretty active forum with new boat pics come next spring. Lots of people coming from I/O's to inboards. It may be wise to stay away from the lakes for the first few weeks. Hehe, J/K!