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Rolled over the CAT scale this past weekend and was surprised by the total weight. This includes 800 lbs of lead (best guess as I can’t remember how many bags I loaded) and a 7/8 full gas tank. I am guessing that tongue weights is easily 600lbs placing total weight just below 10k lbs. She may need a diet for road trips.
The tow vehicle was a Ram 3500 dually. She is heavy too.
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I would say so.
I like big boats and I cannot lie. You other brothers can't deny. When a.....
I could go on and on and...
Social Media Questions of the Day . . . .
A) "So you think there will be any issues if I use my 1500?"
B) "How much lead are you adding?"
C) "What is your setup?"
A) no unless it's a ford. their hitches, although class IV, are only rated to tow a canoe with a go-pro. chevy/dodge no problem if your mechanic is on speed dial.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJHSupra
A.2) toyota/nissan? wait? do they make full size trucks??
B) I usually always keep 2 nickels on the boat for backing up. will that fit within the capacity plate?
C) people, gas, water, snacks and beer. what else is missing.
:)
you sir win the internet!Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm
There is an app you can use with the CAT Scales??
The ole Beastia isn’t that heavy, but she’s got a heavy nose at 750lb on the hitch. With the trailer almost level from the hitch to the axle its still over 650 and I don’t like it sitting like that.
That was the biggest reason why I got rid of the F150 Eco and went back to Ram.
Of course now my Ram is the oldest truck I have ever owned at 5 years now. But then again Beastia is entering her 8th summer of operation. This was after she supposed to be a 2 year deal LOL
Wild that the first gen Mojos were so nose heavy. Mine was around 700 lbs last I weighed it but I also had the center ballast tank full of 650 lbs of water so It was probably 200-300 lb heavier than it should have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmandley
Anyone know what the tongue weight is for the supra SL?
Pretty sure Boatmate designs all of their trailers to be 10% tongue weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaguel
Puts it around 720# and your 2018 F150 factory hitch is only rated for 500# tongue and 5000# trailer weight and you are over 7000#
I had to upgrade my 2018 F150 hitch to tow my SA.
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Thanks for the info. I'll look into that ASAP. Did'nt occur to me the hitch itself was rated separate from truck from the factory. The truck itself has the max tow package rated for 13k# towing capacity and 3500# load on bed. Dangit, that's another chunk of change in upgrade!Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
Can u give me some info on your trailer hitch upgrade, brand, where purchased?
This is what I am using.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaguel
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hit...leid=201833000
Easy install, only issue is you have a double hitch as this fits around the factory hitch. I put a hitch plug in the factory one and you can hardly tell, I do get the “why do you have two hitches” question once in awhile.
I use a 2” drop draw bar upside down to lift ball position to get trailer between 0 to -1 degrees.
I was between 2” or 3” drop flipped upside down. Either would work.
The factory hitch is part of the rear bumper support.
Other option is this hitch, you would have to order the Ford bumper support without the factory hitch option and swap them first, then use this hitch OR cut off the hitch receiver box of your factory hitch.
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hit...leid=201833001
Moombas are light enough and right at the limit to get away with factory hitch, but Supras exceed the factory hitch by nearly 50%.
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Or buy a 3/4 ton...
An F250 in black or white would match up nicely with the new SL...just saying.
No doubt a 3/4 ton is the right tool for the job. But a 3/4 ton sucks as a daily driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospersigman
A $200 hitch upgrade works for the 1000 miles I tow a year and let’s me enjoy the better ride quality and performance of an F150 for 14000 non towing miles per year.
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I put my 2020 SL on a CAT scale the day I picked it up from the dealership. It was 560 pounds on the tongue and 6600 pounds on the axles (7160 total). That was with batteries, 1 set of tower speakers, dual axle 18" wheels with a side-mounted spare, no front boarding ladder, only a little bit of gas, and some basic gear the dealer provided. After adding all my gear, a full tank of gas, 500 pounds of lead towards the back, and a few times out on the lake filling and emptying ballast I re-weighed at the CAT scale and tongue weight increased to 660 pounds. I made sure to empty the bilge but didn't remove the drain plugs for this measurement. I'm sure the ballast had some residual water them too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaguel
This Kind'a pisses me off. When I bought the truck, it was equipped with the max tow package, and the claim was towing upto 13k lbs. Neither the dealer nor any paperwork that is conspicuous in the manual said anything about needing to upgrade the hitch. If it is sold as set with that towing capacity, then it should be, from the drivetrain, frame all the way to the hitch components. I looked under the hitch and saw the label on the hitch. I wonder how many people buy this truck with that thought and are towing 8-10 K lbs thinking they are safe. I see a class action. Any lawyers here? J/K.
But seriously, this is BS>
How high does top of the trailer sit at the contact point of the ball?Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmkay
I need to weight my SL setup.
Glad I had a bigger truck at the ramp I was using last weekend at Norris. Steep and had some gravel on it.
Had thoughts of killing my 1500 Chevy as I tried to pull that tub out that night - 8 people sitting in there, lead, 1/2 tank gas, etc
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Amen brother, exact feelings and concerns on my F150.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaguel
It’s actually alarming to have a 500# tongue and 5000# max trailer hitch on a truck rated to tow 12k+.
However, truck owner is responsible for what they attach, how they attach and what equipment they use.
You are only as good as the weakest link. Ball, drawbar, hitch pin, hitch etc.
Moombas are right at the limit, But Supras are well over the limit. Wakeboats present a unique problem that clearly is not on Ford’s radar. The factory hitch can handle more IF using weight distribution gear, but wakeboats obviously can’t do that as WD does not allow for backing up a trailer.
Liability is on you, if your hitch fails due to knowingly or unknowingly overloading it, you own the failure. I highly doubt insurance will cover that failure and loss and I certainly am not going to risk a 6 figure loss or the chance of hurting/killing someone when I can cure it with a $200 hitch upgrade and 30 min of time to install.
I broached this topic with my Ford Dealer, they are absolutely clueless and said “ahhh you are fine, we pull big boats all the time”, F that, in case of failure, your dealer won’t come near backing you up, nor will they put it in writing.
Overloaded factory hitch works fine until it doesn’t, might last 1000 miles, 5000 miles or 100 miles, it’s rated for a reason, go over it and it will fail eventually. I am a mechanical engineer by degree/profession and understand failure modes and factor of safety.
Even 2020 F150’s still are 500/5000 hitch. Max tow package included.
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Wait, what? An F-150 rated to tow 13,000 pounds has a hitch rated at 5,000? How can this possibly be? I have an expedition max with the heavy duty trailer tow package. I'm guessing I'll have the same issue. I'm stunned.
Not sure why you think an F250 sucks as a daily? I have had 5 F150s from the 4.6L, 5.0L and the Eco-boost variety and I have had 3 F250s...I'll take the F250s over the F150s all day from a towing standpoint and a daily driver standpoint. I get better mpg from my diesel than I ever did from my F150s both towing and commuting in DFW traffic.
Maybe I am old and crotchety, but no matter GM, Ford and Ram the 3/4 tons are too stiff when unloaded as a daily, rough ride.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospersigman
I am not a diesel fan, they stink, suck to start in the cold, messy to fill, need DEF, need to be plugged in etc.
Totally get the love of them, they look badass, tons of torque, massive power mod potential etc.
I looked at an 18 250, maybe I didn’t get “used to it”, but diesel 3/4 ton is not for everyone daily.
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I was shocked too, Don’t think Ram and GM weren’t guilty also, 1/2 ton towing is VERY misleading marketing and you owe it to yourself to fully understand. I mean you made sure your drawbar and ball were rated for your boat right? Why wouldn’t you check the hitch tag?Quote:
Originally Posted by tre
I am just as shocked that toy owners, whether boats, travel trailers, toy haulers, etc don’t fully understand the hitch equipment they run. Putting blind faith in an OEM, travel trailer dealer, car dealer, boat dealer etc is foolish.
You expedition has the same problem.
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I have measured it because I wanted to make sure I was towing level but I can't remember exactly what it was. I think it was about 20" to the bottom of the trailer frame. I ended up getting a new ball-mount with more rise so that I would be within 1" of level. Those tongue weights were taken with the new ball-mount that tows level.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJHSupra
a topic that has been beat to death on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
our '99 f250 with the factory tow pack is only 5k so ford has been this way for over 20 years. if there was a real big issue it would have manifested itself in class action years ago. you mention GM but our '16 silverado 1500 has the right hitch from the factory. we have the z71 with tow pack and it came with a hitch rated to tow these boats. not saying GM is all right but our truck from factory came with the right hitch.
That's what I was wondering. I think I'm at 22-24" by the top of the actuator on the trailer. Looks level by the frame on the wheels, but appears too high closer to the receiver. Need to get on the Boatmate site to see if they have anything listed. Then get something to drop a few inches.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmkay
Fair enough, but how long have wakeboats exceeded 500/5000? 5-6 years maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm
GM is right now on 1/2 ton pick ups. Ram was not in last generation truck, but I think ok in the new generation.
Point is, you should know what gear you are running, if you think your fine, I am not here to change your mind. No matter, it’s your risk.
Whenever I see an F150 towing a large trailer, boat etc, I get away from it.
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I am 100% with ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
will say tho that if it was a large issue we(in the recreational community) would see a lot more publicity on lawsuits going on.
a couple other areas that go unnoticed as well:
tires on trucks. how many are towing these pigs with half tons and still running the "carlike" tires that come factory on trucks. not sure it matters but when we spec new rubber on the chevy this fall 10ply will be a requirement.
axles and tires on trailers. there's some differences in specs on trailer tires/axles and can vary depending on rim size. our tige is pushing the limit on the trailer it's sitting on dry. now add gear/fuel and iirc we are over the axle specs and discovered that the upgraded 18's have less load capacity than the 15's that were the "stock" rims.
when I took pics a few months ago for the last thread I am still amazed that the ford- with a lesser hitch rating- has what appears to be more stout bolts and is mounted in more places than the higher rated chevy. metal used on both hitches seems comparable in thickness and amount used but I'm no engineer.
Only thing I will add is travel trailers accept weight distribution hitches (just another upgrade) and with WD gear the factory hitch can take like 1100# and 11000# trailer weight.
Still doesn’t match the vehicle tow rating.
Ok, I will shut my pie hole now.
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The Tremor package on the new F250s uses different spring packs and rides less firm than the OG super duties. The new 7.3L gasser pushrod v8 seems to be a rare sparkling diamond in the world of complicated forced induction too. Not going to lie... I've been playing with the online configuration tool!
Currently towing with a Tahoe which has the 1k / 10k hitch from the factory and shorter rear diff offered with the max trailering package. Surprised at how well it handled my Kaiyen to be honest. I give most of the credit to Boatmate and these beautiful trailers.
Totally agree that tires are often overlooked though... All these 22"+ wheels with the skinny profile street tires that don't come close to proper load requirements. I sold the 22s and Cooper tires that came on my truck and "downgraded" to smaller wheels with nice Conti A/Ts before hitching up...
There is some major misconception about the ratings from Ford going around. The stock hitch on the F150 is rated for more than 5,000 lbs. The one my truck states a little over 11,000 lbs. The catch is to use the full weight rating you have to utilize a weight distribution set up, which most everyone towing heavy ass travel trailers is. In order to get that max 13,200 lb rating you have to have the truck configured in a very specific way (max tow, extended cab, 4x2, xlt trim, ect). The more weight you add in the form of options like 4x4, crew cab, lariat ect the heavier the truck is and the less it can tow.
There is a lot of discussion on the 500/5000 being more of a truck rating due to taking weight off the steer axle when you get above 500 lbs tongue weight. The hitch is plenty strong because whether it is weight carrying or weight distributing it is still holding the tongue weight of the trailer. Most of these after market set ups that I have seen that say they are good for 1000lb weight carrying tongue weight look to the eye way more flimsy than the factory hitch. I wonder if the testing criteria to determine capacity is the same for Ford and say Curt for example?
PS, our 2015 expedition stock hitch sticker says 600lbs tongue, 6000 trailer weight carrying and 920 lb tongue, 9200 lb weight distributing. Which is the exact rating of the vehicle from Ford
GM HD trucks ride nothing like Ford or Ram. My daily driver 2015 Chevy 3500 diesel rides just as nicely as any 1/2 ton I've ever owned or ridden in. It's a little more work to park in tight quarters (crew cab w/longbed), but it's just fine as a daily driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
Mileage-wise it's about a wash with a 1/2 ton gasser, the Cummins in the Rams are the kings of diesel fuel economy.
Not sure how old a truck you've been exposed to, but there is no stinkiness to mine, and it's as quiet as any gasser.
Perhaps I should test drive a few 3/4tons.
Curb weight alone the 250 is 2500# more than an F150.
Could I tolerate a 250 daily, probably. But honestly the F150 does very well towing my SA. The 3.5EB, 10 speed and 3.55 gear has plenty of shitnget, to pull nearly 8000# of wakeboat, trailer, lead and gear.
I actually have 2 F150’s currently, 2018 3.5EB and 2019 2.7EB and the 2.7 feels quicker.
Both run low 14 sec 1/4 mile and are sporty to drive for a full size truck.
To each their own. Love a lot about a 250 don’t get me wrong.
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My brother in law owns a construction company and drives a chevy 2500 diesel, 2019. I have driven it and I have to admit it is fairly comfortable but it feels substantially larger than my F150, It drives confortably enough for a truck that size and I could live with it as a daily if my work demanded it, but for a guy who needs to pull a boat on weekends, it does seem like a little much. It feels stiffer, heavier, ride seems a little rougher, not dramatically, but one can tell. As a regular consumer I would not buy it, but If I needed one I could see myself using it as a daily. My BIL actually got himself a Maxima for his daily when not using the truck for work. It is a very nice truck with all the creature comforts one can get on a luxury sedan.
Those Ecoboost engines are impressive. I rented an Expedition with it one time, expected it to be gutless. I couldn't have been more wrong. Great gas mileage too.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
To me, if I'm going to own a truck, it may as well have as much capability as I can get (within reason, I'm not gonna be daily driving an MDT), so I can do whatever I might need to do.
I never have to question whether my truck will tow/haul whatever I need it to. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...71040fc1c0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7d3c13a3c6.jpg
The 2.7l puts out 121hp per liter. That is a very high state of tune for a factory engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoebox
Imagine the raptor 6.2 in that level of tune....750hp.
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ford must have some good engineers on board. in the turbo4 community it's not uncommon to see 150hp/liter from the small 4's and the ford focus rs was up in that same range but from a 6cyl in a truck it's impressive. betting the groundwork on the 3.5 and the focus rs helped them.
In the after market it’s not difficult, I have a Cadillac running 130hp per liter, but 121 is extremely impressive STOCK.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm
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If I could find an Ecoboost setup <100k miles reasonably priced, I'd be tempted to stick it into my 1950 Ford car.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona