Huge Wave little Push

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08-20-2019, 11:17 AM
flienlow

Huge Wave little Push

Having an issue with a smaller crew. I am able to consistently get a large wave with any crew. And with 5600lbs of ballast.....I ought too.

When I have a crew of 12 or so with full ballast, my wave is really good. I can ride a shim board and land a 360 ( if lucky.) However, when we have just the locals for a quick run and a crew of 4, that is when we struggle. Can we surf and let go of the rope? Yes, no issues. can we pull off tricks like a 360? No.

We seem to lack push at the back of the wave. We also seems to lack compression/hardness/stiffness (if you will) of the water coming from the transom. The wave while is huge it seems Squishy.

Typical settings would be SURF LEFT 100% ALL Ballast, 0 Wakeplate 65 Surf PLATE Speed around 10.7 ( 9.8 indicated)

Perhaps I need to go back to basics, but what should I look at ?
08-20-2019, 11:24 AM
KnoxMojo

What's your pitch and roll numbers with that setup? 9.5 and -4 is what you should be looking for and maybe speed up a bit. That will firm up your wave.
08-20-2019, 11:30 AM
Prospersigman

I say speed...if you want firmness I would bump it up to 11.2 or so, you might lose a little bit of the "hugeness" but it will firm it up and provide consistent push from front to back.
08-20-2019, 11:34 AM
Arcadyus

You have 2600 lbs of extra ballast above stock?
08-20-2019, 12:09 PM
flienlow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcadyus

You have 2600 lbs of extra ballast above stock?

Yes. stock is 3000. I have 1200s rear, 1100 mid and stock 1000 bow.

Pitch is 8-9 and roll usually -1.5 -.3.5.

I will try more speed. Usually we find the boat will start running aways, and to be honest, I dont think it has a lot more speed. I can try adding a bow bag to bring the nose down, but that will affect pitch too?
08-20-2019, 12:13 PM
KnoxMojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by flienlow

Yes. stock is 3000. I have 1200s rear, 1100 mid and stock 1000 bow.

Pitch is 8-9 and roll usually -1.5 -.3.5.

I will try more speed. Usually we find the boat will start running aways, and to be honest, I dont think it has a lot more speed. I can try adding a bow bag to bring the nose down, but that will affect pitch too?

That only adds up to 4500 pounds.. what am I missing... at some point it's also some technique and maybe needing a slightly bigger board.
08-20-2019, 12:52 PM
flienlow

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

That only adds up to 4500 pounds.. what am I missing... at some point it's also some technique and maybe needing a slightly bigger board.

2400+2200+1000= 5600est

I am most certain our technique could be better, however, it is not just me. We were playing around and threw a suckgate on with a crew of 3. I caught all kinds of shit for that, but the wave while not at all pretty, was one of the best I've had out of the boat. The wave had lots of push and was rock solid to spin the board on. I am trying to replicate that without a suckgate.
08-20-2019, 01:02 PM
KnoxMojo

Ah, 1100 each side.. got ya.. yeah, you have a setup issue somewhere. You should be able to configure all that to ride with 2 people, driver and rider, and be awesome.
08-20-2019, 01:07 PM
flienlow

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

Ah, 1100 each side.. got ya.. yeah, you have a setup issue somewhere. You should be able to configure all that to ride with 2 people, driver and rider, and be awesome.

Indeed. I wonder if I have too much weight? Or simply not placed correctly?
08-20-2019, 01:15 PM
KnoxMojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by flienlow

Indeed. I wonder if I have too much weight? Or simply not placed correctly?

That's my guess.. where are you located? You may be running too much tab as.. try it at like 90, then work your way down to 25, upper end and lower end will suck, but you'll find a great wave in there somewhere. It also seems you are not listing the boat at all. Fill the 1100 surf side sack full. The other 1100 about half or less. Orient your passengers biased to the surf side as well.
08-20-2019, 01:31 PM
Arcadyus

Quote:

Originally Posted by flienlow

Indeed. I wonder if I have too much weight? Or simply not placed correctly?

You are for sure over the max capacity of your boat with even 2 passengers, or if you're my size 1. I agree try 11.1 - 11.4 mph. My Makai surfs much better with as much as 300lbs of lead biased the surf side. You may also try using some wake plate in conjunction with extra speed. Maybe try 65 surf plate and 20 wake plate. With your right side mid ship bag only fill to 800lbs. See if that helps..
08-20-2019, 02:13 PM
parrothd

Quote:

Originally Posted by flienlow

Having an issue with a smaller crew. I am able to consistently get a large wave with any crew. And with 5600lbs of ballast.....I ought too.

When I have a crew of 12 or so with full ballast, my wave is really good. I can ride a shim board and land a 360 ( if lucky.) However, when we have just the locals for a quick run and a crew of 4, that is when we struggle. Can we surf and let go of the rope? Yes, no issues. can we pull off tricks like a 360? No.

We seem to lack push at the back of the wave. We also seems to lack compression/hardness/stiffness (if you will) of the water coming from the transom. The wave while is huge it seems Squishy.

Typical settings would be SURF LEFT 100% ALL Ballast, 0 Wakeplate 65 Surf PLATE Speed around 10.7 ( 9.8 indicated)

Perhaps I need to go back to basics, but what should I look at ?

Sorry, this sounds like a technique/skill level issue, with smaller crew aka less ballast the pocket is going to be smaller.

Only options are increase your skill level buy riding and adjusting or adding extra ballast when with a smaller crew.

On my light crew days(just me and driver) I add a 500lb bag in the center, this keeps the wave consistent from large to small crew size.

If you're surfing a monster wave one day, then normal size the next, well ya know.. lol
08-20-2019, 02:13 PM
korey

+1 for more speed! I just switched to a faster board and was really struggling with keeping it from stalling too bad when i inevitably had to slam on the brakes. went from 11.3 to 11.7 and it's like night and day. I was near the point of, "Why do I even enjoy this?" before the change and now i'm all, "Is it lake time yet?!" again!
08-20-2019, 02:14 PM
csm

Agree with what’s been said, but I’d also try less surf plate. I run similar weight and run the surf plate at 45 for surfing port, speed at 11.5. My old boats had always worked best at 10.5-10.7 so took me a while to realize my max is best at 11.5ish.

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08-20-2019, 02:20 PM
parrothd

Quote:

Originally Posted by korey

+1 for more speed! I just switched to a faster board and was really struggling with keeping it from stalling too bad when i inevitably had to slam on the brakes. went from 11.3 to 11.7 and it's like night and day. I was near the point of, "Why do I even enjoy this?" before the change and now i'm all, "Is it lake time yet?!" again!

.2 mph can make a huge difference.. :)
08-20-2019, 02:21 PM
flienlow

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

That's my guess.. where are you located? You may be running too much tab as.. try it at like 90, then work your way down to 25, upper end and lower end will suck, but you'll find a great wave in there somewhere. It also seems you are not listing the boat at all. Fill the 1100 surf side sack full. The other 1100 about half or less. Orient your passengers biased to the surf side as well.

Located in the Seattle area.

We do surf with passengers on the surf side. I don't feel lack of listing is the issue. I do find it difficult to tell what changes as sometimes there are no visual differences. If I go as low as 90 in the past that produced -.15 list, but its worth a shot to try again.
On that note would it be better to take out all the surf plate and then reduce the ballast and then add it back in? Hell maybe I should yank the 1100s out and just try the 1200s in the rear? Damned if you do and Damned if you dont. In Stock config, there is not much wave at all. Clearly the Max needs more weight. It would be great to find that sweet spot with lower weight because I have to be burning 12gal/hr with my current set up.
08-20-2019, 02:36 PM
Prospersigman

I surf 11.6-11.7...when I slow it down to 11-11.2 it feels like I am going sooooo slow! The push in the back of the wave is much more mushy when I slow the boat down, very easy to bury the front of the board when trying to pump from the back pocket to generate speed down the line to do airs and shuvits. The push in the front pocket closer to the swim deck is fine still at slower speeds, it only seems to affect the back pocket when I slow speed down.
08-20-2019, 02:56 PM
flienlow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prospersigman

I surf 11.6-11.7...when I slow it down to 11-11.2 it feels like I am going sooooo slow! The push in the back of the wave is much more mushy when I slow the boat down, very easy to bury the front of the board when trying to pump from the back pocket to generate speed down the line to do airs and shuvits. The push in the front pocket closer to the swim deck is fine still at slower speeds, it only seems to affect the back pocket when I slow speed down.

10.2 indidated on mine seems like wakeboard speed. I think my speedo is off, but I will try less ballast and more speed and see how that goes.
08-20-2019, 04:16 PM
Arcadyus

Bring her to Lake Stevens. We can get it figured out. 12GPH holy shit what prop are you using?
08-20-2019, 05:01 PM
flienlow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcadyus

Bring her to Lake Stevens. We can get it figured out. 12GPH holy shit what prop are you using?

Its the 2419!! I have never seen a gas gauge drop faster in anything in my life. :)
08-20-2019, 05:45 PM
FamilyMan

1100s in the side.... no way those are filling all the way up. 720s fill it nearly complete with the venting on top.

I also go a minimum of 11.4, otherwise it’s a tall steep monster.

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08-21-2019, 10:39 AM
haknslash

If you’re seeing GPS speeds higher you may need to adjust your triducer. There is an arrow on it so that you can align it. I had to have mine replaced and when they installed the new one my Speedo was way off. Had them come out to show me how it’s adjusted and we got it dialed in .2 mph or so GPS vs indicated speed on the dash.
08-21-2019, 12:14 PM
flienlow

Quote:

Originally Posted by haknslash

If you’re seeing GPS speeds higher you may need to adjust your triducer. There is an arrow on it so that you can align it. I had to have mine replaced and when they installed the new one my Speedo was way off. Had them come out to show me how it’s adjusted and we got it dialed in .2 mph or so GPS vs indicated speed on the dash.

Maybe I will have the dealer fix that when they fix my Port ballast Pumps that barely work now. :mad:
08-21-2019, 12:16 PM
flienlow

You should come out to Flowing Arcadyus
08-21-2019, 01:16 PM
Arcadyus

Quote:

Originally Posted by flienlow

You should come out to Flowing Arcadyus

for what smallmouth fishing? If we're talking the same lake it's only 120 acres or so right? I live close so I'd be down I suppose. Although I always screamed at wakeboats when I use to fish there lol. Did Zac sell you your boat?
08-21-2019, 02:37 PM
Matt0520

Huge Wave little Push

Flienlow, what type of board are you riding?

If I’m on a cheap/thin board I don’t feel much push at the back of the pocket. But if I’m on a thick EPS foam board (Doomswell, Ronix, etc) I feel a ton of push from the back. Feels like dropping over the edge into a halfpipe.

Board makes a big difference! Lots of push and you can ride way further back.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9981ff0f06.jpg

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08-21-2019, 02:50 PM
Kxmoomba

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt0520

Flienlow, what type of board are you riding?

If I’m on a cheap/thin board I don’t feel much push at the back of the pocket. But if I’m on a thick EPS foam board (Doomswell, Ronix, etc) I feel a ton of push from the back. Feels like dropping over the edge into a halfpipe.

Board makes a big difference! Lots of push and you can ride way further back.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9981ff0f06.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree on the board as well. We have the '18 Max with the stock 3,000lbs and 750 on each side. Riding a Doomswell Mongrel and it is one of the funnest waves I have ridden with 3 people in the boat. If we have more people we usually don't fill the 750's all the way too. Pitch 9 roll -3 or 3 depending on which side your surfing center plate at 15 and 70 goofy and 65 regular for us works very very well. Personally I have ridden a few other boards and they were not cheap boards by any means but like matt0520 says they are thinner and while I can ride them well I have to pump a lot more.
08-22-2019, 11:56 AM
flienlow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcadyus

for what smallmouth fishing? If we're talking the same lake it's only 120 acres or so right? I live close so I'd be down I suppose. Although I always screamed at wakeboats when I use to fish there lol. Did Zac sell you your boat?

Haha!! No, Darren got me.
08-22-2019, 12:00 PM
flienlow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kxmoomba

I agree on the board as well. We have the '18 Max with the stock 3,000lbs and 750 on each side. Riding a Doomswell Mongrel and it is one of the funnest waves I have ridden with 3 people in the boat. If we have more people we usually don't fill the 750's all the way too. Pitch 9 roll -3 or 3 depending on which side your surfing center plate at 15 and 70 goofy and 65 regular for us works very very well. Personally I have ridden a few other boards and they were not cheap boards by any means but like matt0520 says they are thinner and while I can ride them well I have to pump a lot more.

Lately I have been riding my Ronix Thumb Tail. Other boards on the boat are a Hyperlite Shim, CWB Bently, and Ronix One.

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