Anyone checkout the new Polar Bear video from Oct 2018?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...67B2FD1A12D9D8
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Anyone checkout the new Polar Bear video from Oct 2018?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...67B2FD1A12D9D8
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I have indeed watched.
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I watched it as well.
"Total displacement" makes me think. It's more complex than simply weight when it comes to producing a surf wave, as hull size and surface area make it harder or easier to sink a hull deeply at a given weight.....and its very much about how deeply the hull sinks into the water.
I.e. a big flat hull is going to achieve a more shallow depth than a short deepV hull at the same or similar overall weight. And surf wave is going to be the roughly inverse amplitude of the hull moving water aside as it plows through the water. Every action produces an equal and opposite reaction......KINDA.
Not that Robert draws any conclusions from presenting these displacement numbers, I just hesitate to relate them to actual results/waves with much meaning.
If that makes sense. Not really a critique of anything, just a deep thought on surf waves, weights and wave sizes.....well not that deep, but whatever.
Example: I know the Fi25 was really good. But it also was 1200# heavier than anything else, and has a deepV hull shape that lends itself to deep sinking. They even had a hydrolock issue related to this at one point. They sink like mothers!
So it stands to reason that boat will do well.
Meanwhile an equal sized boat with a much flatter hull (Makai) is running a lot less weight and is harder to sink. Thus producing a less impressive wave.
The outcomes are going to reflect this discrepancy.
Flatter hulls will need more weight at a given size than a deepV to make the same amplitude wave.
So why is not everyone deepV if its more "bang for the pound?" (sounds dirty but isn't?) Well, I suppose its because there are tradeoffs in stability, the way the interior space ends up, wakeboard performance, etc....so each manufacturer chooses the shape according to their desired outcomes.
More deep and potentially completely useless thoughts.
Now to make chicken in the InstantPot.
I watched it as well. Glad to see they were able to recover the footage. I feel bad for his community losing everything in the fire.
Good surf video. Pretty worthless analysis overall
Missing a few if not many of the best boats out there too
Sems like a friend surf party. Which is cool. But reallly not helpful.
I was out there this year, and my 2 cents on my personal favourite waves were...everyone on the boat had differing opinions though:
1) Supra SL - This wave was not the biggest in amplitude...but it had such consistent push from front to back...the Wake9 family has it dialed as well!
2) Centurion FI-25 - This wave was HUGE...it was Hunter Clement's boat and he was driving...so it had a LOT of weight....so much room as well.
3) MB B52 - This wave was dialed and steep...seemed to lack the customizability of some of the other waves...but it was pretty awesome and the stock setup comes with a LOT of weight.
4) G23 - Had never ridden behind a G...but I really liked it...was a great wave with very consistent push
.
5) X23 - This boat is really nicely finished inside with the CoolTech Vinyl. The Mastercraft surf system appears to have a lot of customization to the wave.
6) Makai - The length on the wave was pretty long...I felt like it was lacking push though at the end of the wave...I think given it was so new they were still getting some of the kinks out of the wave. One of the drivers(Brandon) didn't seem to have any problems catching some pretty awesome air off the wake though ;) I think with a little bit more tinkering...the wave could be pretty awesome from what I seen...the boat is massive!
7) Heyday - This boat with the stock ballast and about 600 lbs of lead in the bow was pretty awesome. It lacked any form of surf system outside of the suckgate...but it surprised everyone with how good the wave was. I would say with some plug and play bags to add an additional 1000ish pounds of weight this thing could be really good.
From what I heard, they had a Max out in 2017 and it was one of the top waves running stock ballasts with 1000 lbs of lead midship under the tower.
Good summary. The Makai was stock +1000 of lead, which is not nearly enough. The Centurion had 1200# lbs more than that. So all that makes sense.
The SL has one arm tied behind its back. Only 700 in lead and a new driver just running basic Autowake profile.
You find any new love affairs with surf boards?
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also, not trying to be a Debbie downer , but if a mfg. cant throw a killer wave with factory ballast and 1000 lb of lead , then the hull and surf system should be redesigned. I have not seen so much lead entered into a surf equation as this Polar bear event
Yeah, well it’s a trade off between size and interior space available. So....there’s really no other way to slice it.
That heavy ass Fi has poor storage. A real downer for an owner that wants storage and a “decent” surf wave. That owner would love a Makai for opposite reasons.
You can alter a Makai to take on a lot more water like the Fi if you want to....all the storage goes away though.
Hence people opt for lead.
It’s really not a complex decision tree. You want space or weight? Can’t have both.
If you want the boss wave, it becomes weight. Polar bear is supposed to be a boss wave event.
The hull and surf system are fine. They’re not nearly as vital as you think. It’s -Mostly- about weight.
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Yeah well, that’s easy to say. And impractical if you’re making business decisions. They could add more water to the factory system and fill all your compartments? But half of the people don’t want that. So which part of the buyer population do you alienate?
I personally don’t mind adding weight to the boat because surf is my top priority. If storage was, I wouldn’t add a thing.
Furthermore there are capacity regulations that they need to dance around as well.
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Also: I have it on good faith that they did indeed desire for a Tige to be present at this year’s event but corporate Tige did not want to do it. There’s possibly a rift there, and a concern that it may not be entirely objective? That’s speculation on my part.
I personally don’t think that Robert rolls that way.
Have no clue why Malibu is not there.
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True. Just an observation on the missing and the boats that were there .
Fi vs the Ri, sl vs the Se , x23 vs the xstar or x24
I would say there’s really not much in it for the boat manufacturers. Or the dealers that donate the boats. Therefore probably not high on the list of ways to spend time?
Just guessing again. Now that all manufacturers have incredible boats there isn’t really much to learn. Other than having a good time and surfing.
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There are a couple manufactures that seem to throw top 3 waves with factory ballast and less the 1000lbs of lead. No need for 3k more water.
I just rode the new '19 SE with factory only - If you need to add more then 1000 lbs to that then you should spend more time practicing.
It depends on what factory ballast is! That’s the point.
What are your top 3 on factory ballast?
I also have quite a bit of time in the new SE. I’m sure factory ballast is fine, but it really has nothing to do with your skill level. Bigger waves- longer waves- more powerful waves- are always more fun. Always.
In fact—you should ride the new SE with 650s in the rear lockers and 1000 pounds of lead in the nose. Oh boy. Now that’s some fun!
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Good times! [emoji102]
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I'm almost certain they planned to have an axis at the event, but maybe something happened where it didn't line up? Or more likely I'm just miss remembering things...
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Tige was indeed almost in the event. It was just too last minute to arrange logistics to get a boat of mine down there.
In regard to the SE....
I have one. Boat is awesome with 1k lbs of lead but its really really awesome with 650s in the rear and that 1k of lead midship/bow. Some might say why? I say why not? You direct me to the guy that prefers less length, less height and a softer wave, I want to shake his hand.
Its definitely a trade off when talking about why certain MFG use more weight then others. The short answer (given I carry competing brands) is simple. It really is about the trade offs and what a said MFG thinks its customer base values more.
While you make think that one boat has it all, I can assure you it does not. I heard malibu mentioned as a boat that might fit that bill. Ill play devils advocate here.... Ill use the LSV as a comp. Nice nice boat, has storage although it needs rear pnp to really surf good... but it only all works if you use the wedge. Want to know what that wedge is simulating? You guessed it, weight. Sure it frees up some storage room but guess what? the tradeoff here is a fuel burn from that drag that is in the neighborhood of 14-17 GPH. I'll use lead instead.
Back to the SE. To be honest we use the extra weight because we like to run faster. The extra weight does not transform it into a different animal at face value but what it does do is NOT change the shape and height when you start to introduce big speed into the equation which in itself induces lift. We weight it heavy to negate that which allows us to run the boats in the 12-12.3 range for big time pros and even beginners. The wave when significantly heavier retains its shape but also is transformed into this concrete hard Loooooooong playground. The bonus is also that the deeper it is ran the more it is sending the delayed water out and away. You can run a heavier boat much more straight up then one that is lighter. Stock AW is around 4-5 degrees of lean. When we are heavy it needs maybe 1.5-2 degrees side to side max. Hit fill all and go. 6500 lbs, 12mph plus turning 3100 RPM sipping a measly 7gph with a blower.
Ill take that everyday and twice on sunday.
Not sure about that. I watched one of his recent videos and when he mentioned Tige. Nothing was negative about it. He comment was “go try one out”
Now that he is with SC, not sure anyone would be expecting him push buyers to Tige anyone.
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I would love to ride your SE. all sacked and leaded out
But the title of the video is the best surf boats for 19 and i think they missed the mark by not including some of the best including the SE and putting in a MC that is discountinued
Eveyone has there preferences. But i would rather push a button for 1500 lbs than move it around the boat regardless of the GPH comparisons
We dont move anything around :) the 1k stays in all the time, in the same spot.
You may not care about the GPH but I cant for the life of me see how a boat that burns an avg of double the fuel a trip is tolerable or accepted. Go to powell and boat for a week. My crew surfs for 6-8 hours a day.... that's around 48 gallons vs around 90 gallons. Thats 120 plus a day difference in fuel. Do this for 7 days and you can see where I am going.
Locally we surf 3 days a week, 4 hour at a time. You say regardless of fuel burn you would rather push a button. I say take a harder look at the numbers.
Now its a gph issue ? maybe we should talk resale value if your worried about your bottom line
Your comments are misplaced
The main coments were about the PB18 missing the mark on the best surf boats out there . They missed
As a dealer i assume your running demos So running gas laps is important
Gas station is 1 mile from my lake house on the water .
so i would love to ride as much as you all do but family time and water time on our other boat is just as important to me on the lake .
Now wait—you started this line of discussion with the Debbie Downer post. From there it has been an exploration of why manufacturers choose different areas of emphasis. I think mention of GPH is ok in the storage vs ballast vs other advantages discussion. Especially when you assert that Malibu “has it all.”
Maybe I missed your sentiment?
It bears examination that you offer Malibu as the holy grail. The truth: No bow storage. No locker storage. A wedge that sucks gas. And a wave, although EXCELLENT, is not “superior” to a similarly set up competitors 25’ boat.
Point is: in the end, nobody has secrets. Nobody. I am not saying this is you, but being a brand homer is way out of style these days.
Your point about the event not being a collection of premier surf boats is very valid. The lineup is not quite on par with that title. SE would be good, a properly weighted SL would be good, a properly weighted Makai also belongs there. The Fi is as good as any Ri and thus belongs. The x24 would be nice, but x23 is no slouch. A zx5 would have been great—they tried but it didn’t work. An A24, 24 MXZ, or 25 LSV would have been fun too.
All should be permitted and not scorned for adding weight to make the playing field level.
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I wonder what was up with no BU of any size?
The new X24 or XStar would also be cool.
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My comments arent misplaced at all. My point was that its all a give and take and that no boat has it all. Its big picture. Resale? You have me there, dont know how that correlates or where you even are going with that but I digress.
You seem to really like Malibu and thats awesome, its why I used them as an example. FYI its a killer machine IMO.
You seemed to think that my 1k in lead + PNP is a lot so I explained to you the reasoning why . You said you would rather push a button then move weight around which I clarified in saying that we actually dont move weight, ever, at any time, since it originally went in the boat. Just was trying to get the details straight is all.
In your opinion you would rather push a bottom and drag a weighting device that simulates 1500lbs of weight at the expense of double the fuel... Instead of what? Adding some lead at the beginning? Running some PNP Bags?. To supra/moomba and most other MFG for that matter, the fuel burn is more important then needing to add 1k lbs of lead in the boat.
If you want to talk about on water time lets do it. I think on water time is exactly what supra and other MFG have as a top priority. How much time are malibu/ axis owners wasting having to get fuel once a day in their big boats and every half day in the smaller stuff? I guess its all about perspective. Even with living on a lake, I know how much time it takes to drop ballast, motor to the dock, get fuel and then go back out, re setup and start again.
"Also, not trying to be a Debbie downer , but if a mfg. cant throw a killer wave with factory ballast and 1000 lb of lead , then the hull and surf system should be redesigned. I have not seen so much lead entered into a surf equation as this Polar bear event"
My counter to that before and ill repeat is and I quote "Id rather run some lead then burn 15-17GPH with all things considered".
You say "If a mfg cant throw a killer wave with factory ballast and 1k lbs of lead then the hull design and surf system should be redesigned"
I say, if a mfg cant get a good wave without dropping a gas guzzling foil that simulates 1500lbs of downforce at the expense of 15 Gph then maybe it too should explore a hull design or ballast change.
All perspective right?
Thats really what I was after. Ill chalk it up to me doing a shitty explaining my thoughts.