Trayson's DIY "Supra Surf System" (SSS) modeled after the NSS

So, I've been wanting to do a "delayed convergence" system on my boat. I've seen a ton of writeups with various levels of home brew projects. When it came down to it, I found myself debating between doing a Surfgate type system (albeit manual) or a Nautique Surf System (NSS) inspired system.

I found a great template on a forum that gave the exact dimensions of the 2014 Axis surfgate. But then I found a writeup where someone did a NSS inspired system on a Malibu.

I've had the opportunity to ride both a Malibu with Surfgate and a couple of Nautiques (G23 and G25) with NSS. In the end, the less bulk of the NSS and suitability of my hull (flat) for the installation won me over. So, I'm doing a "Supra Surf System" (SSS) on my boat. I'll use HDPE as a baseplate and throughbolt that to my hull. Then I'll have a "blade" likewise made from 1/2" HDPE that will slide out and downward.

I took my measurements for blade excursion from the writeup by H20 Junkie on the Malibu forums http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...alibu-project/
Basically he was able to get measurements from a bunch of Nautiques and was able to determine that the optimal sideways excursion is up to 3" and the optimal downward excursion is between 3/4" and 1". I went with 3" out and 3/4" down.

Here is a really crude drawing that was the beginning of my vision (even before I read the other guy's writeup).
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-E.../s800/NSS1.jpg

The step on the stern of my boat from white to black is exactly 1/2". So the logical choice for material was 1/2" HDPE in white. I figured I'd have two baseplates, a lower "filler" baseplate that covered the white, and another baseplate on top of that that covered all of the lower filler plate as well as some of the black portion of my stern. Then I would have a blade that slid on posts that came up from the baseplates. And a simple knob to secure it in place when extended or retracted. Basically, unscrew knob, slide out the blade to the desired spot, then tighten the knob down. Very manual, but very quick and easy.

To start I got out some cardboard and made a mockup:

Retracted assembly:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E...606_212014.jpg

Blade fully deployed:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-S...606_212030.jpg

Backside of assembly deployed:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6...606_212041.jpg

Next, I taped my cardboard assemply onto my boat to see how it'd look. Of course it was dark out, but I had to press on...

Extended
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-n...606_213353.jpg

Retracted from front (it looks like it sticks out but is parallel with the lines of the hull and only protrudes because of the rounded corners of the corner)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1...606_213432.jpg

Retracted
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N...606_213423.jpg

Extended from front:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-d...606_213403.jpg

Since my goal was to pull my gas tank to install this using through bolting, I made sure to drain my tank down (not hard when surfing on a few outings). I was glad I did that because last night when I tried to drain my tank, I couldn't get any of my fluid pumps working. So frustrating. In the end I muscled the gas tank out without draining it. Luckily there was only probably 6 or 7 gallons left in the tank.

would love to try and do this on my outback

Here's a pic of the inside of my trunk from when I re-did my rudder packing. The stern is at the bottom of this pic.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-z...428_184801.jpg

So, I went to my local TAP plastics and bought 6 pieces of 13x17" HDPE in 1/2" thickness. Turns out that I could have gotten away with 1 piece less as I was able to make my bottom baseplate for both Port and Starboard out of a single piece. But it's better to have too much than not enough. All the HDPE was a total of $78. I played around with taping up a template on the HDPE the other night...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4...609_220210.jpg

Then I made a run to my local industrial bolt supply company. I chose to go with 1/4-20 bolts because it's such a common thread pattern. I mapped out where I'd have all my bolts and holes. My plan was to have the bolts for the posts going through all of the hull, baseplate(s), and blade. I would have a thin nut on top of the baseplates and then have the remainder of the bolt go through the blade with a nylock nut on top. That way the blade would actually be sliding on the bolts of the posts (or maybe washers) instead of having the whole of the blade sliding on the whole of the upper baseplate. I figure less friction and a small gap would work well.

After my first run to the bolt store, I was into hardware $20. I made another run to a local ACE hardware store and got my wing knobs. ($5). I got some plastic handles that you'd use on a kitchen cabinet or drawer for $5 from Home Depot. I also got a tube of 3m 4200 fast cure from West marine ($15)
http://cdn.mscdirect.com/global/imag...0710846-23.jpg

Last night I made yet another cardboard template for the lower baseplate (that covered the white). I also drilled all of my holes for the starboard side (Regular wave is more important to me so it made sense to start with the blade that would affect goofy and learn from that to make any slight improvements to the Port side). I had my wife hold the smaller lower baseplate to the hull and I drilled the holes in the baseplate from the inside of the boat out using the holes in the hull as my pilot holes. Sadly, I knicked my wife's finger with the drillbit when I THOUGHT I was drilling out one hole and turned out to be drilling out another that her hand was covering! A little blood, but she wasn't hurt.

So, by the end of last night I had all the holes drilled in both baseplates. I then took all my bolts and verified that I had my lengths right. Turns out that almost universally I needed longer bolts because I was going through thicker stuff on the hull than anticipated. So I got down all the actual bolt sizes I needed and went back to Vancouver Bolt and got more hardware. (another $15 in hardware for longer bolts, even more washers, and a few bolts I missed getting the first trip.)

By this time is was getting really late and I'd imagine my neighbors already hate me for my late night boat projects involving drills and impact guns and the like that are outside their bedroom window. So that's where I am so far.

Unfortunately tonight's forecast is for showers and I might be doing some of this in the wet. I'd like to get this buttoned up so I can get the 24 hours of fast cure with the 4200 and not miss any boating time this weekend. It's possible, we'll have to see!

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Originally Posted by motosno963

would love to try and do this on my outback

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What does the back of your hull look like? One of the reasons for the ease on install on mine is because I have a flat stern. Otherwise, it'd make a lot more sense to go with more of a surfgate or even a homebrew Moomba Flow (which I also considered). With the surfgate I would have simply cut a surfgate to the Axis dimensions and attached it to my hull with a stainless steel 4" hinge, then had a rod that would prop it outward in the deployed position that attached to the swim platform bracket using hardware similar to a bimini top. Eventually I might have even put in a Lenco trim tab actuator, but I wasn't excited about spending $500 on those!

I'm into my project $140 so far by the way...

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Originally Posted by trayson

I'm into my project $140 so far by the way...

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I would hope a nice bottle of wine and dinner for the wife's Finger..

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Originally Posted by mmandley

I would hope a nice bottle of wine and dinner for the wife's Finger..

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Oh, she doesn't have to get me anything...

hehehe

the stern is flat from about the top of my swim platform down

dumb question, but are you sure the hull at the rear can support the forces that will be cast upon it from what this is going to be doing?

surfgate puts a much different stress on the hull than the nautique nss, or moomba flow.

Wow this type of ingenuity astonishes me! Good luck with the project and I am excited to see how it turns out for you. Since you drilled these holes into your hull I guess you could say you're invested in "making it work" one way or the other. I am interested like berg asked to know about your hypothesis regarding the added hull drag/force.

Is the HDPE strong enough for the force of the water or will it break off, the OEM use Aluminun For a reason I assume.

Great write up and mod BTW..

Looks like you've got a good design started. I have similar concerns with the hull strength, material and 1/4" hardware. I really don't know how much force these see... I guess the wakeplate or trim tabs don't take a whole lot of support. I'm tuned in, good luck!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by motosno963

the stern is flat from about the top of my swim platform down

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Then it's probably work well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sandm

dumb question, but are you sure the hull at the rear can support the forces that will be cast upon it from what this is going to be doing?

surfgate puts a much different stress on the hull than the nautique nss, or moomba flow.

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We'll find out. In a lot of ways, the baseplates are actually going to function to strengthen the hull. adding reinforcement in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Cigars n scotch

Wow this type of ingenuity astonishes me! Good luck with the project and I am excited to see how it turns out for you. Since you drilled these holes into your hull I guess you could say you're invested in "making it work" one way or the other. I am interested like berg asked to know about your hypothesis regarding the added hull drag/force.

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I guess there's only 1 way to find out. The other guy that did it on his malibu is having it work just fine and he didn't even through bolt his...

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Originally Posted by jmvotto

Is the HDPE strong enough for the force of the water or will it break off, the OEM use Aluminun For a reason I assume.

Great write up and mod BTW..

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The guy on the Malibu forums is using 3/8" HDPE for his blades and it's working just fine. I'm using 1/2" so mine is thicker. At least 2 of my bolts are on the swim platform backing plate. 2 are where there's extra hull material for the swim platform and the rest are near the corners where things would naturally be stronger.

We shall see...

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Originally Posted by uniwarking

Looks like you've got a good design started. I have similar concerns with the hull strength, material and 1/4" hardware. I really don't know how much force these see... I guess the wakeplate or trim tabs don't take a whole lot of support. I'm tuned in, good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Someone has to be the innovator and risk taker. I'm sure you all feel better knowing I'm doing it to my boat while you know yours are all safe and unmodified. Bottom line is that I am willing to push the envelope and I feel pretty optimistic about how it's going to pan out...

So, as Washington tends to do in the spring, it rained tonight off and on. And there were times where it was coming down heavy so I had to figure out something to allow me to work on my boat. So I moved my offset patio umbrella and it worked PERFECT.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-S...612_170532.jpg

Picking up where I left off last night, I took the blade that had the holes cut into it and made the lines for the channels. (the top actually needed another channel, but I fixed that later).
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3...612_175250.jpg

So I mounted everything up and sealed it all with 3m 4200 fast cure. That stuff is sticky but after my experience with the 5200 on my transom lights, I learned to be careful with it. Here's a pic of the inside of my hull. I made 10 new holes. some of them have the bolts going from the outside in, and some of them are going from the inside out.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-r...612_205752.jpg

So, I've got the Port side mostly done. I wanted to "learn" on that side since the goofy wake isn't that important to me. I have to trim down my hardware as they stick out about 1/2" past the nylock nuts. I guess better too long than too short. I used 1.5" fender washers on the bolts that form the posts for the channels of the blade. As you can see, I cut the top channel longer so it has more support.

Here is a pic of the blade retracted.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l...612_205540.jpg

Retracted side view. I am not liking those bolts sticking out. But it's late and my neighbors would HATE me if I fired up the compressor and busted out the air grinder!!!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-c...612_205635.jpg

Deployed. As you can see, the blade is sliding on the hardware, not directly on the baseplate. I'll add the knob later.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1...612_205554.jpg

Fully deployed from the front. Also, keep in mind that I designed it for 3" of full lateral excursion. I don't HAVE to use that much, it's fully adjustable. The excursion on the bottom is around 3/4".
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-P...612_205619.jpg

So, I moved on to the Starboard side. I have the lower baseplate cut out, and also the upper baseplate. I've got the back side of the blade cut out (where it goes around the swim platform bracket). I'll start drilling holes for the starboard side tomorrow...



Stay tuned...

Excited to see the progress. Thanks for the updates and looking forward to more!

Cleaned up the port side today. I took some length off the bolt that were sticking out and installed the knob. I also trimmed a little off the bottom of the blade and baseplates because they were sticking beneath the hull even with the blade retracted. It was because of the angle of the stern transom. easily remedied. I also added marks to easily tell each inch of lateral excursion on the blade.

Here's a revised Port side blade with the inch measurements:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-W...614_191530.jpg

I continued on the Starboard side and it certainly came out nicer. As planned, I learned from doing the one side and was able to make the more important side better. I relocated the channels a bit and just generally improved on all my mounting points.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x...4_120321-1.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-J...614_120337.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G...614_120350.jpg

Here is a pic that shows that the blade extends about 3/4" to 1" below the bottom of the hull. this was modeled after the NSS that does the same thing.

(this pic is before we cleaned up the edges and smoothed everything out)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3...614_120406.jpg

Also, I added lines to the Starboard side too. This one extends 3" out laterally. In this pic, the edges were cleaned up nicely and it's in it's finished configuration. Next step is to water test.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p...614_191513.jpg

i hope you do some water testing tomorrow

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Originally Posted by motosno963

i hope you do some water testing tomorrow

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I had hoped to get out on the water Sunday for Father's Day, but it rained. And again it's raining today. Stupid Pacific NW.

Hopefully I'll get out on the water on Wed or Thurs.

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Originally Posted by trayson

I had hoped to get out on the water Sunday for Father's Day, but it rained. And again it's raining today. Stupid Pacific NW.

Hopefully I'll get out on the water on Wed or Thurs.

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I am in town today. I'll fight the rain to be a third if you want to water test today. :)

Can't wait to see the results.

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Originally Posted by Boonejeepin

I am in town today. I'll fight the rain to be a third if you want to water test today. :)

Can't wait to see the results.

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While I'd love to have you along for a run on the Stormtrooper, I'm not going out on the boat today. I just hate fighting the wet.

I am certainly excited to see how it works. But not excited enough that I can't put it off until around Wed!

cant wait to see

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Originally Posted by motosno963

cant wait to see

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Probably going out on Thurday after work. Wednesday could work but I don't really have a crew aside from my 8 year old. :-)

I am off work all next week, so I'm sure I'll be getting some time in then.

Okay, went out for the first night of testing. Bottom line is that it works with some minor concessions. I can most certainly get a totally surfable wave with even weighting and my surf blades. The concessions so far is that it seems like I'm lacking a little bit of push. it's not a deal breaker, as I can certainly surf it. But it seemed noticeable to me.

BUT, the driveability of the boat is vastly improved. I was able to drop the speed at which the boat needed to go by a full MPH. The boat at rest is comfortable and we could have lunch on the boat without it being a listed PITA. We can sit at rest and have a barge go by and not get water over the trunk with the rollers. And we can switch from regular to goofy in 10 seconds flat.

Sorry for all the shots with the sun in your eyes. We tried to run upstream with all of them to be consistent.

Pretty much all these were done with the perfect pass set at 9.7 mph. we filled the 370 tube sack in the trunk. Then we pretty much filled a 750 and put it on the surf side on the floor beside the doghouse to start a bit listed and closer to "normal" (minus another 500 or so that we usually double stack with). So EVERYTHING has the 370 under the rear seat. In addition to that, I did the following configurations:


750 surf side no blade
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-J...618_193347.jpg

750 on the surf side with 3" blade deployment
This improved the look of the wave. Not dramatically but noticeable for sure.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7...618_193610.jpg

750 on surf side with 1" blade deployment
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v...618_193832.jpg

750's on both sides with no blades.
Is anyone surprised that this looks like crap? I didn't think so.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e...618_195636.jpg

So then we went on of course to deploy the gates with the boat equally weighted.
Again, sorry for the pic quality. I never thought about the sun.

3 inch blade deployment equal weighting
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7...618_200118.jpg

I believe that this is the 1" deployment with equal weighting. Not 100% sure though.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-h...618_200156.jpg

Goofy side with 3" blade deployment
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-g...618_200802.jpg

And finally a couple surf shots.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0...ular%25202.jpg
..
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O...ular%25201.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-h...oofy%25201.jpg
Russ thought it was a pretty decent wave on the goofy side. He didn't feel my "decrease in push" criticisms but it was also his first time on my boat... Sadly we had to cut his run short as the water in the gas made it so we couldn't continue to pull at surf speeds.

And here is a picture from 10 days ago with a slammed/listed boat with my 750's double stacked on the surf side and water running at the rub rail halfway up the hull while underway.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E...s95picture.jpg

Sadly our testing got cut short because the surf starboard side gate had the unfortunate side effect when deployed of shooting a little spray of water right at the gas tank breather vent. And I ended up with the old "water in the fuel" thing and my engine wasn't happy with me under load. I guess relocating that vent has just moved WAY up on my priority list.

In summary, I feel like these NSS style blades can get a surfable wave with an evenly weighted boat. It's very comparable to the quality of wave I'd get with listing my boat with my two 750's double stacked and the top one 1/2 to 3/4 full. What I did feel is that my wave seemed a little lacking in push compared to what I remember it being with a heavily listed boat. BUT, the usability and drive-ability and comfort of being in the boat is VASTLY improved even with 2 huge sacks taking up the floor. So I'll continue to refine it and dial things in and overall I'd call it a success.

Is it perfect? of course not. Does it make my direct drive have a wake comparable to a perfectly dialed in v-drive, no. But it's giving me more options and is certainly something that opens whole new doors of opportunity with my boat.

Why did you reduce the speed? Do you think that had anything to do with your lack of push?

'Tasty lookin wave brah'

It looks pretty sweet with sun shining through it from behind. Curious like Brain - was the speed decrease due to the SSS or maybe just the current from running upstream?

Trayson, I think you're on to something here. I'm going to keep following this as I find it fascinating. I wondered what the grooves would do-- didn't even think about the vent.

BTW-- the 1975 Houston Astros called and they want their trunks back.

I was thinking that the decrease in speed would heighten the wave out and give me more push. If speeding up lengthens the wave, logic told me that slowing down would heighten it...

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Originally Posted by trayson

I was thinking that the decrease in speed would heighten the wave out and give me more push. If speeding up lengthens the wave, logic told me that slowing down would heighten it...

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To a point it does the above.

When you slow down, you do get more push on the Transition, or front of the wave coming right out the back of the boat. If you slow down too much though you lose both push and length because you are not <eating> enough water under the boat. It just plows through it.

Most boats like 10mph, and then you adjust around .5 up. We tend to run at 11 and when you ran with us, Goofy was 10.5 and Reg was actually 11.5. This is due to weight in the boat.

Surfing is similar to wake boarding when weighting, the more weight, the faster you need to go to get it clean.

The other effect of speed when surfing is, Running a lot of weight at 10 you get a HUGE transition and TONS of power on the front of the wave, so you speed up to allow the boat to plane a little more and thus flattening out the transition section and this in turn pushes the power in the wave farther back.

It will also make the pocket longer in length, but shorter in height.

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Originally Posted by mmandley

To a point it does the above.

When you slow down, you do get more push on the Transition, or front of the wave coming right out the back of the boat. If you slow down too much though you lose both push and length because you are not <eating> enough water under the boat. It just plows through it.

Most boats like 10mph, and then you adjust around .5 up. We tend to run at 11 and when you ran with us, Goofy was 10.5 and Reg was actually 11.5. This is due to weight in the boat.

Surfing is similar to wake boarding when weighting, the more weight, the faster you need to go to get it clean.

The other effect of speed when surfing is, Running a lot of weight at 10 you get a HUGE transition and TONS of power on the front of the wave, so you speed up to allow the boat to plane a little more and thus flattening out the transition section and this in turn pushes the power in the wave farther back.

It will also make the pocket longer in length, but shorter in height.

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makes sense. lots to play with an experiment with, that's for sure.

So, I relocated my fuel breather and drained the 22 gallons out of my tank and changed my fuel filter. Filled with new gas and once the bad gas was out of the lines, we were good to go.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f...620_205957.jpg

Again, we filled the 370 tube sack under the rear seat and had the pair of 750's on either side of the doghouse. The boat sat mostly flat with a slight (couple inches) list to the port. We fine tuned with the placement of the rear seat spotter.

Bottom line is that I won't go back to listing. Today I had all the push I needed. I was riding my Ronix Caption 5'8 because just as we were leaving the dock my Koal illumanati dropped and cracked the tip of one of the tails and needs some fiberglass repair love.

I was able to ride way further back in the pocket. I was able to carve and shred the wave just fine. We were able to drop our surf speed from being in the 10 to 11 range down to being between 8.3 and 9 mph. The boat isn't working as hard and isn't slammed as much. We had some big rollers go by us and took no water over the stern. We have zero issues with dunking the nose either. With the ballast full, we can easily chill out and have lunch and be COMFORTABLE in the boat. Also, we can drive sitting down. It was bad enough before that I either sat on the top of the backrest of the chair, or just stood up to drive. Swapping from regular to goofy was literally a 10 to 20 second changeover.

Since we're not having to double stack bags, we were able to get 2 ballast pumps going at the same time to fill the 750's while my reversible impeller pump took care of the tube sack under the rear seat.

There is no adverse handling of the boat when going back to get the rider. If you turn against the blade, you kind of notice it but honestly it's not even something you notice unless you're looking for it. The boat comes out of the hole just fine and the wave is clean as soon as Perfect pass has you at surf speed.

We'll get some pics posted up but I would do this again in a heartbeat. Some of you might poo-poo what I've done, but the overall enjoyability of our boat just took a huge leap. I'm going to chalk this up as a success.

None of the pics are on my phone, so I only have a quick mirror shot.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...621_132601.jpg

I think you have used some great innovation and took a risk that not many would with your design, I for one would love to try surfing behind your boat this summer. I got plenty of time off so I don't mind the drive LOL.

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Originally Posted by mmandley

I think you have used some great innovation and took a risk that not many would with your design, I for one would love to try surfing behind your boat this summer. I got plenty of time off so I don't mind the drive LOL.

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Let's do it! I'm off all next week. But I don't think your sabatical starts by then.

Here are a couple better pics of the wave. Now, is it a wave that tops a $40k to $100k vdrive? Probably not. But for a 1992 direct drive, I'm pretty happy.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v...1%2520surf.jpg

This is only the 2nd time I've rode goofy. I'm a newb at it. And obviously regular is better on my boat. But FWIW, here's the goofy wave.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2...y%2520surf.jpg

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Originally Posted by trayson

Let's do it! I'm off all next week. But I don't think your sabatical starts by then.

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Pretty booked up.

Sunday
Wash Truck, Install the wireless speed control, retune my stereo for the new ZLD MKII I installed. Prep boat for Wake the World Portland Monday.

Monday Wake the World Portland

Tuesday Clean boat, from Monday. Remove all the gear.

Wednesday goto AWS have them replace my M O on my Starboard side because its peeling off when surfing.
Warranty the factory headunit, no display
Look at the wake plate again for going down on its own
Look at my RPM gauge because it gets stuck at 1K when the boat is doing 3K

Then pack for the Texas Jam Trip

Thursday Fly to Texas

Friday = My Birthday and Texas Party

Saturday More Texas Party

Sunday Fly home

Monday Spend the day on Hagg Lake
Tuesday Yard work, wash the Vette and pack for Lake Billy for 4th weekend

Wednesday work
Thursday show up at work but not really do anything but think about LBC weekend
Thursday Night drive up to 3 Rivers at LBC

Friday Saturday Sunday, take random pictures so I remember the weekend at LBC LOL

Monday, Tuesday Recover, and try to get with Millerdad to install his new Exile system LOL.

Sabbatical officially start July 19-Sept-18th

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Originally Posted by mmandley

Friday = My Birthday and Texas Party

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uhh ohh

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trayson, I would call that a success, way to go.